Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Malmsy

(339 posts)
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 08:58 AM Jan 2025

An Episcopalian responds to Comrade Bonespur's tantrum on X

(Posted on the Episcopalians on Facebook page)

President Trump,

1. Much like those who do not want you to be president, you do not get to decide whether a bishop’s office is legitimate. She was chosen by the people of her diocese to be their bishop. Then, she was granted consent to be a bishop by other bishops and standing committees of our church’s dioceses. Beginning by calling her a “so-called” bishop is an obvious low blow to discredit her as a person, rather than what she actually said that you disagree with. The Episcopal Church was legitimate enough to hold your third wedding, the funeral of Melania’s mother, and the baptism of your son, Barron. Barron also attended an Episcopal day school. Now you have an issue with how we do things when it doesn’t go your way?

2. You didn’t have an issue with politics being brought into the church by the ministers who spoke at your inauguration, or by yourself for that matter. They were blatantly partisan, crediting God for your political success: “Mr. President, the last four years there were times I'm sure you thought it was pretty dark, but look what God has done," Graham said.

3. She wasn’t nasty in tone, plain and simple. I can’t remember ever hearing a homily given in such a gracious manner and calm tone. If you disagree, listen to her speak. You may disagree with what she said, but her tone was in no way “nasty.” Additionally, insulting her intelligence, rather than quoting what you disagreed with, is a very typical play coming from a narcissist.

4. The vast majority of people who have committed crimes in the U.S. are U.S. citizens. Defending yourself about being asked to have mercy on immigrants by saying a “large number of illegal migrants came into our country and killed people” is a gross misrepresentation and does not make sense. By that logic, we should be locking up or deporting all Americans because the majority of crimes were committed by citizens. We do need to improve our immigration system, but scripture commands us as Christians to have mercy. Mercy is a central tenet of our faith. Matthew 5: 7 says “Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. Leviticus 19: 33-34 says, “When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them. The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.” If you have a take issue with this, take it up with God.

5. Saying the service was boring and uninspiring is a move to discredit the event, rather than what specifically was said. However, it’s worth mentioning that the purpose of a service is not to be “exciting”. There are several purposes for our services, such as honoring God, bringing us closer to God, and being in community with one another. Being “exciting” is not one of them. As far as inspiration goes, that is in the eye of the beholder. You get as much out of it as you put into it.

6. The bishop does not owe you an apology. Our church does not owe you an apology. All you were asked to do is what scripture directly asks us to do. If you could quote one thing she asked of you that isn’t asked of us in scripture, we would apologize. Someone recently reminded me of something I often heard growing up in church. If you are offended by a minister’s sermon or feel that it was a personal attack, look to see if you can find anything they said that was out of line with scripture and the teachings of Jesus. If you can’t, that feeling is what we call, “being convicted of your sin”. The fact you are so offended by what was said shows you know there is truth in it. To your supporters who also feel offended by it, the same goes.



https://www.facebook.com/groups/Episcopalians/posts/9103407686392877/


61 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
An Episcopalian responds to Comrade Bonespur's tantrum on X (Original Post) Malmsy Jan 2025 OP
Best line: LakeVermilion Jan 2025 #1
Agreed. calimary Jan 2025 #23
Excommunicate Donvict malaise Jan 2025 #2
Doesn't he have to belong to the church? sinkingfeeling Jan 2025 #8
Episcopalians don't do that Lulu KC Jan 2025 #36
Where are shithole's fake so called Christian ministers................ Lovie777 Jan 2025 #3
Here malaise Jan 2025 #4
Her conscience required her to explain what's in the Bible to a man who is selling them. surfered Jan 2025 #5
Please forgive me but... littlemissmartypants Jan 2025 #43
Damn good post canetoad Jan 2025 #56
I Prefer Greenland's Response... MayReasonRule Jan 2025 #6
The service was boring because the Bishop didn't worship him. Omnipresent Jan 2025 #7
She wasn't "hot". rubbersole Jan 2025 #13
I'm sure trump also thinks why can't we have only men at the pulpit like the Catholics? Omnipresent Jan 2025 #14
That's why this Catholic dropped out. calimary Jan 2025 #26
Not only that.... Butterflylady Jan 2025 #33
He only likes it when women are sexually appealing to him Dem4life1234 Jan 2025 #51
How did he get married at an Episcopal church, he is a divorced man. Has the church changed it? LiberalArkie Jan 2025 #9
Divorce isn't permitted in the Episcopal church? BonnieJW Jan 2025 #16
You are thinking of the Anglican Church RainCaster Jan 2025 #19
The Episcopal church is the American Anglican Church. Or have things changed since I don't go there anymore LiberalArkie Jan 2025 #21
I am sure they no longer ban divorcees IbogaProject Jan 2025 #32
Ahh, it has changed since the 60's. Or maybe my sisters husband was not approved? LiberalArkie Jan 2025 #34
I've only heard of that in the Catholic church n/t Lulu KC Jan 2025 #37
found out... Has to be approved by the diocese bishop LiberalArkie Jan 2025 #54
It has changed a lot Lulu KC Jan 2025 #55
Not so much that, but it used to be that a divorce person could not get married in the church. LiberalArkie Jan 2025 #20
That's no longer true. Ocelot II Jan 2025 #30
Yes, divorce is permitted in the Episcopal Church (as well as most other Anglican churches) markpkessinger Jan 2025 #49
I love what he says. But I can't rec it because, by saying it on Facebook, he's supporting Scrivener7 Jan 2025 #10
Now that was powerful LilElf70 Jan 2025 #11
The people who most meed to read those words WILL NOT Martin Eden Jan 2025 #12
The people who most need to read it..... lastlib Jan 2025 #15
And even if they could read drmeow Jan 2025 #38
This is powerful! How shameful of Trump to attack a worker of God Stargazer99 Jan 2025 #17
I cannot think of a better response. Raven123 Jan 2025 #18
We'll see of he pulls a 501c3 play. The Grand Illuminist Jan 2025 #22
his echo chamber at work , just like the la fires. AllaN01Bear Jan 2025 #24
Cantaloupe Caligula The Corpulent... GB_RN Jan 2025 #25
It's upsetting to say this but I hope this church has security. Deuxcents Jan 2025 #27
The Tangerine Traitor is having another tantrum. magicarpet Jan 2025 #28
K&R Docreed2003 Jan 2025 #29
I rarely listen to ministers. Linda ladeewolf Jan 2025 #31
"She was nasty in tone..." that poor little snow flake. republianmushroom Jan 2025 #35
That is a wonderful response drmeow Jan 2025 #39
Ain't religion grand? Maru Kitteh Jan 2025 #40
I'm neutral to negative about religion IbogaProject Jan 2025 #57
Brilliant response from the Episcopalian... TY! Cha Jan 2025 #41
Indeed. Malmsy Jan 2025 #58
Aloha... Cha Jan 2025 #60
Jesus was a woke, liberal, commie freak, who would be tackled by ICE for coming into this country illegally Montauk6 Jan 2025 #42
His intended reader is a brainless jackass. tavernier Jan 2025 #44
trump wouldn't touch a bible for inauguration - but can attack a real bishop? Number9Dream Jan 2025 #45
Are they really not mentioning it, about the bible? questionseverything Jan 2025 #47
Rachel Maddow pointed it out, but haven't heard it anywhere else Number9Dream Jan 2025 #59
Oh man, now I'm confused. returnee Jan 2025 #46
Kicked and recommended Uncle Joe Jan 2025 #48
I can't believe he made it a big deal! Dem4life1234 Jan 2025 #50
I believe that paragraph 6 touches on this Uncle Joe Jan 2025 #53
not X, it was on Truth Social Celerity Jan 2025 #52
sir, it is u who owe us an appology. AllaN01Bear Jan 2025 #61

calimary

(90,020 posts)
23. Agreed.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:50 AM
Jan 2025

Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2025, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)

And this:
“She wasn’t nasty in tone, plain and simple.“

Lovie777

(22,979 posts)
3. Where are shithole's fake so called Christian ministers................
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 09:16 AM
Jan 2025

one would be the unholy asswipe F Graham.

surfered

(13,465 posts)
5. Her conscience required her to explain what's in the Bible to a man who is selling them.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 09:38 AM
Jan 2025

littlemissmartypants

(33,585 posts)
43. Please forgive me but...
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 04:43 PM
Jan 2025

My first thought was...

"Bring a dictionary to a knife fight."

I can't read the whole thing because of that thought.

Omnipresent

(7,450 posts)
14. I'm sure trump also thinks why can't we have only men at the pulpit like the Catholics?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 10:49 AM
Jan 2025

I wouldn’t put it past him, to also have that disagreement with his church as well.

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
51. He only likes it when women are sexually appealing to him
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 08:00 PM
Jan 2025

Like if a woman would have somehow more leg or cleavage.

Otherwise he is spiteful to women.

Had this been a male bishop, I doubt he would be foaming like a rabid creature.

LiberalArkie

(19,804 posts)
9. How did he get married at an Episcopal church, he is a divorced man. Has the church changed it?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 10:10 AM
Jan 2025

BonnieJW

(3,124 posts)
16. Divorce isn't permitted in the Episcopal church?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:13 AM
Jan 2025

I had no idea. I'm Jewish, but I always thought the Protestant Church came into existence to allow divorce. Is the Episcopal church not a Protestant church? I'm totally confused.

LiberalArkie

(19,804 posts)
21. The Episcopal church is the American Anglican Church. Or have things changed since I don't go there anymore
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:29 AM
Jan 2025

IbogaProject

(5,913 posts)
32. I am sure they no longer ban divorcees
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 01:10 PM
Jan 2025

Last edited Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

They stared from the English Catholic church. Tyndale Bible was first step then Henry VIII, grabbed all the Catholic lands and got to marry after a divorce. There are conservative scholars but overall their priests are the most liberal on average among christian denominations in America. This scholarship has lead to at least on major break back in England, the Methodist church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methodism

The recent liberalization has caused two breakaway groups https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglican_Church_in_North_America and Another in South America.

LiberalArkie

(19,804 posts)
34. Ahh, it has changed since the 60's. Or maybe my sisters husband was not approved?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 01:32 PM
Jan 2025

Then one of the parties has been previously married and divorced, the consent of the diocesan bishop must be obtained prior to solemnization of the marriage.

Lulu KC

(8,893 posts)
55. It has changed a lot
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 09:20 PM
Jan 2025

Rooted in Anglican tradition, but policies and procedures are very different.

LiberalArkie

(19,804 posts)
20. Not so much that, but it used to be that a divorce person could not get married in the church.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:28 AM
Jan 2025

We were Episcopalians. My sister was marrying a divorced man. She had to go to a Methodist church that his family belonged to get remarried.

They later divorced as he was abusive. She remarried in a Baptist church.

Ocelot II

(130,533 posts)
30. That's no longer true.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 12:27 PM
Jan 2025

The Episcopal church is now quite progressive on social issues, has been ordaining women for 30+ years, has many gay clergy, lots of divorced and remarried people.

markpkessinger

(8,912 posts)
49. Yes, divorce is permitted in the Episcopal Church (as well as most other Anglican churches)
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 07:54 PM
Jan 2025

What is supposed to happen when a couple approaches a priest about a wedding, and one or both of them is divorced from a previous marriage, is that the priest is advised to counsel them first, to ascertain (1) that the divorced person has taken ownership of his or her role in the breakup of the previous marriage, and (2) that the divorced person is up-to-date with regard to any financial obligations (i.e., child support, alimony) to the previous spouse, prior to agreeing to perform the wedding. Whether that actually happens all the time is doubtful, but that is what is supposed to happen.

Scrivener7

(59,522 posts)
10. I love what he says. But I can't rec it because, by saying it on Facebook, he's supporting
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 10:12 AM
Jan 2025

the felon.

There are alternatives now.

LilElf70

(1,568 posts)
11. Now that was powerful
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 10:23 AM
Jan 2025

Ty so much for the post. I hope this goes viral.

He's s sick excuse for a human being. Reading his post made me puke. AGAIN!!!!

Martin Eden

(15,628 posts)
12. The people who most meed to read those words WILL NOT
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 10:36 AM
Jan 2025

And if they did, their takeawy would be to add the writer to the enemies list.

Stargazer99

(3,517 posts)
17. This is powerful! How shameful of Trump to attack a worker of God
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:15 AM
Jan 2025

Half of this country is a shame to attack a worker of God. The citizens in this country see it in their face and support what looks like evil to me. If this is not corrected I fear America will be destroyed. The response of the Episcopal church lays it out very logically and anyone with a sense of honesty with self would have to agree with them

Raven123

(7,797 posts)
18. I cannot think of a better response.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 11:19 AM
Jan 2025

Rejected ad hominem attacks.
Pointed out hypocrisy
Challenged Trump to identify the inconsistency between the Bishop and the Bible.

Deuxcents

(26,915 posts)
27. It's upsetting to say this but I hope this church has security.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 12:08 PM
Jan 2025

There are just too many haters out there capable of doing anything.

Linda ladeewolf

(1,138 posts)
31. I rarely listen to ministers.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 12:43 PM
Jan 2025

I did listen to this particular service, it was the only part of the inauguration I did listen to. She was perfect right down to the wire. Trump is at fault, not her.

republianmushroom

(22,325 posts)
35. "She was nasty in tone..." that poor little snow flake.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 01:44 PM
Jan 2025

Maybe Nancy will give them back if you ask really really nice, convicted felon trump.

drmeow

(5,989 posts)
39. That is a wonderful response
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 02:21 PM
Jan 2025

if Trump was a normal, functioning human being. I'm not even convinced his "Christian" Magats can read that and respond appropriately. While addressed to the Tangerine Mussolini, it really is addressed to any "real" Christians out there who blindly voted for the felon because they "don't pay attention to politics" - it might help open their eyes if they see it.

As for the appropriate response to the Orange shit stain, I be tempted to respond thus:

Awwww, did poow widdle Donnie get his widdle feewings huwt? Its OK if you need to gow sit in the cowner and suck youw thumb. The weal pwesident Ewon will still be in chawge. You can chew on the cownew of one of thos eccecuti... owdews you scwibbled on if it make you feewl bettew.

Maru Kitteh

(31,759 posts)
40. Ain't religion grand?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 02:27 PM
Jan 2025

You can literally make it be anything you want it it to be then stand behind it, using it as both shield and sword. “You’re not legitimate!” “NO! YOU’RE NOT LEGITIMATE!” They all accuse each other of being wrong; each and all of them backing their own positions with their favorite bits of ancient storytelling that they deem more important than the other’s bits of ancient storytelling.

It’s all a complete charade. Even the dumbest Evangelicals know he doesn’t really give a shit about religion.

IbogaProject

(5,913 posts)
57. I'm neutral to negative about religion
Sat Jan 25, 2025, 12:14 AM
Jan 2025

But her rebuttal to his attack was logically sound. He didn't argue against what she said whatsoever. She called him and his weak attack out solidly. I am biased as I grew up Episcopal.

Cha

(319,074 posts)
41. Brilliant response from the Episcopalian... TY!
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 02:36 PM
Jan 2025

The Truth Hurts the Felon, Rapist, Traitor to the USA.

Montauk6

(9,339 posts)
42. Jesus was a woke, liberal, commie freak, who would be tackled by ICE for coming into this country illegally
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 03:13 PM
Jan 2025

tavernier

(14,443 posts)
44. His intended reader is a brainless jackass.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 05:44 PM
Jan 2025

Nice letter, Padre, but save your breath to cool your soup. Big waste of time and energy. A short four word sentence would have been good enough for who it’s for.

Number9Dream

(1,880 posts)
45. trump wouldn't touch a bible for inauguration - but can attack a real bishop?
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 05:56 PM
Jan 2025

Why isn't the media laying an egg about his refusal to swear on a bible?

returnee

(925 posts)
46. Oh man, now I'm confused.
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 07:01 PM
Jan 2025

Timothy Dolan, the Catholic so-called archbishop of the diocese of New York said TSF is serious about his Christian faith. What’s a radical left Trump hater supposed to think?

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
50. I can't believe he made it a big deal!
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 07:57 PM
Jan 2025

I didn't think this would blow up.
I mean knew he was just sitting there, I thought the sermon would simply go in one ear out the other and he would simply move on.

He is quite a vindictive petty manchild. I can't with four years of this bullshit.

Uncle Joe

(65,134 posts)
53. I believe that paragraph 6 touches on this
Fri Jan 24, 2025, 08:13 PM
Jan 2025

“being convicted of your sin”

6. The bishop does not owe you an apology. Our church does not owe you an apology. All you were asked to do is what scripture directly asks us to do. If you could quote one thing she asked of you that isn’t asked of us in scripture, we would apologize. Someone recently reminded me of something I often heard growing up in church. If you are offended by a minister’s sermon or feel that it was a personal attack, look to see if you can find anything they said that was out of line with scripture and the teachings of Jesus. If you can’t, that feeling is what we call, “being convicted of your sin”. The fact you are so offended by what was said shows you know there is truth in it. To your supporters who also feel offended by it, the same goes.

Another way to look at it is as a sign of "repressed guilt."

Google it and you get this.

(snip)

Repressed guilt is a defense mechanism that involves unconsciously blocking feelings of guilt. Repression is a coping style that can prevent people from acknowledging or feeling certain emotions.

Signs of repressed guilt

Downplaying or denying feelings of guilt
Defensiveness
Lying
Negative self-beliefs
Preoccupation with past mistakes
Regret
Worry

(snip)

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»An Episcopalian responds ...