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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShapiro: "Hear me on this: he is no hero."
"But I have no tolerance, nor should anyone, for one man using an illegal ghost gun to murder someone because he thinks his opinion matters most. In a civil society, we are all less safe when ideologues engage in vigilante justice.
“In some dark corners, this killer is being hailed as a hero. Hear me on this: he is no hero.”
Answering follow-up questions from reporters, Shapiro added: “Violence can never be used to address political differences, or to address a substantive difference, or to try and prove some ideological point. That is not what we do in a civilized society.
“That was true in Butler, it was true in new york city, and it’s true anywhere. that is not how you make progress in this country.”
https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/crime/luigi-mangione-arrest-pennsylvania-reaction-health-insuranc-b2661599.html
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LearnedHand
(5,459 posts)Most people are NOT celebrating his death, so don't paint your entire audience with that brush. Way to miss the point completely.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)would be to deal with why SO MANY people aren't too broken up with this killing. Most people know walking up to someone and shooting them out of the blue is generally unacceptable and downright wrong, but..... and the "but" needs to be paid attention to.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,930 posts)Decrying violence now seems a little late, to me.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)
Hellbound Hellhound
(527 posts)I'm sorry, did homeboy ever read a book in his fucking life? Look at fucking slavery. Violence. Death. Bloodshed. The Civil Fucking War.
The ONLY reason we're not still using African Americans as outright slaves is because of violence.
The pandering to the billionaires is out of control.
Response to Hellbound Hellhound (Reply #3)
Post removed
LearnedHand
(5,459 posts)I'm guessing many of us in this country, repressed for decades by greedy corporations, billionaires, and politicians, are near a breaking point. Maybe the recent vote reflects the same thing, regardless of how asinine it seemed.
BattleRow
(2,426 posts)Stay tuned for da bone count down..
Celerity
(54,336 posts)
TheBlackAdder
(29,981 posts)You'll have a lot of seniors and disabled and ill with the little they have stripped away from them and nothing else to live for, except revenge.
Response to TheBlackAdder (Reply #4)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
MagickMuffin
(18,315 posts)And it hasn’t been for a very long time. Newt Gringrich and Ronald Reagan started this demonization of Americans, mostly aimed against the left. In fact they are still doing this.
Perhaps Mr. Shapiro should reflect on Jan 6, 2021. I didn’t witness much civility there.
Nope no longer civilized.
delisen
(7,354 posts)We are talking about who gets to live and who dies and who profits from the withholding of healthcare.
Too many well cared for politicians are living in a bubble.
cadoman
(1,617 posts)Instead of going after a guy who had reached the end of the line and done the only thing he could to change the system.
Baitball Blogger
(52,309 posts)I believe that Luigi Magione is a symptom of a society that is backsliding.
onecaliberal
(36,594 posts)Then they die. That’s what we do in a civil society.
The tone deafness… my fucking god.
Response to onecaliberal (Reply #9)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
BattleRow
(2,426 posts)Response to BattleRow (Reply #41)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to TheProle (Original post)
Chin music This message was self-deleted by its author.
TBF
(36,600 posts)
BeerBarrelPolka
(2,173 posts)And so far, quite a few people I voted for are not on my side, that's for sure.
Trenzalore
(2,575 posts)Someone needs to talk to the Pentagon
nycbos
(6,714 posts)... which I do not in any way condone, and not mourning the death of somebody who made his fortune, ensuring sick people denied medical care.
LeftInTX
(34,216 posts)Since I don't know either Mangione or the UHC CEO, I don't have a connection to either. I really can't mourn the dead guy and the shooter doesn't seem to have a whole lot of redeeming qualities.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Baron2024
(1,492 posts)And yet the Death Penalty is still legal in Pennsylvania. So it is OK in principle for the State to kill someone but not OK for a private citizen to kill someone in what may be arguably a form of self defense. I believe in peaceful politics but at a certain point the violence inherent in the system provokes some to act out in what might be considered a form of self defense.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Baron2024
(1,492 posts)The Continental Army used force and violence to overthrow the tyranny of the British. The Union Army used force to defeat the Confederates. The Allies used force to defeat the Nazis. I would prefer peace but in some cases oppression is so heavy it motivates people to act out when they have no other recourse. For-Profit Health Insurance is a racket and in some cases causes injury or death in the name of profits. Health care is a right, not a commercial product. When people are deprived of their rights in a way that threatens their life and health or the life and the health of their loved ones, there may be an argument for self defense. It may be no sin to use force against tyrants that threaten our rights to health and well being and the rights of our loved ones.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)as fighting it as comparable to "fighting the nazis"
If this is what DU has become, than we are no better than the MAGAs, if the consensus in this place is for advocating violence , I for one will not be part of that bullshit.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)It is fine if you don't want to take part in it, but this country is being taken over corporate criminals who kill people by denying them their Healthcare, which is a human right. These Corporatists are allied with MAGA Fascists and Far Right Christian Nationalists. These people are not playing softball and I do not think that principled pacifism is going to stop them. These people have already stated that they intend to mobilize the military to round up millions of people and put them in camps. Once that fascist project is rolling, do not expect them to stop. Trump and his MAGA Fascists have already hinted that they will arrest and try their political enemies, including members of the media and regular citizens. If anyone resists they can expect the police and the military to be mobilized to suppress them. Passive denial of these possibilities will not be any sort of defense. We are different from MAGA in that they are the ones instigating a fascist regime. We did not start this. We have a right to self defense. Violence is the illegal or unjustified use of force. Sometimes the use of force is justified. The use of force to defend against the implementation of a Fascist takeover may well be justified. The justified use of force in self defense against a violent fascist regime.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Which also begs the question, who did you vote for?
Because enough people refused to Harris, even though the choice has never been clearer.
Your rhetoric sure sounds like antifa. I wonder how many you will con.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Last edited Wed Dec 11, 2024, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)
I am not interested in burning anything down. I would love to see a peaceful solution to these problems. Part of the problem is we have an incoming Federal Administration that is fascistic. They are the ones threatening to burn everything down. I am proposing self defense as a last resort. Hopefully there will be peaceful political solutions to these conflicts and problems. I am skeptical though.
I am not interested in "conning" anyone. I am just speaking the truth as I know it. Your views may differ. People can read my posts and judge for themselves. I am not antifa but I am anti-fascist. They are not necessarily the same thing. I believe in a mixed economy with both a healthy private sector and a strong safety net and a good public sector. Most antifa are strictly anti-capitalist. I am not. I am against corporate corruption though, and there is a lot of it. Part of the solution is good government that checks corporate power. With this incoming administration, the corporate fat cats and billionaires are now explicitly running the show. So we are going to be at the mercy of these MAGA Fascists and the corrupt Corporatists for at least a while. I am proposing self defense and political resistance.
In regards to the original issue- Health Insurance should not be a private business. Health care is a right, not a privilege or a commodity to be used as a profit center. We need Medicare for All. Tens of thousands of people die every year explicitly because they have no health insurance. These are real human beings suffering and dying because our politicians oppose basic Health Care and propose profiteering off of people's suffering. These deaths are criminal. People die and their families suffer.
God knows how many die every year because their Private Health Insurance will not cover necessary and life saving treatments. The people who run these operations are white collar criminals. People are literally dying for lack of health care in this country. Why are these criminals allowed to get away with killing people? Because too many people in this country worship the dollar and do not care about their fellow human beings.
If there were a political solution like Medicare for All there would be less incentives for extremists like Mangione to take the matter in their own hands. White collar criminals are literally getting away with murder and profiting off of the killings. Why are they permitted to kill innocent people? What should be done about it?
As far as the Tiller case goes- I would appreciate it if you did not put words in my mouth. That is a Straw Man Argument, a basic failure of logic- misrepresent your opponent's position and then refute the misrepresentation.
Also, I voted for Kamala Harris. Who would you expect me to vote for? This site is strictly for Democrats, Liberals, and the people that support them. I consider myself a Progressive. I find your response to me to be rather disingenuous.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)I think a better example of twisted thinking is a corporate millionaire making money off of people's health insurance premiums and then denying them the coverage that they have paid for. People are dying in this system and other people are profiting off of their deaths. That is some real twisted thinking.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)In case you did not notice, we are actually fighting the new Nazis. The new American term for Nazi is MAGA. MAGA Fascists are planning to round millions of people up and will put them in deportation camps. That is some Nazi and Fascist behavior. If they get away with that, they will not stop. They have already made it clear that they intend to turn the military and the police against any American citizens that disagree with them or oppose them, including media figures, politicians, and normal citizens. These MAGA People are the new American Nazis. Appeasing them will not work. We must oppose them and resist them with every tool available to us. Meek pacifism unfortunately will not work.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)Baron2024
(1,492 posts)If your position is too weak and you have to retreat rather than engage in a real discussion, that is fine. I prefer vigorous and healthy discussion. If you are not up for it, that is on you, not me. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. I suspect that you might need it.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,571 posts)Baron2024
(1,492 posts)My point is that people are being driven to extreme behaviors because they are made desperate by a system which profits off of their suffering and death. Maybe if we had Medicare for All there would be less incentive for extreme behaviors like Mangione's. People's health and lives are being threatened by a corrupt system. When people's lives are threatened, they may act out in some way as a form of self defense. When I say self defense, I mean self defense against a system that is criminal and corrupt. I am not endorsing Mangione's behavior. I am trying to explain it. When a person's life and health are threatened by a corrupt system, we should not be surprised when such a person lashes out rather than suffering in silence.
beaglelover
(4,465 posts)BeerBarrelPolka
(2,173 posts)There are cases where it is indeed self defense however.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Profiting off of the deaths of innocent people is criminal. Admittedly Mangione's act was extreme, but people are dying from the lack of health care in this country. You have people like this CEO that are making obscene multi-million dollar salaries off of the suffering and deaths of people. Health care should be a right, not a source of profits for corporatists. Tens of thousands of people die in this country every year due to lack of health insurance. God knows how many die because their treatment is denied by Private For-Profit Health Insurance Companies like the one in this case. This should be considered a form of white collar crime. Maybe if this sort of corporate corruption was illegal there would be less incentive for extremists like Mangione to act out and commit a crime.
lapucelle
(21,052 posts)
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)We still don't fully know what Mangione's motive was. When I talk about self defense, I mean defense against a corrupt system that profits off of denying sick and dying people urgent medical care. The For Profit Health Insurance industry is corrupt and profits off of the suffering and death of human beings. I suspect that something like that motivated Mangione to take an extreme action. So I condemn his action, but I think that I might understand his motivation.
Health Care is a right and should not be used as a profit center for corporatists. Literally tens of thousands of people suffer and die every year due to a lack of health care coverage. The number that die due to denials by private insurers is unknown. So now we hear about this murder but why do we not hear of the tens of thousands that die every year due to a lack of coverage? This is a white washed mass murder. And it continues.
Am I sorry that the CEO was killed? Yes. But I understand that some people might be upset about the tens of thousands of people that die every year due to a lack of health insurance coverage. Why is that not in the news? Why are we not upset over all of those people dying and the suffering of their loved ones? Can you answer me that?
lapucelle
(21,052 posts) Baron2024
(1,492 posts)I wonder how many people have died because Private Health Insurance companies have denied them treatment? Tens of thousands die every year due to a lack of Health Insurance. That is an established fact. So I am sorry that the CEO is dead, but what about all of the people being killed by an unjust "private health insurance" industry. Where is the outrage for those that have died? When I say self defense, I mean self defense against a corrupt and immoral system that kills people for profit.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Link to tweet
?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1865551595078894070%7Ctwgr%5Ed7395943a67f83b452fab1a5f266af9163a351d2%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.democraticunderground.com%2F100219813026
lapucelle
(21,052 posts)He was stalked, shot in the back, and left to die on the street.
There is no justifiable "but" that follows.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)This CEO may have been targeted because he ran an operation that made vast sums of money by denying medical care to people that urgently needed it. It is an established fact that tens of thousands of people die every year in this country because they have no health insurance. It is unknown how many people die because a private health care company refuses to cover their treatment. I imagine that it might be a large number of people. How many people has this company killed with its policy of denial?
Presiding over a company that makes vast amounts of money by denying people crucial and life saving medical care should be illegal. It might be legal right now, but it is certainly unjust. When people are suffering and dying and they have no legal recourse or power against a large and corrupt corporation they might become desperate and act out in some way. Perhaps even with violence such as Mangione did.
It is unknown right now what exactly Mangione's motive was but it might be related to those sorts of issues. When a system or a company threatens someone's life or the life of their loved ones, maybe we should not be surprised that someone lashes out and takes an extreme action. This does not justify Mangione's action but it might explain it.
The underlying point is that for profit private health insurance is not a morally tenable operation. A system where companies take in millions in premiums and then deny necessary or urgent health care should not exist. This creates an incentive to deny claims to make money, and people may well suffer and die as a result.
Health care should be a right, not a private for profit business. If we had Medicare for All maybe none of this would have happened in the first place. If the policies of a private health insurance company cause suffering and death, maybe it is not surprising if someone who is a victim of that corrupt system lashes out. This is a system that threatens people's lives. When someone's life is threatened they might feel compelled to act out.
How many people has this company killed with its policy of denial?
Skittles
(171,638 posts)it's what PSYCHO KILLER COWARD DO
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)A good article that exposes corruption and fraud in United Healthcare Private Insurance from a company insider.
https://polinews.org/apparent-employee-of-united-healthcare-shares-her-experience-working-for-ceo-brian-thompson-in-medicare-department/?
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)This is a brief and older article that shows data on the number of deaths due to a lack of health insurance. I am looking for more current data but have not turned up any of it yet with a quick search. I would imagine that the number of people dying from a lack of health insurance coverage may remain high. In this article it was tens of thousands. So a pretty large number.
https://www.citizen.org/news/nobody-should-die-because-they-cant-afford-health-care/
I don't believe in the death penalty, however that 'person on death row' was arrested and received a trial by jury with a defensive attorney at their side.
No private citizen has the right to declare themselves the judge, jury and EXECUTIONER!
Self defense! TF!? That was cold blooded murder.
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)Tens of thousands of people die every year from a direct lack of health insurance. The number that die because their treatment is denied by a private health insurance company is unknown. Where is the outrage for the tens of thousands that die every year?
sheshe2
(97,506 posts)However you did not respond to what I posted.
You said the shooter was just acting in 'self defense.
.........................................................
Where is your outrage for school shootings!
Sandy Hook:
26 people were slaughtered, 20 of them were first graders. This year that class graduated without their classmates.
Uvalde:
19 children slaughtered in an Elementary school as armed police when 400 armed law enforcement officers stood outside for an hour because they feared for their life!
Baron2024
(1,492 posts)When I say self defense, I mean self defense against a corrupt system that routinely denies treatment and cause mayhem, suffering and death. It is self defense against a system that is literally killing people.
I have plenty of outrage over school shootings. It is a complete Straw Man argument to imply my position somehow means I am not outraged over school shootings. These two cases are not the same thing, and it is a cheap shot and a logical fallacy to equate the two. It is intellectually dishonest and frankly insulting.
That CEO presided over a company that made vast sums of money, many millions, over denying medical treatment for people. He oversaw a company with policies that have been denying health care and causing suffering and death.
As CEO of that company he is personally responsible for anyone that has died because their medical care was not approved. This is not an innocent child. This is a grown man who is complicit in the deaths of anyone that died because his company and his policies denied medical care to those that needed it. How many people has this company killed with its policy of denial? This CEO was not innocent.
Ford_Prefect
(8,606 posts)And recruiting in anticipation of the great scouring of libs, gays, and Dems, once the Mango Menace gives them the word.
Klarkashton
(5,280 posts)We live in a country where the cops have "qualified" immunity, and convicted felon president who boasted about shooting someone on 5th Ave.
As long as it's a nobody getting snuffed it's thoughts and prayers, otherwise if it's a rich guy we get these goddamn sermons.
kairos12
(13,574 posts)Cadillac, gold plated HS.
So, Shapiro go fuck yourself dude. BTW, if you injure yourself, it’s no doubt covered.
Buzz cook
(2,896 posts)Selective in his outrage. Strangling a black person with a mental disorder good. Shooting a CEO for whatever reason bad. BLM protests bad, Jan. 6th good.
TheProle
(3,980 posts)Buzz cook
(2,896 posts)Sorry for the confusion.
Prairie Gates
(8,108 posts)Well played, and that tells you something!
Response to TheProle (Reply #24)
JohnSJ This message was self-deleted by its author.
jimfields33
(19,382 posts)
OldBaldy1701E
(11,089 posts)Nope. In a civilized society, one rigs everything so that only those who worship the powerful can survive. Not thrive, just survive. They may think they are thriving, but they have no clue just how little they are being rewarded for making a few people obscenely rich. Then, those who the establishment does not like will just wither away and die in poverty and sickness. Slowly. Painfully.
But, we don't use violence to address political differences.
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. 
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)OldBaldy1701E
(11,089 posts)That image is from the latest example. Maybe I should have chosen an old newspaper drawing from 1898?
av8rdave
(10,656 posts)And yeah, I get it. Murder is wrong, as is vigilante justice.
OTOH, how much sleep do any of us lose when a mafia don is whacked?
Personally, none.
AkFemDem
(2,508 posts)He's addressing the issue of a murderer caught in his state that killed an insurance CEO, not Jan 6. Are you suggesting Governor Shapiro never condemned January 6th political violence?? where have you been the last 4 years?
MustLoveBeagles
(16,267 posts)
angrychair
(12,257 posts)Last edited Tue Dec 10, 2024, 10:52 PM - Edit history (1)
It was this statement from Shapiro that was my inspiration for my OP. I read these comments and I about popped with righteous fury.
The arrogance and privilege of this statement in particular:
I once truly believed that with all my heart. I was all in on the possibilities and hope in America. I want a world where this is true. I want it so desperately I can taste it. I dream about.
The problem with that line from Shapiro is that it completely ignores reality. History has shown us that, repeatedly, that violence has been used by a disaffected population to redress its grievances.
It's literally the core message in the Declaration of Independence. But Jefferson goes much further. He states in the Declaration that it is the duty of citizens to do this when the call is so extreme and all other avenues of reasoning it have been tried.
Jefferson and Franklin say here:
To be clear I am not saying anyone should do violence against anyone. What I am saying is that a nation that values oligarchs and power more than it's people is a nation built on a foundation of matchsticks waiting for a spark.
We are desperate for the rhetorical prose of those leaders we have listened to for decades to have as much meaningful intent as it does heartfelt hope that made us believe in that better future.
Because if those words were just a walk through the garden then people will look for leaders in which their actions will follow their words. That isn't necessarily good for anyone.
Emile
(42,205 posts)or is he on the side of healthcare for profit?
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)And frankly it's weird that people here are upset about it.
Emile
(42,205 posts)viewing them as heroes who stole from the corrupt system.
I still haven't found where Shapiro stands on Single-Payer vs Healthcare for Profit.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)As long as it's against "them".
Got it.
Emile
(42,205 posts)
WarGamer
(18,603 posts)3825-87867
(1,935 posts)a prosecutor, gets the trial date set quickly and Luigi goes to jail?
Before Jan 20th?
By Feb 1st?
or by Dec 2027?
Autumn
(48,952 posts)Aussie105
(7,902 posts)the use of deadly violence can appear to become a viable resolution.
Smells of desperation; not seeking hero status.
But you got to hand it to people like Shapiro, this is just a spin on the 'Think of the Children' lament.
But these are not innocent children gunned down by the numbers, these are CEOs of corrupt businesses.
No, I do not condone what happened.
But I do understand it.
As always - be wary of crocodile tears and those who tell you what to think and what to feel.
Autumn
(48,952 posts)Maybe you politicians should understand the anger Americans are feeling. We have tried voting, we have protested, we have called and written letters, we have begged and shared our healthcare nightmare stories with you. What have any of those thing done?
Cha
(318,900 posts)I want no part of it.
I feel a little disoriented here. Months ago he was a fave for VP and now this?
Cha
(318,900 posts)is a Good guy & Gov... he doesn't deserve this. 
Mahalo Lulu.. 
Ilikepurple
(658 posts)I may have missed a reply or two or they got taken down? Gov. Shapiro is an adult and a politician. I’m sure he can handle someone disagreeing with him. I’m not even saying he’s wrong here, but the response to the murder is phenomenon to be explained in a not so facile fashion.
Cha
(318,900 posts)Aussie105
(7,902 posts)"In my opinion" or "You may not agree with me."
Without those conditionals, it just becomes someone telling you what to think, what to feel, and how you should react.
But if Shapiro was a good guy yesterday so you don't want him to be criticised today, feel free.
AkFemDem
(2,508 posts)Since the election it's been a free-fall into Democrat bashing, be it Kamala, Fetterman, Shapiro, Pelosi, the President himself.... folks here bashing democrats harder than they're criticizing republicans.
Response to TheProle (Original post)
Post removed
orleans
(36,896 posts)isn't that the place where the basement keyboard trumpists and steve bannon and the Q gods and the gun nuts and the vigilante freaks hang out/lurk?
mcar
(46,022 posts)Aussie105
(7,902 posts)"In my opinion, Gov. Shapiro is correct."
mcar
(46,022 posts)Don't need your editing help, thanks all the same.
Patton French
(1,824 posts)Oh, what could have been....
Cha
(318,900 posts)
flying_wahini
(8,274 posts)
Historic NY
(40,010 posts)HS Tuition 37k a semester / So I'm sure he had the best of care
Xolodno
(7,349 posts)....history has shown that cold blooded murderers get released during revolts and sometimes become leaders. Sometimes its for the better, most of the time for the worst. And either way, they are considered hero's, go figure.
Both my wife and I are products of exiles and when a felon can get elected, we take notice. No empire lasts forever.
Skittles
(171,638 posts)I never thought I'd see the day when so-called progressives were happy about GUN VIOLENCE and VIGILANTISM....do they approve of shooting abortion doctors too? WHAT THE FUCK.
Karasu
(2,003 posts)Doesn't get much more fucking mainstream than FB and IG.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)As for me I will be spending less and less time here because if the consensus in this place is for advocating violence , I for one will not be part of that bullshit.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)why this incident has created the response it did. Far more interesting in the long run.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)maxrandb
(17,418 posts)That FUCKING lie died on January 6, 2021, and America dug that FUCKING lie up out of its grave on November 5, 2024 just to kill it again and salt the fucking ground.
Initech
(108,700 posts)See: United States, 1861 - 1865. 
ThePartyThatListens
(340 posts)Not me.
TheProle
(3,980 posts)Not you.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)But I won’t lose a wink of sleep that the greedy asshole is currently taking a dirt nap.
B.See
(8,443 posts)there are "dark corners" aplenty in America.
Hell, in some dark corners, nearly half of the electorate turned out to empower an adjudicated rapist and convicted felon who lied to America about a deadly pandemic, incited an armed insurrection to overthrow the results of a free and fair election, and promised to be a dictator, from day ONE.
A Hitler praising 'patriot' who accused immigrants of eating the cats and the dogs, and poisoning the blood.
In some dark corners, they are planning on replacing government employees with loyalists and sycophants, militarizing the police, deploying the military against Americans, and building concentration camps.
In some dark corners they are working to trash Social security, Medicare, and yes, HEALTHCARE.
Working to undermine consumer protections, and offering billion dollar promises (correction... BRIBES) to industry and corporations to TRASH all regulations.
In some dark corners, they are covering up the increases in female deaths due to denied emergency prenatal care, planning on wiping out Medicaid,
and privatizing education, replacing public schools with schools teaching fundamental Christian based, right winged ideology, all funded at taxpayer's expense.
In some dark corners, they've sought to criminalize homelessness and have refused free lunch programs for CHILDREN.
Dark corners aplenty.
Just_Vote_Dem
(3,639 posts)From MASH:
Happy Hoosier
(9,531 posts)Not advocating for murder, but denying people life-saving care and profiting off their pain and financial ruin has the predictable result of making people really pissed off at you.
mvd
(65,911 posts)But I hope it does bring to people’s attention how bad things have gotten in some people’s lives because of the denials and delays. A shame it would take this.
Autumn
(48,952 posts)