I believe we all owe Senator Bernie Sanders a public apology

[JMCKUSICK]

and acknowledgement that he's been so far ahead of the curve for a long long time.
Same with former President Jimmy Carter.

I'm waking up to my personal culpability in being far too dismissive of his vision.

[elleng]

1. HELL YES!

[yourout]

2. I really think he would have beaten Trump the first time.

[Raven123]

6. I've had similar thoughts

[GreenWave]

7. Or if Clinton had called upon him to be her VP.

Dirty Donnie could not pretend he was champion of working people.

[DENVERPOPS]

139. Agree

I feel that Hillary was more qualified to be President than any other candidate in recent history. No question.

I think that if she had chosen Bernie as her VP, and he had accepted that it would have won her a chunk of votes...

Most dems probably couldn't tell you even the name of her VP choice, he was so unknown.....

[SouthBayDem]

189. The "socialism" attack ads would write themselves.

If he couldn't make it out of primaries TWICE, he'd be far too toxic for independent voters. ESPECIALLY after that disastrous "60 Minutes" interview where he praised Castro.

[Evolve Dammit]

193. That was my wish at the time, What could have been

[Blue_Tires]

16. Why would you think that when he couldn't win a primary?

[Meowmee]

30. Exactly

He couldn’t win a primary- he was not going to win a general election. In addition, while I agree with a lot of of his ideas, his ideas are not his own. I and others have been for those things for many years, some long before he turned up on the scene. My paternal grandfather fought to get labor unions established in Canada, and his first girlfriend was killed in a demonstration.

I don’t owe him an apology for anything, that’s all I’m going to say about it at this point in time. There are a lot of things that he has done that I disagree with to put in mildly- one of them is trying to primary good D candidates.

[0rganism]

53. They may not be solely his ideas but he was one of a very few elected legislators consistently promoting them

Sadly enough, we drift further away from realizing any of these ideas every passing day. In five years, they won't even be visible on the Overton horizon. In ten, we'll wish for the cold comforts of today.

[sheshe2]

147. Actually John Conyers introduced the first bill in 2003...

And every two years after that up until January of 2017. Sanders only picked up the ball in September of 2017. So no, Sanders was not the only person to consistently promote them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_for_All_Act#:~:text=The%20Medicare%20for%20All%20Act,%2C%20with%2038%20co%2Dsponsors.

[0rganism]

209. Yes, as I said, *one of a very few* (not "the only" -- your words, not mine)

Conyers and others are also in that ethical few. I hope we can find more such people to join state and federal government, as they are sorely needed and in vanishingly short supply.

[tritsofme]

211. Given the circumstances under which Conyers left Congress

I’m not sure “ethical” is the correct descriptor.

[0rganism]

215. Excellent point. Perhaps "selectively ethical" or "topically ethical" would better describe him.

Conyers almost racked up enough sex assault and financial crime allegations to qualify for Trump's incoming cabinet. Instead he resigned. Funny how that works.

[LuvLoogie]

75. I look to the great, late Congressman Henry Gonzalez of Texas

As a man ahead of his time and, yet, old school.

[Polybius]

80. "He couldn't win a primary- he was not going to win a general election"

As we just witnessed, you are correct. It's hard to never win a primary and win the Presidency.

Perhaps Bernie would have beaten Trump in 2020 though, but I don't know. Maybe Biden was just about the only one who was able to beat him.

[Meowmee]

93. I would say no I don't think he could have

We will never know for sure. I think Biden was the only one that could beat him. I had talked with a friend about that before and we decided he was the only one.

[Polybius]

94. I think Bloomberg could have also won in 2020

But there's no way of knowing for sure.

[Meowmee]

99. Yeah maybe. Prolly not though imo

Was he running? I have forgotten now.

[Polybius]

104. Yeah, and he was poling great

Until he entered the debate and did terrible. Bernie picked on him because he doesn't like billionaires.

[Meowmee]

107. Right, I remember now

Last edited Mon Dec 16, 2024, 06:47 AM - Edit history (1)

You saying it here refreshed my memory. He did some awful things while mayor which he was called out for and walked back as I recall.. one was making older people shovel NYC sidewalks! Wth?? The other was ending free parking on Sundays in many areas.

[Polybius]

169. I live in NYC

While I didn't agree with him on everything, he was still by far the greatest NYC Mayor in my adulthood (maybe Ed Koch was better, but I was a kid). His first term in particular was elite. His third term was his weakest, because banning large size sodas was just extreme nanny-statism.

As for the sidewalk thing, I didn't know he implemented that. I thought it was always the law to shovel your sidewalk. I wouldn't say that he made old people shovel. They just had to have it removed (their grandkids or anyone else can remove it). It's still the law here. DeBlasio and Adams didn't repeal it.

[Meowmee]

190. I am close by

. But I went to school and worked in Manhattan during my graduates degree and after. The snow shoveling thing was a huge deal. I know he didn’t implement it because people thought it was crazy. I will have to read up on that because I’m not familiar with it already being in effect… I had never even heard of that before.. not everybody has grandchildren and I’m sorry but you don’t make senior citizens shovel sidewalks imo, that is insane. Ending of the free parking in the lower Eastside and Village never saw the light of day, ot for long anyway, because of all the complaints, lol. I think it was true for the entirety of Manhattan. I don’t remember much else about what he did I guess because I don’t or didn’t live there. I think I saw him once at an art opening years ago, but I’m not sure. Before he was mayor. I think that he would not have won for other reasons which I’m not going to get into here

[wnylib]

124. I agree with Sanders' basic theme that the American economy

is rigged against the average citizen.

But he was a one issue candidate. He lacked Secretary Clinton's and Biden's foreign policy experience. What network of people did he have available to call upon for a cabinet or for advisement on appointments? What support did he have in Congress for his economic policies or what negotiation skills did he have for gaining support?

I did not see Sanders as presidential material. He could do more as a Senator advocating for his single issue than as president over all facets of government.

Then there were his pouty supporters who would not support Clinton and contributed to Trump's 2016 win.

I have no apologies to give to Sanders.

[quakerboy]

148. A meme without substance

I dont know a single "pouty supporter who would not support Clinton". At least among Democrats, we all pivoted to support Clinton. Even though we were literally told not to by Clinton supporters.

I personally was told, here on DU, that my vote was neither needed or wanted in the general, purely because i supported Bernie in the primary. And even with that, we did vote for her.

By my reading of the exit polling, it was the middle of the road types, the casual news viewers who had been inoculated with 30 years of media hate for Hillary Clinton that stayed home. And I'd recommend (probably with all the effectiveness of Cassandra) that we stop trying to split the party by blaming each other, and find our common grounds rather than blame each other.

[wnylib]

174. Nationwide, 12% of Sanders supporters in the primaries

voted for Trump in the general election.

216,000 Sanders primary voters in MI, PA, and WI voted for Trump in the general election.

This is about the 2020 election, but cites figures from 2016. The figures are in the text below the video.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/sanders-voters-helped-trump-win-white-house-could-they-do-n1145306

Sanders supporters for Jill Stein

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/02/jill-stein-sanders-supporters-green-party

Sanders endorsed Clinton. Not all of his supporters agreed with his endorsement. People are free to vote their choice. It looks to me, though, like divisions came from people who chose not to accept Sanders' endorsement of Clinton.

Healing and unity mean accepting the fact that some voters made a different choice. If they are with us now, good. If they choose to not vote with us, they remain divided from us

I was not on DU on 2016, so I did not see the posts that you mentioned. Seems foolish and counterproductive to me to reject votes.

[ShazzieB]

197. I knew some of those "pouty" supporters, and no, they were not Democrats.

At least I don't think they were Democrats. They were people who wanted Bernie to be president, period. That was their only concern, and anyone who differed was looked on very unfavorably.

I encountered these people at a political community (that shall remain nameless)
where I had been hanging out for years. This was a nominally non-partisan community that in actuality skewed pretty far left. I was active there all through the Obama years and assumed I'd continue, but the tide turned in 2016.

Basically, the place became heavily populated with Bernie supporters who despised Hillary and by, extension, anyone who supported her. At first, it didn't seem like a big deal, but as the primary season wore on, the Berners got more and more hostile, and those who supported Hillary were made to feel more and more unwelcome. The more apparent it became that Bernie wasn't going to win the nomination, the nastier his supporters in that community became.

By the Convention, it was practically open warfare. The Bernie supporters felt he was being robbed, that he should have gotten the nomination and Hillary STOLE it from him. There were conspiracy theories about primaries supposedly being "rigged" against Bernie and about his delegates not being treated fairly at the Convention. (Yes, they said all of those things in so many words, repeatedly. It was surreal.)

Things did not improve after the Convention, at all. Instead of uniting behind the Party's chosen candidate, this group of Berners continued to nurse their grievances and their resentment and post insulting things about Hillary and snide attacks on her supporters. By election day, some of them were grudgingly talking about voting for her, but I'm not sure how many actually did.

In case you're wondering, there were moderators, but they were pretty useless. I had the distinct impression that they were on the side of the Berners, although they of course never took sides openly.

Eventually, the whole community imploded, and the last time I checked, it was no more. After the general election, there was really nothing left to talk about, and I didn't stick around much longer. (I'm really not sure why I stayed as long as I did; I think it was probably sheer stubbornness as much as anything.)

I don't believe that many (If any) of the people I'm talking about were actually Democrats. Their allegiance was obviously to Bernie himself, and they supported his run for the Democratic nomination merely as a means to the end of getting him elected president.They seemed to think the Democratic Party should hand him the nomination and were offended when that didn't happen. They continually badmouthed the way the Party was doing things and displayed a complete lack of interest in supporting any Democratic nominee that wasn't Bernie in the general election. When Bernie didn't get the nomination, it was all over for them. If anyone pointed our that the only way to keep TSF from becoming president would be to elect Hillary, the reply was deafening silence. They didn't like Trump, but it was obvious that they regarded Hillary as a very poor second best to Bernie and couldn't work up much concern about the possibility of Trump winning.

So yes, there were "pouty" Bernie supporters who didn't take it well when Hillary got the nomination, and I suspect that they were not actually Democrats, just Berners who could not accept the idea that the whole Democratic Party didn't fall in love with Bernie the way they had. But unpleasant as that experience was, I have never blamed Bernie or assumed those people were representative of his supporters as a whole.

Personally, I like Bernie. I didn't know much about him prior to 2016, but what I learned about him, I liked.i was sill a Hillary supporter, but I had a generally favorable view of him and still do, even though some of his supporters were not very nice to meonce upon a time.

[snot]

65. In 2016, he won 23 state primaries.

Alaska, Colorado, Democrats Abroad, Hawaii, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Maine, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, Utah, Vermont, Washington, Wisconsin, West Virginia, and Wyoming A number of other states were close.

This despite taking no donations from corporations and less media coverage than other candidates. Also despite DNC cheating against him that was admitted not only by Donna Brazile in her book but also subsequently in court by the DNC in a suit by Sanders supporters (the court held that since the DNC was a private corporation, it had the power to violate its own charter and the Sanders supporters were therefore SOL).

Sanders appealed to voters across parties and from all ethnic & other groups whose main concerns was their ability to make a decent living and care for their families.

[LisaM]

90. Many of those were caucuses.

The one in Washington State was so stacked against Hillary voters, many people I know didn't go. Among other things, it was held during a two-hour window the Saturday of Easter weekend, timing that heavily favored younger, single voters. I sent in an affidavit, knowing that if it went to a second round of voting, my vote wouldn't count. I knew some Bernie voters that were gleefully holding voting sites open for hours (even after places were supposed to close), knowing they would lose people with other obligations (e.g., caretakers and people with kids) to attrition.

I am not saying Bernie didn't win the Washington caucus. But I am saying that the caucus system favored his younger, more vocal voters with flexible schedules and not nurses, or teachers, or caregivers, or people getting things ready for Easter the next day.

Washington has since - thank God - moved to a real primary, but I wanted to point out that it's misleading to say he won true primaries in all those places.

[question everything]

97. Same in Minnesota. A caucus in the dead of winter

[StevieM]

110. The DNC did not cheat Bernie. He lost fair and square.

The DNC does not have the ability to significantly affect the race.

Donna Brazille piled on Hillary, along with the rest of the country, when we all decided to kick the crap out of her in the aftermath of her loss to Trump. But she was not the DNC chair during the primary, so her opinion doesn't prove anything.

The DNC said that in court in order to get the case quickly dismissed. It was a ridiculous lawsuit, and it made sense to do away with it by pointing out how meritless it was to begin with.

Bernie had every opportunity to win the race. He just couldn't.

[lees1975]

129. You can say he lost, according to the manner in which the Democratic party ran its primaries.

But that can't be defined as "fair and square." And respectfully, your statement that the DNC does not have the ability to significantly affect the race is completely false. Superdelegates weight heavily toward the party elite choice, not bound by the way primary voters cast ballots, and were heavily stacked against Bernie. The DNC also has a lot of weight when it comes to raising money.

I would not say that the DNC cheated Bernie. But the manner in which primaries were run in 2016 made an outsider's chance at the nomination virtually impossible. They were not "fair and square," they were stacked to help the favorite win.

[delisen]

156. Why did he not join and build the party?

Last edited Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:25 PM - Edit history (1)

If you want to be an outsider or quasi+outsider why would you be surprised if those who were party builders might prefer a candidate who they had already worked closely with?

[intheflow]

165. So you think the only way for liberals to win is to walk lockstep with the DNCC?

I didn't call myself a Democrat until the 2016 election even though I've been voting since the '80s. In all those years, I voted straight D party line. In the run-up to 2016, Sanders voting record was something like 96% the same as Clinton (for example: Sanders never voted for the fascist PATRIOT Act, but Clinton did). I don't agree with anyone 96% of the time, but you all demonized him because he has an I instead of a D. Party over country though, amirite?

[delisen]

173. I have not demonized anyone

Sanders chose how he wanted to affiliate with Democrats and how he presented himself to voters over his many years in politics.
He positioned himself. Many party members chose someone else.
Everyone made their informed choices.

[StevieM]

186. It was more than possible for Bernie to win. He just didn't.

The DNC does not help candidates raise money. They do it, or fail to do it, on their own. And the Clintons never needed the DNC's help with that.

Superdelegates are a separate issue from alleged DNC interference. And they were never going to give the nomination to Hillary. We saw that in 2008 when all her SDs went over to Obama at the end.

I can't think of any advantage HRC had which can compare to the advantage that party-run caucuses gave the Bernie. They were highly undemocratic and clearly produced very different results than a primary would have produced.

All Sanders had to do in order to win the nomination was get more votes. If he had gotten them, he would have been the candidate, and no superdelegates or party establishment would have stopped him. He had the money and the organization--and again, then DNC did nothing deter him. He lost fair and square.

[snot]

195. Results of a quick search:

NPR: "Clinton Campaign Had Additional Signed Agreement With DNC In 2015" https://www.npr.org/2017/11/03/561976645/clinton-campaign-had-additional-signed-agreement-with-dnc-in-2015 : "Brazile wrote that she discovered an agreement that 'specified that in exchange for raising money and investing in the DNC, Hillary would control the party's finances, strategy, and all the money raised. Her campaign had the right of refusal of who would be the party communications director, and it would make final decisions on all the other staff.' ... [T]he Clinton campaign struck [a] separate memorandum of understanding [with the DNC] giving the campaign staffing and policy oversight. ... The DNC has not denied this characterization or timeline." And "Emails hacked from Clinton campaign chairman John Podesta and released by Wikileaks showed that Brazile, a former CNN commentator, passed along details about questions Clinton would receive at a primary debate and a candidate forum hosted by the network." – among other problems.

Politico: "DNC sought to hide details of Clinton funding deal" https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/dnc-leak-clinton-team-deflected-state-cash-concerns-226191

Newsweek: "Hillary Clinton Robbed Bernie Sanders Of The Democratic Nomination, According to Donna Brazile" https://www.newsweek.com/clinton-robbed-sanders-dnc-brazile-699421

And there were other questionable tactics used by Dems against Sanders, like claiming – despite the demonstrable facts that he was the ONLY candidate ever to have marched with Martin Luther King and had actually been arrested at another anti-segregation protest – that Sanders was a racist.

Sanders had a lot of supporters who held their noses and voted for Hillary despite the fact that she and the DNC had gone to such lengths to sabotage his candidacy; but some of his supporters couldn't stomach the way things had gone down.

And there certainly remains a giant question mark as to whether Sanders might have beaten Trump – I believe that given a fair chance and, once nominated, support from the party, he would have.

But Wall St. & other big businesses made clear from early on that they wouldn't have it.

[StevieM]

207. The negative characterizations you are citing came from Donna Brazille.

As I said elsewhere, Donna's opinion does not constitute proof of anything. The media piled on Hillary after 2016 and happily allowed anyone to write up a hateful and negative narrative about her and her campaign.

You wrote in bold: "The DNC has not denied this characterization or timeline." What you are forgetting is how radioactive HRC was in the aftermath of her 2016 loss. The media obliterated her with a brutal post-election narrative, the people blamed her for not defeating Trump, and nobody was going to defend her against any criticism or allegation. Her critics, in both parties, quickly identified this dynamic and repeatedly took advantage of it to pile on.

Here is a quote from your own article:

"Nothing in this agreement shall be construed to violate the DNC's obligation of impartiality and neutrality through the Nominating process. All activities performed under this agreement will be focused exclusively on preparations for the General Election and not the Democratic Primary. Further we understand you may enter into similar agreements with other candidates."

Not that any of this even matters. The DNC is not an organization that has the ability to rig primaries, or even significantly affect them.

[snot]

208. I do not recall the media ever being as negative about Hillary as you suggest.

although to be honest, I mainly listen to public radio (NPR & PBS) – they certainly weren't very critical, just freaked out that Trump won and desperately seeking answers (while mostly avoiding acknowledging the likelihood that Trump was promising more help to financially struggling voters where they felt they most needed it: their pocketbooks).

As for the "Nothing in this agreement shall be construed..." language in the contract, I read that as the DNC trying to cover its behind. It probably would have protected them if it had failed to give Hillary the advantages promised in the earlier portions of the contract, but I know of no suggestion that it didn't perform as promised.

[yellow dahlia]

232. I believed at the time, that Bernie would have won in the 2016 election against the grifter.

Yes. He lacked some of the experience in foreign diplomacy that people would have wanted him to have...but. Bernie is smart and has the ability for deference and humility when necessary. No President has it all, but they have professionals around them to educate them and guide them.

My biggest concern was his top lieutenants who did not represent him well...IMHO.

[iemanja]

131. There are so many false statements in that post

it’s overwhelming.

[FSogol]

149. Cool story Bro, "They cheated (this is not in dispute)"

[ProfessorGAC]

172. Self-Contradictory Post

...cause he took many of the great points Bernie was saying on the trail--except his were all lies.

What?
They were great points but when someone else says them they're lies?
If they're lies, they weren't great points in the first place.
If they were great points, they're not lies.
Don't think you thought your statement completely through.

[ProfessorGAC]

181. Whoosh!

Went right by you, didn't it.
Do I have to explain that youtitally missed the point?

[Old Crow]

187. Respectfully, you missed the point, not the other poster.

If one person makes a statement, fully intending to follow through, that's being honest. If another person repeats the same statement, never intending to follow through, that's a lie.

[ProfessorGAC]

199. I Missed Nothing

It's prima facie illogical despite your attempts to spin it.
It would have required far more elegant phrasing for the post to which I replied to be interpreted as you suggest.
You assigned unknowable intent where no such thing was suggested.
That's pitifully convenient

[Old Crow]

201. Thank you.

Sometimes you win an argument simply by letting the other person reveal himself. Have a good night.

[yellow dahlia]

231. Despite the less than admirable behavior from the DNC, and

the other actions taken to eliminate Bernie from the "equation", I believe he has behaved admirably and did not exhibit sour grapes. He works for the benefit of the citizens and keeps his nose to the grindstone.

I also think that some of the upper ranks of his campaign may not have been the advisors I would have chosen to represent him.

[thesquanderer]

66. Different voter pool, different opponents. It is possible he could have persuaded more voters than Tim Kaine did.

Maybe enough to push the ticket over the edge in some close states.

And while it may not be the best comparison considering the ultimate outcome, it didn't seem to bother Biden that his VP was not able to win a single primary contest. At least Sanders did indeed win a bunch!

[progressoid]

142. Kaine added nothing to the ticket.

Sanders would have been a huge addition. But it would never happen. Too many, shall we say, personality differences to overcome.

[Nanjeanne]

86. NH, CO, MN, OK, VT, KS, ME, MI, ID, UT, AK, HI, WA, WI, WY, RI, IN, WV, OR, MN, ND

[question everything]

39. Many of his supporters did vote for Trump in 2006. Similar message: how awful life was

This is why Biden has been such a fresh air: “there is nothing wrong with America that cannot be fixed.”

[SnoopDog]

57. Maybe Repubilcan Sanders' supporters voted for the orange anus...

But not Democrats who were Sanders supporters.

[ThePartyThatListens]

92. Bernie didn't say, or suggest that

America couldn't be fixed.

[question everything]

98. Sanders was always angry. As was Warren. Biden's positive, uplifting message was encouraging

[ThePartyThatListens]

117. We're living in a time that warrants anger, and it didn't start just now.

For instance, are you currently angry at the state of affairs?

[IbogaProject]

47. Yep Bernie was polling much stronger against Teabag in 2015 & 16

And some moved from Bernie over to tRump.

[MadameButterfly]

100. i'm still meeting Republicans who like Bernie

The Democratic Party assumed it was all about far left vs moderate.

But there was something else brewing that Trump and Bernie tapped into. Establishment vs anti-establishment. Radical change for a disillulioned, cynical, angry, struggling working class. Speaking the language of the working people, keeping it simple, not just for the college educated.
Of course only one of them was the real deal.

[HarryM]

116. Absolutely!

[AverageJoe]

179. The polling at the time

had Bernie easily beating Trump, with Clinton barely squeaking by Trump. We all know how that worked out. Bernie was not only right on the issues, he was BY FAR the better candidate.

[Old Crow]

182. Agreed.

It appears to me he's the only one who's offered a clear antidote to this nation's decade-long slide into authoritarianism. If I had $10 for every American who's told me that they, or someone they knew, would have voted for Bernie Sanders in 2016, but wound up voting for Trump instead, my next mortgage payment would be taken care of.

[charliea]

218. I hoped he would...

I was an independent voter my entire life until 2016. I joined the Democratic party to vote for Bernie in my state's primary. One party had a man who'd I heard about since he was "the Socialist Mayor" of Burlington, the other had evil clowns. Honestly Hillary would have been acceptable but I wanted Bernie, if a choice was available. (Of course I assumed rationality would prevail and didn't consider America would vote for a pumpkin)

I never thought H.L. Mencken was right, now I'm not too sure:

As democracy is perfected, the office of the president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart’s desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.

[hedda_foil]

228. I thought so too. Bernie focused on working people's real needs.

I don't know if we were right. Guess I never will. But his issues were the issues that the majority of Americans wanted addressed. Trump focused on the same things. Sure, he was lying, but he knew what he was doing back then.

[Skittles]

3. um no

hell no

[LisaM]

18. The guy who picked Tulsi Gabbard to be his spokesperson?

And then doubled down on that later? The guy who picked Jeffrey Sachs, the austerity guy, to be his foreign policy advisor? The guy who referred to Planned Parenthood as "the establishment?"

Err, no.

[LisaM]

24. Same.

That's why I like you so much!

[Orrex]

33. I don't want to criticize him for fear that he'll switch to (D) again & put me in violation of the TOS.

[Skittles]

35. LOL

yup

[Nixie]

22. +1. The guy who is used as a ridicule reference for Democrats.

Do people not hear the GOP smearing us based on Bernie?

[stopdiggin]

25. Sanders may have made many little hearts go pitty-pat

"ahead of the curve for a long, long time .." ?
Ummm ... Not any curve that appears visible from this vantage point.

Don't think I'll be apologizing to Senator Sanders for his prescience ..
(or much else ..)

[getagrip_already]

229. Agree, he was a major player to losing in 2016

Not stamping out the bro's established them. Mysogynists and haters.

I will never forgive him for letting that solidify. Im not saying he was one, but they supported him and he encouraged it.

He himself, meh. What he allowed was terrible.

[Skittles]

230. yes he was

I will never forgive him either, nope.

[underpants]

4. He's always stated the obvious 👍

[Attilatheblond]

5. Bernie has generally been right all along

but he can't get many to pay attention; not his fault people don't do reality. And he hasn't gotten much actually accomplished legislative-wise because he hasn't figured how to get thru to the rest of the people on the Hill.

[questionseverything]

222. Bernie's amendment lead to the only audit of the fed we have ever had

Bernie’s amendment to the aca provides for the community clinics that serve those on the bottom

Bernie was the one that got people the $600. Per week unemployment supplement during the pandemic

So while it’s true he hasn’t written bunches of entire bills that got made into law, it’s wrong to say he hasn’t been effective

[malaise]

8. THIS

Rec

[UpInArms]

9. I have always

loved an honored Bernie

He is a national treasure

[Irish_Dem]

10. I don't have to apologize.

He is one of my favorite politicians of all times.
The dirt heaped on him has been totally unfair.

Though sometimes I admit I am to the left of Bernie.

[Blue_Tires]

15. Carter never fucked us, but St. Bern did.

[displacedvermoter]

32. When exactly?

[Blue_Tires]

42. Late in 2016

When he infamously tweeted out that he didn't think Trumpers were racist, they were only suffering from "economic anxieties" as if all it took for racist angry white folks to quit being racist was for more job opportunities to return to the ol' hometown.

This was a green light for his people to vote for Donnie just to spite Hillary

[displacedvermoter]

85. Kinda sounds like what Fetterman said about

Trump supporters in Pennsylvania, and lots of folks here are calling him some kind of prophet.
You down on him, too?

[Hekate]

105. There's a Trumpist up the hill from me who's sooooo economically anxious. He's an orthopedic surgeon...

Lives in a giant 2 story house. Kept a gigantic Trump banner hanging from the 2nd floor balcony practically all of Trump’s first term. Flew an assortment of defaced US flags plus the Gadsden flag after Trump lost and in honor of the Jan. 6 insurrection.

Every time I passed his house for years I thought of that dumb “economically anxious” theory — as if one size could fit all for the appeal the Apricot Hellbeast had.

[markpkessinger]

236. I've got news for you . . .

. . . I was a supporter of Bernie in the 2016 primary, who, like 87% of his supporters, united behind Hillary in the general election.

I knew a few of those hardcore, anti-Hillary types. They hardly needed Bernie's or anyone else's permission to vote against Hillary. These were folks who were thoroughly disillusioned by the two-party system. Many had registered as Democrats solely because they wanted to be able to support Bernie, and wouldn't have been voting Democratic but for Bernie. They had been anti-Hillary since before Bernie even announced that he was running. Most refused to support either Trump or Hillary, and felt their only options were to vote third party or not at all. I disagreed with them on their views about Hillary. In some cases, those views were clearly motivated by misogyny, but in many others, it was motivated by a sense of betrayal of the working class by Democratic Party that went back to the Bill Clinton administration.

So you can't really say that Bernie, who ran against her only in the primary, caused Hillary's loss in the general election. That explanation is just a little too convenient for the Democratic establishment!.

[Blue_Tires]

237. Wow... Y'all are still doing this?

Please come find me the next time we have a big thread in GD about the infallible St. Bern, and we'll continue the discussion from there...✌️

[markpkessinger]

238. I have never said or even implied, anywhere, that Bernie is infallible

But at the same time, neither does his fallibility mean that every criticism of him by Democrats is valid.

[markpkessinger]

239. Nice attempt at setting up a straw man, though. n/t

[Walleye]

28. The "oligarch Democratic caucus"? Never heard that one before.

[Tesha]

12. Bernie has always been on the mark,

And he’s a damned good man who’s been treated horribly.

[Henry203]

13. Bernie was right.

I have been single payer since 2001 when I had to pay for insurance when I started my business. Two of my conservatives friends also want single payer.

[Blue_Tires]

14. I'm sorry, exactly what the hell was he ahead of the curve about?

And I'll apologize to St. Bern the moment he fucking apologizes for giving his blessing for his fanatics to vote for the angry orange idiot out of pure anti-Hillary spite.

I'll admit Sanders talks a good game, but when it comes to him ACTUALLY DOING SOMETHING IN THE GODDAMNED SENATE, it's just a giant goose egg.

[Skittles]

19. thank you

BS certainly is one reason we got Donald Fucking Trump - I will never forgive him, let alone APOLOGIZE to him

[Keepthesoulalive]

29. People are looking for a savior

Bernie ain’t it. He would have to get legislation passed. He courted Joe Rogan and some really bad characters.
His vision is narrow , he sees everything as a class issue it’s a lot more convoluted than that.
He talks a good talk , what bills has he authored?

[Hekate]

106. Bernie is fine up to the point you realize he has a one-size-fits-all solution. Half the population...

…the female half, is up against quite a different wall than the male half.

Most of us women end up with children, are responsible for their care and the care of the house, work at jobs where we earn a fraction of what men earn for comparable skills, lag far behind in growth opportunities because of maternity leave and time off for taking kids to the doctor and scrambling for childcare…

Married women soon realize how much their income is necessary to their husband’s ability to keep the family above water — but men are not expected to work two jobs (wage plus home) and employers are absolutely not on board with the constant pull in all directions that female employees experience.

God forbid you should find yourself a single mother, whether through divorce or widowhood. My experience with being a single mother was that there was little mercy to be had.

Bernie’s social and economic plans sounded idealistic, and he certainly spoke with fervor. But try as I might I could never find where I and my sisters fit in to those plans of his. And I did try. My husband liked Bernie and still does — in Bernie he heard the echoes of the old men in the NY neighborhood he grew up in. So I listened hard — but the Senator was not talking to me about my needs as a woman and mother.

And when the great Chicana civil rights activist Dolores Huerta was physically shoved aside from a podium by arrogant white young Bernie Bros, who were never chastised or brought to heel by him, I was sickened and I was done.

[displacedvermoter]

37. You got the quote about his giving that blessing

Last edited Sun Dec 15, 2024, 11:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary overwhelming carried Bernie's home state in 2016 against Trump. So what fanatics are you talking about? You folks keep pointing at Vermont as a hotbed of craziness, but the crazies here voted for Clinton, apparently despite Bernie's blessing to vote otherwise.

[Blue_Tires]

46. I'm specifically referring to the fanatics on Twitter living in swing states

[Dave Bowman]

55. Ah, yes, twitter. An excellent source of information. It was a dump even before muskrat bought it.

[Blue_Tires]

63. It may have been a dump pre-Elmer

But at least the previous management tried to combat disinformation and banned bots and Nazis.

Elmer made twitter into his own personal weapon against Dems.

[Cha]

49. Rec.. Mahalo!

[tritsofme]

17. lol thanks, I needed a good laugh tonight. Bernie hasn't done anything that would change my assessment of him.

[JMCKUSICK]

20. The only reason "He hasn't"

is because most of us were conned into believing he was too far out there.
Increase SS, MFA, stronger worker protections, corporate greed, we can go on and on.
That we treated him like he was a "Socialist" because we too believed all the free market crap is entirely on those of us that dismissed him.

[Lunabell]

58. Exactly!

We need to return to our working class roots. Minus the racism.

[question everything]

82. He could have changed his registration to a Democrat before seeking the nomination

[betsuni]

83. He was the one who claimed liberal Democrats like FDR/LBJ were "democratic socialists" and not capitalists.

Obviously not true. Medicare for All has been around forever (absurd to think it was "his" idea), Hillary ran on Medicare eligibility at 55, unions, worker protections, the Fight for Fifteen had been around since 2012, Obama ran on a Green New Deal. Nothing was new or his idea, regular liberal Democratic policies. Anyone can look it up.

Breaking up big banks, cancelling all student loan, ban billionaires, that Democrats are corrupted by regular donations to the party, Democrats rig elections -- those are Bernie ideas.

[JMCKUSICK]

87. I didn't say there were his ideas,

Just that that's what he loudly ran on and supported without compromise. And yes the others you mentioned too.

[WarGamer]

23. Don't forget Elizabeth Warren, too...

They've been consistently right... even when their colleagues were playing kissy face with neocons and billionaires.

[rampartd]

61. liz, and bernie, are great at questioning the oligarchs at committee hearings

i hope they get a chance at these trump appointees in confirmation hearings.

[berniesandersmittens]

137. The Persisterhoid lives!

Warren was my wish to run in 2016. When she decided not to run I supported Bernie but moved immediately to Hillary.

[Hekate]

26. Yeah ... no. I have softened on him, but he still has never acknowledged the misogyny of his Bros and...

…the part they played in bringing down the one person who could have beat Trump 8 years ago, the candidate who actually won the popular vote by 3 million votes.

Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

[Walleye]

31. I agree, I felt the misogyny from some of his supporters

Not just against Hillary, but against Elizabeth Warren as well

[Noel Kums]

27. Always have huge respect for Bernie. Truly a man for the people.

[Walleye]

34. Bernie never got Medicare for all or any of that legislation actually passed

I think Bernie is not a very good politician. Not as good as Joe Biden, who got a lot of his legislation passed.

[Yavin4]

45. You're making the classic mistake that so many Democrats make.

You're confusing legislating with campaigning. Campaigns are about big ideas that can be communicated in 5 secs. Legislating is the process of transforming those ideas into law. There, you need details.

[Walleye]

50. He has been in the Senate a long time. They only have to stand for election every six years.

So what are you saying we need to stop legislating and start campaigning all the time? Republicans have no idea how to write and pass legislation. Except when it’s to prohibit something. Or punish some people

[Yavin4]

56. What someone accomplishes in any legislature has little to nothing to do with running for the presidency.

I'm saying the two are completely different. Voters are not going to give you credit for a bill that you sponsored in congress. They want big ideas, big visions.

[Walleye]

60. So we just campaign on ideas? Legislative accomplishments don't matter? I don't get it.

It takes a lot of political skill to get legislation passed too, you have to convince your fellow lawmakers to vote for your bill.

[Yavin4]

62. Completely different level of political skill.

Different in many, many ways.

[Walleye]

64. So a person has to have both abilities to be good in our government

Joe Biden ran on his accomplishments and he won the presidency. He was in the Senate for 35 years. We got beat this time because of lies and slander. And also a major reason, misogyny. We can’t use their techniques to campaign because it’s contrary to what our party stands for.

[Yavin4]

67. Biden won in 2020 because we were in a national crisis, not bc of his time in the senate.

Trump won because he spun a vision. Yes, it was a dark and ugly vision, but it was a vision that the median voter could identify.

[Walleye]

73. After this last election, I don't think we can count on the median voter to come to any kind of rational conclusion

Millions of people helped put Putin‘s choice in the White House. I’ll never understand that.

[sheshe2]

158. That would be like having a 'concept of a plan'.

[Walleye]

160. Agree

[sheshe2]

163. 😉

[question everything]

36. If he wanted to be the Democratic candidate he should have changed his registration to DEMOCRAT

This is what he has been doing in Vermont!

He is probably laughing at all the adulation on these pages.

[SunImp]

48. He is probably laughing at all the adulation on these pages.

That fits Manchin more than Bernie especially right now.

[La Coliniere]

38. I've always respected Bernie.

Never understood the anti Bernie sentiments.

[BWdem4life]

40. Not me.

Have supported him all along

[mcar]

41. Except for President Carter...

[Yavin4]

43. As a Hillary and Biden primary supporter, I agree 100%.

Bernie's ideas are the future of the party.

[ananda]

44. I've always been a Sanders fan!

I voted for him in every primary, but after he lost,
I always voted for the Democrat.

[Cha]

51. Ha! That's too Bad.. there will NOT be

an "apology" from this DU member of 22 years.

[oasis]

72. I'm with you on that Cha. 👍

Mahalo for chiming in.

[Cha]

91. lol... had to..

Chime in. Feelings are too strong Not to.

You're Welcome.. Mahalo to you, oasis!

[LetMyPeopleVote]

120. I am with you Cha

[usonian]

52. For all the rancor, he has been a great team player

with big wins for Joe, Bernie and all of us.

I was so proud of him and AOC for their efforts.

Early in my DU "career" I called Bernie a "populist" and got hammered, but he truly speaks for the working folks and retired folks and homeless and unemployed and young.

He and AOC were totally on point at the convention and during the campaign.

[Lunabell]

54. Yep!

His vision is a way forward to winning elections. AOC needs to be listened to and heeded. We can no longer be corporatist Democrats. We need to be by the people and for the people. Make a difference between us and the "drain the swamp" rich guys. They clearly ARE the swamp! And just using their "populist" lies to persuade.

[TBF]

59. I don't owe him an apology - I did as much as I could for him financially when he ran

and I think he's still the best politician on the hill.

Haters can shove it.

[ItsjustMe]

68. I see some of the usual suspects are still bashing Bernie

The reason Bernie was never popular with some on the Democratic Party is because he was too far to the left for them. The Democratic Party has this nasty habit of muzzling some of their best people.

[LauraInLA]

151. Given that he has refused to join the Democratic Party....

[Cha]

161. NO.. you're Wrong. That's Not "Why he's NOT

Last edited Mon Dec 16, 2024, 03:31 PM - Edit history (1)

Popular" with me.

You do Not speak for me.

As far as "usual suspects" go... I call them my Kindred Democratic Spirits.

[sheshe2]

180. + 1000

[Cha]

184. See What I Mean.. Primo Example.. Mahalo, she!💙

💙

[Oopsie Daisy]

221. Absolutely. There are many searching for (and inventing) "reasons" while overlooking the obvious.

[Cha]

223. Exactly.. Mahalo, Oopsie Daisy..

[LizBeth]

164. Suspects? You pin Duers as suspects?

[H2O Man]

69. I first met Bernie

when he had been elected mayor. The last time was in 2016. I've had nothing but respect for him ever since. His values are the same now as they have ever been. He is the Conscience of the Senate.

[Easterncedar]

122. I admired him as mayor of Burlington when I was at UVM.

One of my professors dismissed him ad a “gadfly”. Being a gadfly is a good place to start, I think! We should encourage our gadflies.

[LizBeth]

166. Look at his mayor agenda and you will see a right leaning Dem or a left leaning Rep.

[ismnotwasm]

70. No.

[JohnSJ]

71. For What? for those speculating that they believe he would have won against trump in 2016, seem to forget that

some very prominent people he had on his campaign refused to vote for Hillary in the general election, Brianna Joy Gray, Nina Turner, David Sirota , Cornell West etc. not only refused to vote for Hillary in the general election, but encouraged others to do likewise, and that includes his prominent supporters like Susan Sarandon etc.

If he couldn’t convince those people when the Supreme Court was at stake to vote for Hillary, why anyone believes he could win a general election for presidency is beyond me.

He couldn't convince 10% of his supporter to vote for Hillary in the general election in those critical swings states, and it is NOT a coincidence that in everyone of those critical swing states Hillary lost by less than 1% while Jill Stein, received 1% of the vote in those critical swing states.

I recall some of them going on certain shows on MSNBC such as Chris Hayes pushing a vote for Jill Stein as an "alternative", and that includes Chris Hayes having Jill Stein herself pushing that crap.

There is absolutely no evidence that he could have won the general election.

As far as Sanders misrepresentation that Democrats lost labor because Democrats did show enough support for labor, that is nonesense, especially in the 2024 election, where labor split the vote between Harris and the sociopath. The Teamster leaders and others refused to endorse Harris, but had no problem going to the RNC convention, and cater to the sociopath, along with his anti-union compadres musk, and their billionaire cronies.

Labor did the same thing when Carter was running against Reagan. They voted for reagan. You can't blame the Democrats for that, and you can't blame the Democrats for what happened in 2024 either when the stakes were more clear than they had every been.

The consequences labor paid under reagan will be even worse under the sociopath and his billionaires, and they deserve any bad consequences that result from that fiasco.

[Cha]

96. Mahalo for this, John... It's exactly True. We were

There an saw it happen in Real Time.

[Lunabell]

74. Change this party or we will not win elections.

You either change or die. I don't want this party to die. There's too much good. We need to listen to the people who voted for the orange blobfather because he spoke to their frustrations. (Not the racist messages) But, his lies about the swamp.

He got them to believe that he is not the swamp, but he and his rich friends really are. We have got to put our corporatist days behind us and give the people hope for a better way than Wallstreet and huge ceo paychecks.

Change or die.

[JohnSJ]

79. That is one take, but perhaps those that voted for the sociopath agree with the

sociopath. Trump never hid that he was a racist, sexist, bigot, and in fact campaigned on it.

Sorry but I don’t buy the argument “they didn’t believe trump was part of the swamp”, they knew exactly what he was, he campaigned on it, and they are going to learn a very hard lesson as they did when they voted for Reagan over Carter.

Some people only learn the hard way.

The Supreme Court is gone for a generation. It will be interesting if our democracy survives this.

[Lunabell]

84. You can believe what you want.

But, when presented with the evidence, you may want to change your tune. Have you even read about his voters and how they like him because he speaks his mind? That they believe his hype about grocery prices? About how "illegals" (his word, not mine) are stealing their jobs? About how we are giving free stuff to "illegals." About how he is going to make the economy work for them and bring them higher wages, bring back manufacturing jobs to America or "drill, baby, drill" to decrease has prices? Yeah, WE know they were lies, but less aware voters don't. They believe and trust him.

So you can belive anything you want, but the evidence shows a different situation.

[TRHST82]

141. The party has been moving away from neoliberalism. Biden is the most progressive and pro-union president in decades.

And most dem politicians don't put social issues/identity [politics front-and-center either.

It's more about personality and culture than policy.

Look, this election wasn't a blowout by any means. We shouldn't overcorrect. But we do need more crafty and ruthless leaders/officials as well as a stronger media infrastructure to combat disinformation, energize the base and win over low-info independents.

[Lunabell]

206. I am not going to disagree about President Biden.

But, the party as a whole? Not so much. The corporate stench permeates too many. Big money and it shouldn't be involved in politics.

[yellow dahlia]

233. What if the reason VP Harris didn't win was not because there need to be changes in the Party.

What if the variables were too many - disinformation; election interference; voter suppression; shenanigans of other kinds. Did I mention misinformation and propaganda...and lies?

[pnwmom]

76. You don't think we'd have been better off if he'd endorsed Hillary as soon as she won the primaries

rather than bringing his followers to demonstrate outside the convention?

If he had enthusiastically endorsed her and campaigned for her (instead of waiting till September), history could have been changed.

[StevieM]

111. I agree that his behavior was problematic. But let's not underestimate how much damage James Comey did.

He was a bigger factor in that race than all other factors put together IMO.

[pnwmom]

171. We'll never know. But Bernie was the single PROGRESSIVE who could have made a difference if he'd done the right thing.nt

[markpkessinger]

216. Hillary didn"t lose because Bernie waited too long to endorse her . . .

Hillary lost because, in an election cycle where populist sentiment was running high, and her opponent was barnstorming across the country with huge rallies, she chose to stay mostly within her comfort zone of small groups of well-heeled donors. She thought she could stonewall on the issue of her speeches to Wall Street banks. But if she had released those speeches during the primary, when Bernie asked her to release them, she would have had plenty of time to get out in front of that issue before the general election . Bui no, she stonewalled, and in so doing left herself wide open for something like the Wikileaks email dump.

I happen to believe Hillary would have made a terrific president. But I also believe she ran an absolutely horrible campaign.

[pnwmom]

217. In an election decided by so few votes, his enthusiastic campaigning for her -- as he did for Biden --

could have made the difference. Instead, he brought his supporters to protest at the convention and didn't campaign for her till September, and then at only a half dozen events.

[markpkessinger]

224. Sorry, but this is slander . . .

Bernie did 39 rallies in 13 states for Hillary. And the suggestion that he wasn't enthusiastic about it is a flat out lie!

https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/30/politics/bernie-sanders-umbrage-clinton-2016/index.html

[pnwmom]

225. You don't know what "slander" means.

He only spoke at a half dozen events in September, after doing nothing for Hillary in June -- when she'd already achieved the necessary number of delegates -- or in July and August. (Too busy writing his book.)

Yes, he campaigned hard in October, in his unenthusiastic way, but by then it was too late.

In his speeches, Mr. Sanders is more passionate about his disdain for Republican nominee Donald Trump than he is enthusiastic about Mrs. Clinton. He offers no anecdotes about the former secretary of state, or testimonials to her experience or leadership.

“This campaign is not a personality contest,” he told several hundred people at the United Auto Workers hall here. “I understand that neither Hillary Clinton nor Donald Trump are particularly popular. I get that. But forget about that for a moment. Take a hard look at the agendas of the campaign, what these candidates stand for.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanders-packs-schedule-with-campaign-stops-for-hillary-clinton-1475928002

June 12, 2016
Senator Bernie Sanders said on Sunday that he would “take our campaign for transforming the Democratic Party into the convention,” refusing to concede the presidential nomination to Hillary Clinton though not explicitly saying he would challenge her for it.

Mrs. Clinton earned enough delegates to clinch the nomination last week, but Mr. Sanders has declined to end his campaign. He has contended that he could persuade enough superdelegates, the party leaders who have overwhelmingly backed Mrs. Clinton, to switch their support to him by arguing that he would be the stronger candidate against Donald J. Trump, the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

That plan became more improbable last week as high-profile Democrats supported Mrs. Clinton. President Obama endorsed her on Thursday, calling her the most qualified candidate ever to seek the White House and imploring Democrats to unite behind her. Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts also endorsed Mrs. Clinton. Senator Jeff Merkley of Oregon, the only senator to endorse Mr. Sanders, told CNN on Friday that he now supports Mrs. Clinton.

(snip)

On Sunday, he gathered with about 20 key supporters and advisers at his home in Burlington, Vt., to discuss how to proceed.

“We are going to take our campaign to the convention with the full understanding that we are very good at arithmetic and that we know, you know, who has the received the most votes up to now,” Mr. Sanders said after the meeting, standing on his front lawn with his wife, Jane. Among the dozen or so people who attended the gathering were Benjamin T. Jealous, a former president of the N.A.A.C.P.; Congressman Raúl M. Grijalva of Arizona; Nina Turner, a former Ohio state senator; and Bill McKibben, the environmentalist and author.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/us/politics/bernie-sanders-campaign.html

[masmdu]

77. The 3 trump voters I knew

Personally in '16 we're all Bernie supporters until he was no longer an option.

[W_HAMILTON]

81. Yeah, because Sanders was just a placeholder for the anti-Hillary vote.

Zero chance they would have voted for Sanders had he actually won the nomination. Plenty of evidence points to this, including the fact that Sanders did WORSE in the 2020 primary -- even though he and his people literally wrote the rules of the game so as to prevent """rigging""" -- because he was seen as the frontrunner to win the nomination for a short time there. When he became the candidate they needed to beat rather than the candidate running AGAINST the candidate they needed to beat, the bro types abandoned him real quick.

Pretty much the same situation we saw in Haley vs. Trump in the Republican primary this year: plenty of crossover votes for Haley, not because they wanted her to win the presidency, but because they wanted her to beat Trump.

[betsuni]

88. Yes, he lost about 30% of former support in 2020 (had been anti-Hillary vote, not pro-Sanders).

[masmdu]

210. Except that is not what they said.

They would have voted for Sanders according to them.

[W_HAMILTON]

214. Yeah, because that's what they always say.

The better question would be what have they done to show they support other Democrats and/or anything Democrats stand for?

What did they like about Sanders that they didn't like about any other Democrat?

What overlap do they think exists between Sanders and Trump?

[relayerbob]

78. Hardly

[boston bean]

89. Ah, no. I have a memory of not too distant history. He may owe us all one.

That doesn’t mean he isn’t right about some things. But he is not someone I hold in high regard.

[Bluethroughu]

95. I've got a lot of love for him, he's been fighting the

Good fight since he was the mayor of Burlington. Full Respect, he does not back down.

[33taw]

101. I do not owe Bernie anything. He lost in the primary.

He had some good ideas, but his ego would not let go.

Move on.

[awesomerwb1]

102. Hell no

I mean, HELL no.

[Keepthesoulalive]

103. No I don't owe Bernie anything

He picked a bunch of losers for his campaign. He did not have a plan for all his lofty ideas. The senate
Requires compromise and horse trading. Bernie is good as a voice in the wilderness and that is what he is a voice .

[Botany]

108. No

Hell no

[Oopsie Daisy]

109. LOL 🙄

[RandiFan1290]

112. I blame most of the Bernie hatred on antisemitism. nt

Last edited Tue Dec 17, 2024, 06:04 AM - Edit history (1)

A hit dog will holler!

[Happy Hoosier]

126. O RLY? Any actual evidence of that? NT

[Oopsie Daisy]

202. Great question! I'm equally curious.

[JI7]

113. Sanders was used by grifters to hurt democrats

He only has slogans and is unable to discuss how to get things done.

Elizabeth Warren has actual plans and understanding of the issues. If people actually saw these issues as thr most important they would have supported her but she got little support.

[beemerphill]

114. YES !!!

I was a Bernie Bro, and could never understand why the Democratic Party didn't want him to run for Pres. He would have pissed off the Good Old Boys like no one before or after. That's the way politics works I guess.

[question everything]

192. Umm because he is not a Democrat? Did not have the integrity to switch registration the way he has been doing

in Vermont?

[Vinca]

115. I'm afraid I can't forgive Bernie for his latest trashing of Democrats. Right after the election he came out railing

about all the things Democrats should have done for working class people. Meanwhile, Democrats had put HIM in a senior leadership position and it was up to HIM to bring about policy changes. Now he's railing about Hunter's pardon. Just STFU. He might as well be running ads for Republicans.

[LauraInLA]

153. Exactly.

[Shrek]

118. What exactly are we apologizing for? n/t

[iemanja]

119. Criticizing him for supporting RFK Jr?

I suppose we're meant to get on board with supporting RFK jr for head of HHS.

[Lucky Luciano]

123. He called out RFK as having crazy ideas and is very dangerous.

[iemanja]

127. He also supports his views on the food industry

You’d have to ask Bernie how he reconciles those opposing views.


The Bullwark thinks Bernie will support RFK jr for HHS.

[Lucky Luciano]

130. The food industry does contribute to obesity.

Most scientists would back that notion. Broken clock and all with RFK there aside from his raw milk craziness.

[iemanja]

134. So you support RFK jr for HHS too?

Or you will if Bernie does?

Do you support Bernie’s comments on Musk too?

[Lucky Luciano]

136. Hell the fuck no

RFK jr is crazy and will get many killed.
If musk wants to cut the defense budget, sure. Everything else he wants to cut is probably terrible. Bernie is calling Elon’s bluff on the defense spending. They will not cut defense. We Democrats have always wanted to cut defense spending.

[Lucky Luciano]

121. Reading this thread, it appears the Democrats have an excellent chance of continuing to lose.

[iemanja]

128. Why on earth

Would you imagine DU has anything to do with whether Democrats win or lose?

[Lucky Luciano]

133. Seems like many want to keep doing the same thing.

The DNC likely will as well.

[iemanja]

135. Then there is the fact

That you judge electoral success in a presidential election by fealty to a single senator in a very small state.

[Lucky Luciano]

138. We lost more than the presidential election.

Every demographic went wrong. We lost 18-29 year old males outright. The Latinos swung hard for his lowness although his lowness didn’t win them outright. That’s crazy. If you want to keep up the same strategy, good luck. Bernie’s style can win. AOC’s style can win.

[LauraInLA]

155. I think there are huge differences between AOC and Sanders. She's a better politician, firstly. If she can

develops and promotes serious plans, she will do well. I’d see her as more like Elizabeth Warren, who also beats Sanders in the specifics/plans department.

P.S. AOC is not currently throwing Democrats under the bus, unlike Sanders. And she IS, in fact, a Democratic — willing to put her money where her mouth is, unlike Sanders.

[Lucky Luciano]

159. I don't care if he call himself a democrat.

He is clearly focused on an agenda that is on our side and that is all that matters to me.

AOC was and is very inspired by him.

[iemanja]

212. His Style?

What does that mean? What is AOC’s “style”?

There was a great deal wrong with the party in the 2024 elections. Bernie was irrelevant to any of it. The party’s problems run far deeper than personalities or “style.”

If you want someone in a GE, they need to win a primary, which means their supporters need to get their asses to the polls. That’s something Bernie couldn’t quite manage. Perhaps AOC can do better.

[Happy Hoosier]

125. Nope. He helped create this mess AFAIC. NT

[MrsCoffee]

140. That is the truth.

If anyone deserves an apology, it’s not him.

[Oopsie Daisy]

204. You and I think a lot alike.

[Ursus Rex]

132. Can you share some specifics?

I agree that he's been an inspiration and light of the Left for a while, but what exactly did we do that rates an apology?

[Scrivener7]

143. Oh, for fuck's sake. Go on ahead if you feel you need to.

[Klarkashton]

146. He has gotten really pissy about the Hunter pardon.

[LexVegas]

150. ...

[RandySF]

152. No

[maxsolomon]

154. Yeah no.

WTF is a "public apology"? From ALL of us?

Sorry, he's not my Senator and I never voted for him in the Primary.

[jalan48]

157. But he wagged his finger.

[LizBeth]

168. In womens face, when they spoke while he told them to sit down and shut up, dont use woman card.

[jalan48]

177. He told Hillary to sit down and shut up? I missed that one.

[LizBeth]

162. He owes women an apology. 2016, never forget, never forgive....

[TrunKated]

167. Hell NO!

His misogyny only helped get Rump elected.

[BannonsLiver]

170. You can be in charge of all of that.

[mdmc]

183. Bernie Sanders and Jimmy Carter!

[Baitball Blogger]

185. He's the reason I stepped up and declared as a Democrat.

Even though I've voted for Democrats my entire life.

[JustAnotherGen]

188. I can't relate to him

He's like the other side of the coin of Cornel West.

[sheshe2]

191. An apology?

Nah.

[Jit423]

194. That may be but he still help defeat HRC. I can never forget that and Trump's election is constant reminder. nt

[Oneironaut]

196. Bernie Sanders would have won in 2016, 2020, and 2024.

I stand by that statement.

[emulatorloo]

200. Yeah, no. He didn't even come close to winning a primary. Shitty advisors, poor campaigns that never

appealed beyond his base. I was a Bernie supporter in 2016, but the psycho amateurs Senator Sanders hired over the years to create his campaigns are kooks and abject failures (Comic Store Man, David Sirota, Nina Turner, Brie-Brie).

They either couldn’t or refused to build a winning coalition of voters.

[Oopsie Daisy]

205. 😂🤪🙄🤣😅

I stand by that statement.

[emulatorloo]

203. Bernie Sanders owes me an apology for hiring lying lunatics like David Sirota, Paul Manafort, and Brie-Brie.

[Jack Valentino]

213. Trying to rile up all the rabid "Bernie haters"?? It WORKED...

[Oopsie Daisy]

220. "Rabid Bernie Haters"??? --- Please. Spare me. I don't see anyone here who matches that description.

[gemini_liberal]

219. No

He's a politician. He's correct about some things, wrong about others. Not everything he gets credit for saying are even things otherwise unsaid by Democrats.

He is a decent public figure and clearly his state approves of him but he has a lot of obvious flaws and he's not the magical messiah some believe he is.

He isn't owed jack. No politician is.

[stillcool]

226. jeebus...

that had to have come from a far away place. Can't imagine

[LiberaBlueDem]

227. yes we do

Go Bernie

[mr715]

234. No

No.

[Ping Tung]

235. I happily voted for Bernie in the 2016 primary where he won with 72%.

Washington went very Blue and a bit socialist that year.