Is this correct? Shooter's mom owned assault rifles???

[Sarah Ibarruri]

What the hell???? What does a mom or anyone with a FAMILY need with an assault rifle? In fact, what does ANYONE need with an assault rifle?

[Duer 157099]

1. Maybe she was afraid of her son?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

3. So she left the guns there, available to him?

Makes no sense to me.

[Duer 157099]

5. I didn't say it was smart

but it could explain why she had them

[kestrel91316]

21. That would be negligent. But some DUers tell me it's wrong to

place any blame on her even if she was.

If she failed to secure her guns and ANYONE got ahold of them to murder, she is responsible in part.

Gun owners need to start to fear the consequences of their irresponsible gun ownership.

[OnionPatch]

29. I've been thinking the same thing.

I can't imagine leaving a weapon like that where anyone, especially a kid/youth, could get it. Aren't there laws that require gun owners to keep their guns secure from others? If not, there should be. It seems like a lot of these shootings happen when some young guy either gets a gun illegally or takes his parents'.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

72. If there were unforgiving laws that punished those who let their guns out of their hands

We would see a lot less of this. Laws are needed with required serving of time.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

45. Laws need to be passed that if you own a gun and someone else gets their hands on it...

you go automatically to prison, do not pass go, do not receive probation.

[nadinbrzezinski]

92. Some states sort of do that

Your way out, call the cops as soon as you find it missing.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

93. They do. I think the onus, however, ought to be on the gun owner.

If gun owners choose to own them, they should be made completely responsible, no exceptions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

97. If somebody steals your gun

As long as you tell the cops as soon as possible, in any society, that releases of liability. You don't, well face the music. Some guns are stolen in the commission of a robbery. What if, as it often happens, it was used against the owner during the robbery? By your logic, assuming the owner survives, now jail time too?

We call that knee jerk extreme reaction.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

98. This is the way I see it...

If you purchase plutonium (assuming it were freely for sale), it's your responsibility to make damned sure it doesn't get into the hands of someone who could do something really interesting with it. Same with guns. I see ownership of guns about as vital and important as the ownership of plutonium. People in countries where guns are not permitted still seem to function. Here? Here there are people who would DIE (or think they would) if they couldn't own a gun, as if a gun were running water they needed to survive.

[nadinbrzezinski]

100. Why you should be happy that a gun is reported when stolen

Believe it or not, it is not plutonium.

This is as knee jerk absolutist as the gun nut who tells me that they have no need to report a stolen weapon on fourth amendment grounds, I kid you not.

I would be willing to limit the ammo a gun can put through, per magazine. That is a technical problem and it would require modification of guns.

I have no issue with registration.

I would go as far as licensing

But as long as a stolen weapon is reported, fine.

Oh and once smart gun technology becomes very reliable I want to mandate at least all modern weapons to be back fitted to the technology. That would make this issue pretty much mute...

[FarPoint]

68. Hell........

she trained him too! Took her mentally ill son to the gun range and taught him to shoot efficiently.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

71. I'm telling you, gun fetishists are complete nutjobs. nt

[exboyfil]

78. Sounds like Sarah Conners from The Terminator

An opportunity to bond with her disturbed son.

[Suich]

27. That was my thought. n/t

[mzmolly]

51. But an assault rifle? If she was afraid,

he should have been helped.

[gateley]

2. I THINK all the guns were registered to her, yes.

[FarCenter]

4. Yes, as well as the father. But they are still matching the serial numbers.

ABC NEWS has learned that Lanza's mother had numerous weapons legally registered to her, including a Glock and a Sig Sauer however federal authorities say they cannot confirm at this time that they are the same weapons used as they have not completed their own serial number check. Nancy Lanza also owned a Bushmaster rifle - a semi-automatic carbine chambered for a .223 caliber round. However they cannot confirm whether it was the same weapon that appears to have been used at the scene.

ABC NEWS has learned that Peter Lanza, the gunman's father, also had a number of weapons legally registered in New Jersey, however it is unknown what makes or models and whether there is any link between these weapons and the crime.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=8920448

[Sarah Ibarruri]

7. I'd say 'live by the gun, die by the gun' except the children

were taken because of stupid-ass gun owners. Sick bastard gun owners.

[Walter White]

9. The reason why I rather have a gun

because I'd rather be able to protect myself from the criminals and or mentally unstable that will do harm to me or my family.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. WTF??? I think I'd better not respond to this insane post of yours

With 20 kids dead and you're saying this sh*t?

I sure as hell hope you're being facetious.

[progressoid]

25. That troll is no more.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

43. Phew! Merci. nt

[UtahLib]

20. You really stepped in it with this post, didn't you? n/t

[SheilaT]

73. And how will you keep a family member

from getting hold of the gun, killing you, and going off and killing a lot of others.

I'm sure that if we could go back three days and speak with Nancy Lanza she'd offer the same excuse that you just did.

Guns in a household are vastly more likely to be used to kill a family member than an intruder. Vastly. Don't know the exact statistics, but it's there.

[Herlong]

107. You'd have better odds of winning a lottery

The chances of you being able to whip out you gun at the right moment is slim. They are there to do you harm. You just own guns.

[Saboburns]

15. Listen, I don't own any guns

I have not owned, nor even handled any Guns in nearly twenty years. But I have a problem with you blaming all gun owners for this tragedy. That's just not right.

Been a helluva lot of this here today.

And it harkens back to last week when it was my fault there are so many rapes in this country because I am Male.

I submit to you that nearly all gun owners here in America are lawful, normal people. There is a huge preponderance of DU'ers today who claim these people are gun nuts. Who fondle their weapons, and are all paranoid weirdos.

For us to make meaningful strides to eliminate these tragic shootings, we must acknowledge that blaming all gun owners, as you have done, does not help. It hinders honest attempts to make positive change.

I understand the emotional impact this shooting has on all of us. This massacre has made us all raw. More so than at any other time that I remember. But I am tired of being blamed for this shooting. I'm tired of the strawman attacks, that will no doubt follow. I want tougher gun laws, I want Federal Legislation.

[WinkyDink]

19. You know what? Many drunk drivers never get into accidents. As Mr. Pitt says, "STFU."

[Saboburns]

31. Mr. Pitt is the last person I'd care to listen to in this matter.

As I read his post that called for all DU Members who disagree with him in this matter be purged from this website. Now there's a Bedrock Liberal principle. And I certainly do not remember a time in this web site's history where discussion is negated and replaced with group thought. You may endorse Lock Step Thinking. I do not. I will not.

As I said, this is an extremely raw time. You see, I teach Kindergarten.

I have high hopes this will lead to credible Federal Gun Control Legistation.

But blaming all gun owners for this crime is knee jerk at best. Its dishonest, disingenuous, and intellectually lazy.

[Voice for Peace]

64. I agree with you -- the discussion must move beyond who's right and wrong about guns,

to what can realistically be done, immediately, to change
the course in our country.

I have no idea what that is but I know the polarization
doesn't help.

[UtahLib]

23. If you own no guns, how are you being blamed for this shooting?

By the way, no one here blames all males for the number of rapes in this country but you do make yourself appear exceptionally defensive by mentioning the subject when replying to this post.

[Saboburns]

34. I did not say I was being blamed for this shooting.

So far in this thread ALL gun owners are being blamed. Guilt by association has always been chickenshit.

DU'ers are spitting the term 'Gun Nut' like Ann Oulter spits the term 'Liberal'.

[UtahLib]

36. Nitpicking I guess

but you did say in your first post "I am tired of being blamed for this shooting". I agree that because of the day's tragic events most posters have been very hard on gun owners in what I would call a visceral reaction.

I find it sad and frustrating that the NRA and the teabaggers have been able to whip some people into such a frenzied fear that they truly can be called gun nuts. Although I will never understand the fascination with guns, I don't believe all gun owners fit into that category and hope we can have a rational conversation and resolution to the escalating violence in our country. If that includes stronger gun control, so be it.

Peace

[Union Scribe]

28. You're calling the dead woman a "sick bastard"?

And somehow she had it coming? "Live by the gun..."?

[Squinch]

104. Until yesterday, she was just another "responsible gun owner." Like all those other

"responsible gun owners" out there.

Then her responsible guns killed 20 children and 8 adults including herself.

This is what became of the responsible ownership of these particular guns.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

44. how the fuck did this person

'live by the gun'??? how fucking calloused of you...

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

46. Automatic weapons in a home? That's not a home. That's an arsenal of war nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

47. oh horseshit...

she collected firearms... you don't know shit about her and yet she 'deserved' to die in your eyes. that is some serious fucked up shit.

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

49. Gun lovers and gun owners are a fucked up lot, and get shot routinely. I'm sick and tired of

gun lovers defending guns. This is not an unusual case. Gun owner gets shot by own gun. Stupid doesn't even begin to describe gun owners.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

50. nice job insulting a large percentage of people on this board

and I am glad you get to make the decision about who should live and die...

fuck off...

sp

[Sarah Ibarruri]

53. You didn't hear me say there aren't right wingers on DU, did you?

And in fact, there are. And yes, I'll repeat it for your pleasure - gun-lovers are one fucked up lot.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

55. and all people with guns are right-wingers...

right.

so, when someone thinks YOU'RE fucked up... do you deserve to die? how very Westboro Baptist of you...

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

63. No, not all. But MOST ARE. And the NRA is a Republican organization, and pro-gun laws are

initiated by Republicans, and I can go on.

Again, gun lovers are one fucked up lot.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

75. we're not talking about the NRA...

we're talking about a woman whom you know nothing about other than she liked to collect weapons. and you think it was just fine and dandy that she was killed. because you don't like that she had guns.

again, how very westboro baptist of you...

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

84. We're talking about ALL gun fetishists, including those whose greed makes them thirsty for blood. nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

90. ah, so it's not just this woman that deserved to die

but everyone who owns a gun... because you don't like it.

Sarah Ibarruri... proud member of the Westboro Baptist Church.

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

94. Since I'm not the one collecting human-killing weapons, I find it amusing that you'd compare me

and not gun owners to the Westboro Baptist Church, right wing extremist, gun-owning crowd.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

95. you're in the same camp

wishing death on those you do not deem worthy...

pot...meet kettle.

sP

[Sarah Ibarruri]

99. Me? Where did I wish death on someone? I do think you need a vacation. You've begun reading

things that aren't there. :::Twilight Zone music:::

Oh but of course! :::smacking forehead:::: You're a gun owner! I'd forgotten.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

110. You did suggest mutilation as the price for owning guns in another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1990791

[Sarah Ibarruri]

111. Ah, the word, "wish" has now become "suggest"

I think you'd better just drop it, or soon you'll be saying you completely misread my posts.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

112. Lets let others read your words and see what they think...

[Sarah Ibarruri]

114. Let's just have you crawl back into your gun fetish group and whine

Cheer up! I'll bet other gun fetishists are already there stroking their guns and doing heavy breathing.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

116. Another person hoist on their own petard

need some ointment for that butt hurt?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

117. Do tell, what are you a professor of? Target-painting? nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

118. Computer Science

Full professor in a California public university.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

119. You should know better! nt

[godai]

102. Large percentage? No

Loud in voice but small in numbers.

[Edweird]

80. heh

[shadowrider]

52. It was not an automatic weapon. It was a Bushmaster semi-auto rifle

The difference?

Automatic weapon = Pull the trigger and it fires until the magazine is empty
Semi-automatic = Pull the trigger, one shot

I'm not disputing or endorsing the merits, or lack thereof, of her owning one. Simply correcting your apparent misconception.

[SpartanDem]

66. She didn't own any automatic weapons

if you're AR-15 SEMI-automatic, which mean it shoots one bullet per pull of the trigger. Full automatic guns are very tightly regulated.

Civilian ownership of assault rifles or any other full-automatic firearm is tightly regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives under the National Firearms Act of 1934 as amended by Title II of the Gun Control Act of 1968. In addition, the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of 1986 halted the manufacture of assault rifles for the civilian market and currently limits legal civilian ownership to units produced and properly registered with the BATFE before May 1986. Some states have enacted laws against civilian possession of automatic weapons that override NFA clearance; Kansas, on the other hand, repealed its own state law against civilian ownership of assault rifles in July 2008.[24] Civilians may purchase semi-automatic versions of such firearms without requiring NFA clearance, although some states (including California and New Jersey) enforce their own restrictions and/or prohibitions on such weapons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_rifle#United_States

[godai]

8. Seems strange for the mother to own these weapons.

And a fatal decision on her part.

[kestrel91316]

22. Owning guns is like playing with fire. And gun owners always

say no one could have forseen any burns or prevented them.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

48. Exactly. Gun lovers are so convinced that owning guns will save them, but it does the opposite

The number of people that have gotten shot with their own guns is astounding - something we hear every day.

[hack89]

60. It is reported she like target shooting

AR-15's are very common in competitive shooting. Not really that strange - it is a big reason most people own them.

[godai]

65. Well, it got her killed. n/t

[fishwax]

6. I read a story quoting a neighbor saying she had a large gun collection -- I don't know if that's

where these later stories have gotten the information or if there is more to it. It may well be, but I'm hesitant to take such reporting at face value at this early stage ...

[lunasun]

14. Side Note: I lived next door to a women like that - had a large gun collection

whole family insane son shot BB guns through people's windows and killed animals too

If it was a big collection then the shooter was already living in gun culture

[ManiacJoe]

10. No assault rifle, but semi-auto carbines make great target rifles.

The ergonomics and modular design make getting the correct fit easy.

The correct question is, were the guns being properly stored? The results of the day suggest not.

[Remmah2]

12. Wasn't she divorced?

Possible problems w/her ex?

[FarCenter]

16. No, he's remarried, living in Stamford.

Appears to have moved on.

[Purveyor]

13. Has anyone heard a first name for 'mom and dad'? I haven't... eom

[lunasun]

17. #4 has both

[FarCenter]

18. Nancy J Lanza and Peter Lanza. Son Adam was the shooter. Other son Ryan in NJ not involved.

[Jennicut]

24. No idea really.

CT is not known as gun nut central but we do have some people like this.

[Glassunion]

26. I don't know about the rifle, the handguns yes.

If I am not mistaken she could not have had a registered "Assault Rifle", unless it was owned prior to a specific date and registered by another specific date going back to the early 90's.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

30. A number of unanswered questions about this

What all she owned, how it was stored, and why she had them. The three alone are fairly high end/expensive firearms, odd for someone on a teachers salary. Not a assault rifle, but still higher end, as were the handguns.

[Michigan Alum]

32. Unusual for a woman to own so many guns. It's usually a guy thing.

I could see it could be a bit more normal to see a woman who lives by herself to have one gun "for protection," but multiple guns, including assault weapons??

[ProgressiveProfessor]

35. I too am curious about that

Shooting is mostly a male sport, though the gender ratio is changing. Even so to find those kind of firearms is a bit odd unless the owner is a shooting enthusiast. I expect we will know more over time. I also expect that there will be more weapons found in the home. Every shooter I know has a .22LR rifle or handgun for plinking and target practice. I will be particularly interested to learn how they were stored and why she had them. Note that nothing identified to date is an assault rifle, including the Bushmaster.

[LisaL]

38. She was reportedly a gun collector.

So, likely there are other guns in the house.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

40. Lots of different stories out there

I would assume there are more, at minimum a .22LR

[Edweird]

81. Your sexist post is sexist fail.

[LisaL]

37. She was reportedly getting large amounts of alimony from her ex-husband.

So I don't think she worried about money.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

41. That has come out recently

He also was a shooter apparently

[Sarah Ibarruri]

42. Her hubby (or ex-hubby) was a tax lawyer working for a lucrative firm though PLUS

from what I heard, her hubby had a bazillion more semi-automatic weapons than she did. Apparently he's a weapon-lover. I'm sure he loved weapons when he was married to her, and maybe she developed that weapon-love.

I think people who love weapons should be required to have a finger shot off before they're allowed to start their collections. Maybe then they'll really understand weapons.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

57. What other rights would you require prior mutilation before exercising them?

Reporting on this event and its background has been markedly poor. That said it has now been reported that she was also shooting enthusiast. It will be interesting to see how the firearms were stored and how the son got access to them.

A while back I found out just how much our daughters knew of our secrets, including where the safe combo was stored when they were growing up.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

61. That's plenty. I honestly think gun lovers don't have a F clue and live in a fantasy

with their gun fetishism, in which they're some sort of gun-hero. A little required finger mutilation might snap them out of that fantasy.

[juajen]

86. By now you must know that she was not a teacher.

She had a large, expensive home in NewTown and had a healthy alimony payment from her wealthy husband. She might have also had a career. There is not a lot of info yet. But, she was not a teacher living on a teacher's salary.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

88. That has come out more recently

the media fail on this is tremendous...prior facts being invalidated hourly.

[HawkeyeLibkid]

39. Someone wasn't very careful

My question is who in the family DIDN'T know the kid was mentally unstable? Who would leave guns, locked up or not, or within reach of a mentally unstable young adult?

[hack89]

54. Apparently she was a target shooter

AR-15's are the standard rifle for competitive target shooting.

[Hoyt]

58. And standard for shooting targets that resemble people. But you know that.

She brought her son up in the gun culture.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

62. Yup. I get sick every time I see the targets these people use - with a silhouette of a human nt

[ProgressiveProfessor]

69. Those are primarily military and police targets

There is no accounting for taste with the novelty one.

When I teach firearms, we always use bullseye type targets. Much easier to help the students learn to shoot accurately.

Silhouettes and realistic targets were used for showing the difficulty in accurately hitting human targets well.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

67. Depends on the event

Lots of bullseye targets out there. Silhouettes are more police and military and there is no accounting for taste with the novelty ones.

[Hoyt]

70. Or for the millions -- including DU gungeoneers -- who practice shooting people. Do you train your

"classes" using them.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

74. I use bullseyes for the vast majority of instruction.

They are the best way to correct the shooters aim or change the sights.

I used detailed targets to demonstrate how much harder it is to shoot accurately at people (which it is) and to demonstrate the fallacy of the hostage rescue shot without things like lasers.

Silhouettes are the best way to teach double taps and the Mozambique drill which is tactical training.

Another way to look at it is the silhouettes and especially realistic targets are more expensive than bullseye and range trash.

IME less than 10% of what I see used are not bullseye and some ranges even ban them. The most popular seem to be the zombie ones. As I said, no accounting for taste.

[Hoyt]

56. Yes, she brought her son up in the gun culture -- like many gun lovers. This is what happens.

[panAmerican]

76. She was a survivalist, afraid of economic collapse

According to MSNBC.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

83. In other words, she was a right wing, gun-loving nutjob.

Then she should've lived in the wilderness, instead of living in a nice neighborhood, dense with children, and causing 20 little children and 6 innocent teachers and principal to die. Once again, the right wing nutjobs are killing innocents with their gun fetishism.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

89. Prepping is getting real popular, but there are many degrees of it.

You don't see a lot of hard core preppers in well to do portions of Conn, they have already established themselves in the hinterlands.

I live in SoCal and if you have not done some preparation for a big quake, you are a fool.


Be interesting to see what the truth is about her. So many media mistakes so far.

[godai]

101. Define 'real popular'.

Not by people I know. About earthquakes, people in Tokyo mainly store water. What else do you need? Guns to fight off looters? Are you a 'prepper'?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

109. Like I said, if you live in SoCal and are not, you are a fool.

I live in the middle of raw desert. Since the earthquake is coming, I have water and food stored. I also have a means to convert my solar panels from grid tie to local usage. I have a comm plan to contact my family (I live alone). So yes I have made some plans. All of this is recommended by FEMA and the state disaster people.
What they do in Japanese cites is scarcely relevant and I saw next to nothing while I was there, not unlike what I have seen in NYC or SFO.

Prepper is a huge continuum. Some are hardcore TEOTAWAKI idiots that scare the hell out of me. Most are like Mormons doing the 1 year supply of food/provident living thing and are fairly innocuous. Some are like me, Nadin, and others DUers who look at week to a month. The differences are dramatic n cost and attitude.

One thing I have found is that both the economic downturn and the recent disasters are causing people to think about things like that and about the longer term. That is a good thing for them and society.

I recent saw for the first time some TV shows about Preppers. I hope most of it is faked like many reality TV shows. Some real freaks there.

I bet you know some preppers some where along that sliding scale. Many do not talk about it. If they are minor ones, like me, you assume everyone has that level of stuff done. If they are some of the freaks you don't talk about in case the zombies hear about it

None of this has a damn thing to do with gun control or the massacre in Conn.

[In_The_Wind]

77. No one should own an assault rifle.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

82. Unless there's a war going on, you're absolutely right. nt

[Edweird]

79. She enjoyed shooting and collecting. It's actually quite common.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

85. I don't care what the hell gun fetishists and right wing nutjobs like to do, or whether or not

it's common among them. They're a bunch of sick douches.

[Edweird]

87. Well, given that there's an estimated 400,000,000 privately owned firearms in the US

(spread out among 311,000,000 people) I'd say that there are either a hell of lot of "gun fetishists and right wing nutjobs" or you're painting with an awfully broad brush.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

91. she doesn't care...

she has joined Westboro Baptist Church's mindset that all people who are not like you deserve to die and rot in hell. It's apparently the hot thing on DU now.

sP

[godai]

106. Backoff on the personal attacks.

Your earlier post,now hidden:


Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: Can't the gun hardon people wait a few days before having their little weapon fetish tantrums? Fuck. I know I speak for much if DU when I say i've positively had it with this god damn "keep yur hands off my big turgid gun" bullshit.
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT and said: Way ott snark. Totally unnecessary.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

96. Oh, that's published in newspapers far and wide, the sick gun fetishism in the U.S. and the

promotion of that fetish by the gun industry. It's no different from child porn in the damage it causes.

[godai]

105. Wow! Yesterday it was 300,000,000. n/t

[SpartanDem]

103. Bullshit plenty of liberal own guns

[Sarah Ibarruri]

115. "Plenty of" lololol

Yeah, right.

[DonCoquixote]

108. look

beyond how people feel on guns, this is a legal issue.

If I had someone in my house who was a violent drunk, and gave them the keys to my Truck, guess what, I am liable if he goes ahead and runs down a third grader.

And this time of year, the time of the office Xmas party, why do you think many corporations try to have hotels, or at least admonish people to take cabs? Because people have been found liable for DUI.

The bottom line, if I leave anything dangerous where someone who is mentally ill can get at it...I can get sued. And yes, I do think about that this time of year.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

113. Agreed, but laws are too lax...

People who undertake the responsibility of buying and owning guns, should receive mandatory incarceration the moment the gun lands in someone else's hands. If they're afraid of that, they shouldn't buy or own a gun. Guaranteed the gun fetish would start to die out, and all these gun nuts would take up a new fetish - maybe some life-size inflatable dolls or something.

[DonCoquixote]

120. I would not even go that far

because obviously adam lanza did not care about putting his mom in Jail. I would say first off

Make guns of all sorts heavily TAXED...

second, ban automatic weapons

three, have owners purchase a gun safe before they can purchase a gun.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

121. Yes, and Four, mandatory incarceration if you lose your gun somehow nt