Clyburn is wrong.

[EndlessWire]

I believe Biden should NOT pardon Trump. It sends the wrong message. While I believe that forgiveness is essential for the person doing the forgiving, I do not believe that a criminal the stature of Trump should get anything but a jail cell.

I was a person involved with national security during my Army days. I was a very small cog in the process, yet I went through all the requirements and received a Top Secret--Crypto clearance. I am beyond furious that Trump has been allowed to get away with what amounts to stealing our nation's biggest secrets, endangering an unknown amount of friendly operatives, and then lying about it to escape the consequences. Goodness knows what he was doing with the documents, but we can guess. If you or I had done that, we'd be serving twenty years this very day.

Pardoning Trump will NOT heal the nation. Speaking only for myself, I feel that I will forever be suspicious of magaty people and repubs. Pardoning tRump would only serve to make me feel that a terrible injustice has been done, and further reaffirm what I feel about two levels of justice being served up to the nation.

We are right now in the middle of a destruction of our country. It's like an aggressive cancer, and it's spreading. You can't say, "Kumbaya," forgive and forget, right when we might be truly facing Civil War 2. And, would you pardon, say, Hitler, in an attempt to heal a nation? No, you'd get rid of that person as soon as you could. I'd like to see ALL of the traitorous part of the Congress locked up. I'm not in the mood for watching that dyed blonde POS tRump walking around free, and continuing to rant on about how awful our country is, and how Dems did this or that.

It's amazing what we've been through. I never thought I'd live to see the day when the richest man in the world is seeking to impose austerity on those that can ill afford to misspend even one red cent. One person, not even elected by Magats. I don't know about you, but every time Musk opens his mouth, I'd like to punch Donald in the face. I do NOT want to see Donald given a pass for insurrection. I know what I saw. He needs to be in jail. I'll settle for exile, or six feet under, as long as it's natural. But, a PARDON? C'mon, that's unreal.

[Think. Again.]

1. K&R

[Docreed2003]

2. K&R

100% agree

[Irish_Dem]

3. Giving a ruthless, dangerous psychopath more power is very dangerous.

It will embolden them and make their crimes worse and more numerous.

I wish people would do their homework and learn about psychopaths and their behavior.

Before they spout out dangerous ideas about how to handle them.

[speak easy]

62. "Giving a ruthless, dangerous psychopath more power"

Too late SCOTUS cried,

Trump V. United States (2024)

and waved their wooden heads.

What are pardons for crimes that are no longer crimes?

[Felicita]

67. Write to the White House

I just did, urging President Biden NOT to pardon the criminal. Hopefully, million's of others will, too.

[republianmushroom]

4. Agree, prison for trump

46 months and counting

[Silent Type]

5. I know one thing, 3 years of trying to put trump in jail didn't gain us any votes. In fact,

one can make a case it cost us votes. Every time trump got charged and tried, his approval rating went up.

I respect Clyburn, Biden likely would not have beed elected without him. I don’t mind discussions.

[W_HAMILTON]

13. False.

(Liz Cheney)

And one could just as easily argue -- probably more so, in fact -- that our justice system treating Trump with kid gloves for four years is what cost us the election.

[rampartd]

14. biden, garland, and wray proved that we are feckless and ineffective

they proved that we are "soft on crime."

[KPN]

29. We is who?

[Silent Type]

22. Personally, Pence should have ordered a firing squad midnight Jan 6th. I don't think anyone would have said

a thing. GOPers in Congress were mad as hell, of course that changed within weeks.

Supremes were ticked to and would have called it an “official act.”

[ECL213]

59. Here, here!!

If that motherf&^ker had been sitting in a jail cell like he should have been, I guarantee he would not have been nominated or elected.

If you want the shitweasel to have a pardon, he can give one to himself after he's sworn in. At least that way we're not complicit.

F&^k that f&^king f&^k!!

[krkaufman]

21. I'm going to stick with doing what's right, avoiding doing what's wrong

... and not worry about speculating how it might affect the vote of idiots.

[Wingus Dingus]

46. Who thought it would gain votes? I didn't. It was still the right thing to do.

He's not above the law.

[Silent Type]

47. Do what? He walked. He beat us.

[Wingus Dingus]

48. Do you only do the right thing when you're sure to gain some material benefit?

I hope not.

[Silent Type]

49. You win, I support eating/bashing/shunning Clyburn, Fetterman, Shapiro, etc.

[Lulu KC]

70. Wait--what did Shapiro do?

I must have missed that one.

[Conjuay]

58. On a brighter note...

The Grim Reaper is very democratic.
Sooner or later...

[Silent Type]

63. +1. Many of us will spend the next four years -- when BREAKING NEW starts flashing -- hoping this is the big one.

[BOSSHOG]

6. What harm will come to trump if he is not pardoned?

NONE. WHATSOEVER. The potential to be held legitimately to account and punished for wrongdoing is not HARM its justice. And trump wants nothing to do with Justice. Nothing to do with fairness. Nothing to do with integrity. That’s the anthem of the Republican Party. No Justice for us. For Gods Sake No Justice for us.

[Callie1979]

76. Exactly. NONE. Even after he leaves office he'll drag out whatever anyone does

[Meowmee]

7. Yes it is really twilight zone worthy

I can't believe anyone is even suggesting this to be honest. I already stopped funding d a long time ago except for candidates I like. But this will be a bridge too far for me, to say the least. It will prove to me they have no courage to fight this at all. In my opinion this is lunacy and is the worst possible thing that could be done regarding this.

[Mad_Machine76]

8. Agreed

I was aghast when I heard him talk about Biden pardoning Trump. Trump and others have already greased the wheels for him to escape accountability. Neither Biden nor anybody else should lend him a hand too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

9. +1

[Timewas]

10. IMHO

It would be the biggest single mistake made by any politician anywhere any time. And would end any respect he has earned. (at least from me)

[CanonRay]

11. If he had actually been punished, then you can make a case for clemency

But this way? Big no.

[Trueblue1968]

31. I agree. He does not deserve a pardon.

[Crunchy Frog]

12. I feel that pardoning him would send a signal of weakness and submission

on the part of the Democratic Party, and would contribute to the narrative that Dump did nothing wrong. It is genuinely the worst possible signal they could send.

It would also serve to alienate a lot of people, myself included. It would likely set the Dems up to be a permanent minority party, there to give the illusion of democracy when there is none. There to go along to get along, maintaining their comfortable positions while the country goes to shit.

This would not be an acceptable move for the party.

He doesn't even need to be pardoned as he is at no risk whatsoever of ever facing any consequences. It would do nothing but give him and his actions a degree of unearned legitimacy

[lostnfound]

25. It would alienate me as well. No more interest after that, just give up stage.

[AverageOldGuy]

15. Maybe . . .

. . . Clyburn's generation needs to move along and get out of the way.

[whathehell]

79. I think it's personal, not generational...

The majority of DUers self identify as part of Clyburn's generation, and, if this board is any indication, most of us do NOT want him pardoned, especially not by Joe.

[poli-junkie]

16. It's fuckin' Lucy and the football routine!

Wake the fuck up Dems!!!

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. Ford pardoning Nixon lead to tRump. . . . . nt

[SCantiGOP]

24. I was dead wrong

I thought it was probably for the best that Ford pardoned Nixon.
But if Nixon had been indicted and convicted, most of Trump’s defiant and illegal actions might never have happened, or he might have been held accountable.

[DallasNE]

42. Of Course It Did

And repeating a mistake means it will create a tightening spiral until the chain is broken.

[Jarqui]

18. Trump is a criminal

4 grand juries concluded Trump probably committed the crimes he was indicted for
The federal conviction rate for an indicted person is over 90%

No one should be above the law.

You can pardon for a miscarriage of justice - like Hunter got pardoned for.

You can't use the election because Elon Musk blew $250 mil and the rest of the oligarchs who controlled the media made sure Americans did not get the full accurate facts about Trump before they went to the polls.

You don't pardon someone like that.

You cannot rely on an election outcome obtained the way this one was: with massive deception.

[vapor2]

19. Totally agree

Pardoning trump would send the message that his crimes are 100% acceptable. AND he will continue to be lawless and continue to grift for the next 4 years.

[KT2000]

20. If he was pardoned

he would spend the next week bellowing how weak Biden is as well as all Democrats. He would also make up a reason it was done, such as it was all made up and they didn't want to get caught.

He is a psychopath and should not be trusted with kindness or anything actually.

I remember when he bought a casino from Merv Griffen. Griffen was ill and at the end of his life but that did not stop trump of bragging about screwing Griffen over on the price.

[Silent Type]

23. Can Biden do a conditional pardon? "I hereby pardon the MFing POS on condition he passes Democratic

legislation on healthcare, childcare, gives citizenship to everyone, climate, SS, etc.”

We’d probably have to pick only a couple of those, but still

[Felicita]

66. You would trust the liar?

He would NOT keep his end of the bargain if "conditionally pardoned".
He does not deserve or need to be pardoned in any way, shape or form.
But I respect your idea to try to do something to move the country in a more progressive direction.

[Silent Type]

68. Agree, but if he volates the conditions the Pardon would be rescinded.

[djacq]

26. Brian Tyler Cohen says it best;

2:00 minute; "Absolutly Fucking Cowardly Horseshit"

[SamKnause]

52. This was excellent explanation of how I feel and an awesome recap.

Please make a post of this on its own.

I think many will enjoy it.

Thanks for posting.

[dlk]

27. Pardoning Trump is the worst idea I've ever heard

It sends a signal that the desecration of our capitol, the assault on police officers, and on our government was somehow justified.

It would give the nudge, nudge, wink, wink to fascism.

Worst idea ever!!!

PS - appeasement NEVER works!

[onecaliberal]

28. He SOLD our secrets to Putin. Why the fuck are these people talking about

[UTUSN]

30. K&R

[BurnDoubt]

32. "Zero Tolerance"

Remember when that was a thing? I'm in 100% agreement with anyone who says these were CRIMES and those involved should be serving grievous time, long time, miserable time. The sentences meted out were less onerous than detention, and some convicted were openly arrogant at having slid-by with a slap on the wrist and augmented street-cred for being SEDITIONISTS!--- "You in a heap of trouble, there boy. We'll deal with you after the coup!"--- Without an independent Judiciary we are Fucked. Oligarchy Crime is un-prosecutable under our Constitution as long as the Right Wing can buy the Judiciary. They don't see us.

[jalan48]

33. What's in it for Clyburn?

[JHB]

34. I guess I'm behind enough to not even have heard this, but I can't even fathom the "logic" behind it

Is Trump innocent of the many things he's been accused of? FUCK NO!

So why even suggest a pardon? What kind of donor money has Clyburn been smoking to even suggest this?

[FHRRK]

35. Pardon the mother Fucker

And I will Never vote for a Dem again!

Done with this lame ass bullshit, any Dem stating he should be pardoned has lost my vote! The leader of the Party folds then the entire party has folded!

FFS, I can’t even believe it is being discussed.

[electric_blue68]

40. Really? IF we get to genuinely vote again. You Do want our Democracy as Imperfect as it is back, don't you?

[FHRRK]

43. Really!

Trying to shame me into voting for those who refuse to fight!


The mother fucking Repukes tried to take away my vote on J6!

I sure as hell ain’t voting for any person who refuses to hold them responsible, Especially if Trump is pardoned.

I know my enemy.

[electric_blue68]

45. They tried to take My vote Away, too! What, then. Keep voting, or letting Repugs win by not voting? Things are like...

nightmarish "funhouse mirrors" right now. With probably worse to come! I do believe, though, there will be a few at least brave Democrats. And keeping Dems in office, just might give us more brave Dems at some point.

Can you totally blame them if until drumphf (and not since Nixon) your Congressional Life rarely IF Ever had the threat of prison on your bingo card? And in add some gun humping Magats into the mix out there.

[Hope22]

36. Pardoning Nixon was the undoing of the country.

I doubt letting T slide is going to help things!

[GreenWave]

80. Also letting Hitler's allies in the USA get away with it.

[Hope22]

81. True!

And the scientists? Probably!

[LittleGirl]

37. I do not agree with Clyburn.

Let 45 try to pardon himself next year. Let’s see how that goes over.
Pardon Reality Winner! She served nearly 5 years in prison for one effing document! 45 took thousands of government documents! Where’s is that legal? Only in maga land.

[electric_blue68]

38. I respect Clyburn, and he's Wrong on This Issue!...

Drumphf is a traitor inciting violence against the legitimate Election of Biden in 2020, against the Capitol Police, The Congresspeople, their staff, the Capitol staff, etc. Taking X hours to tell the people to leave, while looking like he was enjoying himself watching the terrible actions on TV.

As Endless Wire said we. all. saw. it. as it happened, or in later You Tube videos, or the Congressional Hearings replays! 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

He needs to be punished in some form, or fashion; not pardened! No way in Hell will this effin' "heal" the country!!! Are you kidding!

He's a scourge now agsinst (however imperfect!) Our Democracy, as the storm clouds of Authoritarianism ride in his wake!

( I've been doing my best to keep my worst anxiety at bay. Doing mostly well, but I expect emotional problems at times once J20 Noon happens.
Otoh, my anger comes, and goes as I read various things happening since the Election. Luckily I have a lot of interests to divert me from anxiety, or anger. But focusing on it here, now...
And, boy, I'm typing this and getting mad. Sort of "yelling" inside my mind. He's just. so. hideous. In so many ways. And he's going to be pResident... again!!!!! Gah! ) 😔

Will go stream some TV soon.

[Hope22]

39. Why does he need a pardon with presidential immunity? Nt

[generalbetrayus]

41. Clyburn is 84 years old.

Maybe he and other older Dems suggesting that Biden pardon tRump are trying to avoid having Kash Patel put them in jail for annoying the incoming dick-tator.

[True Blue American]

55. I have been catching up

On the Internet, checking my manyinformative emails and it is clear young Democrats who are working hard to change things in Congress.

I am amazed at how many came in as media darlings are now working hard to improve things. None of them watch the tired, biased old media. They get their news from fresh sources utthey also use their brilliant, progressive mind#.

Clayburn has old, go along to get along ideas.

I may be old, but it is really refreshing to me to watch a new generation take over. We only need 2 Houseseates to take control. Itwas time for Chuck and Mitch to let go. We have young ones to take their place.

[bmichaelh]

44. Trump has no mercy

Nothing would be achieved by pardoning Trump.

Trump would not act nice if it happened.

Hillary Clinton attended his previous Presidential inauguration.

But Trump directed his DOJ to find ways to prosecute her, even though she did nothing wrong.

https://apnews.com/article/060ca2399a744b4a9554dbd2ec276a90

From Shakespeare:

MENENIUS
There is no more
mercy in him than there is milk in a male tiger.
--Shakespeare, Coriolanus 5.4.28-29

Some people should realize you should not indulge a sociopath.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

50. Pardon the head insurrectionist, classified documents thief,

US Constitution shredder, etc? No!!!

[SamKnause]

51. You are correct, Clyburn is wrong, very wrong.

If he thinks this will unite the country, he is wrong.

If he thinks this will restore trust in the rule of law, he is wrong.

If he thinks the norms being overlooked time and time again will stop, he is wrong.

There is absolutely no reason for President Biden to pardon the man destroying this country.

[Meowmee]

53. well said

[Mike Nelson]

54. Also...

... the time to consider a pardon for Trump is wrong. Ford was a "profile in courage" for pardoning Nixon (in hindsight, an error), but that was when he was finished. The time to pardon Trump would have been following an impeachment and removal from office (which is forever). You don't reward Bonnie & Clyde by giving them bigger guns and free passes to the banks.

[BeyondGeography]

56. He actually used the verb "targeted"

to describe the cases against Trump and his henchmen.

He has lost his damn mind.

[bdamomma]

57. Thank you

EndlessWire for post and service. I think many of us feel the same way, I still believe the election was tampered with, but we must move on. We have an evil POS felon in office, our court system let us down, and we have greedy billionaires and millionaires who want to steal from us and feel that they are entitled to that wealth. I absolutely hate it.

But one thing I hold onto is that they will receive the wrath on them that they have put on us. They are our domestic terrorists. I really hope they choke on that greed and power.

[Clouds Passing]

60. I heard someone say on the Thom Hartmann show that Clyburn made a deal

with the SC Republicans to hang onto his seat.

[Wounded Bear]

61. trump is the fallout for pardoning Nixon. Pardoning trump just furthers the injustice of it...nt

[Martin68]

64. No way should Biden pardon Trump. That is an insane suggestion.

[Felicita]

65. Well said!

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Progressive dog]

69. No pardon, that is not justice

[Lulu KC]

71. Serious question

Is there anyone here who actually thinks that Biden will pardon Trump? I have faith that he also disagrees with Clyburn. Am I wrong?

[returnee]

72. It's just another form of "obeying in advance."

Like Wray resigning. Many examples these days. It’s not just wrong. It’s dead wrong.

[Evolve Dammit]

73. "..beyond furious." Yes indeed.

[Evolve Dammit]

74. very well said.

[iluvtennis]

75. K&R !!!

[Callie1979]

77. Only positive I see is it would be embarrassing for Trump.

[FoxNewsSucks]

78. Couldn't agree more.

[ThePartyThatListens]

82. Clyburn has a bad habit of being

Wrong OP.

[Shipwack]

83. It's that old definition of insanity...

Ever since Nixon, we’ve been “looking forward not backward.”

Nixon

Iranian hostages

9/11

Gulf War 1&2

Torture at Gitmo and elsewhere.

Now Trump’s many betrayals.

They keep refusing to punish the evils of the past, and hope that THIS time, the Republicans will learn their lesson, and be good people in the future. They say this hoping we believe the results will be different.

They hope that we don’t realize that they just didn’t have the guts to do the right thing because it would be painful in the short run.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

84. President Biden should not pardon trump