Things You Didn't Know about Greenland

[MineralMan]

Probably pretty much everything about Greenland is something you didn't know.

The USA actually has a military base in northern Greenland. It used to be called Thule Air Base, but is now Pituffik Space Base. There are about 150 Space Force personnel there, plus a few hundred contract workers. You haven't heard of that base either, probably, because not much goes on there. The new name is often misread as "Pity Fuck Space Base," but that's not nice. It's a joke, just like the US Space Force.

Although Greenland is the largest non-continental island on the planet, it's total population is only about 56,900. Why? Because most of Greenland is uninhabited, since it's covered with the largest ice sheet on land on that planet. Nobody lives there, because, well, nobody can live there.

Trump wants to "buy" Greenland. Well, that has been tried before. "In 1867, United States Secretary of State William H. Seward worked with former senator Robert J. Walker to explore the possibility of buying Greenland and, perhaps, Iceland. Opposition in Congress ended this project." (Wikipedia). Congress was wise. "Following World War II, the United States developed a geopolitical interest in Greenland and in 1946 offered to buy the island from Denmark for $100,000,000; the Danish rejected the offer." (Wikipedia). No thanks, said Denmark.

Why buy Greenland? Well, it's rich in mineral resources. Or so the story goes. Problem is that the nasty weather there, along with all that ice, makes mining those resources impractical. There aren't really any good reasons to want to buy Greenland. It's not important strategically, either, despite being up there in the arctic. I don't believe that Donald Trump has ever been there. Nobody really goes there. It's not a nice place to visit, frankly

On the other hand, it's big. If you want to own a big chunk of land on the Earth, Greenland might be something of a bargain, but you'd just be buying bragging rights. The resources still aren't economically viable to exploit, despite global climate change melting some of that enormous ice sheet.

Still, Donald Trump doesn't make any sense most of the time, anyhow. Greenland isn't Denmark's property now, anyhow. It's an autonomous territory of Denmark. The Greenlanders DO NOT WANT to be owned by Trump or the United States. What's he going to do? Invade Greenland? Seems pretty stupid to me. I don't think that's going to happen.

Now that that's settled, everyone can go back to their Christmas holiday festivities and stop fretting about Greenland. It's not going to become the next US territory. Nobody wants that, except Donald J. Trump.

[Walleye]

1. Maybe Trump envisions setting up deportation camps in Greenland. That would make migrants even more miserable.

[MineralMan]

3. By the time those camps could be built, Trump's term of office would be over.

And I don't know where they'd build them anyhow.

[Walleye]

62. It's just a right wing, wet dream

[Mr.Bill]

26. And I bet he will make Greenland

pay for them, too.

[paleotn]

53. In what? Walrus tusks and seal blubber?

[Walleye]

63. 😆

[greatauntoftriplets]

2. A cousin of mine visited Greenland a while back.

It was part of an Arctic cruise that also visited Iceland and I forget where else. She preferred Iceland.

[MineralMan]

4. Iceland is Tropical in Comparison to Greenland.

[greatauntoftriplets]

16. Plus, Iceland has things to do other than look at ice and bleak landscapes.

[Ocelot II]

5. There's another reason for the interest in Greenland: the opening of the Northwest Passage

and other far north shipping routes due to climate change. One of these routes goes along the coast of Greenland, and if Greenland were controlled by the US, there could be a big fat source of revenue for maintaining the passage (like owning the Panama Canal). Also, controlled shipping routes would be to the benefit of - guess who - Elon Musk, who needs to ship Tesla parts from China to elsewhere in the world (which is also the main reason for the kerfuffle over the Panama Canal). Right now he has to use Panama and the Suez, but the Arctic routes are shorter. Trump hasn't got a clue, but President Musk certainly does.

[MineralMan]

6. I hadn't thought about that.

Still...

[Disaffected]

9. "revenue for maintaining the passage"?

The waters between Canada-Greenland and Europe-Greenland are international, no? Same for "controlling shipping routes".

[Ocelot II]

10. President Musk would figure out a way to make money from it.

Of course these are international waters that can't be cut off by any country, but maintaining bases and facilities on Greenland (refueling, etc.) would make his shipping ventures more lucrative. And since the passage still freezes over sometimes, he could charge other shippers for clearing the route. He's rich enough to put together a fleet of ice-breakers for that purpose.

[Disaffected]

22. Sure, there may be a business opportunity there.

Hard to say what the potential returns would be though.

As far as the "passage" goes though, do the waters on either side of Greenland (at least up to the eastern entrance to the NW passage) typically freeze during winter or is it just the NW passage itself? If just the NW passage, then it becomes a matter of Canadian waters.

[LeftInTX]

38. Trying to envision this NW shipping passage? Would it go up through the north pole? Between the Bering Strait?

A route from Asia?

But then, they could just ship to Alaska, which we already own.

I guess passage from Asia to Greenland would be advantageous to someone who is shipping goods from Asia to Europe.

It also wouldn't provide an advantage from USA to Europe route though. Except possibly a port in southern Greenland.

[KT2000]

60. It makes an alternative to

Panama Canal, or rather controls shipping through the Arctic which will happen buy either the US or Russia.

[KT2000]

61. Here is the Navy's Blueprint for the Arctic

the original was written in 2018, and was updated in 2021

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/05/2002560338/-1/-1/0/ARCTIC%20BLUEPRINT%202021%20FINAL.PDF/ARCTIC%20BLUEPRINT%202021%20FINAL.PDF

[Delmette2.0]

70. Then let Musk use his own money to buy it.

If Trump is such a con man, he sure doesn't know how to spot one like Musk.

[Oneear]

7. Maybe Donald J. Trump wanted to buy it for Elon Musk The Boring Company

They do have Minerals to be brought to the Surface

[bucolic_frolic]

8. Trump would make a go of it though

Greenland Uber Alles

[MineralMan]

12. Trump never makes a "go" of anything.

He fires stuff up, and then it falls apart later. That's his pattern.

[bucolic_frolic]

20. Of course I know that

I was just boosting the Greenland song.

[MineralMan]

23. And a good song it is, too.

[Disaffected]

11. Another thing a lot of folks (Trump included) probably don't know is

that Greenland is not nearly as large as it appears to be on a lot of maps (i.e. the Mercator projection). On such maps Greenland looks almost as large as North America whereas it is actually much smaller (about 24.7 million sq Kilometers vs 2.2).

If that were pointed out to Trump, maybe he would loose interest in it.

[MineralMan]

14. Yes, that's very true.

However, pointing things out to Trump never works. "I can see it on the map. It's big, I tell you. Big!"

[Disaffected]

25. Bigly!!

[mgardener]

52. He would

Redraw the boundaries with his Sharpie

[Hekate]

13. 🎄 TY for the interesting info. Every ttime I hear the name Greenland I remember an old whaling song...

Oh Greenland is a dreadful place,
A land that’s never green
Where there’s ice & snow & the whale-fishes blow
And daylight’s seldom seen, brave boys…

Thule always sounded like a reference to a Norse saga, to me. Pituffik, not so much.

I think Mango Mussolini has lost his mind and it’s getting worse. What the aitch is this about the Panama Canal, and who puts these ideas into his mushy brain?

🎄🎄Regardless — happy holidays of your choice, MM, and may you and yours have a happy & healthy New Year. 🌈🌞💕

[MineralMan]

18. Thanks.

I served in the USAF for four years, starting in 1965. I remember that getting assigned to Thule Air Base in Greenland was the kiss of death in the USAF. The only worse place was Shemya Island Air Station off Alaska. That was a place I might have been assigned, but thank goodness that didn't happen.

As for holiday celebrations, I embrace all religious holidays. More excuses to eat good food and drink good wine.

[odins folly]

39. Thule was my second assignment in the AF

I was there 84-85, not a horrible place, I actually had a good time there. Got married to anothr AF member.

Also did 93-94 in the south east of Iceland, had a better time there, got divorced from aforementioned AF member....

[OrangeJoe]

56. Shemya

My dad was in the Army Air Corps in WWII. He was stationed in Shemya. Other than shooting ducks it was quite boring and cold.

As adults we learned that he volunteered to be in the mess, which given the fact that he rarely set foot in the kitchen seemed odd to say the least. He explained that upon arrival on the island he quickly figured out that the mess hall was the only place that was warm all the time. He also said the cooks played poker for steaks for their unit. He was always a pretty good poker player so his guys appreciated that.

[MineralMan]

57. I felt lucky not to be sent there. There's also some fishing going on

by those stationed there. That's nice, but it's about as isolated a site as I can imagine. I was at a "remote" base in Turkey, but there was a city just down the road, so...I explored, learned some Turkish, and enjoyed my time there. The base, though, had only about 400 people stationed there - all men. Not as interesting.

[OrangeJoe]

68. WWII

Pops as an 18 yer old kid from Wyoming so anywhere was a change. He said when he first enlisted he, like every red blooded American boy in WWII, had visions of being a hero. Afterwards as a grown adult he admitted that cold and boredom for a short year, he enlisted right after high school in the summer of 1944, was probably better than combat. He did qualify for the GI Bill so he got a college education and a successful career that let him live at a standard of living he could only have dreamed about as a poor boy in the Depression.

[eppur_se_muova]

33. "Thule" came to us from the ancient Greeks, via Latin ...

Thule (/ˈθjuːliː/[1] Ancient Greek: Θούλη, romanized: Thúlē; Latin: Thūlē also spelled as Thylē[2]) is the most northerly location mentioned in ancient Greek and Roman literature and cartography. First written of by the Greek explorer Pytheas of Massalia (modern-day Marseille, France) in about 320 BC, it was often described by later writers as an island north of the British Isles. Modern interpretations have included Orkney, Shetland, Northern Scotland, the Faroe Islands, or Iceland. Other potential locations are the island of Saaremaa (Ösel) in Estonia,[3][4] or the Norwegian island of Smøla.[5]

In classical and medieval literature, ultima Thule (Latin "farthest Thule" ) acquired a metaphorical meaning of any distant place located beyond the "borders of the known world".[6] By the Late Middle Ages and the early modern period, the Greco-Roman Thule was often identified with the real Iceland or Greenland. Sometimes Ultima Thule was a Latin name for Greenland, when Thule was used for Iceland. By the 19th century, however, Thule was frequently identified with Norway, Denmark, the whole of Scandinavia, one of the larger Scottish islands, the Faroes, or several of those locations.[7][8]

Thule formerly gave its name to real places. In 1910, the explorer Knud Rasmussen established a missionary and trading post in north-western Greenland, which he named "Thule" (later Qaanaaq). It later gave its name to the northernmost United States Air Force base, Thule Air Base, in northwest Greenland. With the transfer of the base to the United States Space Force, its name was changed to Pituffik Space Base on April 6, 2023.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule

[Hekate]

35. Very interesting -- thanks!

[dobleremolque]

15. A favorite Greenland story ......

The colonel who has just landed his Air Force C-141 for refueling at Thule AFB, didn't like the lackadaisical attitude of the enlisted airman who was servicing the aircraft, so he upbraided the man and hinted at some form of military discipline.

"Sir," said the airman, "I just got busted down to airman-basic when they took my one stripe; I'm stationed in Thule, Greeland; and my job is to empty the sewage holding tanks on aircraft like yours. Just what do you think you can do to me?"

[MineralMan]

19. LOL!

[Old Okie]

72. The Brass

Think in my case it was a Major who popped into our firebase in Cambodia where we had psp walkways over the mud and who complained about our muddy boots; we promised to do better and he flew away; they don't have a clue.

[Wicked Blue]

17. Someone should tell TFG that if he goes there and occupies Greenland

it will all belong to him.

But only for as long as he stays there.

[MineralMan]

21. Great Idea!

[love_katz]

24. Pity Fuck Space Base

That's a good image and name for Orange Pustule's empty echoing cranium.

[marybourg]

27. And what used to be called "permafrost" is melting.

[MineralMan]

28. When that happens, you get a swamp.

We have a huge one of those that encompasses the northern half of Minnesota.

Bogs and mosquitoes. Not nice.

[Yavin4]

29. Climate change may make Greenland's weather more hospitable.

There are probably oil reserves that could be uncovered.

[MineralMan]

30. Not for quite some time.

[chowmama]

34. Trump needs to be reminded that 'natural causes', heavily impacted by a lousy lifestyle, will end him long before that.

How long does he think he's going to live, anyway? Does he actually believe the press releases about his health? Nobody else does. Just look at him.

And it's not like he actually gives a rat's ass about his offspring or their inheritance. If someone doesn't actually benefit him personally, they don't matter. They're just the useful tools he keeps around, as long as they're useful. Only as long as they're useful. Ivanka knows it, but I'm not sure about the boys. (If Tiffany hasn't figured it out by now, she's dumb as a bag of hammers.) If they want any legacy, they need to hide the money now.

[paleotn]

67. We will all be long, long, long dead by then.

Or there will soon be ocean front property in Gainesville.

[jayschool2013]

31. Narsaarsuk

Narsaarsuk is an abandoned settlement on the edge of Bylot Sound in northern Greenland near Pituffik Space Base. The site of the former settlement is contaminated with plutonium after the 1968 Thule Air Base B-52 crash.

[MineralMan]

32. I remember that crash. Thanks for the reminder!

[LeftInTX]

45. I just read about that crash when googling the base.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Thule_Air_Base_B-52_crash


It's funny how this stuff happens and you never hear about it! I was only 11, so not much of a newspaper reader, and not a "behind the scenes" reader, but would watch the evening news etc. In HS, we often discussed nuclear arms proliferation, however. We didn't discuss this accident, nor did we discuss several others that I learned about.

Heck, I didn't know about all this stuff until I watched Trinity and Beyond. Highly recommend this documentary:

&ab_channel=atomcentral

&ab_channel=atomcentral

[2naSalit]

36. I learned...

About the airbase there, since the early 1960s, because my dad was stationed there for a spell.

[maxsolomon]

37. MFer doesn't want Greenland.

He wants everyone (the media, you, me) to talk about him wanting Greenland, or more basically, just talk about him. Good or bad, just talk about him. Every fucking day of our lives.

His ego need is all consuming. Someday, he will die.

[bronxiteforever]

40. Greenland's foreign policy and defense is led by Denmark

Greenland’s new foreign-, security-, and defense policy strategy stakes a course within defense and diplomacy, while sharing visions of how its international relations can be improved through commerce and communication. From a Danish perspective, the strategy will make it easier to find common ground between Denmark, Greenland and the Faroe Islands – altogether constituting the Kingdom of Denmark – on how to address the security policy dynamics in the Arctic.

… Since Greenland has not taken over defense policy, the strategy can get away with a general call to Denmark and Denmark’s allies that Greenland preferably does not want more military capabilities, and if they cannot be avoided, they should preferably be limited to surveillance capabilities without the ability to defeat hostile platforms. This gives an indication of how Greenland will position itself in future discussions – including the next Danish defense agreement, in which Greenland will be involved – but it is unclear how Greenland will position itself if the security policy situation necessitates more potent capabilities.

https://www.thearcticinstitute.org/greenland-stakes-course-defense-diplomacy/

Note Denmark was a founding member of NATO and still is in NATO.

[MineralMan]

42. Yes. But Trump is always looking for a way to diss NATO.

He may add something having to do with Greenland and Denmark in his next term. Perhaps that's what he's thinking about.

[bronxiteforever]

47. He couldn't even build a wall. His foreign

policy is just drivel. He will screw us over in every way in domestic affairs, but he is so out of his league with foreign policy I just don’t take any of these statements of his seriously. The real danger is that whatever security apparatus we will have, it will be asleep in a time of danger.

I totally agree with you that war with Denmark is out of the realm of probabilities.

[MineralMan]

48. Wait! Didn't he "build that wall?"

He kept saying that he was building it, didn't he? Hmm...

[bronxiteforever]

49. lol!

[thucythucy]

41. Greenland also has one of the highest rates of youth suicide

in the world.

In fact, it has the highest overall suicide rate in the world:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_Greenland

All the same, it's visiting there has been on my travel bucket list forever, having already been to Iceland, Norway and Sweden. Though if I ever do travel again Finland would be more of a priority.

[Lulu KC]

71. I found it interesting that June is the peak suicide month

The endless light can throw off the seratonin balance. Not what I would have thought, as I sit here with my "happy light" pointed at me all morning starting in late September.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090507190558.htm

[chouchou]

43. Donald Trump wants to build a casino there. A few months later...

..he can brag that he bankrupted two casinos.

[MineralMan]

46. ROFL!

[chouchou]

50. Thanks for the post. I actually got off of my "Mind-Ass" and learned a few things.

I would have thought that Greenland had 250,000...to 450,000. Silly me!

[MineralMan]

54. That surprised me, too.

I don't know exactly why, but I was more in the same ballpark as you were.

[Vinca]

44. I think Trump is just doing his best Putin imitation. The truth is, he couldn't find Greenland on a map for

a million-dollar prize. And he probably thinks the Panama Canal begins in Panama City, Florida. Fucking moron.

[Polybius]

51. You mean it's colder than Minnesota?

[MineralMan]

59. I expect so.

While it can get cold here in the Twin Cities, it's not Greenland, for sure.

[Buns_of_Fire]

55. He's pining for the fjords. nt

[KT2000]

58. Shipping lanes

the US Navy has been preparing since 2018 to control the Arctic shipping lanes. They have been preparing for climate change that will open the shipping lanes. The US has a base in Greenland which is strategically located to the opening of the lanes. Russia has about 50 bases in other locations.

Here is the US Navy's strategic plan.

https://media.defense.gov/2021/Jan/05/2002560338/-1/-1/0/ARCTIC%20BLUEPRINT%202021%20FINAL.PDF/ARCTIC%20BLUEPRINT%202021%20FINAL.PDF

[djacq]

64. Dial back the insults

I was assigned at Thule AFB in 2009. There are good men and women, serving their country. The missile warning, space surveillance, and satellite control network is not only a vital mission to the U.S., but to our allies as well. They are in a unique and sometimes harsh environment doing a 24/7 job.

I ask that those here on DU please read about the mission.

[crickets]

65. K&R for post and discussion. nt

[paleotn]

66. We're not very good tenants. '68 broken arrow. B-52 carrying 4 nukes crashed at Thule

We weren't even supposed to have nukes in or near Danish territory. Then we just wanted to leave the radioactive mess to sink into the fjord. Danes were, oh hell no, clean up YOUR damn mess. So we did. Bad tenants. Very bad tenants.

Still strategically important due to it's geography. Good spot for a Space Force base. Still can't type Space Force without thinking Spaaace Ghoooost!



And part of the GIUK gap. Natural choke points for anyone trying to enter the North Atlantic from the Arctic, like from Russian Northern Fleet bases around Murmansk. Old play ground of mine back in my navy days. Those were fun times.

[Noodleboy13]

69. According to the Pogues: Greenland is a barren place, a place that bears no green

But there's ice and there's snow and the whale fishes blow. And the sunlight is rarely seen lads, the sunlight is rarely seen.
I played Bodhráin to this Irish sea shanty