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Uncle Joe

(65,127 posts)
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:21 PM Feb 2025

We need to come up with new phrase to replace "ethnic cleansing"

it sounds like we're giving an ethnic group of people a hot shower or a warm bath, Calgon take them away.

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Uncle Joe

(65,127 posts)
2. I believe that in many peoples minds, genocide is extermination
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:31 PM
Feb 2025

while ethnic cleansing is stealing their homes, land and evicting them usually through violent means.

Both are evil and unjust, but Genocide at least sounds bad to most people because it resembles homicide, suicide or fratricide.

Ethnic cleansing sounds almost warm and fuzzy.

2naSalit

(102,780 posts)
3. Forced removal?
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:37 PM
Feb 2025

What was the removal of Native Americans from their lands by death and removal called?

Uncle Joe

(65,127 posts)
6. I believe "forced removal" was the phrase they used in the 19th century. From what I can find
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:46 PM
Feb 2025

ethnic cleansing didn't come into use until the 1980s.

(snip)

Although scholars do not agree on which events constitute ethnic cleansing,[7] many instances have occurred throughout history. The term was first used to describe Albanian nationalist treatment of the Kosovo Serbs in the 1980s,[9][10] and entered widespread use during the Yugoslav Wars in the 1990s. Since then, the term has gained widespread acceptance due to journalism.[11] Although research originally focused on deep-rooted animosities as an explanation for ethnic cleansing events, more recent studies depict ethnic cleansing as "a natural extension of the homogenizing tendencies of nation states" or emphasize security concerns and the effects of democratization, portraying ethnic tensions as a contributing factor. Research has also focused on the role of war as a causative or potentiating factor in ethnic cleansing. However, states in a similar strategic situation can have widely varying policies towards minority ethnic groups perceived as a security threat.[12]

Ethnic cleansing has no legal definition under international criminal law, but the methods by which it is carried out are considered crimes against humanity and may also fall under the Genocide Convention.[1][13][14]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_cleansing

Uncle Joe

(65,127 posts)
8. If you Google the legal definition of genocide, you get this
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 02:59 PM
Feb 2025

Genocide is defined as the intentional destruction of a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group. This definition is set out in the Genocide Convention, which was created by the United Nations in 1948.

Acts that constitute genocide

Killing members of the group
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group
Deliberately inflicting conditions of life that will lead to the group's physical destruction
Preventing births within the group
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group

Prosecution of genocide

In the United States, genocide is prohibited by 18 U.S.C. 1091.
The United States has federal jurisdiction if the offense is committed within the United States.
The United States also has federal extraterritorial jurisdiction if the offender is a US national.

Proving genocide

Proving genocide can be difficult because it requires showing a specific intent to destroy a group.
The intent to destroy must be shown to exist in respect to a substantial part of the targeted group.

I agree with your take on this by tying the stealing of land, homes and forcing any ethnic group to leave their homeland via violent means to the actual word genocide with some language alteration to distinguish it from actual extermination.

snot

(11,804 posts)
9. Ethnic dispossession, expulsion, eviction, exile?
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 05:10 PM
Feb 2025

Honestly, none of the available terms sound as traumatic as the reality must be.

Uncle Joe

(65,127 posts)
10. I hear you snot, one just needs to imagine
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 05:16 PM
Feb 2025

that it happens to them, their families, friends, cities, states and/or nation, there would be nothing "clean" about it.

I'm convinced that If humanity doesn't rapidly evolve and start living up to our highest stated ideals while taking everyone into account, we won't make it.



AloeVera

(4,263 posts)
11. "Ethnic cleansing is... a warning sign of genocide to come...
Sun Feb 9, 2025, 10:08 PM
Feb 2025

...Genocide is the last resort of the frustrated ethnic cleanser".

- William Schabas, expert on genocide.

Look at the Schabas quote in the context of Israel's 77-year history of forced expulsions, displacements, dispossessions, and yes, ethnic cleansing. From the Nakba onward, the ethnic cleansing never really stopped, and then came the genocide. To be followed by the more "genteel" method of ethnic cleansing - "voluntary migration".

To rid the land of a people, to make it ethnically "pure" is the goal.

Regarding the genocide definition, it's important to remember that the destruction of the group may be in whole or IN PART. Total extermination of the group is not necessary to meet the threshhold of genocide.

 

Beastly Boy

(13,283 posts)
13. Good idea, considering how badly the term is misunderstood.
Mon Feb 10, 2025, 01:43 AM
Feb 2025

Most people I found commenting on it make no attempt to distinguish between ethnic cleansing and ethnic conflict on one hand, and ethnic cleansing and genocide on the other.

Most importantly, the fact that ethnic cleansing, like ethnic conflict and unlike genocide, is not a legal concept, is being routinely lost in the conversations, especially in relation to Israel.

The reason why it is the case with Israel to the exclusion of most other instances of ethnic cleansing and ethnic conflict is peculiar in itself, but your OP does not appear to be so narrowly focused (my hat is off to you for making this apparent), so I will not go into it any further.

It would certainly be advantageous for what we term ethnic cleansing today to be recognizably self-evident and distinct from either ethnic conflict or genocide in order to disambiguate it from the other two beyond any doubt, but I would rather leave it to the legal scholars to wrestle with this challenge.

PufPuf23

(9,852 posts)
15. Is the Trump plan for Gaza ethnic cleansing?
Mon Feb 10, 2025, 01:55 AM
Feb 2025

Netanyahu is so happy with Trump that he gave Trump a gold-plated pager on the recent visit to the USA.

 

Beastly Boy

(13,283 posts)
16. This question goes beyond the intent of the OP, so I am not biting.
Mon Feb 10, 2025, 02:10 AM
Feb 2025

As I mentioned in my post, I will not derail the discussion that Uncle Joe started, but I would be happy to respond to your question in a separate thread.

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