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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsGetting rid of the penny introduces a new problem: nickels
Trump actually undersold the cost argument — pennies cost more than 3 cents to produce.
But there’s a problem with his plan: Phasing out the penny could result in needing to make more nickels, and the US Treasury Department loses far more money on every nickel than it does on every penny.
“Without the penny, the volume of nickels in circulation would have to rise to fill the gap in small-value transactions. Far from saving money, eliminating the penny shifts and amplifies the financial burden,” said American for Common Cents, a pro-penny group funded primarily by Artazn, the company that has the contract to provide the blanks used to make pennies.
According to the latest annual report from the US Mint, each penny cost 3.7 cents to make, including the 3 cents for production costs, and 0.7 cents per coin for administrative and distribution costs. But each nickel costs 13.8 cents, with 11 cents of production costs and 2.8 cents of administrative and distribution costs. These figures are for the government’s fiscal year, which ends on September.
During that fiscal year, the Mint tried to cut those losses by making far fewer nickels — only 202 million, down 86% from the 1.4 billion nickels it minted in each of the two previous years. That’s also far less than the 3.2 billon pennies it made in 2024 and the 4.1 billion it made in 2023 and 5.4 billion it made in 2022.
https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/10/business/costs-of-pennies-and-nickels/index.html
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bif
(27,000 posts)Knee-jerk reactions without doing any research.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)so we either have to make more nickels at a loss or he's going to declare an end to nickels next. Just round up everything to the nearest dime.
The Madcap
(1,904 posts)Why, the corporations, of course. You will never get to round down.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)rounding up, isn't that something that will actually increase their profits, and cause even more inflation for all consumers?
Naturally, the corporations will consider do it even in rounding it up on their manufacturing costs, which will compound the increase at the selling price which in addition be rounded up.........
Maybe the RepubliCONS should just go ahead and change the country's name from The United States of America to:
The Corporate States of America, or better yet: The Corporate Tyranny of America............
The Corporations are, for all practical purposes, one hair away from that anyway.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)Why would they need a reason like this ?
C Moon
(13,643 posts)These bastards don’t do anything unless it makes them money.
dem4decades
(14,057 posts)
dalton99a
(94,115 posts)
Tommy Carcetti
(44,498 posts)Getting rid of it is an attractive idea to many people on the surface, but actually doing it would cause way more problems than people want to admit.
dweller
(28,410 posts)Time to pull the plug on the nickel …
You see where this is going , don’t you ?
Damn that dime
Quelch the quarter !
Fuk that fittycent
Dump the $1
…….
🫤
✌🏻
thinkingagain
(1,350 posts)A cashless society ( also mentioned in the Bible - anti christ wtc
( crypto?) that takes tons of energy and if we lose a power grid
Lose $ and on and on
No to me that $ paper and coin means something
ancianita
(43,307 posts)What happens to the elderly and poor humans when the consumer economy takes a dive as people find it hard to spend e-money that they had to exchange for pennies on the dollar.
The mining alone has undone generations of green work toward mitigating climate.
https://chainbulletin.com/bitcoin-mining-map/
Nasruddin
(1,258 posts)So all we need is the benjamin!
allegorical oracle
(6,480 posts)
Irish_Dem
(81,266 posts)Just work our way up the coin food chain.
TommyT139
(2,357 posts)...which is not nearly as traceable, and which does not come with a surcharge for its use.
Resist. Pay cash when possible. Remember -- it's legal tender for all debts public and private. If we don't insist on this, it goes away.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)Put your retirement savings into crypto! What could go wrong? 
TommyT139
(2,357 posts)...they are no longer a friend.
Polybius
(21,900 posts)Some people buy them purely for investment. I bought two Bitcoin's for $250 each aa decade or so ago, and never once bought anything with crypto. Not because I'm a bad guy, but because I wanted to invest. Bitcoin is up to around $100k now.
TommyT139
(2,357 posts)...but you are part of the problem, helping to maintain the fiction that Bitcoin (one of many made-up signifiers of...what?) is actually worth something. More concretely, you are supporting a system that has massive negative impacts on the climate.
Each bitcoin transaction generates carbon emissions roughly equivalent to driving a gasoline-powered car between 1,600 and 2,600 kilometres.
The findings reveal that approximately 46 per cent of global Bitcoin mining emissions originate within the United States, producing around 15.1 million metric tons of CO₂ annually.
From Nov. 2024:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2024/11/08/the-large-environmental-consequences-of-bitcoin-mining/
I haven't read anything on another aspect of cryptocurrency -- that it is only available to people who have to surmount other obstacles in order to access and use it, unlike cash and basic banking. A society should not require people to have the latest computers in order to access their own currency.
That's even before crypto became the preferred currency of fascist assholes, who seem likely to steal whatever wealth this country has and turn it into crypto. (Probably not Bitcoin though -- something more trumpy.)
Polybius
(21,900 posts)I stupidly did not go to college and never had a great job (well, once I did but it wasn't for long). Living just beyond paycheck to paycheck did me no good. My biggest regret was not buying $20,000 worth when they were $250. I'd be a multi-millionaire now.
And just so you know it's not dirty money, I'd donate to our causes.
W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)When you factor in most of the "winners" when it comes to cryptocurrency are either insiders or just plain lucky, it's mostly a losing proposition and it's a no-brainer NOT to invest in it. It's no better than gambling, except you have a better chance against the house in gambling than you do being the next crypto millionaire.
Polybius
(21,900 posts)I don't pretend to know any more than the next person about crypto. I just came along at the right time and got extremely lucky. I no longer buy.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)and Trump and other promoters just look at it as an easy way to loot the treasury money and give it to the one percenters......
Trump wants to go to crypto currency, and most likely it will be purchased with all the Gold in Fort Knox. We all know how much Trump likes GOLD...........
It will more than trash the U.S. Economy, because the American dollar is welcomed around the world, even more than any country's currency..............
Abolishinist
(2,956 posts)
PoindexterOglethorpe
(28,493 posts)payment for the drinks. I prefer to pay cash for such things. If they don't want my cash for the drinks, I guess they don't want cash for a tip, so I don't tip there. And normally I'm a good tipper.
TommyT139
(2,357 posts)It got tightened up during covid, since cutting people off who can't get a bank or credit card is discriminatory. Sure they can get cash "gift" cards at CVS, but those charge on the way in and again to refill.
RubyRose
(319 posts)Be replaced. Are 202 million nickles wearing out every year?
Not as much with nickels, but pennies accumulate by the millions on people's dressers & change jars.
Or in the console of the car.
It's not merely wearing out; they get inadvertently taken out of circulation.
If everyone set aside and forgot about 3 pennies & a nickel per year, it would be over a billion pennies & 340 million nickels.
So, this "lost" change is not trivial.
dutch777
(5,068 posts)Or stopped all wars? Is it true Mr. President that even at your desired rate of expelling illegal immigrants it will take at least 16 years and that as long as you haven't sealed the border from new immigrants you are in fact just putting on a show and not solving any problem?
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)They don't care about actual results. They just want the illusion of things happening fast and loose to make America great again.
TommyT139
(2,357 posts)Trump distracts us, occasionally signs whatever they stick in front of his face, and pretends to have all the power because the Supreme Court said he wouldn't get in trouble. Meanwhile Elon is robbing us blind and shutting down whatever used to do some decent (or indecent but necessary) jobs.
iemanja
(57,757 posts)Blues Heron
(8,837 posts)its not like they are single use items.
iemanja
(57,757 posts)W_HAMILTON
(10,333 posts)...to produce than it's worth.
Probably a perfect example of the CEO business mindset not translating to government and yet another reason why government should not be run like a business.
C_U_L8R
(49,384 posts)Nor does he care.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)or he doesn't care or they're as dumb as he is.
surrealAmerican
(11,879 posts)It would have had the buying power of more than a quarter today.
This is not a new problem. Our currency is hopelessly outdated, and has been for the last hundred years. We're already at the point where few people carry any coins at all, leaving most cash as non-durable paper.
It's mostly nostalgia, distrust, and inertia that has caused this problem, and it won't be solved by tinkering around the edges like this. If we were honest about the problem, we'd be realigning our whole currency system.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)while also making it too expensive to make smaller denominations due to metal prices.
ProfessorGAC
(76,703 posts)Even if a loaf of bread cost $12, the sales tax (at 6%) would be 72 cents.
At $6, the tax is 36 cents.
Doubling the price has no impact on lower denomination coins in this case.
A car that cost $45,522, carries a sales tax of $2,731.32. If that car is $2500 more, the 32 cents is still there.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)Meanwhile cash-intensive businesses just adjust their prices so the tax-included end price will be rounded so it's easier to make change. This is common for many farmers markets and street vendors. So corporations would easily do the same thing with their prices.
ProfessorGAC
(76,703 posts)I don't see that happening.
And even if I'm wrong about that, rounding rules would apply, so 50% would be rounded up, 50% rounded down.
I don't see the benefit to them doing that.
Also, eliminating the coin doesn't eliminate the use of cents in digital transactions.
Either way, we don't eliminate hundredths of dollars because prices rise.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)The IRS rounds up or down to the nearest DOLLAR.
ProfessorGAC
(76,703 posts)Look at your W-2 or 1099 forms.
Those are not rounded, so I'm not sure what point you're making.
Polybius
(21,900 posts)I have to look up the year. I remember it being pretty large.
FakeNoose
(41,634 posts)I grew up in Saint Louis Missouri in the 1950s and I remember mills. They were red plastic disks that sort of looked like red dimes, except they were made out of plastic. Each mill was worth 1/10th of a cent. The retailers hated them of course, and it cost more to make, count and package them than they were ever worth.
I can remember my Mom explaining that mills were used when the pricing didn't divide evenly, like if something cost "3 for 10 cents" and you only wanted to buy 1 or 2, then you got mills as change back. Mills really started to disappear by the early 1960's, and I think they were only in use in Missouri. (Not sure.) Maybe because the shortages from WWII were over by then.
surrealAmerican
(11,879 posts)I had no idea.
Apparently some states issued such "coins" (sometimes made of cardboard or plastic) from the 1930's to the 1950's, mostly to cover sales tax.
The federal government never did.
FakeNoose
(41,634 posts)Also I'm pretty sure my Mom said they couldn't be "spent" anywhere except in Missouri.
brush
(61,033 posts)It was of course due to the war and copper was critical and needed for other reasons. Seems a similar thing could be done now by figuring out metal alloys for both pennies and nickels that cost the same or of lessor value than one cent and five cents.
Not complicated. This should've been done long ago. Who's been asleep at the wheel at Treasury?
roamer65
(37,953 posts)Zinc plated steel.
brush
(61,033 posts)Seems a pretty simple solution. Why is this even a problem? Shows the danger of purging government workers. Institutional knowledge is lost.
Wake the fuck up Treasury.
ProfessorGAC
(76,703 posts)My coin collection was stolen when my parent's house was burglarized when I was about 17.
So, I lost everything I had.
lastlib
(28,264 posts)...we could solve TWO problems..........
bucolic_frolic
(55,138 posts)Never heard of lead in them before. But impurities being what they are it's surely possible
brush
(61,033 posts)it could be done today for pennies and nickels.Should've been done.
One thing that's wrong with tump cutting government jobs is the institutional knowledge that's lost.
bucolic_frolic
(55,138 posts)
Native
(7,359 posts)Do we add this to the list of stuff Trump has no authority to do but does it anyway?
gab13by13
(32,321 posts)If something costs $1.01 round it up to 2 dollars.
maxsolomon
(38,727 posts)
Although that's the slippery slope...
dsc
(53,397 posts)then it would cost only 3.7 cents to make.
underpants
(196,495 posts)A penny saved is a penny earned.
Happy Hoosier
(9,535 posts)Mosby
(19,491 posts)Just round up or down to the nearest nickle.
Because I'm into coins I would like to see a $5 and maybe $20 coin like in the old days.
Bring back the double eagles.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_eagle
Maybe with a bit of silver. 😀
maxsolomon
(38,727 posts)Ever. Rounding up they'd love.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)Rounded up or down. Last thing I needed was to deal with pennies.
maxsolomon
(38,727 posts)Not everyone's a mensch.
Mosby
(19,491 posts)That was nice.
dweller
(28,410 posts)Saying they had a Bitcoin ATM inside
No I didn’t stop to go inside and look at it
✌🏻
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,867 posts)Even if Trump's position on pennies has merit, what matters most is his willingness to make unilateral policy declarations outside of his authority.
2/ “Trump’s pennies order adds to list of legally dubious power grabs
— @GottaLaff (@gottalaff.bsky.social) 2025-02-10T14:54:15.919Z
Even if Trump's position on pennies has merit, what matters most is his willingness to make unilateral policy declarations outside of his authority.â€
www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddo...
Link to tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trumps-pennies-order-adds-list-legally-dubious-power-grabs-rcna191445
When Donald Trump swore an oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States,” perhaps he brushed past this detail. The Associated Press reported:
President Donald Trump says he has directed the Treasury Department to stop minting new pennies, citing the rising cost of producing the one-cent coin. ... Trump had not discussed his desire to eliminate the penny during his campaign. But Elon Musk’s so-called Department of Government Efficiency raised the prospect in a post on X last month highlighting the penny’s cost.
As the Republican left New Orleans after watching the first half of the Super Bowl, he wrote to his social media platform, “For far too long the United States has minted pennies which literally cost us more than 2 cents. This is so wasteful! I have instructed my Secretary of the US Treasury to stop producing new pennies. Let’s rip the waste out of our great nations [sic] budget, even if it’s a penny at a time.”......
But whether one supports or opposes sticking with the penny is separate from the question of governmental power. Penny critics have spent recent years pressing lawmakers on this for the most obvious of reasons: It’s up to Congress to make decisions about U.S. currencies.
Even if Trump’s underlying position has merit — and it very well might — what arguably matters most in a situation like this isn’t about pennies, as much as it’s about the president unilaterally making a policy declaration outside of his authority.
In other words, presidential power-grabs matter, even if they’re in pursuit of worthwhile policy goals.
A New York magazine report added, “Like so many other things Trump has said or tried to do since retaking office, it’s not clear if he can legally [order the Treasury to stop making pennies]. It would probably require an act of Congress to fully discontinue the coin, since Congress dictates America’s currency specifications. But as with so many other things, Trump may just try to do it anyway.”
Deep State Witch
(12,716 posts)By the Philadelphia Mint. You can get pennies from the Denver and San Francisco Mints, but the majority on the East Coast are made in Philadelphia.
Typical FELON47 - take some idea that is generally popular and do an executive order on it without thinking through the consequences. No wonder this asshole bankrupted casinos.
GreenWave
(12,641 posts)
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)
bucolic_frolic
(55,138 posts)There's not enough around?
Illegal I think, but is there a scrap market going on?
Brother Buzz
(39,899 posts)“Do you know what the country needs today? A seven-cent nickel. . . . If it works out, next year we could have an eight-cent nickel . . . You could go back to the newsstand, buy a three-cent newspaper and get the same nickel back again. One nickel carefully used would last a family a lifetime.” - Groucho Marx
quakerboy
(14,868 posts)Thsts losing 8.8 cents per $.05 on nickel production
And for .05 in pennies, 14 cents lost. If we average it at 2.5 pennies per transaction replaced by nickels, it's pretty close, 7 cents vs 8.8
Then.. how long does a nickel last in use vs a penny. Durability.
Also pennies out would mean an extra slot available in most tills, which could be used to encourage either half dollars or dollar coins into regular circulation, which would probably result in some additional savings.
Red Mountain
(2,343 posts)where the guy was making huge amounts of money skimming a small fraction of a penny per transaction in the banking transfer world?
Somehow I see Trump/Leon working that angle.
JT45242
(4,043 posts)You can have if change is made appropriately in a transaction currently...
4 pennies after that you would need a nickel
1 nickel. After that it would be a dime
2 dimes after that it would be a quarter
3 quarters after that would be a dollar
The most coins in a properly counted transaction is 94 cents...3 quarters 1 dime 1 nickel and 4 pennies (99 cents is the same total number of coins but requires no nickels)
In the no penny world this rounds to 95 cents...
3 quarters and 2 dimes
There is never a transaction though would need extra nickels.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)so instead of one penny back, they would give one nickel back.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)Sales tax in my state is 6%
Food items here are untaxed, but something else selling for 99 cents actually costs $1.05 after tax
If not taxed, if I buy 5 items at 0.99 each, the total is $4.95. If taxed, it would be $5.25. No pennies needed.
Gas is usually sold at prices like $2.99.9. No one pumps exactly 1 gallon and expects 1/10th of a cent back in change.
IronLionZion
(51,268 posts)if they don't have pennies, they can't give you the correct change. Or they'll say you have to use card/electronic payment for exact amounts involving pennies.
MichMan
(17,151 posts)Unless states are going to change sales taxes to increments of 5
muriel_volestrangler
(106,211 posts)If that's "phasing it out", it's a damn slow way to do it. Coins last decades. The existing ones are still in circulation; use of cash is declining, with electronic payment taking over. Why is CNN predicting there will be a shortage? The only reasonable prediction for 20 years from now is "fewer pennies will be needed".
" American for Common Cents, a pro-penny group funded primarily by Artazn, the company that has the contract to provide the blanks used to make pennies" - are they really worth listening to?
genxlib
(6,136 posts)Considering how long pennies last and the declining use of them, the existing supply in circulation should last plenty long enough to make them fade into obscurity.
There should be a little outrage here that he thinks he gets to decide all by himself but the actual policy ranks pretty low compared to the rest of the insanity.
muriel_volestrangler
(106,211 posts)The Nederlandsche Bank calculated it would save $36 million a year by not using the smaller coins. Other countries such as Germany favoured retaining the coins due to retailers' desire for €1.99 prices, which appear more attractive to the consumer than €2.00 (psychological pricing).[5] According to a 2021 Eurobarometer survey of citizens across the Eurozone, 67% of respondents were in favor of the removal of the 1 and 2 cent coins and rounding of prices; with over 75% in Finland, Ireland, Italy and Slovakia. All countries in the eurozone showed a plurality of people in favor of the abolishment.[3]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1_euro_cent_coin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coins_of_the_Swiss_franc
For this "we'll need more nickels" argument to work, doesn't it need a significant amount of transactions currently being paid with more than 5 pennies each time? Who does that?
standingtall
(3,148 posts)A tax built into the price of the product. The U.S. has sales tax which is paid after going to the counter with the item. Which why comparing the U.S. to any European Country doesn't work. What happens to States that have a 6 or 7 cent sales tax? The either have to eliminate sales taxes not likely, lower it to a nickel which is less likely or raise it to a dime which is most likely.
Abolishinist
(2,956 posts)Make all pennies worth $.05.
I mean, am I the next Eloon, or what!