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I have a very simple question (Original Post) malaise Feb 2025 OP
This current system is irrevocably broken... Moostache Feb 2025 #1
Great post malaise Feb 2025 #4
Yes it REALLY should! halobeam Feb 2025 #18
Ditto. KPN Feb 2025 #25
Well said, and undeniably accurate. Magoo48 Feb 2025 #49
History is set for a post-human future. WheelWalker Feb 2025 #52
Hope I'm not being naieve here but I think some great and effective planning is going on right now. We'll see. SheilaAnn Feb 2025 #2
can you elaborate? berksdem Feb 2025 #10
Re: tsf/tfg, we.heard that for the last 4 years, si KPN Feb 2025 #26
Obviously the system is not so great if this shit can happen. n/t totodeinhere Feb 2025 #3
I have felt for months that some entity is outmaneuvering us. To me, it was so evident with "Loose" Canon. usaf-vet Feb 2025 #40
Rumor has it that Thomas will retire and Trump will nominate Cannon to replace him. totodeinhere Feb 2025 #54
It took over 200 years to create the effin system Progressive dog Feb 2025 #5
Especially when they have very bright - but evil - people pulling the strings, Ms. Toad Feb 2025 #8
All we had to do was prosecute him in good haste. KPN Feb 2025 #30
"We" didn't do that, a federalist society member did. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #33
You are right, but there were plenty of good Democrats KPN Feb 2025 #35
Yup, this wound was torn wide open by an infuriating, critically timed, oki-doki shuffle at the DOJ. Magoo48 Feb 2025 #50
When the courts fall, we have lost our democracy gab13by13 Feb 2025 #6
Exactly Diraven Feb 2025 #45
I'm on your side. People in congress need to get their act together and stop this coup. OLDMDDEM Feb 2025 #7
A criminal told the world he would be a dictator on day one, already attempted one coup and said he would pardon his malaise Feb 2025 #9
Beyond madness and chaos at this point! berksdem Feb 2025 #11
I am way more disturbed about the courts, ReTHUGs, national malaise Feb 2025 #13
Yeah, its definitely has global implications. KPN Feb 2025 #42
It sure doesn't seem that we were ready for it. I KPN Feb 2025 #41
The only plan was to win Diraven Feb 2025 #44
He also said "you will never have to vote again". KPN Feb 2025 #37
Yes he said that malaise Feb 2025 #38
Yup. KPN Feb 2025 #43
DuRec leftstreet Feb 2025 #12
Your premise is incorrect. We no longer have a "great" system. BarbD Feb 2025 #14
We found out it's not so great when we couldn't prosecute trmp after 4 years. spanone Feb 2025 #15
Indeed malaise Feb 2025 #17
... spanone Feb 2025 #21
Somehow whatever enforcement infrastructure designed to protect our common welfare were extracted. Magoo48 Feb 2025 #51
There is Codifer Feb 2025 #16
ReTHUGs - The party of law and order malaise Feb 2025 #19
Enabling Idiots. Key! czarjak Feb 2025 #20
Short answer: because people failed. malthaussen Feb 2025 #22
Sadly true malaise Feb 2025 #39
Seriously, I think our Founders would be aghast at what has transpired. malthaussen Feb 2025 #46
The answer is simple, but... 3825-87867 Feb 2025 #23
freedom is just loopholes KT2000 Feb 2025 #24
Exactly 😡 so many crimes 😡😡😡 TommieMommy Feb 2025 #27
who said the system was great? Skittles Feb 2025 #28
JoeScum says it evert effin day malaise Feb 2025 #31
Who knew that the system could be bought for only $260 Million? Musk knew. Klarkashton Feb 2025 #29
To the highest bidder malaise Feb 2025 #32
Didnt the south koreans show us? Karadeniz Feb 2025 #34
Great question. I cannot answer that. Evolve Dammit Feb 2025 #36
And they did without even having to set fire to the Reichstag. surfered Feb 2025 #47
They have been working on this for more than four years malaise Feb 2025 #53
They never anticipated an entire party or SCOTUS that would be totally lawless. nt doc03 Feb 2025 #48

Moostache

(11,094 posts)
1. This current system is irrevocably broken...
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 01:54 PM
Feb 2025

It is time for serious people to begin planning reconstruction part two and/or a method to disarm the nuclear arsenal of the former United States of America. Those weapons CANNOT be left under the control of these madmen no matter the costs. They are not to be trusted with a package of Black Cat firecrackers, let alone MX10 missiles and thousands of warheads.

The USA is lost, there is no reconciliation possible with Musk, Trump, MAGAts or the Vichy GOP.
A split and repartitioning of the borders is necessary, and I want SERIOUS walls to prevent the Confederates from trying to sneak back in afterwards. These assholes have killed a system of government that was the light of the world for 200 years and for the last 50 has been slowly transforming into this modern incarnation of hideous historical echoes.

Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and the rest are reborn as Trump, Musk, Bezos and Zuckerberg.
History remembers the former with utter hatred and contempt 100 years later.
History will bear similar (or worse) judgement on the latter a lot sooner...

Magoo48

(6,710 posts)
49. Well said, and undeniably accurate.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 04:54 PM
Feb 2025

It may be wishful thinking, but I imagine there are some secret and serious meetings behind locked doors about the situation as you’ve expressed it.

berksdem

(907 posts)
10. can you elaborate?
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:03 PM
Feb 2025

I am not seeing any instances of a "great and effective" plan right now. It seems like a circular firing squad without true leadership. I am all for it but where are you seeing this?

usaf-vet

(7,771 posts)
40. I have felt for months that some entity is outmaneuvering us. To me, it was so evident with "Loose" Canon.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 04:23 PM
Feb 2025

..... in Florida, managing to STOP the top-secret documents case. Someone was pushing her buttons. We know the blacked-robed SOB Thomas was helping her deny us bringing the treasonous traitor to trial. There are others, but where and whom?

totodeinhere

(13,688 posts)
54. Rumor has it that Thomas will retire and Trump will nominate Cannon to replace him.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:43 PM
Feb 2025

That will be her payback. Trump is known for taking care of his loyal servants.

Progressive dog

(7,588 posts)
5. It took over 200 years to create the effin system
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 01:59 PM
Feb 2025

and it'll take more than a week or two to protect it from the criminals now in charge. Dictators are much quicker, but I don't think I want one, no matter what his/her politics are.

Ms. Toad

(38,409 posts)
8. Especially when they have very bright - but evil - people pulling the strings,
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 02:08 PM
Feb 2025

Who had 4 years to examine the system for weak points from the inside, and who spent the next 4 years using a single organization planning exactly how to exploit each of them.

It is going to take time to effectively counter them. Our systems to counter them are disbursed (ACLU to challenge speech, labor unions to challenge unlawful terminations, etc.) AND although we knew - generally - what they planned to do, we didn't have enough specifics to plan ahead to counter this rapid-fire assault.

Not to mention that we got complacent about listening to what Trump does, rather than what he says - since he has been more bluster than action - and he hates being managed. I certainly didn't expect this kind of organized assault by an outside entity pulling his strings (without him blowing his top and doing his own thing).

KPN

(17,201 posts)
35. You are right, but there were plenty of good Democrats
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 04:17 PM
Feb 2025

clamoring over a period of 2 to 3 years about the lack of urgency; and those people certainly don’t fit the “we” category either. But there’s no question that we — as in Democrats — had control and authority over federal prosecutorial levers. The need for urgency obviously wasn’t apparent amongst those who may have made a difference.

It’s moot now. But that’s how I feel — and felt about it the last two years frankly.

gab13by13

(31,625 posts)
6. When the courts fall, we have lost our democracy
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 02:01 PM
Feb 2025

I believe that Musk is running a test right now. A judge put a hold on Musk's freezing of federal funds. 45 Head Start facilities cannot access the money. In other words, Musk is not fully complying with the judge's order.

The courts do not have an army to enforce its rulings, if this escalates the 3rd leg of our democratic stool will be broken. Musk controls 2 legs now.

malaise

(294,171 posts)
9. A criminal told the world he would be a dictator on day one, already attempted one coup and said he would pardon his
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 02:24 PM
Feb 2025

Last edited Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:18 PM - Edit history (1)

accomplices. . Sure it’s a shock to the system but there should be more readiness.
Sure I’m glad for the pushback but this is effin madness. This is chaos.

berksdem

(907 posts)
11. Beyond madness and chaos at this point!
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:07 PM
Feb 2025

Did our leadership really believe there was no way Trump was going to win? I can't help shake the feeling that our party had no plan if Trump won. Are we that arrogant? The lack of response is truly baffling and I am not sure who is going to take the reigns and stand up and fight for us.

malaise

(294,171 posts)
13. I am way more disturbed about the courts, ReTHUGs, national
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:15 PM
Feb 2025

Security and States’ leadership than I am with the Democratic Party.
This is a national and international problem not merely a Democratic Party problem.

KPN

(17,201 posts)
41. It sure doesn't seem that we were ready for it. I
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 04:25 PM
Feb 2025

have to wonder now were we ready enough to effectively identify and prove any potential vote count manipulations. If we were this unprepared for the first 17 days, were we equally unprepared to effectively snd accurately verify the vote count? Did we plan for every contingency?

BarbD

(1,385 posts)
14. Your premise is incorrect. We no longer have a "great" system.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:20 PM
Feb 2025

The reality is we are watching a coup. This is January 6th with nothing to stop it. I feel like Princess Leia pleading to Obi Wan "Help us Obi Wan, you're our only hope."

Nobody is coming to save us. We will have to do that ourselves by making a lot of noise.

spanone

(141,217 posts)
15. We found out it's not so great when we couldn't prosecute trmp after 4 years.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:24 PM
Feb 2025

He should have never been allowed to run for any office the rest of his miserable life

Magoo48

(6,710 posts)
51. Somehow whatever enforcement infrastructure designed to protect our common welfare were extracted.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 05:08 PM
Feb 2025

Our growl was reduced to a presumptuous meow and our bite nonexistent.
Billions changed hands and we the people were unceremoniously fucked.

malthaussen

(18,477 posts)
22. Short answer: because people failed.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:48 PM
Feb 2025

There is no such thing as a perfect system, and any engineer knows that if you try to make a system foolproof, you'll soon discover that the number of fools is greater than you had thought.

In this case, the failure goes back to letting DJT get off scot-free after his attempted coup. Everything else follows from that. Not just because the system failed to defend us from a single individual, but also because that failure undermined faith in the system itself. I doubt there are many people (except the odd Pollyanna) who think the US Justice system comes close to working these days.

-- Mal

malthaussen

(18,477 posts)
46. Seriously, I think our Founders would be aghast at what has transpired.
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 04:39 PM
Feb 2025

They weren't cretins, they put a lot of thought and effort into designing a system that would compensate for the abysmal stupidity and cravenness of the people. That was one of the intents of the Electoral College, to save the people from demagogues by giving the cooler heads in the States the final say in who became President.

The system was designed with the understanding that the three branches of government were mutually antagonistic, and that their self-interest would always cause them to resist any power grab by any one of the branches. It was a cynical assessment of the actual conduct of men in government (and has a long legacy in the literature of the theory of government). It more-or-less worked, but the Founders either did not expect the monied interests to buy up all three branches and give them their marching orders, or they recognized that if that were to happen, we were screwed anyway. In any event, the rich found their front man, the people were either stupid (or desperate) enough to believe him, and worse yet, many those who didn't believe him didn't think enough of the threat he posed to actually oppose him at the ballot box, and here we are. I think it's ironic that the Democrats were all ready and primed to go to battle once DJT lost the election and started crying "fraud," and using extra-legal methods to overturn the outcome -- and didn't have to worry about it, because he won the election anyway. Now it's the Democrats who are suggesting that somebody cooked the books. I doubt it, frankly, at least any more than the GOP has always cooked the books. The Democrats failed to arouse their constituency enough to get them to turn up, and they lost. End of story. Pellucidly clear, one might say.

-- Mal

3825-87867

(1,835 posts)
23. The answer is simple, but...
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:50 PM
Feb 2025

it's the method!
Democrats can't decide whether to use baseball bats, viking spears, six shooters, poison, skantily clad "people", drugs, nukes, hired enforcers or a few dozen other ideas.

But more than likely, they'll settle on a few sternly worded letters!

KT2000

(22,037 posts)
24. freedom is just loopholes
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 03:54 PM
Feb 2025

for our enemies to exploit. The mistake was we thought there was a system of shared values so we were blindsided.

malaise

(294,171 posts)
53. They have been working on this for more than four years
Wed Feb 5, 2025, 05:28 PM
Feb 2025

and that fire was Jan 6 2021.
This is what he was planning since then and M$Greedia gave him all the airplay he wanted.

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