We might know where all the missing Dem ballots went

[Danascot]

This is Ethan Shaotran. He's one of Musk's DOGE takeover hackers

2 yrs ago he won the Berkeley AI Hackathon

But in 2020 won the HackGT7 with a ballot altering program called BallotProof

Here's the deep dive that he couldn't scrub....

I think we might know where all the missing Dem ballots went

This is Ethan Shaotran. He's one of Musk's DOGE takeover hackers

2 yrs ago he won the Berkeley AI Hackathon

But in 2000 won the HackGT7 with a ballot altering program called BallotProof

Here's the deep dive that he couldn't scrub....

— Denise Wheeler (@denisedwheeler.bsky.social) 2025-02-08T20:12:57.958Z

[CousinIT]

1. Well isn't THAT interesting. nt

[pandr32]

2. It's worth reading that whole thread.

My gawd! Our laws and enforcement need to catch up with these hackers.

[yellow dahlia]

78. That is exactly what I have been thinking.

Congressman Dan Goldman is investigating the election. Not sure he has this information yet.

I wanted to email him, but can't because not in his district.

I have wanted to forward this to him also. Anybody in his district?
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

Mr. Dahlia says there is no mechanism to correct a stolen election. We need to find one!

[ificandream]

129. You could always snail mail him.

[2naSalit]

3. Imagine that!

[kimbutgar]

4. Funny a couple days after the election it came to me that they hacked the machines

I’m not conspiratorial but it was weird how I imagined how they could do it by changing algorithms and tabulations of machines.

I hope it gets uncovered.

[elocs]

7. I have a neighbor who told me she was first in line at our polling place

who told me that after she voted she couldn't get the machine that count's the votes to take her. She asked for help and somebody came and the machine was replaced. She asked if her vote was counted and was told "yes". Likely it was what it was but it does show how trusting we are of believing what we are told by those in charge.

[kimbutgar]

25. I think that's why the🍑💩🤡 demanded that our Governor Newsom do away with mail in voting

The ballots are counted and tallied on machines that are not connected to the internet and recounted if they feel there are no irregularities.

We MUST find out what was done otherwise we will never have a free and fair election and reflect the will of the people.

And I remember reading that the 🍑💩🤡 asked his magaloons to volunteer work at the polls. The fix was in also when he said you’d never have to vote again.

[LSparkle]

28. I've said from the get-go: Harris did NOT LOSE

The count was manipulated ... a smidge in each of the swing states and voila, instant fascism.

[Alliepoo]

43. I believe you are right.

I was absolutely shocked that the Dems didn’t raise holy he££ especially after the swing states fell so nicely into place for donvict. There is no way that he so neatly won those states. No way. A forensic investigation should have been demanded.

[yellow dahlia]

82. I, and others, were jumping up and down and pushing for recounts -

paper ballot hand recounts.

And here is more:
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

[calguy]

57. I feel the same as you

But I have no concrete proof, and at this point, it’s too late to do anything about it.
In the end, it’s up to Democrats to show up in such numbers that we have more votes, no matter how much they cheat.
We, the entire Democratic voting block, just didn’t do it.
Until our special interest groups learn to put their pet cause aside until after the election, we are doomed to lose against the better funded Republican Party.

[Bluetus]

62. It is NOT too late to do something constructive.

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2025, 10:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Unless the ballots themselves were destroyed or manipulated (or there was paperless voting) the most likely vote tampering schemes could be exposed simply by performing audits of counties that had peculiar tallies. Most of the swing states have Dem Governors. you would think that we could have some kind of audit in at least one state. At this stage, that would not set the election right, but at least we would know if something underhanded happened.

If we find no vote rigging, then we know we have serious problems in how we select our candidates and how we message the voters. But if we discovered there was a substantial amount of tampering with the "vote counting computers", that would call for a completely different battle plan toward the 2026 elections and beyond.

[yellow dahlia]

87. Agreed. I and others, were asking for paper ballot hand recounts,

after the election. We have gotten some flack on this forum.

Recently when any of us bring up the constant evidence about malfeasance in the election, we are often met with diminishing remarks.

If I am wrong about my conclusions, I will apologize - loudly and often...BUT.

Have you seen this?
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

[Bluetus]

99. Just remember, the loudest voices aren't necessarily the majority

And they aren't necessarily the best informed. Often they are the ones who have been repeating the same "conventional wisdom" that the Beltway creatures have been cranking out for several generations now.

Things are different in the teabag/MAGA/Newsmax/Rogan/Musk/Jan6 era. The conventional wisdom was probably never very true, and it certainly no longer is very useful. We are in a different place now and we must think clearly about the threats we face today. Unfortunately the apparatus of voting, including suppression, has become more important than any other part of the electoral equation.

This isn't a new thing. Clearly this screwed up in 2000 and the country paid a dear price, getting into the longest war in our nation's history, and then that administration ended with an economic meltdown second only to the Great Depression. This time the consequences are even greater, striking at the fundamentals of our Constitutional system.

[returnee]

72. I too was disappointed..

with Dems not following through on checking the counts. I think this was one of the effects of TSF’s constantly complaining about election fraud. The dems felt ot would look like tit-for-tat poor sportsmanship. Totally naive move, imho. You’ll never convince me the counts were correct.

[yellow dahlia]

88. Agreed. Psychological warfare.

Reverse mind control.

[yellow dahlia]

85. They will control the next election also.

We need to do a lot of things to address it. Continuing to talk about it is important.

Here is more.
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

[Woodycall]

120. And the one after that. And the one after that. And the one after that...

[yellow dahlia]

124. Yes. Which is why I wish the Dems would focus on saving Democracy,

rather than talking about strategies to win in 2026 and 2028.

[yellow dahlia]

81. Yup! And those of us who have been saying this have had some push back

on this forum.

Have you seen this?
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

[yellow dahlia]

79. I had the same impression.

There are those, on this platform, who have gotten annoyed with some of us for pointing it out.

Have you seen this link?
https://www.thenumbersarewrong2024.com/

[elocs]

5. Democrats are too noble and proud to ever claim they had an election stolen from us. We're too smart for that.

Only the stupid Trump and his Magas claim the had an election stolen from us.

[orangecrush]

71. Bush vs. Gore

[DiamondShark]

127. 6% lower turn out in the swing state I live in.

Any idea why less people voted in 2024 vs 2020?

[MiKenMi33]

6. I have no doubt this election was stolen.

It’s depressing and stirs me to so much anger to even think about it because nothing is being done and nothing will be done. Unless there are things being done behind the scenes that we don’t know about, then I can only conclude that dems are spineless or afraid.

[rainin]

10. Agree 100%. We're shouting into the void, though.

I don't understand why there's such a willingness to roll over and play dead. Especially when it was so obvious and the stakes were so high. Inexplicable.

[colorado_ufo]

44. Harris should have demanded recounts in several states.

She was the candidate, she should have demanded the recounts. I don't care whose feathers it ruffled.

[yellow dahlia]

91. Yes. I was screaming it from the rooftops.

[MiKenMi33]

109. Exactly right!

We know about this and I have no doubt it’s true then there is no doubt the Harris Team knows about it as well. Are the dems just going to let it go?! Maybe file a few lawsuits to show us they’re fighting. That’s BS.

[tritsofme]

110. So now your conspiracy theory is so ridiculous that you are accusing Harris of being complicit?

Harris didn’t file lawsuits because there was no basis to do so.

Unlike Trump, she obviously had no interest in lying to her supporters about her loss, nor did she have any interest in scamming her supporters out of millions of dollars to wage a fake fight.

[MiKenMi33]

114. That is not at all what I'm saying.

And I’m sorry if my post came off that way. That wasn’t my intention. The Harris Team is absolutely not complicit. This has all just came out in the last few weeks. Thom Hartman was talking about Greg Palast’s research a week or so ago on his program which goes along with this. The research appears to be solid. Something needs to be done to stop this or dems will lose every election going forward. Yes Harris should be our president but she isn’t. If this research is true, then it needs to be followed up.

[tritsofme]

133. The Harris team isn't hanging on the edge of their seats waiting for Palast to release his next tranche of nonsense.

Harris’ team had a billion dollars and the best election lawyers on the planet, and yet none of them, or actual highly respected experts like Marc Elias have embraced these conspiracy theories.

[colorado_ufo]

130. Er . . .. no - she just should have confirmed the loss or fought for her legitimate win.

Simple.

[tritsofme]

132. Harris did confirm her loss when she conceded.

[colorado_ufo]

135. There is a difference between acknowledgement and confirmation.

You need to confirm that your acknowledgement was correct.

[tritsofme]

136. Ok...did so did she not do that on January 6th while presiding over the certification of the election?

[colorado_ufo]

137. You could view it that way, but presiding over the certification was a requirement of her position..

To say that she should not have presided over the counting of the ballots or rejected states possibly in question is akin to what Trump was instructing Pence to do - to reject ballots and throw the election to the state legislatures.

The time to ask for recounts was before that.

[tritsofme]

138. There was no reason to ask for recounts. None of the states were close enough to warrant it.

Harris had access to an enormous amount of funding, the best election lawyers in the world, and credible real experts like Mike Elias.

And yet these conspiracy theories are limited to fringe figures like Palast.

[colorado_ufo]

139. Thank you for a thoughtful discussion.

[DiamondShark]

128. Harris should have demanded people GOTV. n/t

[yellow dahlia]

90. Agreed.

[BComplex]

18. I'm with you, MiKenMi33! I've known it from the get-go.

In fact, trump TOLD us it was stolen. WHERE IN THE HELL IS DEMOCRATIC LEADERSHIP??? If this doesn't start getting some press, we need to primary the whole lot of them!

[yellow dahlia]

89. Agreed. One of my daily angsts that lives with me.

I made a few replies. You can check them out.

[Butterflylady]

8. Elon had to do something to make sure F47 won

So he could do what he's doing now. 270 million dollars can do amazing damage. Follow the money 💰.

[StarryNite]

9. Follow the money and the power.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

69. More like 40 billion

he bought and changed the algorithm on the Twitter/X to benefit the orange one..it was a money loser but a huge propaganda winner for them both

[arthritisR_US]

115. That is the problem in your "democracy" your Supreme Criminals

paved out Citizens United to screw you all over and give you what you and the rest in the world are living through and there’s more to come. So many Bastards!😖

[speak easy]

11. In every state?

This is CT.

[phylny]

12. Probably only the swing states.

Even in Virginia, while Harris lost ground she won. We are not considered a swing state for presidential elections. We have paper ballots that are fed into the machines, and then there are random audits around the state. They probably figured they didn't need all the states and concentrated on the swing states.

[Polybius]

80. Trump was not popular, but a polled a few points higher than he did in 2020 (low 40's vs. mid-high 40's)

Biden was 15 points lower than where he was in 2020. Harris was tied to the Biden Administration, and not differentiating from him greatly hurt her.

[qazplm135]

119. Harris lost ground everywhere

Swing states, not swing states.

If we are to believe something targeted swing states then you'd not expect to see narrowing margins in VA, NM, MN, and quite frankly many other states. If I saw 2020 numbers in these states and 24 numbers in swing states, I'd might be more prone to take this seriously. But that didn't happen.

Believing it targeted everywhere is equally problematic because the systems used are simply too varied and not conjoined.

[LisaL]

27. They didn't need to hack every state.

Especially in a close election.

[dchill]

40. You have no idea, do you?

You've picked your team, so to speak. And there are no big ball hackers inside to government agencies that Democrats can't enter.

[ancianita]

13. Note this:

Denise Wheeler‬ ‪@denisedwheeler.bsky.social‬
16h
Look at that. Shaotran already knew Musk when he was building the ballot software program.

They built the program for a hackathon (at Georgia Tech) that Musk sponsored.

‪bitstop.bsky.social‬ ‪@bitstop.bsky.social‬
26m
The solution is to arrest Ethan Shaotran for voter tampering in a democratic swing state, then put enormous pressure on him presenting the evidence you have here, and get him to flip on elon and Trump.

[johnnyfins]

16. And just who will arrest him?

[rubbersole]

22. Kash Patel.

Just appeal to his patriotic decent side.

[SergeStorms]

77. 😂 That's worth a heart!

"Just appeal to his patriotic decent side." Funniest statement I've read in months. Thanks for the laugh, rubbersole!

[rubbersole]

98. Thank you!

[ancianita]

23. Depends on the swing state. MI went to Trump. Dana Nessel is one badass AG.

With evidentiary cause she can file charges for that state. Dude will have to get a defense lawyer and show up.

It just might go downhill for Shaotran, muskrat and the felon from there.

[yellow dahlia]

92. Great idea! Dana Nessel is great.

And there are other Democratic swing state AG's that could do something.

[dickthegrouch]

46. The FEC

Oh wait, they’ve been disbanded already.

[GiqueCee]

14. As I've said several times recently...

... Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for FAR, FAR less than this. This is treason on an epic scale, and in a manner that the framers of the Constitution could never have imagined. The extremely narrow Constitutional definition of treason does not encompass any act of such breadth and depth as this. There can be NO "Truth and Reconciliation" bullshit for a crime of such enormity and bottomless evil. and NO pardons!
The Sinister Six on the SCOTUS will have some 'splainin' to do.

[rubbersole]

24. Sedition is the crime unless we're at war.

tsf let convicted seditionists out of jail. Just imagine if Obama had done this.

[yellow dahlia]

93. Hear! Hear!

[Mountainguy]

15. Still waiting to somebody to tell me how

they "hacked" air-gapped machines in 50 different systems without anyone noticing.

And before somebody chimes in with "They only needed to do it in swing states!!!!" That doesn't explain why we saw the same movement in non-swing states too. Uniform movement is typical of elections, and that's what we saw. Nearly nowhere in the country saw Harris overperform Biden.

[Wiz Imp]

17. This is very disturbing

However, there is one major issue with this theory - how were the votes hacked?

https://abcnews.go.com/US/election-fact-check-voting-machines-work-hard-hack/story?id=114902274

Election fact check: How voting machines work and why they're hard to hack

While no system is ever completely impervious to threats, voting machines are protected by a range of technical and procedural measures that make them extremely difficult to hack.

Using encryption and digital signing for data, cryptographic modules that meet the Federal Information Processing Standard (FIPS) and creating encrypted USB flash drives programmed for that specific election all prevent tampering by unauthorized agents, according to ES&S.

The machines used to scan ballots at a voting precinct are incapable of having any Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, radio or network connection at all, according to Trowbridge. "Those systems absolutely cannot have any network," Trowbridge said. "In fact, if you look at the machines from Clear Ballot, the only wire that comes out of them is a power cord."

Even if a hacker attempts to access a voting machine, they would need to physically tamper with the machine itself, which may be more challenging due to the physical security measures.

[kimbutgar]

29. It's the tabulation formula in the software

One vote for Kamala becomes 2 votes for the 🍑💩🤡. it’s the tabulation formula how votes are tallied. One who has knowledge how to rig software code can change just one line of coding can make a difference.

I took a software coding class in the early 20’s in a computer and software class and a couple of days after the election I figured out what the musk🐀did !

[Wiz Imp]

36. And how are they accessing those computers?

They're not connected to the internet

[kimbutgar]

41. The software is written in the tabulation code and it doesn't need to be connected to the internet.

[Wiz Imp]

42. And how is that getting on the computers?

[kimbutgar]

56. The machines need specific coded software to run the tabulations that's all

But someone with more extensive knowledge would know how to mess with that software.

[Wiz Imp]

59. And how does that software get on the machines?

Listen, I'm done with this. You obviously don't have an explanation for how every machine all got hacked . They couldn't have been accessed via the internet since they weren't connected. So the only explanation is someone physically went into each individual machine and made the necessary changes. That idea is ludicrous on its face. You don't think someone would have noticed this?

Nice try, but another miss of a conspiracy theory.

[slightlv]

64. Anyone who has worked in government can give you an answer,

depending on the "original" software and the origination point, it's fairly easy. All systems are "installed" via one originating install disk. There isn't so much as an installation, as a wipe and copy. Our IT department, in fact, made it the de facto solution to ANY problem on a system. Just wipe it and lay the information down new. Doesn't have to be connected to anything else, although it will take a lot of time to it all systems.

That one piece of code they're talking about doesn't have to be state specific, but I'm sure they could find a work around if that were the case. We did for machines that HAD to keep running Legacy software. Meanwhile, make a copy of the originating "install" disk and ship it out to everyone else with instructions on how to "install"...

Could be done a lot quicker IF the systems were networked, either internally or via the 'Net... but that kills the idea that the voting systems had NEVER been connected to the Internet. Doesn't kill the fact they COULD have been linked via an IntraNet.

I'm not a good coder or a hacker, but with my 40+ years of experience, this is how I could see it being done on the sly and easily. And for most people not IT-savvy, it could probably slip by them pretty easily. After all, if an IT guy said do it, who would they be to argue?

[kimbutgar]

68. Thank you for this explanation

I learned basic coding years ago but I could easily see how the code could be changed to affect the tabulation of votes.

[Chemical Bill]

103. Back in the early days of DU...

we had raw data from exit polls and official results available. It was easily demonstrated that machines from one company were on the nose compared to exit polling, and machines from another were skewed several points towards the R column compared to the exits.

I know it's hard to believe that a proprietary system owned by a Republican might possibly come from the factory loaded to skew results, but....

I never take the point of view that I must understand how something happened for it to be true. I still don't get how those big bees fly.

[SonOfNebanaube]

118. irrelevant

STUXNET. The Internet is on the grid. Ergo, on the grid is on the net.

[Pachamama]

121. Updates and Code patch

Can easily be done and under the guise of being a security patch. Election boards do them regularly.

It actually wouldn’t be that hard to do.

[reACTIONary]

19. Jeeze, not this shit again....

.... BallotProof was a collaborative effort by four students to help voters make sure their mail in ballots are compliment with the local rules and regulations before mailing them in. What, exactly is wrong with that?

It's a great idea, and I'm glad the four of them thought it up, implemented it, and won recognition for it.

https://devpost.com/software/ballotproof-vision

Introduction
With an emphasis on social distancing and remote engagement as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic mail-in voting surged from 24.9% to 50.3% of ballots [1] in the 2016 and 2020 primaries, respectively. This surge will also trigger an unfortunate increase in ballots rejected due to the avoidable human error; we’ve already started to see the effects, with half a million ballots rejected [2] in the 2020 primaries. As first-time voters, this issue is extremely critical to us as our generation seeks democratic representation. In an effort to reduce rejection rates, we introduce BallotProof, a methodology built for faster, smarter, and more secure validation of ballots.

What It Does
BallotProof is built from the ground up with ease of use and security in mind. As a result, the platform was developed with a server-independent structure, with all image analysis done on the client-side to avoid any risk of data leakage. BallotProof takes in input images of the front and back sides of your ballot and uses image analysis to specifically determine which errors can prevent your critical vote from being counted. We handle everything for you from start to finish, with automatic cropping of your pictures to showing exactly which sections in which errors were made and specific templates made for your unique ballot.

Our methods are currently able to point out if you've made any of the following:

Incorrect pen colors
Blank sections
Excessive bubble fill-ins
Improper write-in format
Ban bubble fill-ins
And much more!
And all you need to do is enter your address and take pictures of two images without fear of your data being compromised!

Devrath Iyer (Stanford '24) Ethan Shaotran (Harvard '25) Koushik Sridhar (UNC '24) Pratham Soni (Stanford '24)

[Linda ladeewolf]

20. Skum (my favorite name for Leon)probably planned this for years.

He wasn’t trying to make the ballots safe, he was simply trying to find the best way to change the votes without being caught. A hand recount would have shown the discrepancies. And we dems just let it go without a fight.

[Silent Type]

21. We lost. Ballots were not changed. Need to accept that and move on. But many won't.

[LisaL]

26. I dunno.

Elon sure seem to employ a lot of hackers.
So how exactly can you be so sure?

[Meowmee]

73. Make a note

Whenever this comes up the same voices start attacking it… coincidence?

[DiamondShark]

134. Because some of us worked for the county election department. n/t

[Maraya1969]

31. How did Trump win the popular vote? He has yet to poll over 50%

I think it has been 30 years and only 1 republican has won the popular vote once - George Bush's second term

[totodeinhere]

35. He won a plurality of votes. It happened because he was able to deceive too many voters.

Now many of those voters are beginning to realize that they made a grave mistake. But unfortunately it is too late. The damage has been done.

[Chemical Bill]

105. Have you read...

Was The 2004 Presidential Election Stolen, by Freeman? It has a good analysis of the second W "victory".

[LSparkle]

32. Disagree strongly -- all OUR legal votes may not have been counted

[Silent Type]

37. I'll listen to any proof you think you have, unless it's Greg Palast type BS. I think VP Harris would have filed law

suits if ballots weren't counted, but I guess the GOPers claimed they won in 2020, so we think we should in 2024.

I'm concentrating on midterms.

[Chemical Bill]

108. If you have something...

that demonstrates that Palast is wrong, I would like to see it. Thank you.

[Silent Type]

111. Yes. Not one of those 3 to 4 million voters that Palast calculates ever came forward to say, "I showed

up at polls and was told I could not vote, I thought I was registered.”

Second, many of those “purged” were GOPers, even if only 30%. Third, you think Biden admin wouldn’t have done something if that were case.

Fourth, your turn.

[Chemical Bill]

116. Well...

First, I have seen people on video who say that they were at the polls and could not vote. One woman in Georgia still lived in the house that she raised her kids and entertained her grandkids, but she was told that she was removed from the rolls because she "moved". But this is anecdotal evidence, whereas statistics show proof.

Second, yes, maybe as much as 30% were not Democratic voters. It would follow that the percentage was close to the recorded vote from that precinct. Did you know that SoS Harris, in Florida in 2000, purged about 54,000 voters in mostly Democratic areas. Even if less that half would have voted, and 30% went GOP, Gore would have won by over 8000. That's stastical evidence that says purges matter.

Third, what was in the John Lewis Voting Rights Act that Republicans tanked? And what did the Supremes gut from the 1964 Voting Rights Act in the last several years? Holding that Democrats must not see a problem because they haven't solved it isn't logical.

[Silent Type]

117. I'll accept the anecdotal 1 case. If you'll acknowledge most purges are legit. I've been purged at least 4 times

because I moved. In my rube red state, you have to go like 7 years within voting and failing to respond to one, sometimes two, mailings.

Personally, if anyone is going to cheat it’s GOPers. They would drive to 4 districts to cast fraudulent votes if voters were never purged.

[Chemical Bill]

140. Some, not most. n/t

[Polybius]

84. I only wish that we were around in 1984

I have no doubt that the majority would have said Mondale will win.

[zorbasd]

30. The question is,

how did they hack every precinct in every county of all the swing states.

[totodeinhere]

34. Right. The conspiracy theorists on DU do not have an answer for that. n/t

[Linda ladeewolf]

47. They probably

Didn’t have to. Only certain counties would have had to be hacked. They knew from previous elections how these counties voted. They calculated how many votes they were going to need, probably based on 2020 and then did only the votes they would have needed to beat that. Democrats don’t like to look like election deniers or conspiracy theorists so no danger. We are too politically correct. I was pretty sure something was wrong, when my DH who hates conspiracies with a passion said something was wrong.

[totodeinhere]

33. Come on people, The election was NOT stolen. All of these conspiracy theories on DU

are making us look as wacky as the MAGA 2020 election deniers. I thought we were the sane ones but I am beginning to wonder. Do you seriously believe that Vice President Harris would have conceded if there were even a slight chance that there were election irregularities? I give her much more credit than that. The DNC had an army of lawyers all ready to go if there were any signs of irregularities.

We have a decentralized election system. Almost every state is different. Voting machines are not connected to the Internet and there is no way that Musk could have had access to them. Please stop the crazy conspiracies and face the sad fact that we lost, period. You are turning DU into a laughing stock.

[Trust_Reality]

49. So encourage them keep investigating quietly until they have overwhelming evidence - if it exists.

Did you follow the forensic-like report (which is outside my badly outdate coding knowledge also)?

[totodeinhere]

54. Of course. We have to be seriously investigating everything.

I did not say that we should not investigate. But the lawyers who were tasked with investigating did not find anything substantial enough to cause our party leaders to contest the election.

[Cirsium]

51. Yes

Yes, I certainly believe that Vice President Harris would have conceded if there were even a slight chance that there were election irregularities? I believe that Harris would have conceded if there were overwhelming evidence that there were election irregularities. Of course. What would you expect her to do?

The entire party was way too far down the "elections are fair and honest"path to do a 180. MAGA suckered us into that position with their "rigged elections" mantra.

"Making us look as wacky as the MAGA 2020 election deniers?" Are you kidding? To whom?

Trump accused President Obama of taking thousands of classified documents when he left the White House. Does that mean that if we say that Trump took classified documents when he left the White House that would make us look as wacky as MAGAs?

[totodeinhere]

53. We went down the "elections are fair and honest"path because we are the honest and sane side.

We went down that path because we are right. The elections are fair and honest. The Biden Administration to its credit made sure of that. The MAGA election denies are either liars or insane. We are not.

[Cirsium]

58. No we weren't

Elections are not fair and honest, far from it. I don't know how any Democrat can believe otherwise. It is just amazing how effective the right wing propaganda is. They control not only their own followers, but they control their opposition by getting their opponents to accept their framing on all of the issues, by defining what the opposition positions should be.

[totodeinhere]

61. Elections are not fair and honest? So if you believe that you must believe that

the election of Joe Biden was not fair and honest. You are siding with the MAGA 2020 election deniers?

[Cirsium]

70. That is silly

No, it does not follow that if one thinks there are serious issues with elections that therefore they are a MAGA supporter who hates Joe Biden. Is that what you are trying to imply? That must be, because I don't think you can seriously believe that one win by a Democrat means that all is well with elections. Following your logic, so long as any Democrat win any election anywhere, then all elections must be fair and honest.

[Meadowoak]

83. None of that will matter, when we are all in concentration camps.

[arthritisR_US]

113. I don't know if you're being facetious but given the past 3 weeks

we, your neighbours who have loved and supported you are afraid for you and other nation’s people and disgusted .

[Chemical Bill]

112. I'm trying to remember...

What were the results from the 2016 recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania?

Oh, right, Republicans fought tooth and nail to keep them from happening. The only one "completed" was a retabulation of the machine counts, not a complete hand recount. The other two were not finished.

And the media recount of Florida in 2000 found Gore won every statewide recount scenario.

It was great that the 2020 recounts all showed Biden winning, but that doesn't mean that we always have fair elections.

[The Hitman]

38. Dont forget that Elon apparently knew the results hours ahead of time

Rogan was bragging about this

https://www.tmz.com/2024/11/12/joe-rogan-says-elon-musk-made-app-knew-donald-trump-won-early/

[Linda ladeewolf]

48. And don't forget

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2025, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)

He is, at this moment in possession of most of the data from the federal government. A normal person would not be doing that either.

Edit to add, the republicans have accused us of cheating since trump, every accusation is an admission, they were doing what they accused us of.

[Self Esteem]

76. Irrelevant. That data is not collected at the federal level.

States run their elections - and in fact, it's generally done at the county-level. It's why the whole idea of 'stolen elections' is nonsensical because one state can have multiple ways of voting depending on the county.

And every state is different. You'd have to be able to hack multiple systems because it's not all universal.

Like, Pennsylvania uses ES&S ExpressVote XL, while Michigan uses both ES&S ExpressVote XL and Hart Voting Systems.

Wisconsin uses multiple systems too, including ES&S ExpressVote XL, Clearcast and Dominion.

[arthritisR_US]

104. Exactly, i.e. projection.

[Self Esteem]

75. This does not prove anything.

Campaigns often know where things are looking and going hours before all votes are cast. Hillary's team knew fairly early they weren't going to win - and Obama's team in 2012 knew they were hitting their needed numbers to win.

I'm sure Harris' campaign knew she was not likely to win hours before too.

[yellow dahlia]

94. There are many pieces of the puzzle.

Or many confessions, if you will.

[BoRaGard]

39. Smarmy little maga wanker (R)

republicons have produced a lot of smug anti-American creeps,

sad

[HarryM]

45. Not to mention the voter suppression

Check out Greg Palast's website: https://www.gregpalast.com/the-voting-trickery-that-elected-trump/
He has been covering this voter suppression for a long time.
He states that over four million votes were removed from the voter rolls wrongly. Nearly every voter was a person of color.
And if your name is the same as someone else in a different state, your chances of having your vote purged was higher.
900% higher chance of your vote not getting counted or your registration being disqualified, if you are not white.

[Trust_Reality]

50. This is potentially kind of encouraging in a way.

It would mean that there are fewer pro MAGA wacko voters than there appeared to me.

[Lunabell]

52. You know what?

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2025, 04:55 PM - Edit history (1)

So many on this site were accused of spreading conspiracy theories, myself being one of the accused! But, I am fairly tech aware and know what can be done with the right knowledge. The good thing is, there's always a footprint. Very difficult to completely cover your tracks.

It's time for law and order computer peeps to examine this shit with a fine toothed comb before it's too late to do anything about it.

[yellow dahlia]

95. I hear you, sister.

[PatrickforB]

55. Can we say life in prison? n/t

[Bluethroughu]

60. Arrest elon and his espinoage crew now!

[Bonx]

63. We seriously need an elecion deniers subforum for this nonsense.

[yellow dahlia]

96. Maybe we need a sub-forum for those who, no matter how much they are presented with data and logic,

refuse to leave their limited plane of understanding,

[tritsofme]

101. Yes...that is exactly what the poster above proposed. A sub-forum for the Trumpy election denial conspiracy theories

who, no matter how much they are presented with data and logic, refuse to leave their limited plane of understanding.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

65. Seeing what they were planning when they "won"

and how ruthlessly they are carrying out those plans, along with seeing evidence that they have thuggish black-hat hackerz on board, I am even more convinced than I've been since election night that they stole it.

Do we really think--as determined & prepared to rape & pillage our government they were--that they were going to let the election itself be conducted fairly? Do we really think they were going to allow Harris to win if there were *any* way they could prevent it?

[yellow dahlia]

97. Right. There are a whole lot of dots being connected here.

BTW, like your moniker.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

102. Thanks. "It was a dark and stormy night..." is the first line of one of my favorite

books from childhood: A Wrinkle in Time. It's also become a joke line because it has been used to often, many times in poor writing!

[yellow dahlia]

107. And a delicious cocktail. Sort of a triple entendre.

Want to hear something sort of eerie. The first time that phrase was used in literature was in a novel during the French Revolution. I know some who have compared the times we are in to the French Revolution.

[liberalla]

66. Wow! Bookmarking fo when I'm on a larger screen!

Thanks!

[Meowmee]

67. Get the proof and charge them etc.

They are not the only ones who have hackers, hack elunatic etc. and them.

[Joinfortmill]

74. Yup.

[FakeNoose]

100. K&R bookmsrked

Thanks - there's a LOT of interesting reading here!

[LaMouffette]

122. Dems in Congress and we, the still-sane American people, need to act NOW to make sure the Midterm elections are not

hacked in the same way! Then, when we take back the House and Senate, we can impeach Mango Mussolini, indict Elon MusK, and undo everything done by Musk's D.O.U.C.H.E.

[lark]

123. Thank you so much for this! It really answers so many questions I've had.

I knew orange fuckface didn't win, that the Democratic votes were severely undercounted but no one had any theories or proof. This is it, but nothing will be done.

[paulkienitz]

125. I followed the links and looked in the Github repo.

And I learned nothing. Somebody said there was some kind of smoking gun in there, but I didn't find any evidence either for or against this having a nefarious side.

[TeddyBear 1]

126. I did not read the article... BUT!!!!!!!!! I have missing ballot story

I am a U.S. citizen living in Canada.. I requested a ballot for president election to be mailed from Michigan to Ontario.. NEVER got it.. so had to cancel the ballot and had a new one sent.. which I got.. and sent back, which got recorded just in time.. The first ballot (which was canceled did finally arrive AFTER the election was over.. I found it strange and told the municipality I voted out of to make a record of my experience of voting by mail..

[TomWilm]

141. The vote counting IS the ONLY part of the US demnocracy, that actually is working fine!

Last edited Tue Feb 11, 2025, 05:38 PM - Edit history (1)

To cling to this BS about the counting being fixed is understandably, because it is such a nice and simple explanation for the loss. The real answer is more complicated, because almost everything else in the US election system is terribly wrong, and getting more and more bad...

For all your rumors and theories about vote counting, please check the website of "Critical Infrastructure Security and Resilience", an official website under the U.S. Department of Homeland Security:
- Election Security Rumor vs. Reality.
They have the answers for all those quite simple concerns - please read this carefully, before wasting more of your own and others time on that failed focus on the vote counting!

When your are ready, then please go into the real fight, against the changes that made it possible for a few billionaires to dominate the media and advertising possibilities. Against gerrymandering and the many other REAL ways, that elections are getting corrupted, like minimizing the numbers of voting booths and polling places, throwing voters of the rolls and so on. Thanks!

UPDATE: US cyber agency puts election security staffers on leave.

[Finally Speaking]

142. I think this is a likely scenario and not a CT

Kick