One of the world's leading authorities on genocide says he believes Israel is committing a genocide in Gaza.

[Eko]

I think this deserves way more attention that it is getting.
"Total Moral, Ethical Failure": Holocaust Scholar Omer Bartov on Israel's Genocide in Gaza
https://www.democraticunderground.com/132137998#post2

[Blue_Tires]

1. What did he say about Darfur?

[iemanja]

3. Where is your OP on Darfur?

Did I miss out?

[Blue_Tires]

5. I've been away from DU for a decade

I only returned for good after the election... All my past discussions about Darfur are on Twitter

[iemanja]

6. How odd you should raise it here then

You haven’t had time to post about Darfur. Fair enough. But why invoke it to distract from Israel’s actions in Gaza? Do the lives of Palestinians not matter in their own right?

[Blue_Tires]

9. I can talk about more than one thing at a time

But fine... What the IDF is doing is very very bad and it's going to get ten times worse once King Donnie's coronated... I just hope all those Gaza protestors camping out, blocking traffic and tearing up their own college campus on national news are just as vocal towards Donnie as they were towards Biden and Harris...

I'll be watching.

[Eko]

23. So you started with "what about Darfur" and moved on to "what about the gaza protestors"

To a post about one of the most highly renowned experts on genocide that is Jewish ? Why did you do that? Can you not talk about what a highly renowned expert on genocide that is Jewish is saying about Gaza? Well, its kinda hard to argue against what he is saying since he has way more experience in the subject than you do so I guess if one were to be against what he is saying resorting to using "whataboutism" is about the only valid argument.
Thanks for commenting.

[Blue_Tires]

31. I'm going to keep bringing these topics up

So you'd damn well better learn to deal with it unless you're saying some genocides are more important than others...

[Eko]

33. Its easy enough to just post about what you want to talk about instead of resorting to whataboutism.

On a lighter note you ever get a chance to see this?
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[Arazi]

17. My primary social media was Twitter, now I'm over on Bluesky

None of the Hamasniks here care about Darfur or Congo or Yemen etc. They never bring up other conflicts. Ever. If anyone else here on DU brings up other conflicts it drops like a stone. They can’t be bothered to voice outrage at a real baddie like KSA implementing an actual genocide/mass starvation in Yemen for example…

No Jews in those other conflicts. Just gotta hate on Israel here.

… *antisemitism* …

[Eko]

24. That's interesting.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=thread&address=100218936572&info=1
Looks like there are a lot of familiar names on there that are against what is happening in gaza also. Jeeze, look who brought it up? Pretty cool huh?
Thanks for your comment.

[Arazi]

27. Shrug. Two different worlds

I’m deliberately not friends with anyone here. On other sites I choose to interact with different voices.

Nobody on Reddit is here (for ex). I curate feeds for lots of opinions. Surely you’re not so insular that DU is your only choice for discussion 🤔

Why would I try to replicate that kind of convo over and over? #boring

[Eko]

28. Naw you just like to drive by and use your keyboard shortcut of

"No Jews so." when it has been shown to be demonstrably incorrect.

[Arazi]

29. lol, I'm not doxxing myself for you

Nice try tho

[Eko]

30. Uh, no one asked for your private information.

[Celerity]

2. I was going to say 'In before the whataboutism starts' but I can see I am already too late. Whataboutism is mostly

denounced when employed on this board, save for the subject of I/P, where it is the mother's milk of the relentless defenders of the disproportionate slaughter there.

And I am one who HAS posted on other hotspots of human death and misery.

Those posts (and not just mine, let me be clear) usually drop like rocks.

If those other horrorshows were posted (at rates equal to each instance of Israeli defence whataboutism) by the whatabouters, then GD would have been well supplied for ages.

But no, the whataboutism is just used as a quotidian 'gotcha' attempt, a failed excusing and diversion manoeuvre.

[Crunchy Frog]

8. Things like Darfur sink like a stone here

Because no one here is defending acts of violence and human rights violations, and no one has the kind of personal investment that many seem to have in the state of Israel.

When something generates lots of contention and debate then it's naturally going to get talked about a whole lot more than something that everyone mostly agrees on.

[Celerity]

10. Agreed, and that makes this one particular type of whataboutism even less effective, less legitimate as a debating tool.

[Beastly Boy]

16. As a debating tool, it is ineffective indeed. As a reminder of manifest bias in reporting, on the other hand,

it is pretty spot on, regardless of reasons for it. And the subject being contentious is one of the lousiest excuses to amplify this bias.

[Arazi]

19. *As a reminder of manifest bias against Jews, it is spot on

I believe the world’s obsession with this conflict is primarily Jew hatred.

I can’t ignore the antisemitism.

It’s also the obvious manipulation by Russia to drive this wedge ever deeper this past year in the US that makes me skeptical of “protests” - online and in RL. Even as Hamas was still attacking in Israel, “spontaneous” events were springing up in major cities. College campus protests complete with paid Hamasnik provocateurs alongside the students.

[Iggo]

4. Of course they are. But it's okay because somebody else started it.

[state of stupid]

7. While I really do not like to accuse falsely

What I see happening literally appears to be Israel doing to the Palestinians what
the Nazis did to them.

[DavidDvorkin]

11. Literally?

The trains? The camps? The showers?

[state of stupid]

12. Same result different method

Why do you need trains or camps or showers when they are already in Camp Gaza?
Why do you need showers when you have guns and bullets, bombs and smart bombs?
Do I agree Hamas started it? Hell to yea. Do I believe Israel has the right to retaliate?
Absolutely. Do I believe Hamas needs to be destroyed? Yes, without mercy, hesitation
or regret to the last person and anyone who truly supports their cause. How do you define
truly supports their cause? How much have studied on how this situation came to be?
Did you know the Palestinian Authority is the new name for the PLO? Did you know that
reason Hamas won the election was the Palestinians no longer trusted or had faith in PA?
Did you know that the 2-state solution is not new, but was actually proposed in 1937 before
Israel was even a state? Did you what happened back then is what lead to all of this? Why
would Palestinians go with Hamas, because Hamas provided for their needs while the PA
did not. Same thing in South America. Why go with the rebels over the Government?
Same answer. Why you ask, because they are in survival mode. Words and empty promises
do not feed you or your children. The word is genocide which what the Nazis did to the Jews.
The word in Gaza Is genocide but in war it is called collateral damage.


https://www.encyclopedia.com/social-sciences/applied-and-social-sciences-magazines/two-state-solution

[DavidDvorkin]

13. Oh, my

Don't assume ignorance on the part of others.

[Lemons UK]

14. HAMAS is in the air. The wind. The rain. Possibly your drinking water.

[Beastly Boy]

15. Not necessarily, but definitely in Gaza holding hostages and committing war crimes against Gazans.

Try slapping a sarcasm smilie on that.

[malaise]

18. Duh!

Genocide and war crimes

That is all

[Nanjeanne]

20. Omer Bartov is a wonderful scholar worth reading always.

An ex IDF soldier, Israeli American historian and considered one of the leading specialists on genocide. All of his books are worth reading. First one I read in 2018 was Anatomy of a Genocide: The Life and Death of a Town Called Buczacz.

People could learn so much from him.

[ZRB]

21. Maybe they should surrender and return the hostages...

Maybe that will stop the fictional genocide. They haven’t tried that yet. Until then, boo hoo.

[Eko]

25. Enjoy your stay here.

[ZRB]

32. 21 years so far

Thanks for the well wishes.

[maxsolomon]

22. As Sinwar wanted.

He wanted to provoke Israel into an overreaction, to destroy their support all around the world. It worked.

Is Hamas refusing a ceasefire and hostage return to keep the decimation of Gaza going? What is their goal now? Do they want 10, 15% of Gazans dead?

[Eko]

26. So Sinwar wanted Israel to commit what a leading historian on genocide says is

"genocidal actions, ethnic cleansing and annexation of the Gaza Strip." and they fell for it and you are asking about what Hamas is doing? Sure that is the most important take away from this post not the "genocidal actions", and the "ethnic cleansing" that the other side is doing but what is Hamas doing? I mean they're murderous terrorists getting killed for their horrific actions as they should be so mostly they are running around dodging bullets and bombs and sometimes shooting crappy missiles that thankfully Israel is able to mostly deflect but on the whole, getting the shit kicked out of them. So, there. We talked about that. Can you address the genocide thing now that this highly respected historian on genocide has said is happening?

[maxsolomon]

34. I wasn't waiting on a "highly respected historian on genocide" to render his judgment 15 months into this war.

Hamas has the ability to end this slaughter by accepting a ceasefire. They won't.

Either they're waiting on Orange Magic Trump, or they want this excruciatingly slow genocide.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

35. Were Netanyahu not in power, would this still happen?

He's a desperate idealogue with no concern for the law.