Josh Marshall: my impression is that the Musk take over stuff is considerably worse than is being presented by press

[Dennis Donovan]

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
Several conversations today w people in the key executive departments. And while the particulars are hard to pin down my impression is that the Musk take over stuff is considerably worse than is being presented in the press. By this I don’t necessarily things they *done* yet but the level of …

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
2/ they already have over key computer systems, payment systems, etc. and with the press picture it’s not that things aren’t getting out. The stuff abt the Treasury payments systems and control over certain computer networks has been reported. It’s more putting together the big picture abt how …

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
3/ different pieces fit together. There also seems to be a significant amount of downloading government data onto private servers, etc, totally outside any cybersecurity regime. Additionally it’s unclear to the people inside whether the people doing these things actually work for the US govt…

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
4/ who they are, whether they’re even American citizens. They all seem to be Thiel and Musk protégés. And I’ve had multiple references to their refusing to identify themselves by anything but first name. The rationale given is that they could be doxed.

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
5/ One additional point and to be clear this latter stuff isn’t from my reporting just pieced together other reports and what musk is saying himself. They’re into th ex treasury payment system and claiming they’ve already found like $4B in “savings” a day.

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
6/ It’s important to know what this means. This is simple his DOGE team reviewing the US federal budget, law of the land and deciding which parts aren’t necessary. It sounds like they’re saying they will unilaterally cut these funds with control over the check writing at Treasury.

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
7/ They’re not saying that last part explicitly but that’s certainly the logic of what they’re saying. (Go look at his tweets over thd last two days). So a group of Musk protégés seem to be overruling the US federal budget. Impoundment by the president is illegal. It’s hard to think through …

Josh Marshall
‪@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
8/ the levels of illegality having a group of people who don’t even seem to be US government employees doing it.
February 2, 2025 at 12:19 AM

8/ the levels of illegality having a group of people who don’t even seem to be US government employees doing it.

— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm.bsky.social) 2025-02-02T05:19:04.912Z

[edhopper]

1. This should be "Hair on Fire" warnings

And yet, even here, people are saying it's not a something to be overly concerned about.

[Attilatheblond]

57. Betting almost ALL federal employees are worried

And every retiree with half a brain who also relies on their Federal Employee Pension and/or Social Security, both of which are EARNED benefits.

[Dennis Donovan]

2. Jonathan Ladd: Arguably the biggest national security breach in U.S. history.

Jonathan Ladd
‪@jonmladd.bsky.social‬
Arguably the biggest national security breach in U.S. history. Private employees downloading personnel data on every federal employee and tax and social security data on every American onto private unsecured servers. Needless to say, completely illegal and subject to major prison sentences.

‪Josh Marshall‬ ‪
@joshtpm.bsky.social‬
9h
3/ different pieces fit together. There also seems to be a significant amount of downloading government data onto private servers, etc, totally outside any cybersecurity regime. Additionally it’s unclear to the people inside whether the people doing these things actually work for the US govt…

February 2, 2025 at 7:47 AM

[dhol82]

3. And nobody, NOBODY, can stop this?

How? It just seems impossible.

[Mr.WeRP]

18. The people who can stop it are allowing it.

[cachukis]

23. Courage is in short supply in many of our fellows.

[stillcool]

36. over 300 million of our fellows

Nice to have control over all branches of the federal government, and many, many states. There is no law applicable to the Republican party.

[cachukis]

46. Where are the Patrick Henrys?

"Give me liberty or give me death."
Looking at their social media seeking self gratification doesn't seem to be a good path.
But that's what we got.

[stillcool]

51. C-Span?

[yellow dahlia]

69. I keep asking those questions.

Calling and emailing my reps in Congress.

But it might also be possible to reach Senators other than our own Senators. Gonna give it a try.

[OldBaldy1701E]

76. Of course they can.

No one wants to get their hands dirty. Either metaphorically, or in reality.

[VMA131Marine]

4. $4 billion per day

Is nearly $1.5 trillion per year or about one quarter of the annual federal budget.

I seriously doubt there is anywhere close to that level of “waste” in the budget.

[surfered]

13. Agree: 2023 expenditures were $6.1 trillion or $16 billion a day.

[cachukis]

5. He believes algorithms are easier to control than humans.

A younger society has been raised in this world and see it as the way it is. That generation has not been exposed to how we got here, only fed the next great escape.
The keys to the kingdom have been passed beyond our control.
We are now going to manage our plight.
The money monsters know we are lost, including themselves, but have the resources to enjoy the turmoil. They too, are afraid, but can't stop.
My god, it has all become the game on our computer screens.
Yes, fight back. But if we respond with dignity and honor, we lose to those who have never experienced either.
My college chum always responds, "big eats little, deal with it."

[underpants]

7. His game is information. It's easier to control humans WITH algorithms

Control what we see and how we see it.

[Kid Berwyn]

37. Control what they think and you'll control what they do.

And on those who won’t obey, he’ll sic the killer robots.

[underpants]

44. I hope Yoshimi's been taking their vitamins

?si=7ENsNUZ-x7TA1ccz

[The Madcap]

15. Little needs countermeasures

Like camouflage and poison barbs.

[cachukis]

27. That's what we have. We are on the outside of

the stone walls with rusty muskets firing as well as we can.
Who'd have thought we would need a revolution to defeat what we've become?
Holy cadookalas!

[Dave says]

24. Have your chum tell the Mastodons that

[cachukis]

25. Are you familiar with chum salmon?

[LisaM]

52. You're right that there is a generation (maybe two) that see this as normal.

We went out to eat last night. We were going to order it to pick up after grocery shopping but first we were confronted with a variety of choices and apps to download (we usually get delivery from this restaurant which has its own drivers). Eventually we didn't feel like dealing with the hassle of downloading apps and punching in numbers so we went to the restaurant and ate in.

The atmosphere in the neighborhood Chinese restaurant was cozy and relaxed. There was a fireplace going. We got a free pot of tea to start. The service was friendly and prompt. Our food came in courses, instead of our opening containers all at once. The food was way fresher and piping hot and the portions were bigger than takeout. We looked at each other and thought, why aren't we doing this more often? It's a way better experience, doesn't take any more time, we have gobs of leftovers, and no dishes. We saw other people from our neighborhood happily chatting and enjoy themselves.

My point is that we now have generations being trained away from this. The entrance to the restaurant was clogged with takeout bags and delivery drivers from many different platforms rushing in and out. I know now that people were going to get smaller portions of food, not as fresh or hot, and a longer wait than we had. Why are we doing this to ourselves?

[cachukis]

55. I have a full set of silver with all the special pieces

I was hoping to bequeath to my son and his wife with one caveat; they must teach their children how all the implements are used.
They declined.
So much is lost to expedience.
Our oldest daughter has taken over holidays. She sets a table, but is now more open house. Some sit and dine, others mingle and sip beverages.
We've witnessed dynamic change in the post war era. We are all part of it.
What has been lost, will not be found.
Something new will turn up in the next fifteen minutes erasing the last fifteen.

[LisaM]

61. The thing about the beautiful dishes floors me.

For one thing, it's ecological to re-use what's already here. It's economical too. I think it's hypocritical to reject these heirlooms if you care about the environment or being frugal.

[dickthegrouch]

82. The kids probably remember having to clean the silverware!

I did a steady trade in silver cleaning as a teenager
Bought a lot of electronic components for my home laboratory when they were very expensive.

[KPN]

74. Great post.

[Girard442]

6. ...claiming they've already found like $4B in "savings" a day....

By Musk's Nazi logic, all Disability payments are wasted.

Lebensunwertes Leben

[Diraven]

14. He's not going to tell us what they are either

Just cut them off and see who complains. Then those people will probably be arrested.

[Bettie]

21. Sounds like a plan to stop sending

out any checks to people.

Social Security sends out 1.5 billion (approximately) per day for example.

If they just stop payments to everything, well, they get their "savings" and the bonus of people suffering AND the economy crashing so hard it will never recover.

[NH Ethylene]

83. This terrifies me.

I couldn't live without the social security check. Multiply this by 68 million recipients, most of whom would lose their homes within a couple of months, and die out on the streets. And what are the chances we'll get our tax refunds this year?

[Autumn]

8. I always log into Blue Sky first thing.

I saw that this morning. Shit's getting crazy and the silence is deafening.

[dalton99a]

9. Kick

[Wicked Blue]

10. Musk misused his student visa when he came to the US

Newsweek, Nov. 1, 2024:

On October 26, The Washington Post alleged that Musk had worked illegally in the U.S, citing "former business associates, court records and company documents."

Stephen Yale-Loehr, a professor at Cornell Law School and faculty director of its Immigration Law and Policy Program, told Newsweek that Musk could be in legal trouble for his alleged immigration violation.

-snip-

The (Washington) Post alleges that in 1995, Musk was admitted to Stanford University's graduate school but didn't enroll in classes. He instead used the student visa to stay in the U.S. and work on what would eventually become Zip2, Musk's online business directory. The Post also alleges that in 1996, investors made a funding agreement contingent on Musk obtaining permission to work in the U.S. within 45 days. Zip2 board member Derek Proudian told the newspaper that Musk's immigration status was "not what it should be."

Musk received U.S work authorization in 1997 and became a U.S citizen in 2002.

https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-immigration-status-1990s-donald-trump-twitter-2024-election-1978588

[Diraven]

12. He actually is a citizen

Just not born here.

[surfered]

17. According to news reports, Musk came on a student visa, but dropped out of college .

He later applied for citizenship. Did he answer the questions on the application for citizenship truthfully (such as, not admitting he violated the terms of his visa)? If not, his citizenship could be revoked.

I doubt Trump’s administration will ever look into it.

[MLWR]

35. Trump has $250,000,000 reasons not to look into it.

[SheltieLover]

32. Nationalize his assets, denaturalize him, & send him to gitmo for crimes against humanity

👟

[Seinan Sensei]

85. Deport Musk and his spawn

[bucolic_frolic]

11. Imagine payments being cut off, and even clawed back. A tithe of sorts. Chargebacks.

Nothing happens without someone getting paid off. This is not patriotism run amok. Who is paying these employees? Musk?

'Congratulations, U.S. Citizen! You are now contributing $500 per month to the Make the U.S. Dollar Great Again Fund!"

Prices will come down. We will see deflation. We just won't have any money.

[Borogove]

16. This is beyond frightening in its implications.

[Arazi]

19. Turning on and off payments is first class authoritarian shit

This is how they’ll enforce their despicable agenda.

Blue states won’t cooperate with ICE? We’ll just stop paying Social Security to your state’s residents until you comply.

Your school won’t remove a rainbow flag? No more federal subsidies.

This is really really going to get so much worse than we imagine. The corruption is going to be epic

[AKwannabe]

20. Kick

[patphil]

22. My concern is that a huge amount of US government data is now on unsecured computers.

I think this information could easily find it's way out of the United States, and fall into the hands of foreign entities or governments, some of which could be hostile to US interests.
If so, Musk wouldn't just be guilty of criminal theft, but also espionage. This is the largest data breech in the history of the US government.
If and when we get our government back, he and anyone who worked with him needs to be charged for crimes against the United States.

[HipChick]

29. Exactly, should be a huge cybersecurity concern...

[Bayard]

45. Identity theft on steroids

[yellow dahlia]

70. Agreed.

[SheltieLover]

26. Absolutely no doubt it's much worse.

[gab13by13]

28. Meh, another doom and gloom thread,

We can just vote them out in 2026 and 2028 as long as Musk isn't involved in the election, or if we even have an election.

Congress, who needs it, so what if Putin/Musk/Trump will now control the purse strings.

Maybe being a colony of Russia won't be that bad.

Do I need the sarcasm thingy?

For a country to become a dictatorship it helps a lot if the people are apathetic, it helps when people are screaming our house is on fire to have other people tell them to relax we can rebuild, let it burn.

[sop]

31. Must have been what Trump meant when he said: "He (Musk) knows those computers better than anybody.

All those computers. Those vote-counting computers. And we ended up winning Pennsylvania like in a landslide."

[yellow dahlia]

71. Have you seen the numbersarewrong2024 report?

[unblock]

30. We've all been doxxed. The only people in America who haven't been doxxed are...

Undocumented immigrants....

[pandr32]

33. We are very concerned.

Our bank accounts could be emptied, our monthly income stopped, and then we would lose our home.
At the very least he could sell our information on the dark web. Lists are worth money.
At the worst he could give it all to Putin who would clean out our accounts and have info on all of us, here and around the world.

[Beaverhausen]

34. Where are our democratic representatives?

What are they doing?

What musk is being allowed to do is criminal.

Where are our senators and reps?

[gab13by13]

38. They should be out doing town halls across the country

firing up the people. They are doing no good sitting in D.C.

It is going to take the people in masse to throw out the billionaires.

[stillcool]

39. I guess that depends on who you have

My Senators and Congressman, and State elected officials are doing their jobs. Reacting as things are done, and trying to find work-arounds to protect and defend the people in our state. I can not imagine what could possibly be done at the federal level. What do they say? Elections have consequences?

[ancianita]

41. Here. Call yours and find out.

https://www.senate.gov/general/resources/pdf/senators_phone_list.pdf

https://clerk.house.gov/member_info/TTD-119.pdf

[yellow dahlia]

72. My questions also.

Been writing and calling reps all last week. Going to do more today.

[ancianita]

40. No duh, Josh. It's why TPM exists in the first place.

[dchill]

42. Musk has no official government job title. He's committing crimes.

He and his cohorts should be arrested. All I'm saying is that Merrick must have a plan. This will all be wrapped up soon.

[Grins]

43. What I learned in the Army.

On promotion to 1LT, I was asked what I had learned. This:

“Whenever senior officers say things are great, they are just good. When they say things are bad, they’re WORSE! A lot WORSE!”

Also true when I left the Army for the corporate world.

[quakerboy]

47. How are they being allowed into buildings?

Without so much as identifying themselves, how are they getting access to these systems and locations?

[Arazi]

75. The new Treasury Secretary has approved this so he's letting them in

[quakerboy]

77. Interesting. And same over at opm?

And the secretary has the power to just unilaterally allow any random unidentified person access to any of these systems and locations?

Ive always heard we had checks and balances, that the authorities didnt have the power of tyrants. It would seem that they have been lying to us all along.

[Arazi]

79. Yes, the acting head of OPM is similarly allowing Musk and Co to pillage

Russell Vought, one of Project 2025’s chief architects, is still in the middle of confirmation hearings so there’s questions on that particular office’s authority to allow this kind of data breach.

But the Treasury Secretary is fully Senate confirmed and installed (with the blessing of 15 Dems 🙄 ).

Beyond that, nobody knows the legality of this kind of action - it’s literally never been tried before. Many believe it’s illegal but somebody’s going to have to step up and get into court to stop Musk.

And is it too late?

By every report he’s downloading everything onto his own servers already

[liberalla]

48. With so much shit to be wary, alarmed and outraged about -- this is right up there in the top echelon,

If not at the pinnacle. Come on Dems!

[tanyev]

49. Downloaded onto a private server? Surely the GOP is making plans right now

to haul him in for an 11 hour grilling before a Congressional committee.


I don’t really need this, do I? —>

[DENVERPOPS]

50. My opinion on

this current situation is that we are seeing the results of the accumulation of the last 45+ years by the "Powers To Be" organizing, planning and orchestrating for this moment to fully roll out their Check Mate.

The citizens, walking down a jungle path, swatting at mosquitoes, have missed the herd of charging elephants...........

As I have said for a long time, the perfect title for a book about the past 45+ years would be:

WHILE THE NATION SLEPT

[liberalla]

56. Very astute observation.

I like your description, especially this:
"The citizens, walking down a jungle path, swatting at mosquitoes, have missed the herd of charging elephants..........."
yikes!

[DENVERPOPS]

65. Yea,

I have used it for years and maybe decades......INCLUDING THE PUN....(ELEPHANTS) LOL

[CousinIT]

53. No shit. By the time Dems or anyone else finds out what they're doing, IT WILL BE TOO LATE. n/t

[CousinIT]

54. How long before one of Thiel or Musk's goons leak this data or sell it

... or does it get stolen since it is on unsecured private servers and hard drives? These are not government employees, and they have full access to critical IT and payment data that our government (not Elon's or Peter Thiel's) runs on.

Musk bought himself a President. HE DOES NOT OWN OUR GOVERNMENT.

THAT BELONGS TO US IE: WE, THE PEOPLE, not Musk OR SHitler.

I worry a lot that that data may end up on the dark net, being stolen, sold, or leaked.

This is not only a financial heist but a data heist as well.

Also, it can be used to intimidate anyone who pushes back on the SHitler agenda, i.e., "if you don't go along, then we will disable your paychecks, grants, subsidies, VA benefits, Medicare or Social Security payments," etc.

[Meowmee]

59. Your last point was one of my thoughts too

Even McCarthy like trials etc.

[yellow dahlia]

73. So they could "go after" anyone who is a part of the "resistance"...of course.

I was just saying to Mr. Dahlia: For years we have been alerted and warned when a server or service that was attached to our data has been breached. We had a big breach in our State system lately. It was suggested that we freeze our credit w/ the credit bureaus.

Are we going to be alerted that our data has been breached at the Treasury? Are the Federal employees going to be warned that their data may have been breached at OPM?

The biggest data breach ever!

Can we sue the Treasury? Can bring a civil suit against Musk? (He is not protected within the context of a federal job.)

[Meowmee]

58. Who will do something and arrest him/ them?

Have any D said a word about this?

[Beartracks]

60. "DOGE team... deciding which parts aren't necessary."

To clarify, this means whatever parts of the US budget and payments that THEY -- the DOGE team -- think aren't necessary. Not WE the people, but the unelected techbros.

==============

[Evolve Dammit]

62. Un-elected. Not a government employee. Barely a U.S, Citizen. and like Drumpf said to RFK Jr. "Go wild." Kinda like 1/6

"Be there. Will be wild." He (Heritage Foundation, MAGATs) are trying to destroy it all. Wake up Dems that are voting to confirm these assholes and have untenable delusions of somehow reaching across the aisle to Cult 45.

[slightlv]

63. I recently retired from Civilian DoD

I went through all kinds of crap and endured the "forever" wait to obtain my security clearance. Now, these tech bros are bringing in their minions to raid our treasury?! This is Idiocracy to the extreme. This is downright dangerous. There's not a speck of security left in our government. While there are so many charges that could be made for impeachment, THIS is the one that should be made to stick. Taking Top Secret files and sharing them with who knows who was maddening enough. To know that these creeps have power over every penny of OUR money is just too much. Time for another vodka laced hot chocolate! ARGH!!!!

[Hitorque]

64. God damnit, EVERYTHING about Trumpism is worse than presented by the press

[kimbutgar]

66. Muskrat brought the presidency from the 🍊💩🤡 he is charge and the 🍊💩🤡 sold our country for billions of money

In a secret bank account.

That said when things go bad between those two gigantic egos, watching them implode will be interesting and dangerous.

[drmeow]

67. They all need to be

summarily executed for treason.

[yellow dahlia]

68. .

[mchill]

78. Trump plans to challenge Impoundments

Giving him exclusive purse power over Congress all the way to the Supreme Court as reported in ProPublica recently. Sounds like Musk is going to give him a case

[cstanleytech]

80. The Congressional Republicans are making the exact same mistake that was made in Germany in the 1930's

They failed to rein in Hitler and he launched a major war.

[JoseBalow]

81. It's the drumpf takeover, not the Musk takeover

Musk ain't doing shit on his own, it is all at the service of drumpf.

[BadgerMom]

84. And Putin.

We wreck his economy for invading Ukraine; he wrecks ours via his puppets.