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[Frank D. Lincoln]

This message was self-deleted by its author (Frank D. Lincoln) on Wed Feb 5, 2025, 11:22 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[obamanut2012]

1. 100% agree

I said it to my wife Election Night, especially after Iowa's vote came in. No way Ann's poll was off by that many points when rhe most she was off was by a few. She even called Trump's win In 2016.

I think they tried to steal 2020, too, but too many people voted.

Not looky, it has been admitted, twice, by Trump

[Escurumbele]

137. This is not going to be popular here but, the Democrats knew the cheating would happen, they did nothing

to prevent it.

Why the reluctance to abolish the "Electoral College", it should have been one of the first acts of the Biden administration, the same with increasing the number of judges to avoid what we have all witness in horror and will continue to do so. When Biden had the chance, why didn't he increase the number of judges in the supreme court?

Democrats have to get some "cojones" and start fighting hard, they seem to allow republicans to do whatever they want and then the only thing they do is complain and react. There is a video from Bernie Sanders about it where he points out that we need to stop feeling sorry for ourselves, stop reacting and instead become proactive. republicans have a very slim majority, Democrats must act with force, they must push back and make it loud and clear, wake the MAGAts up by showing them how republican policies are and will affect them negatively. MAGAts think that because the voted for the convicted felon that they are safe, so Democrats, wake them up.

[lees1975]

145. You are 100% right.

Knowing how much of a threat Trump was to American Democracy, when Democrats had the chance to break the filibuster and pack that damn supreme court, which would have eliminated the ridiculously unconstitutional immunity ruling, and kept Roe intact, we instead played old school status quo politics as usual. The GOP, given the same chance, would have put through a clean sweep of objectives.

Then, after basically eight years of whining, caterwauling, complaining, griping and insisting that elections were rigged, who in the world didn't get the hint that Trump and his cronies were going to rig the election in every possible way they could find, including bribery of election officials in swing states in red counties to increase their vote totals by messing with those machines they complained were programmed for the other guys.

Unfortunately, the attitude I see from many of the Democrats who did win elections is, "Oh well, I got what I wanted."

And "oh well," if that's the attitude you take, then "oh well, don't count on my vote."

We need to rid the country of this scourge forever. Get on board or get out.

[pandr32]

146. Musk didn't help in 2020.

[Doodley]

2. I find it hard to believe that we had a female candidate, but Trump gained 3% among women since the previous election..

[BadgerMom]

138. Forces favoring women's reproductive freedom--

so women, predominantly—crushed it in state special elections held in red states to protect those freedoms. Another data point.

[SharonAnn]

140. Some women thought their state's laws were enough to protect them. They didn't know

Federal court decisions and laws will override state laws.

[malaise]

3. Re the results

I remain doubting malaise

[Charging Triceratops]

4. 2024 was rigged from the start

In Pennsylvania, when comparing 2020 to 2024, Felon-47 gained in all URBAN districts. Say what?? Yes, while he lost badly, districts that went 90-10 for Biden in '20 all seemed to slip back to 82-18 or 81-19 for Harris in '24. Add all those shaved votes up and voila! A swing states goes from Blue to Red.

[John1956PA]

32. Thank you for sharing your thoughts about the PA vote.

At this point, there is no way to prove anything about the count. The margin of victory in PA was about 120,000 votes. Of course, you and I have the thought that, if nefarious forces in fact caused 60,000 votes to be flipped in the electronic tabulation, we would have a situation wherein a righteous tie went to be a fraudulent 120,000 margin for T. We will never know. There was no hand-counted audit of the electronically-tallied count, even on a sample precinct basis.

My only consoling thought is that more votes were cast in PA in the 2024 presidential contest than in 2020. Therefore, there is no evidence than ballots were made to disappear in 2024.

[Give Peace A Chance]

47. For a guy who has lied, cheated & stolen his entire life

Who's not going to believe he would do ABSOLUTELY ANYTHING to stay out of prison & as an added feature, take charge of everything??

And how do you compete with 1/4 billion $$$$$?

[Silent Type]

5. Sorry, not acting like trump or millions of GOPers who think he won in 2020. It doesn't help at this point.

Besides, why would VP Harris not call for a recount if she thought she won?

[Charging Triceratops]

6. Because she didn't want to seem like Felon-47

It's amazing, really. All their shouting and screeching about a stolen election in '20, actually served to quash protests on what was a really stolen election in '24. Add Musk's chicanery and it's a bad, bad scene.

I actually believe some insiders know that 2016 was stolen. But, you know, can't rock the boat.

[Silent Type]

8. Hope we don't develop strategy for future elections based upon not being able to accept we lost.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

26. I doubt that there will even be any future elections except for maybe sham elections like in Russia. nt

[dchill]

105. No, let's develop strategy based upon being...

... willing to pretend we lost. That ALWAYS works. It's VERY woke.

[Silent Type]

106. Pretend? We lost "bigly." You are seeing result now.

[tritsofme]

107. This Trump-style delusion and denial of reality is actually quite surreal.

[dchill]

109. You KNOW that's not true, right?

Maybe we should all change our user names to something like "well boiled frog."

[Silent Type]

110. We lost House, Senate, and Presidency? That's big to me. Didn't even win popular vote this time.

[dchill]

111. Gee! How'd THAT happen?

[yellow dahlia]

10. Yup.

I've been vocal about the 2016 election, as well.

An illegitimate president was responsible for 100's of thousands (if not 100's of millions) of deaths due to Covid.

And now an illegitimate president is destroying and pillaging our government in SO many ways.

[Maru Kitteh]

79. Bullshit. No FUCKING way Kamala would back down if it was "stolen"

She’s NOT an idiot, she’s NOT a shrinking violet and for fucks’ sake - SHE’S A FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL. She knows how to present evidence and win cases.


It wasn’t stolen. Time for people to stop soothing themselves with this nonsense and move out of the denial stages of grief to something more productive. This “Kamala the victim” narrative is useless and insulting.

[Trueblue Texan]

136. It isn't that Kamala doesn't have courage...

It’s that she has foresight to know what such a challenge would do to the nation. I think the evidence is important, and it should be examined with a commitment to getting at the truth. But if Democrats lost, we need to accept it and try to understand what it really means for our nation moving forward. Is democracy over? Probably, but I suspect it’s been barely hanging on for a long, long time. Evidence of the oligarchy is everywhere and it seems we’re just now able to see it for what it is .

[Cirsium]

163. Of course she would

How could she have fought it? Don't blame her.

Republicans have been working hard for decades to disenfranchise African American voters, to make voting more difficult for the working poor and minority populations and young people. I don't understand how Democrats can be in such denial about this.

Harris is not the victim. We are.

[Polybius]

114. So why didn't he steal 2020?

He lost fairly big Electorally.

[intheflow]

131. He didn't have the tech bros backing then.

And I think he couldn’t fudge the numbers because he was so wildly unpopular. Four years and the press never stopped sanewashing him while trashing Biden as too old turned the tides just enough to make it mildly plausible.

[LR3]

152. Future elections? LOL

There will be no free and fair future elections. Anyone that believes that we just "need to get through" the next four years and then we'll have a chance to reclaim democracy is fooling themselves.

In three short weeks, the techbros have seized control of the U.S. Treasury. It's laughable to believe they will relinquish power, ever, much less leave it to the chance of the filthy electorate, who they believe they should rule over due to their "superiority".

They will never, ever, allow the people to decide anything ever again.

[thinkingagain]

9. I think some said you had to have a reason

Such as a margin to close.

Trump just filed lawsuits with no proof
Of anythrhing

I think places he did get recounts was either close or they did it to shut him up

I also think that Kamala didn’t want to be the “ we said elections are fair - but now we lost we don’t think this one was”
All this is just a thought no facts that I can either remember for sure.

[Silent Type]

11. She -- like most Democrats -- knew she lost. It was tough, but glad she and Clinton chose not to make a scene.

[questionseverything]

55. Now the " scene " is woman dying in their cars for the need of a d&c

Outside a hospital that won’t treat them

But god forbid we hand count our ballots in full public view because “you “ think that just talking about that causes a “scene “

[Silent Type]

100. We lost.

[ReRe]

121. Not according to Greg Palast

http://www.GregPalast.com

[EdmondDantes_]

126. Weird how he doesn't actually link to any source data

He talks about how someone else shows something, but never links to it. Not exactly a convincing argument.

[ReRe]

129. Thank you. Perhaps I am too trusting. I will look-see. n/t

[intheflow]

130. Like Gore?

He won but conceded “for the good of the country.” Spoiler: he won and was cheated out of the presidency.

[Doodley]

13. I don't think she had evidence the election was stolen.

[yellow dahlia]

14. 1. Did you read the report,

"thenumbersarewrong2024, as attached to the OP?

2. What future elections?

[Butterflylady]

17. That's easy....

She is democrat.

[yaesu]

18. Its not about recount, its about 3.5 million red state voters who weren't allowed to vote or whos votes weren't counted

so yes, President Harris should be in the White House.

[Silent Type]

20. That Palast junk is even worse BS. I wish Harris were in WH too. But you gotta win first.

[questionseverything]

103. Palast is a well respected international reporter who provides evidence

Of voter suppression, of mail in ballots received after its too late to count, of national groups of repubs like, true the vote, who spend all their time getting people from democratic leaning areas kicked off the voter rolls so it’s puzzling to see nameless, faceless internet personas, who claim to support the people palast champions saying,”his junk is bs”

[Silent Type]

104. Well respected by who/whom?

[ReRe]

122. Again, check him out

http://www.GregPalast.com

If you don't believe the OP, check out other opinions. Might broaden your mind.

Just a suggestion.

[Silent Type]

144. I've read his inaccurate BS since 2016. He has no proof and believes that anyone purged from voter rolls were

itching to vote but was denied at polls. That just doesn't happen.

I've been purged at least 4 times, and voted in another district where I moved. Plus, he seems to assume all the votes would go for Democrats. Fact is, very few -- if any -- purged voters turn up at polls to be told they can't vote. It's all BS.

[ReRe]

175. OK. Silent Type. You need to live up to your name

and be a little more silent sometimes. Have you ever heard of the phrase "Where there's smoke, there's fire"? It's an old saying & only if you have the advantage of decades of experience at watching the antics of certain individuals in and around our society & government, could you understand it and know that it is a true statement. Thusly, I can only assume you are young and/or just the arguing type. I'm neither, and I have too many important issues on my mind than to spend another moment conversing with you on this subject. I bid you good day & best wishes.

[Silent Type]

182. I'm 75 and tired of our government not delivering, that goes for our party too.

[ReRe]

183. I lied. I will continue since that was your reply.

First off, I can't believe you're 75.
Second, exactly what do you expect the Democratic Party &/or "our government" to "deliver" for/to you?
I get a distinct scent of smoke around your words here and before in this thread. Here they depict a tad of greed in them.
And before they depict your outright hatred of Greg Palast.

Silent type, this country has a 2-party system. It's all we've had from the very beginning. You're either in one or the other.

I digress, unless you really do want to continue to "shoot yourself in your foot", so to speak.

[Silent Type]

184. Your point? I want to win, and I'm ticked we lost, yet people want to promote Palast's BS

as the reason we lost. He’s full of it and, IMO, appeals to those who won’t or can’t accept the truth.

trump was the most beatable candidate in history, and we are supposed to blame the media, rigged votes, Palast type suppression junk, musk finagled voter systems, etc.

The heck with that. Get real or we’ll lose again.

We have a 2 party system, but beginning this summer, we can change the Democratic party in upcoming primaries, unless we blame all the wrong things.

And, I too “get a distinct scent of smoke around your words.”

[ReRe]

185. You're a soar loser, then. n/t

[Liberal In Texas]

128. Me, for one.

And from his site:

I rarely make a big deal about my own credentials but, since the election, the Web has been flooded by amateur, arithmetic-defying speculation about computer hacking and other unsupported twaddle. Best to stick to hard, verifiable data. And that’s what I do.

For two decades, I was a forensic economist for government agencies including the US Justice Department; taught statistics at Indiana University; provided expert calculations of vote suppression for the ACLU, NAACP, and RainbowPUSH and won the Global Editors Award for my data journalism on vote suppression measurements for reports done for Al Jazeera, BBC, Rolling Stone and The Guardian. The numbers you get here are exactly what I’d present to a Federal court. In other words, kids, don’t do this at home…calculating the “un-count” requires expertise.

[EdmondDantes_]

127. No he absolutely doesn't present evidence

He presents claims and never links to source data.

[Cirsium]

165. Never mind Palast

Palast is an easy target. He does the immense public service of keeping this issue alive. But never mind him.

The Impact of Voter Suppression on Communities of Color

Over the past decade, scholars have studied myriad ways in which certain state voting rules make participation disproportionately difficult for Americans of color — including strict voter ID laws, lines faced on Election Day, and other facets of our election system. This analysis catalogs some of the most prominent research findings on the negative impact of voting restrictions on voters of color.

https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/impact-voter-suppression-communities-color

Black People Are Getting Removed From Voter Rolls And More Purges Could Be On The Way

“Protecting Voter Registration: An Assessment of Voter Purge Policies in Ten States,” a new report from Dēmos, the public policy think tank with a strong commitment to racial justice, attempts to explain how this practice can “create unnecessary burdens on the right to vote.”

Arizona, California, Georgia, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, North Carolina, Ohio, Texas and Wisconsin were selected as the ten states used as the basis for this analysis because their policies were considered to be the most representative of the gamut of voter policies across the country. Also of note, many of their state legislatures are considering or have recently passed laws around voter purging.

During last year’s legislative session, 43 bills were introduced by state lawmakers that would “allow or require problematic voter purges, and in 2023, as of the writing of this report, states are considering at least 28 additional bills.”

https://www.essence.com/news/demos-study-voter-purges/

Block the Vote: How Politicians are Trying to Block Voters from the Ballot Box

Voting should be as easy and accessible as possible, and in many cases it is. But in recent years, more than 400 anti-voter bills have been introduced in 48 states. These bills erect unnecessary barriers for people to register to vote, vote by mail, or vote in person. The result is a severely compromised democracy that doesn’t reflect the will of the people. Our democracy works best when all eligible voters can participate and have their voices heard.

https://www.aclu.org/news/civil-liberties/block-the-vote-voter-suppression-in-2020

Disenfranchisement and Suppression of Black Voters in the United States

The disenfranchisement of Black Americans has long outlasted the end of the Civil War, with modern instances of voter suppression in the form of limitations on absentee and early voting, stricter voter ID requirements, restrictions on voter registration, and other systemic barriers that decrease the voting engagement of minority populations. Today, Black voter disenfranchisement primarily takes the form of voting restrictions for incarcerated individuals. Systemic barriers such as gerrymandering, voting regulations for imprisoned persons, voter ID laws, lack of access to polling locations, and other examples contribute to the disenfranchisement of racial and ethnic minorities in the United States. This disenfranchisement has serious implications on election outcomes, representative government policy, and racial tensions. Two potential avenues may alleviate this issue: organizations to target legislative policies that uphold disenfranchisement, and supportive policy (including ranked-choice voting and expanded voting rights for racial minorities).

https://ballardbrief.byu.edu/issue-briefs/disenfranchisement-and-suppression-of-black-voters-in-the-united-states

Voter Roll Purges Underway Ahead of the Election

As we are entering the final days of a momentous presidential election campaign, hopes of a free and fair election are waning. Two of the main devices for unfairly tilting the scales in favor of Republican candidates — namely racial gerrymandering and voter suppression— are being fully operationalized. As evidenced by DOJ’s legal challenge of Virginia’s recent voter roll purges, several key states are unhesitant about suppressing votes. In an election that is going to be decided by a relative “handful” of voters, such tactics must be immediately challenged.

https://www.socialworkblog.org/advocacy/2024/10/voter-roll-purges-underway-ahead-of-the-election/

The Silent War on Black Voters: A Deep Dive into Recent Voter Purges

Welcome to the silent war—a war waged not with guns and bombs but with laws and purges. This war targets Black voters, stripping them of their voice in the democratic process. It’s not just a political issue; it’s a human rights crisis, deeply rooted in the history of anti-Black politics.

Voter purges are like a snake in the grass. They’re hard to see until they strike. These systematic efforts to remove voters from registration lists often blur the line between legal and illegal actions. Legal purges update voter rolls, removing deceased or relocated individuals. Illegal purges often target specific demographics, like Black voters, under the guise of “cleaning up” the rolls. This is a modern manifestation of America’s long history of denying racial freedom.

The silent war on Black voters is real, and it’s happening now. But knowledge is power. We’ve got to arm ourselves with information and fight back. Democracy depends on it. It’s about the future of Black communities across America, communities that have shown astonishing strength and resilience throughout history.

https://www.africanelements.org/news/the-silent-war-on-black-voters-a-deep-dive-into-recent-voter-purges/

[Frank D. Lincoln]

24. False equivalency.

They didn't have the statistical anomalies I cited (or something comparable) backing up their claim.

All they had was Trump's Big Lie that the 2020 election was rigged.

These situations are not even remotely the same.

[tritsofme]

60. lol, their conspiracy theories had all the same sort of nonsense. This is the exact same as Trump's election denialism.

[Cirsium]

164. That is no accident

Trump repeatedly accuses Democrats of doing what he and the Republicans are doing. That has been very effective.

[yellow dahlia]

7. I was glad to see this report last night.

Keep sharing it!

Some of this information has been the topic of discussion on this forum.

And some of us were calling for paper ballot hand recounts, after the election. And some of us were told "we lost" and "get over it."

I'm not over it. If we can prove Musk and the grifter committed a crime(s), then what?

[Butterflylady]

12. I wouldn't put anything past musk.....

Greasing palms would be easy for him and his knowledge with computers now is well-known. How do we know what he spent 250 million, maybe he spent half a billion dollar. He was giving away 1 million a day.

Look what he got for it, he's now got a lot of information he didn't have before, like personal info on all of us, especially those who work for the government.

He won all the swing states, no I'm not buying, he needed to make sure dump won. What better way to spend money.

[edhopper]

16. You have to wonder

Were those 10 million extra votes in 2020 too much for their cheating to handle, and that is why Biden beat their scheme?

[SnoopDog]

19. Trump is an illegitimate president

They had 4 years to put the fix in and they succeeded.

They 'won' by voter suppression. The packed stolen illegitimate Supreme Court decided on their own to remove voter suppression reviews on certain states. The Constitution does not say that the Supreme Court can MAKE LAW.

So red states purged 4+ million voters - mostly Dem voters. They targeted Blacks, Hispanics, and younger people.

A lawsuit would prove that these voters were purged.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

35. Excellent point.

And yet some people still insist that Kamala legitimately lost and that we should get over it.

I'll say it again, in my opinion Kamala Harris won the 2024 presidential election but it was stolen from her.

In my opinion, those statistical anomalies shouldn't just be brushed off.

[Karasu]

37. Hell, he was an illegitimate CANDIDATE. He wasn't even legally allowed to run, so he's illegitimate by default.

This country simply chose not to enforce the fucking law, as it so often does.

[SnoopDog]

41. Excellent point - Trump committed an insurrection

The corrupt Supreme Court is also illegitimate.

[ReRe]

123. Also, bomb threats all over the place. n/t

[Dan]

21. I really don't know what happened, but I do know this

If I run your data through my database/application - I will get the results that I want regardless of what you want.

[JanMichael]

22. If Al Gore refused to go all the way in then I can't blame Harris.

2000 was the first of the massive election machine and vote counting attacks by Republicans.

[Hope22]

28. Al Gore collected money for a recount...

…didn’t do it! Didn’t refund the money. First problem. The crap that went down in Ohio was beyond crazy! Second problem.

[ificandream]

23. If that website is Palast's doing, I'd be suspicious.

He's a conspiracy theorist. I do believe things were messed with, but I don't know Palast is the one to prove it.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

39. This is from the website I linked to in the OP.

This site is the product of countless hours of hard work from passionate volunteers and engaged citizens. We've gathered and validated data with the help of experts, and our goal is simple: to make this information easy to find, understand, and share with everyone who’s interested.

Whether or not any of those experts is Palast, they didn't say. But I don't think it makes sense to assume Palast was involved unless you can find on that website that they used him as a source. If they did, I haven't personally seen it.

[ificandream]

150. It sounds like what he'd be saying.

I realize that's weak, but that's where my suspicion comes from, for what it's worth.

[Frank D. Lincoln]

155. You're definitely entitled to your suspicion and opinion. No apologies needed.

I wish you well, my friend, in these dark times.

[live love laugh]

120. Just because it's a conspiracy doesn't mean it's not true.

[ificandream]

151. I'd give it low credence unless there was absolute solid proof.

[ReRe]

124. Where is it proven that Greg Palast is a conspiracy theorist?

And by whom? Thanks in advance, as I really would like to know.

[ificandream]

153. I've never seen any of Palast's stuff go beyond his audience.

He's never been used as any source material for anything I've seen. I put more credence in Seth Abramson, for example. His books on Trump (I have 3) are outstanding. And then there's Malcolm Nance, whose stuff is also fantastic.

Palast also plays the "reporter" game, wearing the hat to make people think he's a journalist. Real journalists don't put signs on their necks (or heads).

[live love laugh]

156. Your entire argument is based on your biases and preferences.

YOU have never seen his work ….

YOU think he plays “the reporter game” ….

YOU wouldn’t give credence to his claims….

[EdmondDantes_]

167. Requiring source evidence isn't a bias

It's pretty standard. He claims to get information from other sources that he named, but there's nothing indicating that those sources actually said the thing he did. For example he doesn't cite anything related to the Washington state audit that found a black voter is 400% more likely to have their mail in vote rejected. Ignoring that Washington is a Democratic state and ignoring that he doesn't say what the base comparison is to know if it's say 1 in 10 white voters compared to 4 in 10 black voters, or 1 in 1 million compared to 4 in 1 million, Palast never links to the audit.

A google search comes back to the Palast article posted on multiple sites, but not anything associated with Washington state. You want to believe what he's selling. That's the bias. Those of us asking for source evidence are asking for the basics needed to believe something.

[live love laugh]

169. Once again you overlook the facts and grasp at loopholes.

Perfectionism is the enemy of progress.

[speak easy]

25. If we don't win the election was stolen.

Where have I 'herd' that before?

[FoxNewsSucks]

42. Sometimes it's true.

Ask Al Gore. Or Hillary Clinton.

[RandySF]

27. No

[FoxNewsSucks]

43. Yes.

[obamanut2012]

80. Yes

[Karasu]

29. Musk has more money and resources than anyone, and after 2020, there's no way Trump would settle for anything less than

a 100% guaranteed victory. It's not in his character.

There's no doubt in my mind Musk did something on his behalf to ensure that outcome. They've practically admitted as much on multiple occasions now.

[jalan48]

30. Can't disagree.

[godsentme]

31. Agree

He cheated in 2016 and 2020. He was facing jail time in 2024. Yeah, he cheated.

[stillcool]

33. scrambled braincells

I wonder how many people who have issues with contemplating the theft of votes over the past half century live in those same states that make voting so difficult, and stealing elections a source of pride.

[Evolve Dammit]

34. Musk had the vote counting tech that Drumpf was raving about. And zero recounts. Just rolled over.

[The Wizard]

36. What was the undercount in swing states?

Louis DeJoy has some explaining to do.

[Mr. Ected]

38. In retrospect, should Harris have echoed Trump's assertion that, if she lost, she would challenge the results?

I still firmly believe that 2016 was stolen from Hillary and I'm dead certain that the Steele Dossier was 100% on point.

With that as her backdrop, as well as 4 years of false claims by Trump about a stolen 2020 election, she could have doubled down and put it on the record that she, too, would challenge the results if she lost.

We'll never know.

[Karasu]

49. Well, Hillary won in 2016, by the only metric that SHOULD matter--but unfortunately doesn't in this fucking country.

That said, when Russia meddled in Romania's recent election, they redid the entire fucking thing. Back in 2016, even Facebook admitted to pushing Russian propaganda.

That was the time.

[Grumpy Old Guy]

40. Yes!

[Mr.Bee]

44. I Wish This Were Bigger News

and more MSM attention than it's getting!

[FoxNewsSucks]

45. Absolutely. Only an utter idiotic fool

would think that Musk, tRump, Putin and all the republicons won fairly, without cheating manipulating lying or stealing. Nope, no dirty tricks from them.

Sure.

[tritsofme]

61. So Harris, Biden, Marc Elias, all Democratic elected officials are "utter idiotic fools"

because they don’t buy into your silly Trump-style conspiracy theory? lol

[intheflow]

172. I preached about rising fascism 20 years ago.

Posted it on DU and had several members berate me for being alarmist. Just because they’re leaders doesn’t mean they have a firm grasp of everything that’s happening. In fact, there’s even a term for political myopia: “inside the beltway mindset.” Basically, they get so wrapped up in DC political culture that people outside that closed system are rubes who couldn’t possibly understand the complexities they deal with so they don’t really need to listen to us. Consider: believing Cheney’s lies about Iraq being the cause of 9-11, and all Dems who voted for that illegal war. I mean, FFS, I lived in Colorado and got all my news from DU and I knew there were no WMDs in Iraq, why the fuck didn’t Hillary or John Kerry know that? Because of the hubris that they were inside the beltway and knew better than us rubes.

[GoreWon2000]

46. The stolen Presidential election was in 2000 in Florida

From 2000, there are enough uncounted votes in Florida that sit uncounted in the Florida archives to change the outcome of that election. It's several hundred thousand uncounted Florida votes located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties in Florida to be more exact It was the Bush brothers all out assault on American democracy in Florida that started well before election day 2000 and culminated with the Rehnquist 5 rubberstamping the Bush brothers all out assault on American democracy that created the mess that our country is now in. I'm so familiar with this and continue to be outraged by it because 15 of my 24 years spent working on dem election campaigns were spent in Florida. tRump tried to run the same Bush brothers assault on democracy in 2020 but he failed.
I don't see any evidence from the OP that there are enough uncounted votes in enough states for there to be a comparison between 2000 and 2024 to the point to be able to say that the 2024 election was stolen like the 2000 election was stolen.

[madville]

48. Democrats couldn't contest the election results

All Democratic politicians spent four years promoting the integrity of the election process after 2020. This simply put almost all Democrats in a position of not being able to question the results, officially or in the media.

[andym]

50. Both the exit polling and the immediate polls before the election do not support this conclusion

How is this different from Trump claiming he won in 2020 due to "fraud."

[SnoopDog]

53. They prevented people from voting all together...

That won’t show up in an exit poll…

[andym]

56. But it will show up in general polling as well as opinion polls about the Democratic Party

which were not good before the election (43% in Gallop for example) and worse now. That's not to say that voter suppression doesn't play it's part-- whether it's enough to change outcomes when Trump won the national vote by 2M votes is questionable.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/24655/party-images.aspx

[SnoopDog]

58. Polling means nothing.

It’s the votes that counts.

[andym]

59. Polling informs us of trends, it just doesn't ultimately count toward winning an election

But not understanding trends leads to losing due to lack of focus on what folks most care about.

[SnoopDog]

62. Do you really think you can trust polls nowdays?

I can't even watch the News stations or read the newspapers anymore given that they are all run by the wealthy..

[andym]

74. "Trust" is too strong a word for polls, rather take them as potentially valid but imprecise data points

given the variability in their methods and statistical nature. It's likely that modern polls are better than older ones, but with huge caveats due to people being polled not participating or lying. That doesn't mean they should be ignored or considered worthless. It is especially valuable not to dismiss polls if they disagree with how we would like to think things are.

[tritsofme]

63. Well votes were counted, and even states run up and down by Democrats like PA and MI were lost.

Sorry, these Trump-style conspiracy theories are garbage.

[SnoopDog]

65. You cannot count votes that were suppressed by voter suppression...

Sorry, I am not a weak Democrat...

[tritsofme]

66. Why did the Democrats who run those states suppress votes?

This is just silly.

[SnoopDog]

67. They didn't. It was republican operatives...

[tritsofme]

68. So your argument is that the Democrats who run those states are so incompetent

that they let Republicans, out of power, take away votes in the very states where we were in charge?

Again, all of this is incredibly silly.

[SnoopDog]

69. Your 'dems run the state' is a canard...

The fact remains that over 4 million Dem voters were purged by Republican operatives.

trump is an illegitimate president.

[tritsofme]

70. It's not a "canard" it is simply the truth. This concept can be quite difficult for folks who are susceptible

to embracing Trump-style conspiracy theories.

[SnoopDog]

75. Well, I am not a weak Democrat... I fight for the truth

Once again, over 4 million Dem voters were purged from swing state voter rolls....

This is not a conspiracy theory...this is fact.

Tell me, are you thinking that removing 4 million Dem voters would have zero effect on the 2024 election?

[tritsofme]

76. Nope, this is just Trump-style election denialism. No different at all.

Again, you can’t explain why Democratic officials who ran states like Michigan from top to bottom, simply allowed Republicans to “steal” the election.

[SnoopDog]

77. So 4 million purged Dem voters had no effect on the election...ok got it...

[tritsofme]

81. So no crack at explaining why Democratic elected officials sat back and let it happen?

Unsupported conspiracy theory nonsense.

[SnoopDog]

82. So no crack at explaining 4 million purged Dem voters?

Got it.

[tritsofme]

83. Do you have a single report of a purged voter who was unable to cast ballot in 2024?

And again, why did Michigan Democrats allow that to happen?

[SnoopDog]

87. Oink...

[tritsofme]

92. lol, so I guess we'll take that as a hard "no"

[forthemiddle]

171. In Wisconsin (a major swing state)

Wisconsin has same day registration, so even if a voter was purged they could immediately reregister and vote the same day. It would not be a provisional ballot, it would count, so the purging of voters would not affect the outcome.

[questionseverything]

176. If they had id with the new address

[Wiz Imp]

97. And your evidence for that is???? Palast makes the claim but does not provide any supporting evidence.

You're actually doing the people behind this report a dis-service by trying to link them to Palast. This report doesn't even make any reference to purged voters. They actually present some solid evidence of what they feel are questionable numbers. But they don't try to blame it on unsupported conspiracy theories like Palast.

[MichMan]

72. I can't figure that out either

Why would elected Michigan officials like Gretchen Whitmer, AG Dana Nessel, and SOS Jocelyn Benson sit idly by when votes were suppressed? Makes zero sense.

[tritsofme]

73. Maybe these folks can hire Sidney Powell to do some digging? I hear she's looking for work.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

99. Because it didnt happen here

Prior to the election, the gop tried suing the State and Benson for not purging the voter rolls and lost.

[MichMan]

78. Out of 4 million, it should be easy to find at least a couple million who showed up to vote and were denied

Where are they?

[E. Normus]

135. well, actually

it's who is counting the votes that counts!

[Polybius]

113. Then how did I vote?

It's real easy to vote if you have the smarts to do it.

[lostnfound]

181. What exit polling? Edison doesn't share the raw data

They only show “adjusted” numbers that are tweaked until they equal the reported results.

These adjustments started after 2000 and were never needed in the 1960s-1990s.

Edison has also cut back dramatically in the scale, only polls swing states, and is opaque in every way.

[bluestarone]

51. Maybe time to put out 10 million dollar reward for any info that results in conviction (secret name)

of TWO leaders of the white house? It would be worth it, if right lawyers got this info. (i would donate)

[MineralMan]

52. This is a dead end.

It cannot succeed. More important fights are imminent.

[SnoopDog]

57. No, this is not a dead end.

Over 4 million Dem voters were purged. They had 4 years to figure out how to remove the correct number of Dem voters from the rolls. The Republicans ’won’ by removing voters ability to vote. That won’t show up in recounts.

Trump is an illegitimate president. We need to reference him by ‘illegitimate President trump’ every time we reference him.

People will catch on to this and drive the repubs bonkers.

[Ontheboundry]

88. You think republicana care?

That's odd, I find they don't gaf about us even a little

[biophile]

95. It's possible to do two things at once

Get ready and fight the current fights, and
Do a review of the election to see what happened and how to prevent it in the future

[Initech]

54. 100% something doesn't pass the smell test. Made even worse by the events of the last two weeks.

Trump is a fucking criminal traitor, aided by criminals like Elon Musk, Steve Bannon and Alex Jones. And criminal organizations like the Heritage Foundation, Fox News, and Federalist Society. They are the enemy within.

[C Moon]

64. It shows how weak our system is. If the true winner

can’t take the Whitehouse, then something is broken.

[B.See]

71. and we know WHO broke it, and WHY.

[keepthemhonestO]

84. 100 cosign

[R0ckyRac00n]

85. "I don't know how they did it, but in my opinion..."

Is it too much to hope that at least one side could be driven by facts? She lost. I hate it, but I've had enough conversations with people in the south and southwest to come to grip with their insane allegiance and shallowness of others who think we were doing "really good' back during 45's disastrous administration. The answers lie in human stupidity, shallowness, and viciousness, not in a secret cabal that rigged the machines.

[ZRB]

96. Beautifully stated

So much this.

[Self Esteem]

86. Do you think Josh Shapiro and Gretchen Whitmer were in on the steal?

Maybe they didn't want Harris to win because that would torpedo their chances in 2028.

i'M jUsT aSkInG qUeStIoNs

[oasis]

89. Well worth looking into, especially when Trump's

mismanagement begins to tank the economy. People will listen.

[WarGamer]

90. None of that is *evidence*

[totodeinhere]

91. If what you allege is true, why didn't Harris and other Democratic leaders contest the election results?

The Democrats had an army of lawyers ready to go just in case there were any indications whatsoever that there were irregularities in the election, yet they took no action. That tells me that there was no legitimate case to contest the election. The Harris campaign campaigned its heart out. Everyone knew that the stakes were high. Yet you are suggesting that in spite of everything they just rolled over and played dead? I don't think so. I will give Kamala and our other Democratic leaders more credit than that. Plus there is the issue of how would stealing the election right under everyone's nose even be possible. You said you don't know how the election was stolen. You just have an opinion that it was. You have got to do better than that.

[Joinfortmill]

102. I don't know, but I do know this, she was eerily

silent after her loss. And, at Jimmy Carter's funeral, she didn't look like a candidate that loss a fair fight. She was livid. So, my take is there is something we don't yet know.

[Wiz Imp]

93. This isn't worth spending too much time on, but I will make a few comments.

First of all, I give the person or persons behind this credit for presenting actual real data that can be analyzed, Something that Palast and others did not do. The biggest weakness however, is that while they are able to show that some results seemed suspicious based on prior history, they still cannot connect it to any specific actions that would prove the results are not legitimate.

They mention the bomb threats, which I believe unquestionably were made to interfere with the election results. Unfortunately, they do not present any evidence that those bomb threats actually impacted the results in those locations where they were made. It may make sense that they had an impact, but they only show 2020 results for those locations, not 2024 so one can't even make a cursory analysis of any potential impact.

They say this was the first election in 40 years where one candidate won all swing states. The problem with that is that the swing states in 2024 were not all swing states in 1984 or 2004 or necessarily any other year. Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina were solid Republican, not swing states until very recently. Considering Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin all voted Democratic in every election between 1992 & 2012, it's hard to call them swing states during that period as well. States that were swing states in past year but not 2024 include Florida, Iowa and Ohio. I think this renders the swing state theory as they present it rather meaningless.

Finally, the OP says "recounts in two or three well-chosen swing states and asked her voters to pay for it, and if those recounts had happened, then I'm convinced that a coup would have been exposed." Unfortunately, none of the data presented here implies that a recount would have yielded a different result. If the data here is evidence of election tampering, it seems to be with interference which would not be uncovered by a simple recount. Besides, I firmly believe if there were any remotely solid evidence that a recount could have changed a result, a recount would have been called for and paid for.

[JoseBalow]

94. Do you also believe in Sasquatch, gods, and the Loch Ness Monster?

Or do some things require evidence?

[Emile]

98. Why would you believe that someone four years

who orchestrated an insurrection, is capable of stealing the next election?

NEVER MIND, I feel like he stolen it too. He won every battleground state, no way!

[Joinfortmill]

101. Yup. And someone knows something.

[Ursus Rex]

108. Cry, havoc.

The dogs of war are already set loose. This is gonna get uglier.

[Bayard]

112. I look at what the orange freak said about, "You'll never have to vote again,"

And the way he was acting towards the end, like he could do whatever he felt like because he already had the election in the bag. I look at how Musk acted throughout the campaign, and what he's doing now. Musk is a fascist asshole, but he's a smart one. I can see him telling trump to just sit back and let him take care of things. I'm also thinking about Musk's kids currently playing in the Treasury systems, and wondering what they may have done with vote tabulating.

I understand Dems not wanting to act like trump in 2020. But I'd sure like to know there are good people quietly investigating what actually happened.

As I've quoted many times--If you're not paranoid, you're not paying attention.

[Duppers]

116. Plus, ponder how confident

Trump, Musk, et al were acting after the election/pre-count.

[Polybius]

115. Can we move this to the Dungeon?

It belongs more in Creative Speculation than here.

[Celerity]

117. Creative Speculation is a retired forum, no more posting allowed

[krawhitham]

118. "if Kamala Harris had simply demanded recounts" You need to be within a margin to DEMAND a recount. She wasn't

She could have tried to sue for a recount, how did that work out for trump last time? He lost every lawsuit

[krawhitham]

119. So no proof then?

[Takket]

125. All these conspiracy theories miss one key point.

Exit polling. Done by the media of voters as they leave the polling place. You can’t hack that. You can’t hack actually asking people who they voted for. And the exit polling matches up with the results. If you had had exit polling say “hey Kamala is ahead in Michigan!” And she ends up losing. Now you have a problem.

[hamsterjill]

132. I will say what I always say here

I don’t know how it happened. I don’t have any evidence.

But every fiber of my being knows that something just isn’t right.

[Botany]

133. Of course she won

My guesses on what happened:

On the front end @ least 3.5 million voters were removed by republican challengers in prior to the election
probably many more than the 3.5 million. Greg Plaast.

Musk and the GRU were into the central tabulators. Trump, “Musk was very good at controlling the
vote counting computers.”

[paulrevere2018]

134. Couple this with the massive vote suppression

That kept millions of rightful voters (vast majority being POC) from casting or having their ballot counted.

[Beck23]

139. Voter suppression

I think she lost because 3.5 M voters were removed from the rolls prior to the election in swing states. If they voted, they had to use a provision ballot 42% of those are discarded.

[live love laugh]

170. More than 3.5 million were removed.

[Mountainguy]

141. Pure fantasy

This isn't helpful in any way.

We lost. Denying that isn't going to help.

[SCantiGOP]

159. Amazing how liberal Democrats can morph

Into 2020 MAGA reality-deniers in just a few weeks.

[Mountainguy]

161. Not all that surprising

Horseshoe theory and all.

But it's striking.

Election denial
Conspiracies
Succession talk
Doomsday Prepping
Purity tests and circular firing squads

I've seen it all.

[LittleGirl]

142. Did she not raise a billion dollars?

Where is that money and why wasn’t it used for a recount? The results of 2024 do not add up and I hate math. I’m terrible with math but I don’t believe for a second that 45 won all of the swing states. Elon did it. What happened to that billon dollars?

[Richluu]

143. I totally agree

All the psychics agree too. They say a vote counting center in the Midwest and in New Jersey were compromised. And trump had 600,00 bullet ballots....

[judesedit]

147. It ain't over yet. The steal was huge and implicated a lot of people and countries

I think it will be exposed asap for the results desired and to get the asshole out of the White House. Ultimately, his own people will be the ones to do it.

Don't give up and don't give the negativity your attention. It only adds to it. Care for yourself and do fun stuff. Love your family.

Hang in there. It's not over. Kamala did win. Mho

[dchill]

148. Where we are at this juncture:

"You'll never have to vote again."

[usonian]

149. Trmp Lost. Vote Suppression Won. By Greg Palast for the Hartmann Report

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100219947040

[Jeebo]

154. I agree that this election does not pass the smell test.

There are so many ways in which Republicans CHEAT, out in the open, in plain view, and then try to cover it up with bluster and bullying and rationalizations and excuses, that I can easily believe that they're perfectly willing to CHEAT in hidden, subterfuge, cleverly disguised, difficult-to-discover ways.

— Ron

[dlilafae]

157. We had four years to trump proof the US

and we blew it.

[debsy]

158. Absolutely, 100%, could not agree more!

I’ve been thinking this since Election night. I had a sick feeling in my gut before then that this would be the reality.

[Greybnk48]

160. This is the 3rd election where they've gamed the votes. Why are we ready to let it pass AGAIN?

This is a lawless renegade cabal and we need to do something drastic this time.

[Cirsium]

162. Absolutely

8 years of Trump and his sycophants bellowing about rigged elections? That is part of a pattern, a strategy: always accuse your opponents of doing what you yourself are actually doing.

Trump tricked Democrats into vigorously defending the integrity of elections, while the Republicans continued to do everything they could to rig them. It was well played, and it worked.

[BurnDoubt]

166. I agree 100%

It was Rigged. They Lied. History will Be re-Written. Entropy Ensues. Poo-Tee-Weet.

[czarjak]

168. The Vlad Plan

Worked better than even he could have dreamed.

[alarimer]

173. This is not helpful.

We cannot win by being as divorced from reality as they are.

[FoxNewsSucks]

174. Remember,

[questionseverything]

177. Ain't it the truth

[AZJonnie]

178. This thread overall is freaking depressing

But that's all I'll say about it.

[MaeScott]

179. Pubbies been stealing elections since 2000

and in the South, black votes were always stolen. Elmo just made sure of the outcome among all the many ways pubbies cook the vote. You see they always voted against vote protection and reform legislation.

[ReRe]

180. I don't need to, but I will anyway, kick & rec your post

I agree with you 100% Frank D. Lincoln. Too many anomalies.
And Statistics are like DNA. They don't lie.
Bookmarked!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

186. We

We need to find out how they manipulated the exit polls to make it appear Trump won.