Canada hits back with 25% tariffs

[bigtree]

Trudeau: "Tonight, I am announcing Canada will be responding, with 25% tariffs against $155 billion worth of American goods ... With immediate tariffs on $30 billion on Tuesday, $125 billion later to allow for Canadian companies time to adjust"

watch:

Kate McKenna @katemckenna8 12m
Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau responds to Trump’s tariffs, starting by speaking directly to Americans. He outlines times Canada has helped America, and warns that tariffs will raise the cost of living in the United States.

Jamie Dupree @jamiedupree
Prime Minister Trudeau says President Trump's tariffs 'will have real consequences for the American people,' charging it will increase food and gas prices in the U.S., and could shut down major automobile plants.

[Drum]

1. I watched the CBC broadcast of PM Trudeau's remarks. Bravo: professional, compassionate.

[Bluetus]

30. It was very thoughtful and compelling IN TWO LANGUAGES

Can anybody imagine Trump ever giving 30 minutes of cogent Q&A in even one language, let alone two?

These days, Trump has the vocabulary of an 8-year-old, no offense to 8-year-olds.

[dweller]

2. And the hits keep coming

https://m.

😐



✌🏻

[Bluetus]

33. Canadian exports to US are about 18% of its GDP

US exports to Canada are a much lower percent of our GDP.

In other words, the trade war would seem to bring more pain on Canada. But that isn't the whole picture.

#1, Canada didn't do anything to cause this. It is an unprovoked attack. So even though Trudeau's popularity has been low, I expect Canadians will rally behind him, just because this is such a blatantly hostile act by Trump.

#2, Americans don't support this action. We like the Canadians and nobody wants to turn them into enemies. So Americans will be much quicker to get angry about the higher prices we feel because it is all so pointless.

#3, Trump will be attacking other countries. He is already attacking China, and I don't think he will stop there until Americans get really angry about the economic damage. Canada can develop some trade with these other countries. That won't be immediate, but the consequences of this war could end up being more long-term than Trump's brain can envision.

[kelly1mm]

3. I thought tariffs were a tax on your own countries citizens. Why would the PM want to tax his own citizens? nt

[Think. Again.]

4. The majority of the goods he mentioned are luxury goods...

...that can be easily substituted by non-American items.

He obviously is trying to avoid burdening Canadians with OUR problems while also standing in opposition of trump.

The most important part of his speech was that HE MADE A SPEECH.

Where are OUR Democratic leaders in this moment of crisis?

[bigtree]

5. he's not just going to be a victim to an arbitrary attack on his economy by the U.S.

...it's a sovereign nation defending itself against an aggressor which is attacking them without cause.

It's like asking why a country defending itself against an attack is willing to hurt their own people by retaliating against the attacker. It just offensive and surrendery.

[kelly1mm]

8. How is taxing his own citizens by imposing tariffs defending Canada against the US? I mean tariffs are taxes on

the countries own citizens. right?

[newdeal2]

10. Retaliation

This is what economists said would happen and tank the world economy. Donnie Dipshit didn’t believe them or care.

[kelly1mm]

15. Still not understanding. I understand that tariffs are a tax on your own countries citizens/consumers. Am I correct

in this thinking? If so, is Canada saying 'we want our citizens/consumers to suffer too!'?

I

[Blues Heron]

26. He is picking things for which Canadian alternatives are readily available.

[kelly1mm]

27. If Canadian alternatives were already available why would Canadians be buying US made products? If it was

because the US products were cheaper than this is a tax on Canadian consumers, no?

[uponit7771]

31. Yes, America makes some products cheaper than others because of automation. Also, my involvement with supply chains ....

... taught me a 10% increase in price from vendor a is worth it because service, take backs, availability, stability of price etc etc etc

Yeah, I can buy this part from vendor b cheaper but vendor b is full of a-holes who screw up even when they're trying not to.

The bad thinking of Benedict Donald and his stupid crew is his tariffs aren't targeted enough thinking people can't switch vendors on a dime in 2025

In 1980 switching vendors might take a year now it take a week ... they hate the globalized economy but can't stop the tech behind it.

[bigtree]

16. lol

...really?

If the U.S. was hit with unfair tariffs, our correct response would be to retaliate in kind until they let up.

That's what Canada is going through right now. All of it is Trump's fault for starting this false and deliberately destructive trade conflict, so pretending like it's Trudeau doing something against his own people in his defense against Trump's tariffs is really something.

Let's just say that it's something I'd expect an aggressor nation to taunt their victim with.

[Jvp]

20. read number 4

[lame54]

28. If they buy the goods

[kelly1mm]

29. So if US consumers do not buy Canadian goods it is not a tax on them as well? nt

[Nasruddin]

35. No

The importer paid the tax.
Ie, the tax has already been imposed and paid.
The consumer question is does the tax get passed on to you the consumer. You of course have the option not to buy.
The importer can eat the tax, pass on part of the tax, or do some other weird thing, whatever the market will allow.

If demand falls, eventually, the importer stops buying the tariffed product or so much of it, or other bad things happen.

[kelly1mm]

43. So the Canadian importer will pay the tax. Got it. nt

[Mountainguy]

46. No, they won't import it anymore

I don't think you're really arguing in good faith though.

[kelly1mm]

47. So the US importers will not import the Canadian products anymore. Got it. nt

[Mountainguy]

48. lol, do you

have a nice replacement for lumber, oil, gas, and electricity?

No? Then they aren't the same.

[kelly1mm]

49. The US produces more oil than it consumes, It does not need Canadian oil. The US imports 1.6% of its electricity

from Canada. A 25% tariff means US electricity prices would increase by 0.4%. Lumber is more problematic. 25-30% of US consumed lumber comes from Canada. a 25% tariff would mean about a 7.5% increase in lumber prices. However, lumber prices are currently 60% lower than they were in 2021, just four years ago (when unfortunately I built a 24x14 screened in porch addition!)

[Mountainguy]

50. Wrong

We produce a full 50% less than we use. And that electricity powers huge parts of the northeast.

We import nearly 30 billion cubic feet of softwood for construction, which nobody else has the capacity to replace, especially in a year when we are going to have to rebuild half of LA.

Canada is smart enough to not tariff products that they rely on.

[kelly1mm]

53. Where are your cites? Here are mine:

"There are currently more than 30 power transmission linkages between the United States and Canada. During 2014, 60 companies in Canada exported 58.4 terawatthours (TWh) of electricity into the United States, making up 1.6% of U.S. electricity retail sales and 10% of Canadian electricity generation. The largest exporters were Hydro-Québec (16.4 TWh) and the Manitoba Hydro-Electric Board (8.6 TWh)."

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=21992

That's the US Government Energy Information Administration link. While this specific info is out of date I cannot find any updated data that says it is more but would be open to additional cites.

I assume you concede the oil issue as you did not respond to that.

I already stated lumber is an issue. However as I stated before, lumber is currently 60% LOWER than it was just 4 years ago. While a 7.5% increase is not ideal for the US economy, it is not a doomsday scenario.

The bottom line is that I believe ALL tariffs are a tax on the consumer. Be that initial tariffs or retaliatory tariffs. Each should be condemned. Apparently that is an issue for some here.

I also think that is a trade war with the US that Canada and Mexico are in much weaker positions than the US. Not excusing the tariffs of President Trump, just reality.

[AllyCat]

57. I assume the person has conceded nothing because

It was late and they wanted to go to bed.

I’m struggling to understand lumber prices 60% lower. In my microcosm of the country, they never went down after ‘21 and now will get much worse.

[druidity33]

58. 4 years ago lumber rose to 400%...

due to the pandemic and supply chain issues. New construction was dead in the water and partially constructed buildings were put on hold or never finished. There is a half built luxury home near me that is still half-built. Lumber is now only 75% higher than it was pre-pandemic.

[Nasruddin]

61. You didn't get anything

The AMERICAN importer pays the tax.

It might be Costco; it might be Kroger, it might be Chevron

Are you a troll?

[orleans]

37. i think that is correct nt

[lame54]

38. Many people will choose the lower priced item...

And never know anything about the tariff war

[JT45242]

41. Don't think the billionaire class won't raise the price on the cheaper alternatives

It just won't be the full 25 percent plus markup.

A ten percent supply/demand would increase profits and still be cheaper than the tariffed alternative.

When elephants fight the ground suffers. In this case the consumer in both countries.

[Nasruddin]

62. Don't need a price fixing conspiracy

It's possible, but just the marketplace could deliver a price increase.
If there's less to buy and the consumers perceive a shortage, it's likely the price will get bid up.

[JT45242]

65. I was suggesting opportunism not price fixing and collusion

Just like the guy from Kroger said in the hearing with congress...we kept prices higher than we needed for longer than we needed to because it was good for profits.

I am suggesting greed, not a conspiracy.

[Nasruddin]

34. Also a burden on US exporters

US businesses that export goods to Canada will probably experience a drop in sales, so drop in revenue
Just as tariffed Canadian goods will cause a Canadian producers to lose sales

How this works out, who is hurt more, and how prices work themselves out is a bigger story.

[Shipwack]

40. Because that means less American goods will be bought.

Canadians will stop buying Americsn hoods that have tariffs, and buy those same goods from other countries.

Americans don't have this option. We really need Canadian oil and electricity.

China is going with what worked last time. For instance, They've cancelled soybean orders from American farmers and now are buying soybeans from other countries, such as Russia.

[kelly1mm]

44. Do we really need Canadian oil? I believe the US produces more oil than it consumes. As to electricity,

what percentage of the US electricity demand comes from Canada? I looked it up and it is 1.6%. So a 25% tariff on Canadian electricity will increase the US energy bill by 0.4%?

[Shipwack]

55. We don't produce the right kind of oil.

There are various grades of petoleum. The oil we produce is a lower grade. The oil we need to refine into gasoline comes from other countries.

They are talking about a complete embargo of electricity to the US. Overall, it wouldn't be much. But the states that use it the most (in the northeast) need it. Yes, it can be gotten from the US electrical grid, but it'll put a strain on it, possibly requiring brownouts or rolling blackouts.

[kelly1mm]

56. So I assume you believe the US will buckle under the might of the Canadian tariffs? Do you think

the US will be hurt more than Canada in this 'trade war'? I doubt it primarily based on the sheer size of out relative economies.

In any event, I believe any tariffs (initial or retaliatory) are taxes on their own consumers and should be denounced.

[Kingofalldems]

6. Nope.

0% chance of that.

[kelly1mm]

9. 0% chance of what? Canada apparently just put a tariff on some US goods. no? Isn't a tariff a tax on ones own

citizens/consumers?

[TomSlick]

17. There are no other options.

Canada cannot stand idly by while Trump imposes tariffs on Canadian goods. Both countries will suffer.

[kelly1mm]

18. So Canada's response to the US imposing tariffs (taxes) on its citizens/consumers is to impose tariffs (taxes)

on it's own citizens/consumers? Is the thinking 'we can't let the US population be the ONLY ones that get to suffer! We need some of that suffering here in Canada'?

[bigtree]

24. no, you've twisted the conflict

...because of the U.S. tariffs, Canada is forced to adjust their own economy in response.

These actions by Canada intend to regain the balance of trade that existed before Trump imposed the harmful sanctions.

The fact that Canadians will suffer is Trump's fault, not because Trudeau was forced to adjust his country's trade policy to account for the revenue they were due to lose.

You're misrepresenting the conflict entirely.

[TomSlick]

64. Correct.

[moondust]

25. Buy Canadian products!

Is what they are pushing as a response, telling Canadians to check the product labels. I don't know how much difference that will make.

[Gore1FL]

22. There is a use and purpose for tariffs

While none of those are involved in Trump's idiocy, the targeted economic leverage they can provide is an appropraite response to said idiocy.

[spanone]

7. Not even in office for two weeks and he bullying our neighbor allies.

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS MAN?
WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THE REPUBLICAN PARTY?

[IcyPeas]

11. It's like drump's holding our allies hostage

Only HE can retaliate. Only HE can threaten. And maybe the saddest part of all ... he has his traitor party backing him up.

They mention trying not to offend, or provoke.... everyone walks on eggshells around trump.

And the fentanyl..... why did he pardon the guy from the Silk Road?

[Submariner]

12. Recall the Canadian Snowbirds and get DeSantis pissed at Chump

for losing millions in Canadian tourist dollars. A civil war between those two would be fitting, and enjoyably entertaining, especially since it's a stand your ground state.

[Beckett]

13. My word they look grim

This gets worse by the day.

[Greg_In_SF]

14. The problem I see here

is that US trade accounts for almost 1/3 of the Canadian GDP.

[Nasruddin]

63. That's part of the leverage Trump counts on

The other part is all that talk about better military protection / US security

[spanone]

21. Mexico too...

Mexico orders retaliation to Trump tariffs without detailing targets

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/mexican-president-orders-retaliatory-tariffs-against-us-2025-02-02/

[dchill]

23. Well, you know Elon told us there would be some pain...

Just not for him. He's got the keys to the bank.

[AlexSFCA]

32. trump's tariffs have nothing to do with anything but self enrichment

it’s a way to funnel consumers money into US Treasury overrun by trump loyalists. This will make trump the richest person in the world.

[AllyCat]

36. If tariffs are bad (and they are) why are other countries doing this?

Don’t tariffs hurt them? Is this performative?

[orleans]

39. read upthread start at the top and go down. eventually all will be explained. nt

[Historic NY]

52. Because its not a ONE WAY STREET.

[JDAcme]

42. Turnabout is fair play, eh?

[Thrill]

45. What a fool Trump is. All he had to do was shut the hell up

Do nothing and take credit for everything Biden had done. But his ego wouldn’t let him.

[Historic NY]

51. The US needs soft lumber for rebuilding California and other storm ravaged areas

we buy more that we actually produce it already has tariffs. , 40% of oil is exported to the US from Canada.

[RockRaven]

54. If you see/hear a MAGAt crying about how this affects them, don't forget to

remind them that this is exactly what they voted for despite everyone warning them.

[Oopsie Daisy]

59. Good... make it hurt! The harder the better. The more suffering...

... the more people will turn against Trump and the GOP.