When Democrats lose vs When Republicans lose

[Yavin4]

When Democrats lose, the consensus becomes we have to abandon our principles and become more like Republicans. Adopt their positions just temper the rhetoric.

When Republicans lose, we have to go even harder to the right. We have to double, triple, quadruple down on our principles. They never gave an inch on abortion even though they lost multiple elections.

The answer going forward is for the Democratic party to offer a broad vision for the future. The best place to start is to lay out a case for massive public investments in education, housing, healthcare, transportation, and jobs. Run on free college. Run on forgiveness of student loans, etc.

Running as MAGA-lite is losing proposition.

[CanonRay]

1. Well said

[question everything]

2. I don't know from where you got this idea

I think that when we lose we try to find out what happened.

If you think that one idea is to run a centrist campaign means “abandoning our principles” then you are very wrong.

Just because many on DU have wanted to promote the ideas of the radical left does not mean that this is where the party should be. Biden was elected specifically because he was a moderate, not Sanders (who is not a Democrat) and not Warren.

If you want to “stick on principles” and lose elections - that’s your idea. This is how California Republicans lost all state offices in the 90s when I lived there. But if you want to win elections, you follow Bill Clinton, the first Democrat to be re-elected since FDR, about compromising.

[Yavin4]

3. When you call investing in the public commons, "ideas of the radical left", you're using centrist/right wing framing.

There is nothing "radical left" about investing in the public commons like education. The great middle class of the 1950s was built upon massive investments in education. College tuition was virtually free throughout the 1950s and 60s.

As for Bill Clinton, look at a calendar. Is this the 1990s? Bill Clinton's politics wouldn't work today. Also, let's be honest, Clinton's two elections were greatly helped by Ross Perot's split of the Republican vote.

[question everything]

7. Yes, look at the calendar.

In the 50s many workers were unionized, worked in manufacturing, were offered pensions and were able to send their children to college, often with one income.

Starting in the 70s we moved from a manufacturing based economy to a service based one. Manufacturing jobs were shipped overseas, we liked the cheap electronic that were made overseas that we could find in Walmart.

Until then the wealthy were inventors and entrepreneurs who took chances. Staring in the 70s the wealthy have been investor banking and lawyers specializing in merging and acquisitions, win or lose they got their rewards.

We cannot bring these conditions back.

From where are we going to get the funds to pay for all the freebies that so many wanted during the 2020 primaries?

Just “taxing the rich” will not achieve this. Also, while in the 50s there was a sense that we were all in this together today many want to make money differently. “Looking for number one.”. I still don’t understand what an “influencer” is and how they are earning an apparently good living.

I don’t know what the answer is; I know that the majority of the citizens could not care less about others, unless and until they are personally affected.

And let’s not mislead ourselves: Many MAGATS are low income, are dependent on government help but they choose not to think about others in a similar situation. Just full of rage.

[Yavin4]

10. Where did we get the money to pay for Reagan's tax cuts?

Where did we get the money to pay for Bush's tax cuts?
Where did we get the money to pay for Trump's tax cuts?
Where did we get the money to pay for the war in Iraq?
Where did we get the money to pay for the war in Afghanistan?
Where did we get the money to pay for the bailouts of Wall Street in 2008?
Where did we get the money to pay for the covid PPP loans?

[rampartd]

4. there is a quote by harry truman that i might get wrong

but given the choice between a fake republican and a real one the people will choose the real one every time.

this may have been wrong in 1992 and 1996, when the dlc "third way" championed the neoliberal "washington
consensus" but i think truman got it right. after all, newt gingrich was the first repub speaker in a generation.

[Yavin4]

5. Ross Perot tipped both the '92 and '96 elections to Clinton

People forget that.

[rampartd]

6. the "reform party" still has ballot status in louisiana

it was a proto "cult of personality" perot disappeared after his second loss.

. trump tried for their nomination in 2000. he lost to pat buchanon but may have learned a little bit about cults.

perot may have been sincere about debt and trade balances, but no matter how much trump sings that song, his

actions belie the rhetoric

[tritsofme]

8. That is a myth. Exits polls showed Perot voters would have split fairly equally

between Clinton and Bush in 1992, he wasn’t as big of a factor in 1996.

Clinton would have won both elections had Perot not been a candidate.

[Yavin4]

9. Exit polls are meaningless. n/t

[tritsofme]

11. Not really, there is no reason to believe they were inaccurate on this question.

Unfounded assertions that contradict clear evidence are quite meaningless though.

[Martin Eden]

12. The Republican Party is enrirely UNPRINCIPLED

But they do have an agenda, and will do anything they can to achieve it.

And, in principle, you are correct -- win or lose, that agenda keeps getting more extreme.

[Yavin4]

13. But people know exactly where they stand.

which is why they don't have a "communication" problem.

[Martin Eden]

14. Deception is at the core of Republican messaging

Their leader is the most profligate liar in American political history.

Most MAGA voters are clueless about the impact Republican (aka Trump) policies will have on their lives.

Prices will go up, not down.

Government services they depend on will be cut.

Funds for the earned benefits they paid for will be transferred to the wealthy elites.

They will pay more for medical coverage. Many will discover the "Obamacare" they hate is actually the Affordable Care Act that insures them.

Diseases formerly kept at bay by vaccines can cut their lives short, along with unregulated environmental toxins.

The ravages of catastrophic climate change will destroy more homes, businesses, and lives.

Were those consequences communicated in Republican messaging?