General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI hope we aren't going to need an "Abandon All Hope" forum, since we're already seeing so much of that here
in General Discussion.
And while I believe in free speech, I've never wanted to encourage hope-abandoning, since IMO it's unhealthy for individuals and political parties alike.
It's also unrealistic. Things change. None of us can foresee the future.
We can cripple ourselves, though, by abandoning hope.
As a polio survivor who got past both that in childhood and a serious back injury in my 30s, I'm very opposed to self-crippling on top of all the problems life can throw at us.
Anger is healthier than abandoning hope...though nonstop anger is toxic and should always be balanced with connecting with people and finding joy and strength where we can.
Connecting to share feelings of hopelessness, OTOH, can be like a weighted net pulling you under until you drown in those feelings, powerless against them.
If you're feeling hopeless, then you can try to switch the channel on your mood, which IS in your power. Go for a walk and enjoy nature or just walk to exercise. Play with a pet. Turn to favorite music or books or films.
And if necessary, turn to others and ask them to help you find hope.
But if your way of dealing with a feeling of hopelessness is to try to make others share it, I hope you'll soon realize you're hurting them as well as yourself.
And in this forum, where we have some people who are already coping with depression and sorrow for various personal reasons, dropping a weighted net of political despair on them is not helpful.
So if that's going to be done, a separate forum for those who want to talk about abandoning hope might be a good idea.
Irish_Dem
(81,271 posts)highplainsdem
(62,145 posts)Irish_Dem
(81,271 posts)We have no data to support a strong sense of hope or optimism.
If you can present me with data, evidence, science, or facts to the contrary I will revise my hypothesis.
I agree that things could change for the better, but it is going to get worse before that happens,
if it ever does.
slightlv
(7,790 posts)Do you think he'd have attended the vote certification and not rose to say his peace about trump's avoidance of the legal ramifications of his actions? I don't. He would have had a full speech prepared and nearly memorized before Jan 6.
Our current crop of democrats just sit there and take it, trying to make nice with an enemy that would stab them in the heart, no longer being satisfied to stab them in the back. Show me some democratic leaders fighting for our democracy and against trump and his maladministration, and I'll stand not only behind them but beside them. Until then, count me in the group that's hopeless. trump and Musk will kill me if he has the opportunity to cut SS, and right now I see no call that he isn't going to do that.
orangecrush
(30,261 posts)Welcome our new felonious vile overlord, and will reach across the aisle to give him a dumpster handie, if he will be gracious enough to accept.
SARACASM
B.See
(8,503 posts)On the contrary, if more Americans (in general) paid attention to realities, we wouldn't be having to deal with another Trump occupancy.
Irish_Dem
(81,271 posts)Our country has been overcome with evil and gone to the very dark side.
Magoo48
(6,721 posts)But, pissing and moaning, whining, going full Henley-Penny, and becoming paralyzed by either hope or despair is waste of fucking time and energy.
How can I resist?
Direct action?
Indirect action?
Passively?
How can I be creative about it?
Is there any organizing going on around me?
.
.
.
wnylib
(26,016 posts)I have a video about Anne Frank's family. It contains interviews of people who knew them before the Nazis came to power, later in The Netherlands before they went into hiding, and in the concentration camps after they were arrested.
One person interviewed said that Anne's father, Otto Frank, talked about how he stayed away from people in the camps who focused on the hopelessness of the situation. He had observed that they fared the worst because, in their hopelessness, they did not network with others to cope and look after each other.
People who faced reality in the camps were the ones who recognized the reality that hopelessness was self-destructive. So Otto and others who refused to accept hopelessness worked together on things like methods of sneaking in or trading for food, water, and medicine, covering work details for each other if one of them got sick so they could rest, finding ways through work assignments to connect with other groups of prisoners for news of friends and relatives, etc. Those things gave them purpose and encouragement to keep going. Their attitude also helped them work together for creative ways to substitute for necessities that were lacking.
People who gave in to hopelessness did nothing to help themselves or others survive.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Irish_Dem
(81,271 posts)obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)Because it isn't there.
on edit: I don't appreciate your PA snarkiness to me, either. "Go read the OP."
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)...because the OP didn't say that.
As someone dealing with personal bullshit on a daily basis, I appreciate OP's kindness and consideration for others.
yellow dahlia
(5,877 posts)I'm a fan of venting and ranting and letting it rip. We sometimes process our own thoughts and feelings, while we do so. And on this forum there is a lot of validation of our thoughts and feelings and simpatico in venting, especially right now. I am grateful for the simpatico on DU.
Ocelot II
(130,537 posts)of the unacceptable. I hope we don't go there. It's going to suck but I refuse to give up and just mope around and whine about how much it sucks.
bdamomma
(69,532 posts)imitate Russians, who walk around miserable and drinking their liquor of choice (vodka). This is a big challenge and those of us who are aware of current political turmoil, with an imbecile felon. They want us to fear and be hopeless. Do not do this
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)Its simply unhealthy & could also lead to depression.
Basso8vb
(1,230 posts)Lead, follow or get the hell out of the way.
William769
(59,147 posts)orangecrush
(30,261 posts)Rallying us, giving us messages of hope and pledging to fight tooth and nail.
Instead, I'm hearing many pledging to "work with him".
Fuck that noise.
Bettie
(19,704 posts)Few on our side are doing anything but obeying in advance.
None of the people who are at the top of the party are willing to say a single word that is critical of Pres. Musk and VP Trump. They just seem to be sitting in a burning house discussing replacing the drapes at some point.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)I learned this long ago when people I trusted hurt me. Happiness comes from within, I believe. Like the OP said, take a walk, listen to some music, the world isnt all bad. The sun will come up tomorrow. I know its sounds cliché but its true.
Bettie
(19,704 posts)it's about my ability to believe that Democrats in office will even try to stop any of the fuckery, because they all seem to be getting on board with it and it is frustrating to watch.
I will at least have my husband and sons and we'll manage together. I'm making arrangements in case the two (plus the girlfriend) need a place to live once the economy goes to hell, we can plant a garden if we must (I detest gardening having spent most of my childhood endlessly weeding), and we're white, so we're not really high on the target list, but in the end, I'd like to see the party I've been a member of for my entire adult life actually fight for the country and it seems that they have chosen to acquiesce to whatever Musk/Trump want to do in the name of 'civility'.
I'm watching my kids' future be destroyed and it pisses me off.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)We should all be pissed. All Im saying is that its not worth sacrificing ones mental health for. Ive seen people so despondent, they literally cant function. It can happen and therapy can do a lot or even medication if that doesnt work. (Not applying this to you, just saying generally).
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...that some people are more vulnerable to the trauma and dispair that our current reality surrounds us in.
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)Our present situation isnt good. Just saying we all have to take steps to take care of our mental health before it spirals to the bottom.
Autumn
(48,962 posts)No. Fuck no. I can't even. We are so fucking lost.
Bettie
(19,704 posts)fuck is with that?
Autumn
(48,962 posts)he's willing to work with trump.
I missed that!
Other than Governor Polis? (Which I agree is peculiar to the point of shocking.)
Autumn
(48,962 posts)position and working with trump just pisses me off, that was the icing on the cake.
MadameButterfly
(4,039 posts)Trump is threatening more things than he can actually do. They aren't giving him press for stuff that just isn't going to happen. They need to save the for the stuff he really does.
I'm not justifying the appeasers: WaPo, LA Times, ABC. I've seen some pretty bad Dem votes in the House.
But I'm not giving up on the Dem Representatives, Senators, and Governors who are ready to fight.
Did you watch Hakeem Jeffries' speech after the House Speaker vote?
bdamomma
(69,532 posts)Crunchy Frog
(28,280 posts)by a bunch of senior citizens posting on an obscure discussion board?
I'm in my sixties and have lifelong treatment resistant depression, so I'm planning on becoming a general in the resistance. Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
Bettie
(19,704 posts)every time.
So, you have made my day a little brighter!
Crunchy Frog
(28,280 posts)Attilatheblond
(8,878 posts)Thinkin this old woman could use a new exercise program.
Mike 03
(18,690 posts)November 6.
I've seen maybe a dozen posts complaining about other peoples' despair, sadness, etc... They almost never have any actual ideas in them. And if you ask them, "Great, how are you fighting autocracy? Please list what you are doing. Which ideas work, and which didn't? What risk assessment did you do?" Crickets. Sometimes someone will post somebody else's list of mental preparation we can do to build resilience, determination and mental toughness. Nothing wrong with that. But none of that is "fighting an autocracy."
The only real ideas I've seen have to do with self-protection, allocating or shifting finances, basic prep. And those things are very important. I've done a lot of this myself too. But it's not fighting autocracy; it is just being realistic and prepared for likely outcomes.
Easterncedar
(6,267 posts)Makes me feel better, builds community and helps folks under threat by the mango goon.
LeftInTX
(34,295 posts)Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
Post removed
Elessar Zappa
(16,385 posts)Some people are going to have a very bad next few years if they dont try and take your advice. I keep hope so I dont fall into crippling depression. I think some of our fellow DUers are suffering from that and may consider talking to a therapist. Ive been there and it really helps!
bdamomma
(69,532 posts)anyone is suffering from depression or hopelessness please get help.
Not to be rude, listen to Mary Trump Media, she's a psychologist, and has great insight and suggestions.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)I'm a married lesbian, and it is scary enough without some of teh stuff posted here telling us to give up, we are doomed, it's all over, the poster si moving from the US (must be nice to have the money to do so), etc.
Stop and think before you post that stuff.
usonian
(25,324 posts)Here is one idea:
Since many legislators are working on a survival strategy for the country and themselves and are facing primaries down the line, they are unlikely to be a constant and loud voice for the cause. Think of a Martin Luther King (HIS DAY IS JANUARY 20, this year).
Leaders like The Clintons, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden can do so if they pledge to stay above primary disputes.
Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow can't do it alone.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219825280
There is no fairly permanent "Democratic Policy Institute" like the GOP has with its Hoover Institute (which sucks)
and aside from that, we need to build community.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10113622
The fight begins. Organizations and tools to fight for Democracy.
BUT FIRST, STOP LETTING NETWORK EXECUTIVES CONTROL THE ENTIRE NARRATIVE.

Andy823
(11,555 posts)I know many people are felling down, but I also think that a lot of the problem is posters who seem to push "doom and gloom" as their agenda. I don't post as much as I used to simply because I see so much of this happening and I am glad you brought this up.
I agree with you on every thing you said, I think others here do also.
Thank you for posting this.
CentralMass
(16,971 posts)Macrophylla
(201 posts)When you gave it your all and furiously posted cat memes all day on a niche political site but your team still lost in spite of all those super cute kitty GIFs
Just an observation
orangecrush
(30,261 posts)"Cat memes" on a "niche political site"?
O.K.
Mike 03
(18,690 posts)with no superpowers, you are seeing many of the people who were leading over the last 8 years saying things like, "We're on our own now," or flatly admitting they do not know what to do at this point. It is also disconcerting to see the institutions lining up against pro-democracy forces. In addition to the Executive branch, senate, house, SCOTUS and many smaller courts, it is becoming increasingly clear that legacy media and even corporate forces are going to side with the autocracy--including Silicon Valley.
That's a lot to swallow and a lot to think about. Resisting this won't be anything like resisting a bad president, which Trump was in 2016 and it was fun and entertaining to troll and fight these assholes.
So, I don't see the point of posts beating up on people who feel fearful, despairing or paralyzed. What is there to do today? Should we do as MineralMan suggested and watch and wait until Trump takes office and evaluate what he is attempting to do and how successful it looks like he will be.
Who will be our allies?
Who is volunteering to lead some effort of some kind to resist, and what is the objective and what are the instructions for how to do it?
ancianita
(43,307 posts)Hope22
(4,746 posts)I wont tell you what to call it. People have feelings of overwhelming danger. Give yourself a giant pat if you cant relate and ignore said posts. You are most fortunate to have only one thing that gets on your nerves out here!
senseandsensibility
(24,974 posts)as long as it doesn't break DU rules and I don't plan to start now. That includes your thread by the way.
But I will state that some of this hopelessness, IMHO, would be allayed if our Dem leadership were leading with strong ideas about how they will fight for us.
PortTack
(35,820 posts)Very succinct about moving forward.
mahina
(20,645 posts)Donald never gave up, why should we?
I get the sorrow, but I dont get the defeatism and I dont think its helpful
sagetea
(1,559 posts)about an hour and 10 mins a day.
sage
Renew Deal
(85,151 posts)Finally, an optimist.
SWBTATTReg
(26,257 posts)too w/ them.
Too much of that going on and frankly, I've reduced my exposure to DU just for that very reason.
I go to DU to get tons of advice and stories on tons of non-political stuff (it's the predominant feature of DU IMHO, not just politics) and so I enjoy this feature so much, get so much out of it.
But the doom and gloom lately is overwhelming. I thought that we were all supposed to be 'there' for each other, and not bring such despair and such to DU, if anything, bring a ray of sunshine and try to find the good things in life that we all should be thankful for, in short, bring us all up in spirits. It's not all of us but there is enough 'doom and gloom' statements on just about everything negative that could happen.
Some tips IMHO if you're on DU. IGNORE the djt news that's all over DU it seems like. IMHO, I could care the least about what this monstrosity is going to do during his last term in office.
One of the things keeping me going is going that this is his last term. His end of days is fast approaching although now it doesn't feel like it now. And he's getting older by the day, thus, he's going to not be (in my thinking) not as active and/or destructive as before (but he'll still be doing crap, don't get me wrong).
Don't give us that excuse 'but we need to know what's going on!' BS. I've heard this 'advice' numerous times and it's the same ol' BS excuse that I've heard endlessly over the years, and it is not helpful to us all here. IMHO, I'm going to barf if I hear this excuse again.
again. We all know that crap will happen soon but constantly revisiting it doesn't help us.
Instead of negative thoughts, and posting crap about djt and his ilk, what they are doing, post instead, positive thoughts about positive things going on in your neck of the woods (or the city). There are tons of news about goings on a state by state, city by city, neighborhood by neighborhood basis, that I'd prefer to hear about.
Talk about the weather, the tons of snow and ice we've just all gotten. Or, talk about Clubs in your area and give us some news/updates. Perhaps talk about tips on saving money, when you buy certain items (and if you're still spending during the former's guy's upcoming admin.)
I do plan on reining in spending too, and make more home meals, and enjoy the time at home more, and watch the news zero % of the time. Sometimes the news is so slanted that they've turned me away into other areas where I can get the news I want, YouTube is a very good source of local news too (as well as DU). I pretty well watch this nonstop.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)demmiblue
(39,720 posts)bother you.
Renew Deal
(85,151 posts)The "end of the world" posts were initially relatable. But some of the stuff I've seen in the last couple days runs between comically ignorant and malicious.
obamanut2012
(29,369 posts)jalan48
(14,914 posts)It isnt working.
Renew Deal
(85,151 posts)CaptainTruth
(8,201 posts)H2O Man
(79,053 posts)Thank you. It could be called the Eeyore Forum.
msfiddlestix
(8,178 posts)TSF's isn't even in office yet, but we know how fucked things are going to get, and it may take a while before we feel the effects. But anyone who knows a little history in Eastern Europe, and oh wait don't look now, but Canada too? The fascists have gone global and leaving may not even be an option
ForgedCrank
(3,096 posts)a constructive happy median here, but not an on or off switch. That's my personal opinion at least.
On some fronts I do agree. That is, MAGA wants to kill me or wants me dead, MAGA is Hitler, end of our Democracy, etc. That stuff serves no purpose and simply isn't grounded in reality, no matter how much I will get flamed for saying it. The election is over, we can stop with the hyperbole now. No votes are going to change, and Trump will never be running again.
Even though the GOP holds a majority in congress, there are too many detractors for them to get any of their most hard-hitting policy ideas written into law. Don't ever forget just how many people loath Trump. Hell, they just smacked him down when he demanded they get rid of their speaker. It has already started. And this is why the office of the Presidency, as powerful as it may be, is really not much more than a rubber stamper with a 4 year expiration. And even that power has it's limitations in reach. The two party system will do it's work, at least for the most part.
The worst is to expect stupid EO's from Trump, and some mostly benign, right wing legislation to pass that will also fill many of the needs for us on the left as well; it is the only way there will be enough votes to pass anything.
So I guess I'm saying that I'm in agreement. I do think that the "millions will die" and "our country is over" posts should be relegated to a different sub. But that's just me. I'm looking at things a bit more plain honesty in search of valid information, but maybe this isn't even the place where I should be looking for that sort of thing, I don't know. But post after post of calling Trump motherf***er isn't really all that productive or appealing really.
The remaining question would be who shall be the arbitrator of deciding what is and isn't? That's the snag, so it's not really possible to split the forums unfortunately. I think it would end up just being a wildly variable frenzy of post alerts and juries and nothing would get fixed in the end.
PortTack
(35,820 posts)When you see an all doom and gloom post here, just scroll on past. Its actually very empowering to look at that kind of post, regardless the OP, and scroll on by!
AKwannabe
(6,890 posts)Is the only four letter word I dont use.
So unrealistic!!
Fuck that word. Just sayin
LoisB
(13,028 posts)duhneece
(4,510 posts)No truer words have been spoken.
I have felt bitter despair, hopelessness and rage over the past weeks since the election.
But I forced myself to attend to my health (Zumba and classes at our Senior Center) and reached out to others to connect. Im grateful that my husband likes to cook so Ive invited people over to eat. Although I had to force myself to invite others over, Im glad that I did. Somewhere on DU it was suggested that we connect. Our house is small, 1,000 sq feet with a small loft, but we managed. I cant tell you how much it lifted my spirits.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,512 posts)I'm re-posting this part, since it seems to me it's been ignored by some:
"And in this forum, where we have some people who are already coping with depression and sorrow for various personal reasons, dropping a weighted net of political despair on them is not helpful."
Thank you.
Cirsium
(3,943 posts)I see a greater danger from denial and from underestimating the danger than there is from some "abandon all hope" sentiment, if that is even what anyone is saying.
The national crisis is not merely a matter of individual personal emotional states ad should it be treated as though it were. Yes, we should care for each other, but false hope and denial, while that may make people eel better for a while, is not a solution to the crisis, or even helpful.
There is actually great danger. That is objective reality. People are not served by being told to ignore objective reality.
kentuck
(115,407 posts)...do not "abandon all hope". Once hope is gone, the battle is lost.
Without hope, we will have surrendered.
So, even though we may be sick with it all, we cannot give up hope.
Ilsa
(64,371 posts)level of exposure to the moronic short-fingered vulgarian psychopath as we had to deal with from 2016 through January 2021.
Lulu KC
(8,893 posts)Where I draw the line is things that make me think, "This is exactly what Putin wants to see." I don't want to make him happy.
mgardener
(2,360 posts)I refuse to let Trump ruin 4 years of my life.
Wonder Why
(7,029 posts)Callie1979
(1,350 posts)I'm not going to be "doom & gloom" after Jan 20th. Screw trump. I'll do what I can to get rid of his enablers But I'm still going to go to my concerts, trips & other events I enjoy.
tornado34jh
(1,527 posts)If people can't realize what government they just voted for, then I don't really know what to tell them. They are worthless as far as I am concerned. It may sound misanthropic, but again, I'm just being real. They had ample information to see what they Trump was, and they still voted for it. What good is it if despite all the evidence, there is no justice? Do you think if I had done all the stuff Trump has done, I would have that much leeway? It really is a justice system for the rich. I want to be optimistic, but what have I seen that makes me think we deserve nice things? But it isn't just the US I am burning on, I'm talking about the world in general. I mean, for the most part, at least in theory, we probably are living the easiest era in all of human history. I guarantee you that hundreds or thousands of years ago, it was not easy. Early civilizations were brutal, where the rich and powerful were the norm, and that your average citizen had little, if any power in their government. I don't think many people really understand that. Vaccines, vehicles, planes, cargo ships, massive houses, and their precious guns. All that didn't exist in these civilizations. We have more information than all the libraries in the last 3,000 years or so. We are saying we want send people to Mars. Really, how can we do so when we can't figure out ourselves?
Look, I got to be honest, we were and still are fighting against a combined front. But the Democrats better start fighting harder, no more civility anymore. That has gone out the window. We tried the high road, it hasn't gotten us anywhere. See, part of the reason we are in this mess is that they, the Republicans and their corporations/oligarchies took control of the narrative and we didn't fight hard enough by going after the oligarchs. Even before Biden and Obama, it was bound to occur since the whole narrative was that if we tax the rich, it will cascade down.
But then I think back to yesterday, my aunt was of course listening to BlazeTV (i.e. Glenn Beck), and she believes them hook, line, and sinker. They are saying crime is so high, Canada was supposedly going to have a right-wing revolt against the government (a coup d'etat). So that shows how we let this get out of hand, and we were complacent.
hadEnuf
(3,616 posts)Ideas on how to screw up and harass the Trump and Project 2025 agendas along with everything else they do.
Fight these fascist bastards any way we can.
NJCher
(43,165 posts)I remember hearing this story on NPR. The speaker, a Californian was discussing his feelings about seeing his house burn down in the distance due to a wildfire. He marveled that he was feeling good at the very moment his house was burning down. Now, you might say, how could anyone feel this way? I will get to that in a moment.
Flash forward 10 months and the same narrator reflected on visiting his burnt down home, putting his life back together after the loss of important personal possessions, and how depression and despair never hit him. He said he felt good every day, including the first day he laid eyes on the pile of ruins that was once his home.
How was he able to do this?
He had been a regular when it came to meditation, as some people call it. I call it "focus." It's a way of clearing the mind and keeping intrusive thoughts out of it. That's all it is. There's no religion to it. It's just a practice of the mind.
It is one of the most studied topics in science. Study upon study has been done on it. Look into it for yourself if you don't believe me. "Scientific studies meditation" is your search term; use any search engine.
Or go to pubmed: there you will find the single term "meditation" turns up over 1000 pages citations of studies. Nearly all of these studies touch on the benefits of this practice.
A poster upthread said that you're not OK if you're hopeless (hah, notice the negative phrasing of this remark!). Utterly ridiculous and irresponsible to say, plus it's false.
I can promise you that trump has not given me a negative moment in my life. Never have I felt despair or hopelessness over this (yes) moron.
But then, I invest in myself for at least an hour a day in this practice, and I have (although somewhat inconsistently) done so for decades.
It doesn't take decades of practice to get the benefit. There have been developments that cut the time in feeling the positive effects. Binaural beats is one of them.
Someone else remarked about the dangers of a false sense of hope. That's not how it works. It works more like being reluctant to make a judgment and distancing oneself so that one can be more objective or neutral.
All day long I find myself saying, "I feel so good!" It's a wonderful place to be and just about anybody who wants to can get there if willing to invest the time.
I am enjoying every second of my life and I won't let trump take that down a notch, not even for a fraction of a second.