What pisses me off the most about the US healthcare and insurance systems

[spooky3]

Is that every other developed, relatively wealthy country has put together a better, less expensive system. They take a variety of forms. Each has shortcomings but none are as severe as those in the US. But we refuse to learn about these systems and adopt the best parts of them, apparently because we love giving administrators and some providers extremely high pay, and corporations profits, more than we love our people and efficient and effective use of $. Couple that with too many people’s unwillingness to believe other countries do it better, and they care too little to learn, and you have our present mess.

That’s American exceptionalism for you.

[CousinIT]

2. THIS. nt

[get the red out]

3. The US has a "wealth-care" system

And the peons with more need for medical care are considered "less useful" are allowed to be deleted.

[erronis]

29. The healthcare insurance business is "too big to fail"

Just like the other huge corporations that spend millions on congress to make sure the system works for them.

[MadameButterfly]

4. All poiliticians have to do is use the word "Socialism"

and people will be against Universal Healthcare, no matter the benefits. Not just Republicans.

--Biden insisted Bernie's single payer was unaffordable.
--Obama didn't pursue Single Payer because we had the infrastructure set up for private insurance companiesn.
--Clinton signed into law Medicare Part C which under Bush 2 became Medicare Advantage. To give away Medicare money to private Insurance companies to skim off huge profits, and now will be touted as an alternative to Medicare by Trump. Since most people don't understand that Medicare Advantage isn't Medicare.
--Teddy Kennedy torched Carter's healthcare plan which was much more sweeping that Obamacare when we had a Democratic congress to pass it. He was planning to run for president. And came to regret his opposition to Carter's plan.

Bernie gets labelled as radical even by Dems but now everyone is coming around to his original premise.

[allegorical oracle]

5. That problem is at least partly caused by Citizens United, so corporations are

treated like citizens and can make huge political donations. Now those donations have reached the billions of dollars.

It's not a way to operate a healthy democracy because only "oligarchs" will be able to afford running for the most important offices. If Musk, for instance, finances a candidate, no amount of "small dollar donations" will be able to raise more than the richest person on the planet. Predict Musk will run for POTUS one of these years.

[GiqueCee]

20. Musk-ovite...

... cannot legally run for president. But since when has the law been an impediment to the dastardly desires of the GOP? Those evil fucks have run roughshod over every other legal hurdle that might obstruct their goals, with little or no pushback from those that SHOULD have our backs. Bernie, Warren, AOC and her squad, and a paltry few others are the only ones with the cojones to defy these evil bastards. We should have their backs to fight back, tooth and nail. It's an uphill battle when virtually all the supposed "free press" are in the tank for the oligarchs. That doesn't mean we should roll over and stop trying.
And the room-temperature IQs still vote against their own best interests because they're addicted to outrageous rhetoric, even if they have to sound out any words more that two syllables long, and have no idea what "woke" actually means. I have zero respect for these assholes. Sadly, I've got a couple of 'em in my immediate family. They are beyond reason or redemption.

[allegorical oracle]

22. Yeah, I knew that, but truly believe he can get away with anything he wants. And by the time

TSF leaves office, whether dead or alive, our world may look a good bit different than it does now. The current is running in their direction.

[GiqueCee]

23. Guess we better start building one helluva big dam against that current. nt

[Moostache]

35. I deny that the current is running in their direction...

This ship - once known and established as the UNITED States of America - is simply unmoored and floating free.

Free from reason.
Free from sanity.
Free from compassion.
Free from empathy.

The tides and currents are in charge and the lunatics in charge or hiding behind the seat of power are not concerned at all.
We are far more like the Andrea Gail steaming full on into the Perfect Storm than anything else.

[MadameButterfly]

49. Pendulum

And pendulums swing back

[DENVERPOPS]

27. The best politicians

money can buy...................Citizens United, should have been called RepubliCON & Oligarchs United...........

It was one of THE last nails if not THE last nail, in the Coffin of Democracy................

This is what happens when the Bad Guys cheat to win...........

[magicarpet]

28. Musk is not a naturalized citizen. Of course the US Constitution might be change eventually to accomodate Eloon,..

.... running for pResident.

[erronis]

30. Or he can just be appointed Regent and then take over the throne.

Of course over Donald's and Junior's dead bodies.

[Moostache]

36. Don't give me that mental imagery...its cruel and unusual!!!

One the one hand, intense joy picturing the corpses of those named "Donald Trump"...
On the other hand, an even more insane son of a bitch lunatic assuming the throne...

Seppeku still on option I assume?

[magicarpet]

43. Putie could arrange that.

I'm willing to bet Eloon would give Putie far less of a migraine headache than either Djt or djtJR.

[CousinIT]

45. AND - Democrats haven't the FDR-style spine to fight back.

They need to explain to the American people about BILLIONAIRE ROBBER BARONS, which are the ACTUAL "deep state," not our lowly civil servants. For-profit wealth care is NOT healthcare. They can say this as easily as I can and use facts and figures to back it up, run ads, get on socials and push it like hell - on repeat over and over and over and over.

THAT is where MAGA has whipped our asses for decades - THE COMMUNICATIONS game.

They need to get on it, or we'll keep losing.

[erronis]

47. Yup - losing the communications game. See Cory Doctorow's post today

https://pluralistic.net/2024/12/12/the-view-from-somewhere/#abolish-rogan

[CousinIT]

48. Excellent. Sharing w/ some Dem congresscritters on Bluesky

They're not all there yet but a lot of them are. I have a starter pack of them and will add more.

Thanks!

[MadameButterfly]

50. Clearly the bubble of RW lies needs to be answered more effectively but still we must notice that right now

there are lots of Dems with spines taking enormous risk to do so. We focus on the ones who disappoint us, or the media that isn't tough enough, or the Republicans we thought were on our side (you can't expect a Trump-appointed FBI director to be our champion, or even a long line of Republican FBI directors just because they didn't break the law for Trump).

Consider what potentially awaits AOC, Schiff, Raskin, Swalwell, Warren, Sanders, Pelosi, Obama, I could go on and on. They won't betray us. Then there's Maddow, Chris Hayes, Jimmy Fallon, etc. plus hundreds of couragious journalists.

The second Schiff hit the Senate floor he said the incoming administration shouldn't be threatening to jail opponents. AO C says she wants to be the Democratic Party's top attack dog.

Bernie on John Stewart

Elizabeth Warren with Joy Reid
https://www.foxnews.com/media/elizabeth-warren-says-killing-unitedhealthcare-ceo-warning-you-can-only-push-people-so-far

They haven't had enough play because the RW billionaires have bought all kinds of media markets to reach the gullible and even much media on the "left" is owned by Conservatives. We'll be even more challenged now to find platforms to reach a wider audience. But we need to find a way so these heroes don't risk everything for nothing.

[MLWR]

6. the president-elect has the opportunity to benefit from both if he doesn't let his worst instincts come into play.

Every developed country has a very good, all-encompassing healthcare system EXCEPT America and that is the definition of "American EXCEPTionalism."

[IronLionZion]

7. The US has the wealthiest healthcare executives and sweet stock prices

[DeepWinter]

8. I am an Insurance Underwriter

30 years in Life, Health, Disability, Long Term Care. Been on the front end Underwriting and letting/denying you into the system, and on the back end with claims accepting/denying the claim.

It's a behemoth of a machine. No single event stops it in it's tracks. No single person flips a singular switch. It operates on pure statistics, there are no individuals.

I expect no change from this assasination. There should be none off a single event meant for shock and awe, publicity. Any statements or announcements will be cosmetic only, for consumption by the masses.

Hundreds of billions of dollars are mountains you're looking at to move. This is a long game. Even if radial progressive legislation is enacted by a super majority, it will still be a slow long game. Change here is measured in decades. Don't decieve yourself thinking otherwise.

[spooky3]

11. Some (eg Hillary Clinton) have been trying since 1993 or earlier. Nt

[yardwork]

17. We've noticed that it's an overwhelming system.

I was in graduate school in the late 80s, learning about our crazy system. I remember thinking then how difficult it would be to change, especially since so many Americans are so confused and misinformed about it.

It was a miracle passing the ACA, which was really just an add-on, doesn't change the system at all. Even that caused a massive meltdown in the industry and the public.

The one positive thing that might come of the assassination is that Trump is less likely to try to go after Medicare and the ACA. I didn't think that was very likely anyway. Complaining about health care is a perennial election wedge issue, as the Republicans can blame it all on Obamacare.

[GiqueCee]

24. Thanks for the encouragement nt

[idahoblue]

9. If congress really wanted to save $$$

We would have universal healthcare. But the for profit insurance companies will fight to prevent it.
We have separate government programs all doing basically the same thing.
VA
Medicare
Federal employee insurance
State run programs are
Medicaid
CHIP
Workman’s Comp
Have I left out any?

The administrators of these programs mostly make less than $200,000/year.
A single universal program would roll together all of these into a single birth to death system without worry about networks, state lines, being out of work, between jobs, or starting a business. The burden on employers would be lifted.

[ReRe]

10. "American Exceptionalism"

Those two words set me off every time I hear or read them. I didn't like them back in the day when it was cool to say them.
They made me cringe. Do they not seem a bit pompous to anyone else but me? And now more so than ever?

Any nation that doesn't care about the least of these; doesn't care that it's citizens pay exorbitant amounts of money for health care insurance, only to be denied it when they need it most; when it claims to be a nation of laws, which there could be nothing further from the truth; on and on and on and on.

Here's a new term: "American Unexceptableness"!

[TBF]

12. It is greed - healthcare needs to be nationalized. Medicare for all

would be the logical starting point.

[yardwork]

15. Apparently we don't do "logical" in the U.S.

[TBF]

18. IKR, we don't even do sane if this last election

is any indication ...

[CousinIT]

46. Americans don't do thinking in the US

They vote based on abject ignorance that they are oh-so-proud of, and the asshole billionaire robber barons feed them a steady diet of bullshit propaganda 24x7x365 and shut down public schools. This has been going on for decades with little to no pushback from Democrats or effort to match the communications game on TV, with ads, on social platforms, using influencers, taking on media ownership, nothing.

[DENVERPOPS]

31. Anyone thinking

Medicare is "free", you need to do some reading about it................and then, look at the reality of he costs of Part D Drug Insurance, with it's ludicrously high deductibles and your out of pocket costs.......

[TBF]

37. "Starting point" - we need to look at what other industrialized countries

have done. Nothing is free, and no one has said it is. Taxation is how we pay for a civilized society, and taxing billionaires is going to be where we start. That is going to be controversial for the billionaires, the press they own, and their supporters (who consider themselves as billionaires to be or something - IDK how to explain that level of stupid).

Anyhow, that's what we're up against, but we have to start somewhere.

[Voltaire2]

41. Thanks to the Biden administration Part D costs are now limited to $2000 per year.

[spooky3]

44. That's out of pocket; premiums are in addition to that, and they

Can be high if IRMAA applies.

[alarimer]

13. It comes down to how elections are financed.

Or rather, bought. And all politicians (with some exceptions) are pretty much bought and paid for by segments of the corporate world.

Until this stops being true, we are screwed.

[yardwork]

14. It comes down to the American public.

Lawmakers couldn't get away with this if more people complained.

Even here on DU, in the past week I've read several posts that insist the following: America's healthcare system is the best in the world, Medicare Advantage is a great deal for consumers and there are no problems with it, and giving all US citizens guaranteed health insurance from birth is a bad idea.

It's exhausting.

[Voltaire2]

42. yes indeed but why is that? why are we so completely bamboozled?

This ignorance and delusion is not something in the air or the water (although there is the leaded gasoline theory.) This is the result of a very well financed, planned, and implemented propaganda campaign that has saturated our media, all of our media, with messaging that has had a spectacular effect on the population.

[sinkingfeeling]

16. Doesn't anyone remember that Bill Clinton wanted to change it 1993 and was mercilessly shot down?

From Google AI with search of "clinton's healthcare plan"


President Bill Clinton's 1993 Health Security Act proposed a health care reform plan that included the following features:
Universal coverage
All citizens and permanent residents would be required to enroll in a health plan.
Health care security card
Every citizen would receive a card that would entitle them to medical treatment and preventative services, including for pre-existing conditions.
Government subsidies
The government would subsidize low-income individuals and families, as well as businesses with fewer than 75 employees

[AverageOldGuy]

19. On MSNBC

On MSNBC, Dec 11, some guy whose name I do not recall was laying it on the US "health care industry."

I don't recall his specifics but it was something like 70% of the lobbyists in DC are working for the health care industry, which is why we are the only industrialized nation without national health insurance.

He also pointed out how successful Medicare is and how little Medicare spends on administration, compared to the admin costs for private insurance.

I wish I could recall his name and that I had the foresight to record his comments . . . don't remember which MSNBC daytime show he was one but he summed it up in about five minutes.

[Nigrum Cattus]

21. Here ya go -

https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcript_of_taped_conversation_between_President_Richard_Nixon_and_John_D._Ehrlichman_(1971)_that_led_to_the_HMO_act_of_1973:
This is the beginning of the mess we are in now - all republicans

[surfered]

25. We have the most expensive system and yet our average life expectancy is the lowest of the industrialized nations.

Switzerland has the second most expensive as both our countries systems rely on private insurance

[vapor2]

26. ONE WORD GREED

[Jacson6]

32. This can be changed by educating the American Public

We can set up a Medicare Health Insurance for all system where they pay 5% of their no matter the source income over their lifetime to receive coverage with a 20% co-pay on discounted medical bills.

Avg income $58,000 in the US
a 5% flat tax will cost them $2,900 per year.
200M people will pay the flat tax each year which is: $580B.

If private corps such as hospital and Pharma don't want to be in the system with price controls they are free to offer their services on the private market.

YMMV. IMHO.

[WOLFMAN87]

33. No, no, no

We love high pay and corporate profits much more over the lives of or citizens not as much for efficiency and effective use of $.

[Emile]

34. Israel has Universal coverage and considered

one of the best Healthcare systems in the world.

[TBF]

38. I don't mind that Israel has that - wish we had it here too! nt

[Emile]

40. That's my point! We need to copy Israel.

[Martin68]

39. Yup. Exceptionally bad service, exceptionally greedy, and exceptionally clueless.

[usonian]

51. It's just capitalism, comrade!

We have the best legislators that money can buy.

[Meowmee]

52. Agree

[spooky3]

53. Here's a good summary of statistics on how US compares to other wealthy countries

https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/brief/the-state-of-the-u-s-health-system-in-2022-and-the-outlook-for-2023/#Total%20deaths%20in%20the%20United%20States%20from%20COVID-19%20and%20other%20leading%20causes,%202020-2022

[Joinfortmill]

54. Capitalism at its worst.