Fetterman supports US occupation of Gaza

[muriel_volestrangler]

NYtimes:

Outside the Senate chamber in the Capitol, Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania, who is known as one of the most staunchly pro-Israel Democrats in the Senate, called President Trump’s remarks “provocative,” but said that he would support a potential American occupation of the Gaza Strip, adding that Palestinians for years have “refused or have been unwilling to deliver a government that provided security and economic development for themselves.”

This guy has turned into a complete disaster. It should be unnecessary to point out that a US occupation of Gaza would make Fallujah look like a Scout jamboree.

The Democrats today have been bringing the fire almost across the board — even Schumer sounded sort of passionate — but we can’t afford any Vichy Democrats and Fetterman is trending badly in that direction if he isn’t already there.

. . . didn’t realize Fetterman was also the only Democrat to vote for Pam Bondi for AG today. I think we can scratch the “if he isn’t already there.”

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2025/02/fetterman-supports-us-occupation-of-gaza

[ShadesOfBlue]

1. Of course he does

What a monster

[WiVoter]

2. WTF Happened To Him?

Sickening

[True Blue American]

3. Just revealing what he really is!

[JohnSJ]

57. That is exactly right. It should be a lesson about populists. They talk

a good game but in the end disappoint.

[Ponietz]

5. He's mentally unstable

It’s on the record.

[Pris]

8. I never really liked him

He was better than Oz but he was never great.
I think he is cozying up to Trump.

[Deminpenn]

12. Jmo, but the Tree of Life synagogue shooting

happened during Fetterman's transition from Braddock mayor to lt gov. That tragedy deeply affected everyone in western PA. The shooter's motive was just pure hate. I suspect that incident just created a blind spot toward Israel.

[ShadesOfBlue]

56. Did he recall...

that the shooter was reportedly inspired by Trump rhetoric?

[Deminpenn]

63. That info came out later

And honestly it doesn't even matter. Unless you lived in the area when this all happened, it's hard to describe just how traumatic it was for everyone.

I don't recall Israel being a big issue for Fetterman prior to the shooting. But this unequivocal support for Israel seems to be something that no one is going to change his belief about.

[mopinko]

13. brain damage.

personality changes after strokes happen and they’re rarely pretty.

[Woodycall]

15. I think so too

[AStern]

66. He's a Wolf in Cargo Pants

and a trust-funder too boot.

[Walleye]

4. Does he think his constituents want us to send troops to Gaza?

[rampartd]

14. not troops, jews. all of them

trump's evangelical base are all rapture ready and prepping for the end of the world.

[Bread and Circuses]

6. The Hoodie person in the Senate is a demagogue

This certain gym dressing senator supports war and genocide. Make sure you don’t donate to his campaign.

And don’t jump on me.

I support Israel’s right to defend itself. I want all people to have a homeland, safety and happy life.
I want Peace. But, this situation has been manipulated for YEARS to enrich the corporate military machine and line the pockets of evil people.

Less clear is why is the US supporting a person who The Hague has issued a warrant to arrest for war crimes.

The Israeli people do want a two state solution, they have marched in the streets to remove this person. But corruption keeps him in charge.

The same is happening to the US.
Time to call out the evil people.

The blood of innocents is on our hands and we are seeing how the greed and cruelty has taken over our country and will topple the democracy.


https://apnews.com/article/icc-israel-hamas-warrants-netanyahu-palestinian-arrest-73c854d072e0a1a41b19b2cb2cdd07fa

[Mossfern]

34. Israelis want a two state solution

but Palestinians don't.
How does one reconcile that?

[AloeVera]

39. How I wish that were true about Israel!!

Poll after poll shows they don't. Likud never wanted it and worked to sabotage it at every turn for decades.

Only 3% of Jewish Israelis think that Trump's ethnic cleansing plan for Gaza is immoral. I feel for that 3%, it must be hell for them to know their fellows have so little conscience or moral backbone.

More than 8 out of 10 Jewish Israelis think the ethnic cleansing plan is either practical or desirable.

https://jppi.org.il/en/%d7%a1%d7%a7%d7%a8-%d7%94%d7%97%d7%91%d7%a8%d7%94-%d7%94%d7%99%d7%a9%d7%a8%d7%90%d7%9c%d7%99%d7%aa-%d7%9c%d7%97%d7%95%d7%93%d7%a9-%d7%a4%d7%91%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%90%d7%a8-%d7%a8%d7%95%d7%91-%d7%92%d7%93/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

Shifting Views on Population Transfer Overall, the idea of significantly relocating Gaza’s Palestinian population—once considered illegitimate by many Israelis—now enjoys broad support among Jewish Israelis. When there is opposition, it is typically based on practicality (“a distraction”) rather than principle.

Surveys conducted in the 1990s and mid-2000s on the transfer of Palestinians from the West Bank generally found support levels of 40–50% among Jewish Israelis.

How do you reconcile that - morally, legally, democratically? How do you make a two-state or even negotiate with people who want you GONE and forgotten?

[Sundance1220]

50. Palestinians NEVER wanted a 2 state solution

which is why they chose war each and every time it was in the cards including in 1948. So you can blame Israel all you want but that is historically inaccurate.

[AloeVera]

53. Palestinians did not choose war in 1948.

They were too busy being massacred, expelled, made into refugees from their own homeland. Their villages burned.

Everything since then has been the outcome of that original, unacknowledged, never-rectified sin against them.

A long time ago - when there was still a peace-and-justice seeking "left" in Israel - a solution was possible.

That Israel has not existed for decades and now never will again - barring some miraculous rehumanization of "the Arabs" and a lightning strike from God reawakening the throttled conscience of Israelis.

[Sundance1220]

62. They and their Arab neighbors

Chose war. The ottomans didn't set up a state. Neither did the British mandate. Only the UN but since they thought they could drive the Jews into the sea, they WENT TO WAR instead. And lost. And lost again and again. That's what happens when terrorists are your leaders and you are, by far, the weaker party. Almost a million Jews were driven out of Arab countries so I consider that a wash.

[AloeVera]

64. Israel didn't abide by the terms of the Partition.

Forcible transfer aka ethnic cleansing was not a part of the deal. It was supposed to be a negotiated, agreed upon mutual transfer of populations. And respect for partitioned territorial boundaries. Also not given by Israel, which took more land by force that was meant for Palestine and has been dispossessing and taking more and more Palestinian land ever since.

Did the almost million Jews become eternal refugees or were they given a homeland? Are they and their descendents citizens, not stateless?

Nothing is a wash. It remains a terrible injustice. As for Trump's plan, all people of good conscience should be clearly stating their dismay and disgust. Yet Israelis and supporters are not. Not shocking to me, but I hope it's opening some sleepy eyes.

[Sundance1220]

68. Spare me

There was no forcible transfer, Israel welcomed anybody who wanted to live in Israel. It was Palestinian leaders that told their people to get out of the way while they drove the Jews into the sea. Your knowledge on this is laughable

Yes, Jews have a state because the accepted the partition. The Palestinians don't because they refused and went to war instead. They never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Go whine to the UN.

[AloeVera]

70. Lol.

Bye.

[Beastly Boy]

73. Bullshit.

Last edited Wed Feb 5, 2025, 11:54 PM - Edit history (1)

There was no deal. There was an offer from the UN of dividing the British Palestine (an administrative territorial unit that did not exist prior to 1920) to the Jewish Palestinian leaders and Arab Palestinian leaders. The Jews took it, the Arabs rejected it. That was the end of any possible "deal". The day the Palestinian Jews took the offer, five Arab countries, on behalf of Palestinian Arabs, invaded the UN part that the Palestinian Jews accepted . The Arabs lost, and they accepted their losses in the 1949 armistice agreements. After Jordan annexed the West Bank and Egypt annexed Gaza, there was nothing left of the land allocated by the UN to the Palestinian Arabs.

What friggin deal are you talking about?

[Beastly Boy]

72. HUH? They sure did!

They were offered a state, which they never had before, and they chose war instead. Because more than they wanted a state of their own, they wanted Israel to not have one.

It's in every history book, for gawd's sake! Except the ones distributed in Gaza by UNRWA.

[Mossfern]

60. The numbers do surprise me

I've always supported Labor and sent my kids to Labor movement summer camps.
The assassination of Rabin shook my family tremendously. He was killed by a right wing fanatic. I detest the right wing and Likud.

But, on the other hand, the attitude of Hamas and many Palestinians is that they want to eradicate Israel completely and kill all Jews.

I'll ask you too:
Can you cite any support by Palestinians for a two state solution?

[AloeVera]

69. Thanks for this.

We agree on a very important thing, detesting Likud. I do fear though that Labour is not what it used to be either. I would support Peace Now probably, if I were Israeli.

I understand where the fear of Hamas comes from, especially after Oct. 7th. And I am NOT a Hamas supporter, I could never be that. Just the repression of LBGTQ and women, their theocracy and violence etc - NEVER. I was horrified they were elected - worst thing for Palestinians and that came true.

But they were willing to negotiate - land for peace- and were thwarted and ignored at every turn. They declared in 2017 that they would be able to get a national concensus for a state along 1967 borders. Yes, I know it was for a term-limit - 10 years, or a hundred? They toned down or eliminated the anti-Jewish verbiage of their original charter. They tried to make it clear that their fight was not with the Jewish people but the state of Israel and Zionism. No, unlike the PA and Arafat, they never gave up on the right of return so their fate was sealed in a way. But just like Arafat eventually recognized its hopelessness - though he was kind of conned into that huge concession, from which he never recovered - eventually Hamas might have too. They are more pragmatic and realist than given credit for. In any case, they just might have been voted out.

Would I want Hamas for a neighbour? No. But if it comes down to a choice between giving them a chance or waging a perpetual war and occupation? I come down on the side of peace. But again, I don't live in Israel and I can't fully appreciate what Oct. 7th did to the Israeli psyche. I fear, though, that it has made that society even more closed and willing to accept violence and occupation - now ethnic cleansing! - as viable solutions.

I will respond to your question - a very good one, though it requires some time on my part to put it together as I like to do justice to it - later when I have more time.

[ShadesOfBlue]

58. A tired talking point for those who excuse Israel apartheid tendencies

[Mossfern]

59. Speaking of talking points ....

Please cite Palestinians who are in favor of a two state solution.
Thank you.

[Sundance1220]

49. Israeli's USED to want a 2 state solution

That is no longer the case and I can't really blame them after 75 years of terrorism on their doorstep.

[Mister Ed]

7. Grrr. Our DU Terms of Service require us to support Democrats, but...

...how can we find a way to make someone like Fetterman support Democrats as well?

[madaboutharry]

21. A Zionist is a person who believes that Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people.

90% of Jews are Zionists. To lump 90% of Jews in the same category with fascists and racists is wrong.

[samplegirl]

10. Get the hell out

of the Democratic Party!

[Sundance1220]

51. Nope

I'm not willing to close our tent over this one issue. Perhaps you think there are enough Democrats that we can afford to be purity police but I know better.

[Joinfortmill]

11. DINO

[videohead5]

16. Pennsylvania

After Trump won Pennsylvania and Casey lost it looks like he was afraid that he was going to get voted out if he did not move to the right. He's selling his soul to keep his seat. Pathetic!

[SunSeeker]

17. OMFG

[no_hypocrisy]

18. JFC, Fetterman's talking and voting like he was raised in Dubois!!

[Escape]

19. Fetterman has gone...

from an enigma to an embarrassment to an outrage.

[RandiFan1290]

20. Democrats should do a better job vetting their candidates. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

22. I wonder if Conor Lamb could have beaten Mehmet Oz.

Just wondering.

It's a long way until the next primary, but I will certainly support a Democrat.

[karynnj]

41. Thinking of things said to have been negative for Oz, I think Lamb would have won

The fact that Oz actually did live in NJ and lied about it was a big issue. Lamb was as PA as Fetterman. One question might be would a Lamb campaign have gone after that as successfully?

I also don't know the net effect of Fetterman's stroke on the race. Did it cause more people to rally behind him or did it create enough concern that it was a net negative that he won in spite of.

I actually think Lamb would have done as well or better. However, I also really did not think Casey would have lost. In some ways, it might be that Lamb would have been a Casey like candidate.

[Vinca]

23. WTF has happened to this guy? He's talking like a right-wing loony tune.

If you're in Pennsylvania let him know what you think.

[ellemb]

24. I will not vote for him again. I hope he gets primaried.

[doc03]

25. Sounds like Fetterman is the new Joe Manchin. nt

[claudette]

26. Fetterman is acting

like a traitor to Democrats.

[gab13by13]

27. Sounds to me like Fetterman got Lyndsey Graham'd

Too weird to do such a 180, there is more to the story.

[Ars Longa]

67. I wonder what his wife Gisele knows about all this... at one time

It came to my attention that, she was somewhat of a progressive driving force behind
his political ascension...
Then, after the stroke, he seemingly changed political direction-- with her influence diminished.

[dutch777]

28. Bummer, Fetterman is one of our Senators. Doubt that an email will help but I'll write one

[LuvLoogie]

30. Yeah, it's a duck.

Brain damage or not We need to primary him. He'll get a lot of MAGAT crossover though.

[choie]

31. And it's not American occupation of Gaza

it's trump, Jared Kushner and their illegal cabal that will turn Gaza into trump casino and resorts.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Trump says he might use US troops for it

So it could be American lives at risk. The Fallujah reference is relevant.

[spanone]

33. He's lost whatever mind he had.

[surfered]

35. He must be smoking what Trump is smoking

[vercetti2021]

36. I think that stroke fucked his brain

[mopinko]

37. it's the kind of personality change i have seen.

the fight goes out of a fighter, and they go all kumbaya.

[Wiz Imp]

38. Fetterman's position on Israel & Palestine has not changed. Even before he was elected, his views on this

issue were terrible. He even admitted he was not a Progressive with regards to Israel & Palestine. I'm not defending him in any way on this. Some of the things he's said on this issue in the past year+ have made me sick. I just want people to be clear - do not blame this on his stroke or his moving to the right after getting elected. That is actually letting him off the hook. He has always been awful on this and criticism of him should acknowledge that.

Article from April 2022, 7 months before he was elected:

https://jewishinsider.com/2022/04/john-fetterman-says-hell-lean-in-on-u-s-israel-relationship-as-senator/
John Fetterman says he’ll ‘lean in’ on U.S.-Israel relationship as senator

“I would also respectfully say that I’m not really a progressive in that sense,” he added. “Our campaign is based on core Democratic values and principles, and always has been, and there is no daylight between myself and these kinds of unwavering commitments to Israel’s security.”

During the interview, Fetterman took special pains, it seemed, to do just that, at one point anticipating a question about U.S. funding for Israel before it had been posed to him. “Let me just say this, even if I’m asked or not, I was dismayed by the Iron Dome vote,” Fetterman said, alluding to a small cohort of far-left House members who, last September, opposed legislation that would provide $1 billion to replenish Israel’s missile-defense system following the conflict last May with Hamas in Gaza. “I would never vote in that regard.”

“Israel has the supreme right to defend itself, especially when there are thousands of rockets being indiscriminately fired at innocent civilians,” he argued. “I believe that the vote was misguided, and that is something that I would never be a part of.”

Fetterman said he is “equally passionate” in his opposition to the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement targeting Israel. “It’s just wrong,” he said. “Israel is our closest ally and friend in the region, and I do not believe that is anything productive that enhances not only Israel’s security but the region’s security through that process.”

A second article from September 2022, 2 months before the elction:

https://jacobin.com/2022/09/john-fetterman-palestine-israeli-occupation-foreign-policy-us-military-aid
John Fetterman Is Right About Many Things — but He’s Dead Wrong on Palestine

And when it comes to Palestine, John Fetterman might as well be Dr Oz. In statements to the Republican Jewish Coalition, Oz has tried to portray Fetterman as an advocate for the rights of Palestinians.

I wish this were true. The way the Israeli state “manage[s] the Palestinian population” has involved severe violations of the human and democratic rights of millions of people on both sides of the “Green Line” separating “Israel proper” from the territories it conquered in 1967 — not to mention all the Palestinian families across the region and the rest of the world who have been legally denied their basic right to return to the country since they were expelled from it during Israel’s 1948 War of Independence.

Palestinians on the Israeli side of the line are openly treated as second-class citizens, with mainstream Israeli politicians routinely wringing their hands about the “demographic threat” posed by the higher birth rates of Palestinian citizens in a way that would sound outright fascist if it came out of the mouth of an American politician talking about the birth rate of an ethnic minority group here.

Absurdly praising Israel’s supposed “democratic values,” Fetterman accurately said of himself in the Jewish Insider interview that he’s “not really a progressive in that sense.” That would presumably be the “sense” in which the “progressive” position on Palestine involves criticism of unconditional US aid to Israel. John Fetterman has, in other words, unashamedly confessed to being what’s sometimes known as a PEP — a “progressive except for Palestine.”

[muriel_volestrangler]

45. Advocating ethnic cleansing is going more extreme, however

There are DUers who are very pro-Israel, but I wouldn't expect to see them advocating the removal of the entire population of Gaza.

[Wiz Imp]

48. I don't believe he was advocating for ethnic cleansing, though it may have come across that way.

I suspect he will walk back the statement somewhat to make that clear. Fetterman has always been to the right of most Pro-Israel folks here on this issue. In fact, he has always been effectively on the far right fringe of this issue overall, and the far right fringe immediately applauded Trump's statement. (Note Fetterman didn't applaud it, he called it provocative so he didn't explicitly endorse it, but he refused to condemn it like most Democrats have done)

From an article from a year ago:

https://jacobin.com/2024/01/john-fetterman-palestine-israeli-state-apartheid-war-gaza-progressive
John Fetterman Keeps Defending the Indefensible in Gaza
Even in a world where the Israeli government had heeded various warnings and headed off Hamas’s attack on October 7, this would be an ugly blotch on whatever record Fetterman would otherwise be able to claim of standing for justice. But in the last three months, Israel has committed atrocities in Gaza on a level that dwarf anything it’s done since the original“Nakba” (catastrophe) that drove hundreds of thousands of Palestinians out of the country during the creation of the state.

And through it all, Fetterman has continuously doubled down on his enthusiasm for the Israeli state. He told Politico at the end of December that whatever “diversity of opinions” existed among Senate Democrats with regard to the onslaught on Gaza, and however much the caucus might “splinter” on the issue, he would always be “the last man standing to be absolutely there on the Israeli side on this with no conditions.”

In an interview a week earlier with the New York Times, Fetterman expressed surprise that so many of his former supporters seemed shocked by his position. “I do find it confusing,” he told the Times, “where the very left progressives in America don’t seem to want to support really the only progressive nation in the region that really embraces the same kind of values I would expect we would want as a society.”

In terms of the substance of the argument, this is the thinnest possible reed on which Senator Fetterman could hang his enthusiastic support for a state currently engaged in ethnic cleansing of an internal noncitizen population. It’s a fairly popular rhetorical strategy, though, and so it’s probably worth spending a moment explaining why it makes so little sense. Fetterman isn’t being terribly original. I’ve heard many apologists for the Israeli government using variations of this point — think about all the right-wing sneering about “Queers for Palestine” or about secular leftists in the West “siding with radical Islam.”

[ananda]

40. Isn't that precious. Of course he does.

He's such a lost case.

[Oopsie Daisy]

42. I wonder why folks preferred him over Conor Lamb.

[Jakes Progress]

43. What a shame. He could have left a legacy. Now he's just another stooge.

[sinkingfeeling]

44. This man is not a Democrat.

[bigtree]

46. ethnic cleanser.

..it's not U.S. territory.

It was given to Palestinians.

No U.S. troops on the ground in Gaza!!

We don't own the world.

[mcar]

47. I am very confused by him

He seems to have gone from ultra-Progressive to...I don't know how to describe it.

[Lunabell]

52. Are we allowed to criticize him yet?

Or am I on my last warning?

[awesomerwb1]

54. Say bye bye. He's gone MAGA lite (for now)

I expect full MAGA by the end of the year where he will bash the Dem party for being too "radical".

The absurdity of our times.

[Shipwack]

55. Party switch to Independent in 5...4...3...2... nt

[Rebl2]

61. Wish

senators could be recalled/removed from office before the end of their term.

[Ars Longa]

65. He may be headed for political "No Mans Land"

Ala' Kirsten Sinema.
Dems/Progressives will shun him en masse...
And,
Repubs will vote for Genuine Real thing republican...

[Wingus Dingus]

71. We should pretty much ignore his stupid ass, he probably loves all y'all talking about him all the time.

He's an attention whore, stop paying attention and he loses relevance. Edit to add: I know this will get removed, do what you must.