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Dennis Donovan

(31,059 posts)
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:22 AM Feb 2025

Norm Eisen: BREAKING: we just blocked Musk & Trump out of the Treasury systems!

Norm Eisen
‪@normeisen.bsky.social‬
BREAKING: we just blocked Musk & Trump out of the Treasury systems!

Court order just secured — big win by us at @sddaction.bsky.social & our partners including
@publiccitizen.bsky.social!

February 6, 2025 at 9:54 AM


BREAKING: we just blocked Musk & Trump out of the Treasury systems!

Court order just secured — big win by us at @sddaction.bsky.social & our partners including @publiccitizen.bsky.social!

Norm Eisen (@normeisen.bsky.social) 2025-02-06T14:54:05.323Z
151 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Norm Eisen: BREAKING: we just blocked Musk & Trump out of the Treasury systems! (Original Post) Dennis Donovan Feb 2025 OP
Cold comfort. According to Wired GusBob Feb 2025 #1
Now, all we have to do is catch them in the act. Baitball Blogger Feb 2025 #3
Yep, the entire data system needs to be rebuilt from scratch. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #54
That would be an enormous undertaking Tweedy Feb 2025 #57
The original system is compromised, we have to. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #60
Perhaps. Today we cannot trust those in control Tweedy Feb 2025 #66
No, we certainly can NOT trust the current powers. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #72
It would provide a ton of IT jobs! BadgerMom Feb 2025 #101
an enormous undertaking that would be contracted out to a tech bro rampartd Feb 2025 #147
Same as if a foreign hacker team had infiltrated the system DBoon Feb 2025 #151
"... a republic, if you can keep it" Ben Franklin. NotHardly Feb 2025 #63
What data did they ALREADY steal? Bluetus Feb 2025 #78
Agree with you on all counts. yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #87
No. Thank you for the link. Bluetus Feb 2025 #113
It would be great if someone could get access and do the paper ballot recounts now. yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #115
There are Dem Governors in the majority of swing states Bluetus Feb 2025 #123
That admission by trump has gotten ALMOST NO scrutiny by the mega corporate media. THAT is a huge problem in the USA. BComplex Feb 2025 #88
Thank you for the clip MustLoveBeagles Feb 2025 #98
That's what gets me Dem4life1234 Feb 2025 #117
Screw David pack whatever with a rusty rake questionseverything Feb 2025 #131
Given that the asshole actually said those words clearly KPN Feb 2025 #94
AFAIK, none of the DEM Governors in any of those swing states has asked for any kind of audit Bluetus Feb 2025 #108
And what SOURCE CODE has been replaced? already? Captain Zero Feb 2025 #107
Absolutely. Make them file their answers to the court Bluetus Feb 2025 #119
We kept getting our hands slapped every damn time we mentioned it on here Dem4life1234 Feb 2025 #116
I spent years harping on the need for election security returnee Feb 2025 #120
It really is mind-boggling. Bluetus Feb 2025 #122
Not just "What did they steal?"... regnaD kciN Feb 2025 #127
Yet, we can get all whipped up about Tiktok Bluetus Feb 2025 #145
Yep. The damage has already been done. What's KPN Feb 2025 #92
And fine Elon for the bills racked up fixing, patching re-coding, whatever is needed to get his geeks the f' out Attilatheblond Feb 2025 #109
an what about evilhime Feb 2025 #93
Absolutely. To give Krause or Elez "special employee" access is giving the Musk & the Musk Hacker Group access. ancianita Feb 2025 #144
Thank you Retired Veterans! Baitball Blogger Feb 2025 #2
Too late, He and the Z kiddies have the data and set the backdoors....nt wcmagumba Feb 2025 #4
Yup. They have installed command/control software - probably root kits that can't be detected. erronis Feb 2025 #26
Surely there are backups? BadgerKid Feb 2025 #46
And as young and privileged as they are, they're the type to haele Feb 2025 #74
Remember the Enron conversations? Laughing about "grandma"? CaptainTruth Feb 2025 #102
Yup, this was reported on various news outlets. Treasury engineers witnessed their manipulation of the code. Native Feb 2025 #90
Data migration this weekend? yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #128
I heard this on either MSNBC, CNN, or the Sirius Progressive station (likely Stephanie's show, but could have been Thom) Native Feb 2025 #138
Thanks yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #139
I am so happy about this! One worry I have...what happens if they ignore the court order? LiberalLoner Feb 2025 #5
We won't know it gab13by13 Feb 2025 #30
They no doubt already have the data. arthritisR_US Feb 2025 #59
Listen to Michael Popak. He gives a good break down. PortTack Feb 2025 #85
Really, not good enough. These people, granted 'read-only' access can simply use their cellphones to copy sinkingfeeling Feb 2025 #6
They had more than read only access. travelingthrulife Feb 2025 #61
Mission accomplished. Backdoors installed and now the children can work comfortably in their recliners LiberalArkie Feb 2025 #7
Or sitting in offices in Beijing or Moscow/Saint Petersburg. erronis Feb 2025 #29
But the children doing the work I don't think they realize that Big Iron is designed for backups and LiberalArkie Feb 2025 #99
I'm pretty sure you're misreading that order. MineralMan Feb 2025 #8
Read only Wifes husband Feb 2025 #17
Tom Krause is the CEO of CSG, the parent of Citrix, the REMOTE ACCESS company Prairie Gates Feb 2025 #9
If the judge finds out this NOT-TRO is poorly informed, she might issue a superseding order that's a ancianita Feb 2025 #16
I was wondering if this order was enough. yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #129
Go Norm Go dem4decades Feb 2025 #10
Damn! I NEEDED THIS! Thank you, Norm Eisen! Some good news after the overwhelming avalanche of bad... hlthe2b Feb 2025 #11
They need to be... 2naSalit Feb 2025 #12
Put them on a Space-X starship Seinan Sensei Feb 2025 #42
It's too late! LittleGirl Feb 2025 #13
And don't be surprised if your refund or Social Security is delayed (forever.) erronis Feb 2025 #32
I have to wonder if these young men are aware of how history will judge them Arazi Feb 2025 #14
History ? Hell, they'd better worry about how a criminal court will judge them. eppur_se_muova Feb 2025 #19
Oh definitely. I'm certain they've broken some serious laws Arazi Feb 2025 #25
After what they have done even criminal court may be the least of their worries. hadEnuf Feb 2025 #84
This should be treated the same as espionage valleyrogue Feb 2025 #23
I'm good with that Arazi Feb 2025 #27
We are so far from that with this court order.. halobeam Feb 2025 #47
It is GOING to be done. It will be done legally valleyrogue Feb 2025 #48
what is going to be done? MadameButterfly Feb 2025 #83
I'm not in favor of the death penalty, either, generalbetrayus Feb 2025 #86
USAID 'to the wood chipper' GusBob Feb 2025 #33
They should be rounded up and sent to Florence ADX or be on death row valleyrogue Feb 2025 #52
Unfortunately they'll be pardoned Arazi Feb 2025 #58
An insider is going to turn against them one way or the other. valleyrogue Feb 2025 #67
We can hope. And sooner than later Arazi Feb 2025 #69
What my late dad always said: "If two people know a secret, it isn't a secret anymore." n/t valleyrogue Feb 2025 #77
Unless trump/Musk go after what gold is left at Fort Knox, they are not going to get much from disbursement records. Silent Type Feb 2025 #15
You forgot the sarcasm thingy gab13by13 Feb 2025 #35
Uh... don't they already steal the data? sakabatou Feb 2025 #18
My IT business son in NM: Too late. They're already in and have been since last week when the govt portals went down ancianita Feb 2025 #20
HUGE malaise Feb 2025 #21
That's great. choie Feb 2025 #22
My IT business son in NM also says: ancianita Feb 2025 #24
Yes Wired.com is crushing it with the coverage Arazi Feb 2025 #34
You install the backdoor and the operating system level (or even below). erronis Feb 2025 #38
So without any knowledge of this language it's possible? Arazi Feb 2025 #41
no not accurate lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #76
Thank you. Really interesting Arazi Feb 2025 #80
They are slow to change lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #89
. Arazi Feb 2025 #91
Kara Swisher said something along the lines of they will need to get in there with some "white hat hackers" yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #130
it would be very hard to even know where they started lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #141
I was just about to post "It doesn't even matter if they 'know' COBOL, because AI most definitely does" AZJonnie Feb 2025 #95
mostly to demonstrate just HOW EASY it is to steal everything lapfog_1 Feb 2025 #106
Indeed. And the potential for damage simply by having access to a system administrator-level database role AZJonnie Feb 2025 #110
See Nathan Tankus's pieces pioche4 Feb 2025 #103
Oh he's been on fire! Arazi Feb 2025 #118
I read the Tankus piece you linked. yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #133
Wired and 404media? I'll take The Guardian and ProPublica, The American Prospect, etc. erronis Feb 2025 #36
Wired is legit Arazi Feb 2025 #45
Okay, quibble about sources, but the fact of backdoor installation is what the govt portal shutdown was for. ancianita Feb 2025 #53
Wired is great Tweedy Feb 2025 #64
Should Rebl2 Feb 2025 #28
Keep the heat on. ProudMNDemocrat Feb 2025 #31
Celebrate, but we won't even know gab13by13 Feb 2025 #37
I think they would do it by altering the databases directly. erronis Feb 2025 #40
Grateful to Norm Eisen!!! flamingdem Feb 2025 #39
Shouldn't this be done by Democrats? Owens Feb 2025 #43
It should be done by Americans. n/t eShirl Feb 2025 #104
So what are the chances Diraven Feb 2025 #44
Too late, the backdoor has probably already been established. Lars39 Feb 2025 #49
DOJ attorneys agree to temporarily limit DOGE's access to Treasury payment systems: report LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2025 #50
This just legitimizes their prior entry into the system... Think. Again. Feb 2025 #56
They'll be pardoned before it ever gets that far Arazi Feb 2025 #65
I still hope we'll find our way out from under the nazis, somehow. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #70
Same Arazi Feb 2025 #71
Solidarity! Think. Again. Feb 2025 #73
Somehow. yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #134
exactly. It's a Permission Slip. halobeam Feb 2025 #79
Good, now we just have to rebuild the entire data system from scratch. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #51
Won't happen under this administration Arazi Feb 2025 #62
That's true, and we shouldn't trust it if it does. Think. Again. Feb 2025 #68
Here is a list of the people who will also have access LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2025 #55
If a president can ignore the law then can't he just ignore the courts and pardon anyone who does his bidding? Jansen Feb 2025 #75
Are you sure? kansasobama Feb 2025 #81
Actually, they didn't block anything. The deed was done a week ago.This will drag out, no one will be brought to justice ancianita Feb 2025 #82
will they comply though? LymphocyteLover Feb 2025 #96
Who is going to escort Musk & his team from the premises? FakeNoose Feb 2025 #97
Keep Blocking 'Em!✊ Daleuhlmann Feb 2025 #100
They have to be... 2naSalit Feb 2025 #105
Good. But we need an immediate forensic audit to see what was stolen! SunSeeker Feb 2025 #111
How would that get implemented? yellow dahlia Feb 2025 #136
Yes, an independent audit would have to be ordered by the judge. nt SunSeeker Feb 2025 #137
Best of luck enforcing it misanthrope Feb 2025 #112
Good! Meowmee Feb 2025 #114
Norm Eisen Court win Jjmc Feb 2025 #121
Welcome to DU ! KS Toronado Feb 2025 #146
Welcome to DU LetMyPeopleVote Feb 2025 #149
Update: one of the named exemptions (Marko Elez) forced to resign from DOGE for RACISM Prairie Gates Feb 2025 #124
They already had access to it though. City Lights Feb 2025 #125
True.................. Lovie777 Feb 2025 #126
K&R spanone Feb 2025 #132
The damage was already done. Karma13612 Feb 2025 #135
A court order? Ha! hurple Feb 2025 #140
Elon the Nazi stupid IT Goons already migrated these databases to other servers or at least flatfiles. StocktonNative Feb 2025 #142
Are Tom Krause & Marko Elez the 20 year goons Elon Ilsa Feb 2025 #143
So what about this?? samplegirl Feb 2025 #148
Closing the barn door after the horse is gone. Heftylefty Feb 2025 #150

GusBob

(8,251 posts)
1. Cold comfort. According to Wired
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:25 AM
Feb 2025

That "big balls" fella has a cadre of hackers working for him

Tweedy

(1,284 posts)
66. Perhaps. Today we cannot trust those in control
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:37 PM
Feb 2025

Bring back Mr. Leybruk. He has been trusted by everybody for over thirty years.

rampartd

(4,638 posts)
147. an enormous undertaking that would be contracted out to a tech bro
Fri Feb 7, 2025, 02:01 AM
Feb 2025

if not to musk himself.

DBoon

(24,993 posts)
151. Same as if a foreign hacker team had infiltrated the system
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 02:23 PM
Feb 2025

Treat this as a very serious data breach

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
78. What data did they ALREADY steal?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:56 PM
Feb 2025

Last edited Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:17 PM - Edit history (2)

The judge should have ordered a full accounting of what has already been taken. That damage has already been done, but the American people deserve to know what Musk is stealing from us.

And as far as Elon's team of hackers, no doubt these are some of the same people Trump referred to when he said Musk knows all about "those vote counting computers".



Notice Trump didn't say "election systems" or anything like that. He was very specific about "vote counting computers". This is a phrase Trump would never come up with on his own. Clearly Musk explained the available hack to Trump using those exact words. I encourage everyone to look into the ESS systems that are in widespread use in every one of the swing states. There are huge vulnerabilities I have detailed elsewhere, and they relate to the chain of custody from the voting site to the county headquarters. It is absolutely possible to flip votes during that delivery process with no obvious evidence of tampering. Tampering would easily be exposed if there were a recount, but there were NO RECOUNTS anywhere. And you can bet Trump was prepared with a legal and PR strategy to fight to delay any RECOUNTS until after the media had crowned Trump the winner.

As it worked out, that wasn't necessary because Dems never invested the effort to understand how vulnerable these systems are.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
113. No. Thank you for the link.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:15 PM
Feb 2025

That like provides very important analysis. There has been considerable talk about voter suppression, which is a very real thing keeping millions of voters off the results.

But we have Trump out there saying "Elon really knows all about those vote counting computers." That would be pretty weird as a random comment. It isn't a random comment. It is Trump saying the secret part out loud, as he does so frequently.

It is important to note that a majority of the swing states have Democratic Governors, but I don't believe a single one of them has ordered any kind of post-election audit. The problem is that most politicians are lawyers and a few doctors. But there aren't many who know anything about IT.

In posts below, I have spelled out the most likely vulnerability that a person who became expert in "vote counting computers" would exploit. If such a thing happened, which is at least suggested by the patterns in the link you shared, they could easily be exposed by re-scanning ballots from suspicious precincts to see if they match the memory cards that were submitted on election night. Not rocket science.

Just by way of background, I have a computer science degree and a 45-year IT career in system engineering, and I have also worked over a dozen elections using the ESS equipment that is the likely target if somebody were inclined to do something malevolent with "vote counting computers".

yellow dahlia

(5,910 posts)
115. It would be great if someone could get access and do the paper ballot recounts now.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:27 PM
Feb 2025

Imagine if someone could match up the physical proof to the conclusion of the analytical data that we now have.

And it all matches up to the confession-like comments made by both the grifter and his Chief Destroyer.

And our premise seems further validated by the attack on data systems being waged by the Chief Destroyer and his band of hacker punks.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
123. There are Dem Governors in the majority of swing states
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:22 PM
Feb 2025

By federal law, the ballots must be preserved for years. It seems to me that these Governors should be able to order appropriate audits.

BComplex

(9,916 posts)
88. That admission by trump has gotten ALMOST NO scrutiny by the mega corporate media. THAT is a huge problem in the USA.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:08 PM
Feb 2025

Last edited Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:05 PM - Edit history (1)

So much for freedom of the press. It means they can ignore the most atrocious crimes against our democracy.

I am not sure this guy breaks DU rules or not, but he's talking about the purge of voters during the 2024 election. This, too, aided and abetted the crime against our democracy.



ON EDIT:

I just saw this video refuting the other one I posted. So...let's continue with the investigation.

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
117. That's what gets me
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:37 PM
Feb 2025

This crap wouldn't fly anywhere else in the world.

But the press virtually coddle his disgusting behind.

KPN

(17,379 posts)
94. Given that the asshole actually said those words clearly
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:32 PM
Feb 2025

it troubles me that I have not seen a single convincing report or explanation of exactly how the Democratic powers that be determined forensically that there was not any evidence of vote count manipulation in any of the swing States.

Until I see a clear accounting of how exactly that was determined, I am always going to have strong doubts given the character of the key actors involved; the fat shit and his muskrat.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
108. AFAIK, none of the DEM Governors in any of those swing states has asked for any kind of audit
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:55 PM
Feb 2025

Last edited Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:52 PM - Edit history (1)

OK, about 95% of politicians are lawyers by training and by profession, so maybe we are asking too much for them to understand some basic IT issues. Or maybe we shouldn't be electing so many lawyers to govern the rest of us.

But here's the rundown in bullet form:

* ESS is the biggest supplier of election systems, by far

* ESS was founded by a major Republican contributor

* ESS is used widely in all the swing states (and most other states)

* The ESS solution has 4 major components, 3 being at the polling place and one being at county HQ

* At the polling site, there is an iPad app that uses a 4G/5G connection to the county HQ to verify voter status. This prints a blank paper ballot. No other polling place systems are connected online to the outside world, and none of the machines in the polling place are electronically connected to one another. The only connection is through the paper ballot.

* The paper ballot is taken to a touchpad voting stations. These tablets are claimed to store no information. There may be dozens of these at each polling place, and they are all stand-alone. They read the paper ballot, which establishes which candidates and propositions are relevant to that voter. The voter makes selections, and when done, these selections are printed onto the paper ballot. At that point, the tablet should have no retained information from that session.

* The paper ballot has the selections in human-readable form, which the voter can verify if they have good eyesight. But the tabulation is done based on barcoded information that is supposed to exactly match the human-readable data. In theory the tablets could be hacked to barcode different votes than are shown on the human-readable lines. This could be discovered by auditing the paper ballots. I have no evidence anybody has ever done such a hack, but I am also not aware of any field audits for this vulnerability. It isn't the easiest hack.

* The last step at the polling place is to feed the paper ballots into the tabulator. The tabulator reads only the BARCODES, not the human-readable version of the votes. It keeps a running total of voting throughout the day and stores results on a memory card. In theory, one could hack the tabulator, but there are various physical and electronic measures to detect tampering. Again, not the easiest hack.

So far, so good. That's all pretty secure. The big vulnerability is this:

* At the end of voting, the supervisor/inspector removes the memory card from the tabulator and places the tabulator (which holds the paper ballots) into a locked storage to be retrieved later by the county officials. The supervisor personally delivers the memory card to the central location. In my experience (and I have worked over a dozen elections with this equipment), there is very light chain-of-custody. It really depends on the integrity of the person transporting the memory cards.

* I do not know the format of the data on these cards. But I do know that Republicans went to great lengths to gain illegal access to these systems in 2020 and made electronic copies that could enable reverse engineering. I also believe there are people at ESS who would share that format with a person like Musk, given the right incentives and protection promises. Either way, given time (and they had 4 years), there is absolutely no question that people with some specialized but common IT skills could reverse engineer the memory card format. And knowing the format, it would be trivial to write a program that would read the memory card, and change the tabulation results in a way that would not be detected when the cards were read at the county HQ.

* Such a scheme would require the collaboration of numerous corrupt precinct-level election workers, or a much smaller number of corrupt county-level workers, because the tampering would have to occur between the time the cards left the voting places and were officially received at the county HQ. I have no evidence that anything like this actually happened, but we have plenty of evidence of corrupt election officials, illegal access to machines, fake electors and such.

* Finally, it is important to note that a memory card tampering scheme could easily be detected simply by scanning the paper ballots in a known safe setting with plenty of witnesses. The memory cards would either match the paper ballots or they would not. The point is THERE WERE NO RECOUNTS ANYWHERE, so the scheme I described could have succeeded in this particular election. Again, I am not alleging that is DID happen, only that it could happen and would not be particularly difficult for a person with Musk's financial and technical resources.

And then we have Trump saying, basically, yeah, Musk knows all about these vote-counting system. WHY would Musk know about these vote counting systems. Doesn't he have a CEO job at Tesla, SpaceX, and several other companies? Why would Musk waste time becoming an expert in vote-counting systems when he can't get his self-driving software to work in 10 years?

Captain Zero

(8,907 posts)
107. And what SOURCE CODE has been replaced? already?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:42 PM
Feb 2025

There were reports these musk goobers were changing source code 'on the fly' ,without testing, last week.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
119. Absolutely. Make them file their answers to the court
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:55 PM
Feb 2025

under penalty of perjury. Of course that means nothing to an administration that is completely lawless, but the Statute of Limitations runs for at least 5 years, so these people would be running some risk of being convicted with a 10-20-year prison sentence starting in 2028, if they lie to the court.

Dem4life1234

(2,533 posts)
116. We kept getting our hands slapped every damn time we mentioned it on here
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:33 PM
Feb 2025

He was way too confident.

returnee

(928 posts)
120. I spent years harping on the need for election security
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:57 PM
Feb 2025

following the 2000 and 2004 elections. No one in a position to do anything about it cared.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
122. It really is mind-boggling.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:08 PM
Feb 2025

The majority of Senators and Representatives are in locales where their party is very likely to win the general election, so they are really only concerned about how the primaries go. In most cases, the other party isn't really interested in tampering with the other party's primary.

So we are left with probably 50-75 elected offices where people have a strong reason to think about election tampering.

And here's a real problem. In the Senate, for example, I can think of 10 Dems who consistently speak up with a strong voice, just because it is the right thing to do. Here are a few names,: Murphy, Schiff, Warren, Murray, and some others. But there are probably 25-30 Dems nobody every hears a peep from if they don't live in that Senator's state.

It is the old saying, "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem."

regnaD kciN

(27,645 posts)
127. Not just "What did they steal?"...
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:32 PM
Feb 2025

…but “In what way have they compromised the systems giving them a back door to shut anything down in the future?”

Because, if you don’t think that was the key point of their operation, you’re living in a fantasy world.

Bluetus

(2,811 posts)
145. Yet, we can get all whipped up about Tiktok
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 10:26 PM
Feb 2025

Which has no links into any federal system whatsoever.

KPN

(17,379 posts)
92. Yep. The damage has already been done. What's
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:19 PM
Feb 2025

needed is a Court Order to return all data that may have been copied and remove all programs, coding or other changes that may have been made to the Department’s program computer systems.

Attilatheblond

(8,887 posts)
109. And fine Elon for the bills racked up fixing, patching re-coding, whatever is needed to get his geeks the f' out
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:57 PM
Feb 2025

No matter how long it will take, make him pay every penny of the cost. So much for his big push for efficiency and cost cutting.

evilhime

(373 posts)
93. an what about
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:29 PM
Feb 2025

All the data already transferred to private servers away from the department… this is a good start but needs to be a whole lot more robust.

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
144. Absolutely. To give Krause or Elez "special employee" access is giving the Musk & the Musk Hacker Group access.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 10:19 PM
Feb 2025

erronis

(23,907 posts)
26. Yup. They have installed command/control software - probably root kits that can't be detected.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:02 PM
Feb 2025

Simple SSH from foreign governments (and US oligarchs) directly into these systems. They don't need any physical access anymore.

haele

(15,407 posts)
74. And as young and privileged as they are, they're the type to
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:47 PM
Feb 2025

Sneer "Ha, ha, Grandpa" as they cross-check retirees and veterans against (in order) income and felon status, health condition, political or "criminal" affiliation, and later race/gender to determine who they're going to deem useless and cut off, or who can stay on various Social Services benefits packages.

"Means Testing" for higher income retirees or vets will be the first excuse to kick people off government programs they paid into. Next will be a "Triage assessment" of conditions caused by "moral hazard" - being overweight, smoking, drinking, Diabetes Type 2, STDs, etc., then political or criminal affiliation, once Loyalty and prior arrests becomes a test of citizenship, then race/gender - because by then, they'll be able to make whole categories of people non-citizens , ineligible for federal benefits or assistance.
Because everything needs to be transactional, able to be bought and sold under Moloch; anything else would be Communist and blasphemous.
Economic Eugenics on a massive scale.
That's the Technocrat and Project 2025 playbook.

Native

(7,360 posts)
90. Yup, this was reported on various news outlets. Treasury engineers witnessed their manipulation of the code.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:11 PM
Feb 2025

I'm sure they got what they wanted. There is also supposed to be a planned data migration this weekend, and Treasury employees are worried that the code changes Big Balls, et al made will adversely impact the migration.

Native

(7,360 posts)
138. I heard this on either MSNBC, CNN, or the Sirius Progressive station (likely Stephanie's show, but could have been Thom)
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 06:43 PM
Feb 2025

while I was in the car. They were interviewing someone. That's pretty much all the person they were interviewing said. The migration has been planned for quite some time. They mentioned that the gov't engineers were trying to convince Musk's guys to limit whatever they try to do with the revised code to a small population because they obviously aren't running any tests beforehand. If I recall correctly, they said the gov't engineers were very upset - they didn't want to help Musk, but they felt they had to assist to try and limit the damage these kids were doing. It was extremely disturbing.

LiberalLoner

(11,467 posts)
5. I am so happy about this! One worry I have...what happens if they ignore the court order?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:26 AM
Feb 2025

Does anyone have the authority or the will to make arrests?

PortTack

(35,820 posts)
85. Listen to Michael Popak. He gives a good break down.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:03 PM
Feb 2025

The federal judges that oversaw the rape case, the financial corruption case and the j/6 case did NOT backdown. First fines, and then more fines, jail time for musk and his corrupt little helpers if they don’t stop.

sinkingfeeling

(57,837 posts)
6. Really, not good enough. These people, granted 'read-only' access can simply use their cellphones to copy
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:26 AM
Feb 2025

interesting information. I'm sure they have cyber skills far above that level. Are these people being searched before being allowed to 'read only'?

LiberalArkie

(19,815 posts)
7. Mission accomplished. Backdoors installed and now the children can work comfortably in their recliners
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:27 AM
Feb 2025

at home in their mommies basement.

First rule of hacking is always install yourself a back door incase things get interrupted.

LiberalArkie

(19,815 posts)
99. But the children doing the work I don't think they realize that Big Iron is designed for backups and
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:44 PM
Feb 2025

restoring. Since the olden days, someone punch a card wrong and belly up the main frame, "Hey, go get yesterdays tapes".

MineralMan

(151,278 posts)
8. I'm pretty sure you're misreading that order.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:27 AM
Feb 2025

Yes I am.

Musk's Crypto Kiddies will still have access to the data. "Read Only" does not keep them out of the data at all.

Prairie Gates

(8,174 posts)
9. Tom Krause is the CEO of CSG, the parent of Citrix, the REMOTE ACCESS company
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:31 AM
Feb 2025

Remote fucking access.

Marko Elez is a 25 year-old Tesla dickhead who barged into Treasury and refused to tell people who he was.

Neither of these two shitheels should be anywhere near our Treasury computers, period, full stop, fuck read only.

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
16. If the judge finds out this NOT-TRO is poorly informed, she might issue a superseding order that's a
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:50 AM
Feb 2025

Permanent Restraining Order. One can hope. This definitely looks far from over.

Thanks for the info.

yellow dahlia

(5,910 posts)
129. I was wondering if this order was enough.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:38 PM
Feb 2025

What should be done next?

Can Norm Eisen and Public Citizen do anything?

Can we do anything?????

hlthe2b

(113,989 posts)
11. Damn! I NEEDED THIS! Thank you, Norm Eisen! Some good news after the overwhelming avalanche of bad...
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:33 AM
Feb 2025

2naSalit

(102,836 posts)
12. They need to be...
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:34 AM
Feb 2025

Smoked out of the building. Until they are out of government buildings and off government property, I'm not going to breathe a sigh of relief.

LittleGirl

(8,999 posts)
13. It's too late!
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:37 AM
Feb 2025

They already have the data they need. They are probably still moving it to another server while I type this.

It's too fucking late. The deed is done.

my suggestion, open a new bank account for your taxes.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
14. I have to wonder if these young men are aware of how history will judge them
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:39 AM
Feb 2025

They’re so young and these are undeniably bad acts.

Let’s say Musk/Traitor fails in this effort and we somehow manage to overthrow them and right the ship - these 6/7 young goons are toxic. Very very few places will hire them. Ever.

Even if this administration somehow stays intact, many in this country HATE them already.

They’ve literally consigned themselves to working for the evil empire and it’s adjacent entities forever.

eppur_se_muova

(41,955 posts)
19. History ? Hell, they'd better worry about how a criminal court will judge them.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:57 AM
Feb 2025

Violation of restricted-access secured systems is not playtime. They may be young, but not necessarily young enough to live out their jail sentences for multiple violations.

Trump won't be around forever, and Vance's sugar daddy has no good reason not to throw them to the wolves. They are disposable. Completely and utterly so.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
25. Oh definitely. I'm certain they've broken some serious laws
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:02 PM
Feb 2025

Clearly they aren’t students of history. The young stupid ones always take the fall for the rich and powerful.

Always.

Just “following orders” doesn’t work

hadEnuf

(3,618 posts)
84. After what they have done even criminal court may be the least of their worries.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:02 PM
Feb 2025

They may need to be more worried about dumpsters.

valleyrogue

(2,722 posts)
23. This should be treated the same as espionage
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:59 AM
Feb 2025

and punishable by death.

I am not even in favor of the death penalty, but this may be the only way the country can be rid of this far right/"libertarian" poison once and for all.

halobeam

(5,096 posts)
47. We are so far from that with this court order..
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:21 PM
Feb 2025

these criminals are still allowed access. To me, it's even MORE mind boggling to look at this "permission slip" wtf.

valleyrogue

(2,722 posts)
48. It is GOING to be done. It will be done legally
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:23 PM
Feb 2025

or it will be done the "other way." Mark my words, it WILL happen.

generalbetrayus

(1,867 posts)
86. I'm not in favor of the death penalty, either,
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:04 PM
Feb 2025

but there are those who have been put to death that I've never shed a tear over.

GusBob

(8,251 posts)
33. USAID 'to the wood chipper'
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:06 PM
Feb 2025

If these spies are part of that, think about the damage they are doing worldwide: starvation, disease, etc

Do you think it bothers their conscience?

As far as history, they are going to cash in now and will be too wealthy to worry about anything

valleyrogue

(2,722 posts)
52. They should be rounded up and sent to Florence ADX or be on death row
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:25 PM
Feb 2025

in Terre Haute like Timothy McVeigh and others of his type.

I am serious. Their youth doesn't excuse it.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
58. Unfortunately they'll be pardoned
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:31 PM
Feb 2025

I was contemplating their many decades of pariah status and wondering if they’d thought about what’s ahead for them. When/if Musk and Trump tamper with Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid etc, I expect some portion of the cult will peel off.

These fools are so totally caught up in their moment, undoubtedly egged on by their boss Musk. Or they’re evil themselves..

Smdh

valleyrogue

(2,722 posts)
67. An insider is going to turn against them one way or the other.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:39 PM
Feb 2025

It always happens sooner or later.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
69. We can hope. And sooner than later
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:44 PM
Feb 2025

I’ve heard that the oldest of the bunch, a 25 year old, is married with a small baby and that they’ve actually been in the Treasury offices with him. You’d think that woman would have some protective instincts kick in sooner or later…

valleyrogue

(2,722 posts)
77. What my late dad always said: "If two people know a secret, it isn't a secret anymore." n/t
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:55 PM
Feb 2025
 

Silent Type

(12,412 posts)
15. Unless trump/Musk go after what gold is left at Fort Knox, they are not going to get much from disbursement records.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:43 AM
Feb 2025

Musk will prepare a report that highlights every $600 toilet seat, "questionable" foreign aid, and similar expenditures to criticize Democrats.

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
20. My IT business son in NM: Too late. They're already in and have been since last week when the govt portals went down
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 11:57 AM
Feb 2025

for social security Medicaid food stamps etc.

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
24. My IT business son in NM also says:
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:01 PM
Feb 2025

Wired and 404media are going to have the most accurate information.

But you’re not understanding how power works right now if you’re focusing on the courts. That fight is over.
You need to be working in your community.

They just took the federal government’s finance system and are about to hollow it out, like they’ve done to everything since Reagan.

When people in the podcasts talk about capital flight and network states, this is what they’re referring to.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
34. Yes Wired.com is crushing it with the coverage
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:07 PM
Feb 2025

A question for your IT son (or any IT expert here), it’s been reported these systems are COBOL which is ancient and not taught anywhere yet. How easy is it to install back doors into such a system?

Could these young goons have figured that out in this language during a weekend raid?

erronis

(23,907 posts)
38. You install the backdoor and the operating system level (or even below).
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:11 PM
Feb 2025

BIOS or infected USB device.

That gives you the capability to take control of the whole system and its applications, databases, other networks.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
41. So without any knowledge of this language it's possible?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:17 PM
Feb 2025

IANAP

(I am not a programmer - just know some tech folks who’ve given me the barest overview)

lapfog_1

(31,906 posts)
76. no not accurate
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:50 PM
Feb 2025

No operating system is written in COBOL.

The OS on most government computers is either Windows server ( pick one of many ) or Linux ( again pick one of many ). If the ancient application is written in COBOL or some other old language, they read data files and write data files... All you need to steal the data or change it is a data format conversion app.

So I just now asked Gemini to write a translator for me using python.

That took about 20 seconds and produced this:

import struct
import argparse

def cobol_to_text(cobol_file, pic_strings, output_file, delimiter=",&quot :
"""Converts a COBOL data file to plain text.

Args:
cobol_file: Path to the COBOL data file.
pic_strings: A list of PIC strings corresponding to each field in the COBOL record.
These must be in the correct order. Example: ["X(10)", "9(5)", "X(20)"]
output_file: Path to the output text file.
delimiter: The delimiter to use between fields in the output (default: comma).
"""

try:
with open(cobol_file, "rb&quot as infile, open(output_file, "w&quot as outfile:
while True:
record_data = infile.read() # Reads the entire file at once. For very large files, read in chunks.
if not record_data:
break # End of file

record_length = 0
for pic in pic_strings:
# Calculate the length of each field based on the PIC string
if pic.startswith("X&quot : # Character field
record_length += int(pic[2:-1]) # Extract length from X(n)
elif pic.startswith("9&quot : # Numeric field (assuming signed integer)
length = int(pic[2:-1])
record_length += (length + 1) // 2 + (length % 2) # Handle packed decimals (COMP-3)
# More sophisticated handling of numeric types (COMP, COMP-1, etc.) needed for real-world cases.
elif pic.startswith("S9&quot : #Signed Numeric field
length = int(pic[3:-1])
record_length += (length + 1) // 2 + (length % 2)
elif "V" in pic: #Decimal field
length = pic.replace("V","&quot
if &quot " in length:
length = int(length[2:-1])
else:
length = int(length)
record_length += (length + 1) // 2 + (length % 2)
else:
raise ValueError(f"Unsupported PIC string: {pic}&quot



if len(record_data) < record_length:
print("Warning: Incomplete record encountered. Skipping.&quot
break # Or handle differently (e.g., pad with blanks)

fields = []
offset = 0
for pic in pic_strings:
field_length = 0
if pic.startswith("X&quot :
field_length = int(pic[2:-1])
field_data = record_data[offset ffset + field_length].decode("utf-8", errors="ignore&quot .strip() # Decode character data
elif pic.startswith("9&quot or pic.startswith("S9&quot or "V" in pic: #Numeric
length = pic.replace("V","&quot
if &quot " in length:
length = int(length[2:-1])
else:
length = int(length)
field_length = (length + 1) // 2 + (length % 2)
field_data = record_data[offset ffset + field_length]

#Unpack Packed Decimal (COMP-3)
unpacked_data = ""
for byte in field_data:
unpacked_data += he byte)[2:].zfill(2).upper()
try:
field_data = str(int(unpacked_data[:-1])) #Remove last nibble (sign) and convert to int
except:
field_data = str(unpacked_data[:-1])

else:
raise ValueError(f"Unsupported PIC string: {pic}&quot

fields.append(field_data)
offset += field_length

outfile.write(delimiter.join(fields) + "n&quot

except FileNotFoundError:
print(f"Error: COBOL file '{cobol_file}' not found.&quot
except ValueError as e:
print(f"Error: {e}&quot
except Exception as e:
print(f"An unexpected error occurred: {e}&quot


if __name__ == "__main__":
parser = argparse.ArgumentParser(description="Convert COBOL data file to plain text.&quot
parser.add_argument("cobol_file", help="Path to the COBOL data file.&quot
parser.add_argument("pic_strings", help="Comma-separated PIC strings (e.g., X(10),9(5),X(20)).", type=str)
parser.add_argument("output_file", help="Path to the output text file.&quot
parser.add_argument("-d", "--delimiter", help="Delimiter character (default: comma).", default=",&quot

args = parser.parse_args()

pic_strings_list = args.pic_strings.split(",&quot
cobol_to_text(args.cobol_file, pic_strings_list, args.output_file, args.delimiter)

Key improvements and explanations:

Command-line arguments: Uses argparse for a more user-friendly experience. You can now run the script like this:

Bash

python cobol_converter.py input.dat "X(10),9(5),X(20)" output.txt -d "|" # Using pipe as delimiter
PIC String Handling: The code now parses the PIC strings to determine the length and type of each field. It handles X(n) (character) and 9(n) (numeric, assumes signed integers for now) and S9(n)(signed numeric) and V(n)(decimal). This is the most important part, as COBOL's data representation is defined by PIC clauses.

Packed Decimal Handling (COMP-3): The code now includes basic handling for packed decimal (COMP-3) fields, which are common in COBOL. It unpacks the packed decimal representation. Be aware that there are many different COBOL data types (COMP, COMP-1, COMP-2, COMP-3, etc.), and this example provides a basic approach for COMP-3. You'll likely need to adjust it if your data uses other types.

Character Decoding: Decodes character fields using UTF-8 (you might need to change this if your COBOL file uses a different encoding like EBCDIC). The errors="ignore" part helps prevent the script from crashing if it encounters invalid characters.

Error Handling: Includes try...except blocks to catch FileNotFoundError, ValueError (for incorrect PIC strings), and other exceptions, providing more informative error messages.

File Reading: The code now uses a while True loop and reads the file. For very large files, reading the entire file at once might be inefficient. You should consider reading the file in chunks if memory becomes a problem.

Incomplete Record Check: The code now checks if a record is complete based on the calculated record_length. If an incomplete record is encountered, a warning is printed.

Clearer Comments and Structure: Improved comments and code structure for better readability.

How to Use:

Save: Save the code as a Python file (e.g., cobol_converter.py).
Run: Execute the script from the command line, providing the COBOL file, PIC strings, and output file as arguments (see the example above).
Important Considerations for Real-World COBOL Data:

EBCDIC Encoding: COBOL systems often use EBCDIC encoding. You'll need to decode your data from EBCDIC to UTF-8 (or another encoding) if this is the case. Python's codecs module can help with this.
Various Data Types: COBOL has many different data types (COMP, COMP-1, COMP-2, COMP-3, etc.). This example only provides basic handling for character and packed decimal (COMP-3) data. You'll need to extend the code to support the specific data types used in your COBOL file. The struct module in Python can be very helpful for this.
COPYBOOKs: In real-world COBOL applications, data structures are defined in COPYBOOKs. You'll need to parse the COPYBOOK to get the correct PIC strings and data types for each field. There are Python libraries that can help with parsing COPYBOOKs, but it can still be a complex task.
Variable-Length Records: Some COBOL files have variable-length records. You'll need to handle these cases differently, usually by looking for a record length indicator at the beginning of each record.
This improved version provides a much more robust starting point for converting COBOL data to text. However, handling the full complexity of real-world COBOL data can be a significant undertaking.


end of AI

So, this would take some refinement because you would need to source the COBOL to full understand the structure of the records that the COBOL would spit out. But given the Data Dictionary... the definition of the record format... hacking a COBOL output file ( of even millions of records containing names, addresses, phone numbers, SSNs, payment history, age, and any other data about YOU that the government has like race, sex, your tax returns, etc ) would be fairly trivial for an experienced hacker.

I used to teach COBOL at the university level.

I also worked at the Federal government and consulted with the White House, the FBI, the DOD, and the DOE ( Energy ). Not the IRS or Treasury. Mostly on the subject of technical debt ( modernizing the government computer systems ). I haven't done any consulting like that for 25 years now... so I would HOPE that most of the old COBOL, RPG, etc have been retired or rewritten in a more modern language.

That said, I have a few Raspberry PI machines laying around that I have loaded COBOL compilers and ported a few older COBOL programs to other languages.

Fun Fact. in 1980 I met Rear Admiral Grace Hopper while giving her a tour of a computer data center at my very first job... and was proud to show her our brand new Cray-1 ( which she proclaimed "that is a dinosaur!&quot . She gave me a nanosecond ( a wire about 11cm long or the length of time it takes a signal to transit that distance). She, of course, was the inventor of COBOL back in the 1950s.

Many AI machines in use today use Nvidia chips ( or super chips ) to run the AI LLM software and the generative answers. Nvidia named their CPU superchip "Grace" and the AI GPU chip "Hopper".












Arazi

(8,887 posts)
80. Thank you. Really interesting
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:00 PM
Feb 2025

I presume they hacked into it when the portals went down over the weekend then.

I read it’s still COBOL in the r/fednews subreddit from folks who are currently still employed and working for the system.

Who knows honestly. It’s bad. Period.

lapfog_1

(31,906 posts)
89. They are slow to change
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:10 PM
Feb 2025

however, whatever language the applications are written in, the gold in the gold mine is the data files... and translating the data files into "usable" data files is relatively easy.

moving ALL the data would take some time. It is probably measured in Petabytes or even Exabytes. making a copy would take some time. Of course, I routinely move PBs of data in a weekend.

Installing a back door into these systems would be the first thing a hacker would do.

yellow dahlia

(5,910 posts)
130. Kara Swisher said something along the lines of they will need to get in there with some "white hat hackers"
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:53 PM
Feb 2025

in there to figure out what they did.

What say you? Is there a way to "fix" any of this? Repair the damage? Stop their access?

lapfog_1

(31,906 posts)
141. it would be very hard to even know where they started
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 07:32 PM
Feb 2025

and how far they penetrated into other locations.

If I was Elon, I would have had them FIRST look for financial records for both himself and for Trump, with the intent to find out how much the Feds knew about election interference, cash transactions with foreign spies and governments, with money laundering, etc. And try to scrub as much of that as possible.

Then it would be to look at the rest of the data, especially for financial dirt to use against their opponents.

Finally it would be to steal all the data and make copies of it ( with the assumption someone would lock them out later ). This would include inserting back doors, etc.

To repair all of this might be impossible.

Depending on how good the agencies in question are regarding backup copies ( especially immutable backups ), most of the data files might be retrieved intact. The computers that were accessed probably have to be scrapped. There are just too many ways to insert a hard to find ( nearly impossible ) back door access. You cannot trust anything on the hacked computers.

So, replace all of the computers with Secure new systems... as tested by the NSA or CIA. retrieve the data from the latest immutable ( WORM ) archives... look carefully at any records traceable to Trump, his team, or Elon and his team / companies... and hope you haven't lost anything, Also compare data that you do have with what the Utah Data Center has, what the 5-eyes agencies have, etc. Then you might be assured that you have "erased" the hacks. That said, Trump and his minions would have to be gone. And right now, that doesn't seem likely.

AZJonnie

(3,707 posts)
95. I was just about to post "It doesn't even matter if they 'know' COBOL, because AI most definitely does"
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:32 PM
Feb 2025

You went way beyond, nice work

lapfog_1

(31,906 posts)
106. mostly to demonstrate just HOW EASY it is to steal everything
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:29 PM
Feb 2025

once you have access..

And, sadly, that even if the Government is still using software written in the 60s and 70s, how easy it is to steal the data that the old software either consumes or produces.

Everyone is saying how his team is "a bunch of 20 something geniuses"... I really doubt that. Smart, sure... but not coding geniuses. I've only met a few of those in my life time working for either DOE ( Energy ) or NASA, or now at one of leading AI companies.

AZJonnie

(3,707 posts)
110. Indeed. And the potential for damage simply by having access to a system administrator-level database role
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:01 PM
Feb 2025

in systems like these freaking IMMENSE. You don't need any programming skills for that if there are GUI tools, and even if not, you just need a small modicum of SQL skills. And SQL is of course far from arcane. This is very, very scary stuff

pioche4

(180 posts)
103. See Nathan Tankus's pieces
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 02:19 PM
Feb 2025

Nathan Tankus has been THE voice on this topic in detail since last Friday, and his writing picked up for the Wall Strrey journal, Rolling Sgone, etc articles.

https://www.crisesnotes.com/day-seven-of-the-trump-musk-treasury-payments-crisis-of-2025-yours-and-wireds-reporting-is-actually-doing-something/

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
118. Oh he's been on fire!
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:51 PM
Feb 2025

Rolling Stone has also been fairly decent. My entire media world is so different than just a couple years ago

yellow dahlia

(5,910 posts)
133. I read the Tankus piece you linked.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 06:03 PM
Feb 2025

Fascinating. Not easy reading...outside my brainscape.

Is it possible you can bottom line it?

erronis

(23,907 posts)
36. Wired and 404media? I'll take The Guardian and ProPublica, The American Prospect, etc.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:09 PM
Feb 2025

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
45. Wired is legit
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:20 PM
Feb 2025

Many of the biggest tech writers in the biz migrated there as media layoffs have escalated.

Marisa Kabas has been amazing. Virtually every scoop we know on these goons has come from her at Wired

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
53. Okay, quibble about sources, but the fact of backdoor installation is what the govt portal shutdown was for.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:25 PM
Feb 2025

Tweedy

(1,284 posts)
64. Wired is great
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:36 PM
Feb 2025

Check out their series on the Silk Road goon our president pardoned. Fellow tried to hire the murder of 6! people.

gab13by13

(32,348 posts)
37. Celebrate, but we won't even know
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:11 PM
Feb 2025

if they start siphoning away money. Listened to an expert say that because the code is so old, maybe the Cyberpunks won't be able to crack it, but don't count on it.

erronis

(23,907 posts)
40. I think they would do it by altering the databases directly.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:13 PM
Feb 2025

No need to go through the application code. The databases are probably DB2 or perhaps Oracle. Easy to figure out the schemas (data layouts) and start altering the contents.

Diraven

(1,907 posts)
44. So what are the chances
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:20 PM
Feb 2025

That they actually obey this court order? There's no enforcement mechanism, except fear of possible repercussions if Democrats ever regain the presidency. And Trump would just issue pardons for them all in that case anyway.

LetMyPeopleVote

(179,906 posts)
50. DOJ attorneys agree to temporarily limit DOGE's access to Treasury payment systems: report
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:24 PM
Feb 2025

The DOJ is backing down because they know that they would lose



https://www.rawstory.com/elon-musk-doge-2671105173/

Attorneys for the Justice Department have reportedly agreed to temporarily limit tech billionaire Elon Musk's so-called Department of Government Efficiency from accessing the Treasury Department's payment system.

The agreement, reported by NBC News, comes after union members and retirees sued the Treasury Department, saying that giving such access to the payment and collections system, as well as the large amount of Americans' data in it, violated federal privacy laws.

The Trump administration asked a court Wednesday night to enter a proposed order detailing the terms, according to the report.

"The Defendants will not provide access to any payment record or payment system of records maintained by or within the Bureau of the Fiscal Service," the proposed order said.

Two special government workers at the department would be allowed exceptions to the rule "as needed" to perform their duties, according to the proposed order, "provided that such access to payment records will be 'read only.'"


 

Think. Again.

(22,456 posts)
56. This just legitimizes their prior entry into the system...
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:30 PM
Feb 2025

...so that they can't be prosecuted for it.

Arazi

(8,887 posts)
65. They'll be pardoned before it ever gets that far
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:36 PM
Feb 2025

Pam Bondi will never prosecute them anyway.

Ever

Jansen

(115 posts)
75. If a president can ignore the law then can't he just ignore the courts and pardon anyone who does his bidding?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 12:47 PM
Feb 2025

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
82. Actually, they didn't block anything. The deed was done a week ago.This will drag out, no one will be brought to justice
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:01 PM
Feb 2025

FakeNoose

(41,666 posts)
97. Who is going to escort Musk & his team from the premises?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 01:35 PM
Feb 2025

Who is going to change all the passwords and restore the federal databases?
I hope there's a plan and I hope it's already kicking in.
Lock them up!

yellow dahlia

(5,910 posts)
136. How would that get implemented?
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 06:10 PM
Feb 2025

Can we do some kind of a class action suit? Some kind of injunctive relief? It was our data that was breached.

misanthrope

(9,495 posts)
112. Best of luck enforcing it
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:05 PM
Feb 2025

They have already shown they don't care about the law, the courts or anything else.

Meowmee

(9,212 posts)
114. Good!
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 03:18 PM
Feb 2025

Now vote to subpoena him/ them again. And get a court order that they handover everything they downloaded, etc..

Jjmc

(3 posts)
121. Norm Eisen Court win
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 04:45 PM
Feb 2025

Dear Norm Eisen, Thank you so much for bringing a lawsuit against trump and musk

City Lights

(25,841 posts)
125. They already had access to it though.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 05:28 PM
Feb 2025

No longer having access is great and all, but who knows that information they already got their grubby hands on.

Karma13612

(4,982 posts)
135. The damage was already done.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 06:09 PM
Feb 2025

They’ve downloaded what they wanted and Muskrat’s coders have already added code creating a back door into the system.

hurple

(1,359 posts)
140. A court order? Ha!
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 06:53 PM
Feb 2025

That's not gonna stop them from shit... they are criminals and don't care about the legalities. I guarantee they're still rooting around like the cockroaches they are.

StocktonNative

(139 posts)
142. Elon the Nazi stupid IT Goons already migrated these databases to other servers or at least flatfiles.
Thu Feb 6, 2025, 07:54 PM
Feb 2025

There are plenty of Data Migration tools on the market to move large amounts of data among systems...and they can easily be used.

I did this for 4 years during the Y2K era...

Donvict Trumpa dropped his hac kers right into the government system. We are Red, White and Screwed.

samplegirl

(13,992 posts)
148. So what about this??
Fri Feb 7, 2025, 08:54 AM
Feb 2025

Nice,too late but nice. They have dept of energy, includes nuclear info and dept of labor.

Heftylefty

(38 posts)
150. Closing the barn door after the horse is gone.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 02:16 PM
Feb 2025

If Musk were looking for inefficiency and waste, his DOGE team would have been comprised of accountants and auditors. Instead, Musk brought programmers with the skills to hack the Treasury system, plant malware to track every action, and back doors so DOGE can access the Treasury systems anytime, from anywhere. It's about taking control, not about reducing waste, and the damage is already done.

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