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Tommy Carcetti

(44,587 posts)
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 11:00 AM Feb 2025

I think some people are misinterpreting the Trump-Musk dynamic.

People seem to want to paint Trump as some sort of unwilling puppet of Musk, insisting that Musk is the true President in fact, calling him "President Musk," etc.

And that's a great way to troll Trump and get under his skin. But it's not really accurate, IMHO.

The paradoxical thing about Trump is that he absolutely loves power and being in charge, but he doesn't like being President.

He loves the adulation, the entourage, the idea that he can rename places at the blink of an eye or threaten to take over whatever sovereign land or throw the economic markets into an instant frenzy over tariff threats, and then instantly calm them like he's Jesus Christ by pulling back. It feeds his ego--which is insatiable, but still needs to be constantly fed.

He doesn't like being President not necessarily because he's lazy or stupid (although a very good argument could be made for him being both of those things), but rather because of the constraints put on the Presidency. The constitutional checks and balances from the other two branches. The oversights. The limits.

And most importantly of all, the President's duties towards the citizens. Trump has zero interest in helping the people, serving the people, protecting the people. He's 100% interested in helping only one person, and that's himself. And he has no interest at all in a government that has responsibility towards its own citizens.

So he's just as happy to get rid of that role of government. He wishes to govern by fiat and personal will, not a Constitutional mandate. He wants to be Emperor Trump, not President Trump.

Enter Elon Musk.

Musk gladly takes on the role of Trump's hatchet man, to destroy everything good that the government does for its citizens, so that all is left is a hollow shell that serves only to glorify him.

Trump himself lacks the wits and energy to do all this himself, so he basically outsourced it all to Musk, a man who happily feeds on chaos. And destroying government--like destroying Twitter--creates lots and lots and lots of chaos.

If this were Star Wars, think of Elon Musk as Grand Moff Tarkin, the ruthless commander of the Death Star who goes from planet to planet destroying everything in sight.

Meanwhile, Trump is Palpatine, with a little Jabba the Hutt mixed in.

No, actually a lot of Jabba the Hutt mixed in, if you know what I mean.

For now, it's a symbiotic relationship between Trump and Musk.

Could it turn sour? Will they turn on each other?

Knowing their egos and volatile personalities, most likely it will. I don't think we've reached that stage yet.

Right now, they're still very much a dangerous dyad working in concert with one another. A two-headed monster.

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I think some people are misinterpreting the Trump-Musk dynamic. (Original Post) Tommy Carcetti Feb 2025 OP
John Kasich claims Trump approached him with a deal during the 2016 election. Midnight Writer Feb 2025 #1
Double edged sword scenario here though - eventually the pissed at Musk people will turn on Trump. Native Feb 2025 #14
Here is the tell about who is in charge. gab13by13 Feb 2025 #2
Both are directed by Putin DENVERPOPS Feb 2025 #6
That is really what I believe since Russia was financier of most of Musks projects ( and Trumps) LiberalArkie Feb 2025 #10
Which of Musks projects were financed by Russia? EX500rider Feb 2025 #11
Who knows really.. Just been speculated for years. Probably by the same conspiracy theorists who LiberalArkie Feb 2025 #24
Can the international police get Musty? Dem4life1234 Feb 2025 #25
That's been my theory since the beginning. It is the only thing that has ever made sense to me. Native Feb 2025 #15
Neither is malaise Feb 2025 #20
Add to that....Trump's paycheck and bonus depends on doing what Musk/Putin order mtngirl47 Feb 2025 #7
musk got himself elected president 4catsmom Feb 2025 #17
Musk couldn't be elected... Dulcinea Feb 2025 #26
On a related note... lonely bird Feb 2025 #3
I hate seeing the headlines. Musk is doing XYZ. mzmolly Feb 2025 #4
Reminds me of the GW/Cheney partnership, robbob Feb 2025 #5
The same exact thing DENVERPOPS Feb 2025 #9
The Problem Is Nasruddin Feb 2025 #8
The two ARE the same problem. calimary Feb 2025 #21
I've also heard the comparison of Trump as Emperor Palpatine and Musk as Darth Vader LymphocyteLover Feb 2025 #12
Pretty much ... but add in Trump's current descent into dementia and TBF Feb 2025 #13
"A two headed monster." Mr. Evil Feb 2025 #16
I've been saying it before and I'll say it again: Initech Feb 2025 #18
I believe you're about 99% correct. The one thing that I'd add is that I believe TSF is using Musk to be the fall guy. Texin Feb 2025 #19
No one can know for sure Meowmee Feb 2025 #22
Musk also has the 25th amendment in his back pocket. hay rick Feb 2025 #23
Trump absolutely will get 25th amendmented if he crosses Elon. Initech Feb 2025 #29
Would this be Vance? Eko Feb 2025 #27
Very true. My take is it's about money & expertise Joinfortmill Feb 2025 #28
All I know is for a toddler usedtobedemgurl Feb 2025 #30

Midnight Writer

(25,758 posts)
1. John Kasich claims Trump approached him with a deal during the 2016 election.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 11:16 AM
Feb 2025

Kasich and Trump were vying against each other for the Republican Presidential nomination.

Trump offered to let Kasich run as his Vice President. In that role, Kasich would be in charge of the day-to-day workings and policies of the Executive Branch, while Donald would be the ceremonial figurehead, like the King.

In other words, Kasich would do all the work and Trump would get all the adoration and credit.

Trump will be OK with Musk as long as Musk is pissing people off. Trump will only feel threatened by Musk if Musk starts getting a lot of adoration and accolades. That is not likely to happen because Musk can't stop being an asshole.

Native

(7,389 posts)
14. Double edged sword scenario here though - eventually the pissed at Musk people will turn on Trump.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:22 PM
Feb 2025

gab13by13

(32,789 posts)
2. Here is the tell about who is in charge.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 11:42 AM
Feb 2025

When Trump and Musk go head to head, disagree on an issue, Musk is going to prevail every time.

Musk is running the show, Trump signs pieces of paper given to him.

Did Trump kick Musk out of the West Wing?

Musk works for Putin, Trump works for Musk. Trump is figure head president.

Saying President Musk gets under Trump's skin is right, because he knows it's true.

Also, an added caveat, Musk got Trump elected president.

LiberalArkie

(19,919 posts)
10. That is really what I believe since Russia was financier of most of Musks projects ( and Trumps)
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:43 PM
Feb 2025

But Trumps were just volatile real estate dealings. Now Musks are different. Musk gets nations to use his products and then at his whim turns them off. I have no problem believing that when Musk allowed Ukraine to use StarLInk that he did not have a back door and the data was sent to Russia.

EX500rider

(12,777 posts)
11. Which of Musks projects were financed by Russia?
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:56 PM
Feb 2025

I don't think they had anything to do with PayPal or Tesla and they certainly didn't want to help SpaceX steal all their launch business

LiberalArkie

(19,919 posts)
24. Who knows really.. Just been speculated for years. Probably by the same conspiracy theorists who
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 02:17 PM
Feb 2025

accused Trump of various things. People who have not been sent to jail couldn't have really been guilty of anything, could they. Just simple fines don't mean anyone is a bad person.

There is Twitter. https://cybernews.com/news/elon-musk-twitter-acquisition-russia-investment/

And SpaceX. https://finance.yahoo.com/news/russian-oligarch-held-stake-musks-135342238.html

In general. https://apnews.com/article/musk-putin-x-trump-tesla-election-russia-9cecb7cb0f23ccce49336771280ae179

Native

(7,389 posts)
15. That's been my theory since the beginning. It is the only thing that has ever made sense to me.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:23 PM
Feb 2025

mtngirl47

(1,262 posts)
7. Add to that....Trump's paycheck and bonus depends on doing what Musk/Putin order
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:29 PM
Feb 2025

He has fulfilled his life-long dream to be in the room with the richest people in the world.

He has been given carte blanche by the supremes to do whatever he wants.

He will get to take his retribution and vengeance with no recourse.

We will have to fight and claw our way back to a semblance of the country he fucking wanted to make great again.

And he will hopefully be dead.

lonely bird

(3,039 posts)
3. On a related note...
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:10 PM
Feb 2025

Saw something the other day that said Trump is a solipsist meaning extremely self-centered. The point is insulting him doesn’t really phase him. This is because any attention, good or bad, is attention on him. I think that the same applies to Musk.

They are psychologically damaged in some manner.

As for Musk being the hatchet man? Well, he isn’t subject to the 25th amendment. Trump is. Imo, Trump needs to keeps his enemies or potential enemies under scrutiny. Of course, since he loves chaos that is probably what he is doing anyway.

The bottom line is the country and world will suffer and are suffering.

mzmolly

(52,861 posts)
4. I hate seeing the headlines. Musk is doing XYZ.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:13 PM
Feb 2025

It’s Trump. He hired Musk. He’s the President. He’s responsible. Period PERIOD.

robbob

(3,750 posts)
5. Reminds me of the GW/Cheney partnership,
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:26 PM
Feb 2025

where GW just basically handed over 80% of the presidential duties to his running mate…

DENVERPOPS

(13,003 posts)
9. The same exact thing
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:40 PM
Feb 2025

as HWBush, running EVERYTHING under Reagan.....

I would love it, if instead of Trump this or that, or Musk this or that, we edited the word "Trump" and "Musk" out of everything here on DU and instead substituted the word REPUBLICANS........

In all reality, if the REPUBLICONs in the Senate hadn't backed everything Trump, Trump wouldn't have lasted a week into his first term.

That is a fact that seems to be ignored.................

Don't feed into either one of their egos, by naming them. They just eat it up when we do it...............Blame the TRUE degenerates

We should also do the same with anyone within the Trump CABAL...........................

LymphocyteLover

(10,163 posts)
12. I've also heard the comparison of Trump as Emperor Palpatine and Musk as Darth Vader
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 12:58 PM
Feb 2025

which might resonant more with most people

TBF

(37,237 posts)
13. Pretty much ... but add in Trump's current descent into dementia and
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:02 PM
Feb 2025

Elon's insatiable greed and I'd throw a couple more heads on that monster. It's kind of terrifying.

Mr. Evil

(3,472 posts)
16. "A two headed monster."
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:28 PM
Feb 2025

It will work until there is only one steak in front of them and both want to eat it at the same time. They'll end up eating each other's face.

Initech

(109,274 posts)
18. I've been saying it before and I'll say it again:
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:40 PM
Feb 2025

Trump is just a figurehead for authoritarians to gain and keep power. He's the face of their movement. While we're distracted by his vile and bullshit, they're getting away with some truly evil shit behind the scenes that we don't know about.

Texin

(2,869 posts)
19. I believe you're about 99% correct. The one thing that I'd add is that I believe TSF is using Musk to be the fall guy.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 01:48 PM
Feb 2025

TSF was given unlimited and unchecked power by the five Supremes with no legal liability so long as he was/is exercising his presidential authority. By installing the apartheid-Hitler-loving South African so-called American citizen with no *official* office or *official department*, TSF can claim plausible deniability for Musk's actions. I think Ramaswamy saw the handwriting on the wall and got the hell out of Dodge while the getting was good. He could keep his hands clean (or as clean as they are at any given time) and not risk legal jeopardy in future. Musk OTOH is acting like Musk has always acted: like a narcissistic authoritarian know it all range within the autistic spectrum that he occupies.

Meowmee

(9,212 posts)
22. No one can know for sure
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 02:08 PM
Feb 2025

But imo P is directing things and others. M talks to P a lot so it is said. Hopefully they will do each other in somehow.

hay rick

(9,725 posts)
23. Musk also has the 25th amendment in his back pocket.
Tue Feb 11, 2025, 02:15 PM
Feb 2025

Last edited Tue Feb 11, 2025, 10:28 PM - Edit history (1)

Trump has clearly been unfit for a long time and it gets visibly worse every day. It's obvious to all, including those who voted for him. He is useful to tech, oil, and finance as long as he is able to demolish structures that restrain their activities, power, and profits. If he establishes the de facto right to ignore judicial rulings and secures another large tax cut he will have very little remaining value to the oligarchs while his liabilities increase exponentially.

When it comes time to choose between Trump and Musk/Vance/Thiel/Murdoch/billionaires, the calculation could be easy. Trump is a banana peel away from his drooling on his tie years. He has no successor. Musk, Vance, and others will be around for decades. Their wealth and power will only increase with the looting they are in the process of arranging. They can finance or flush any politicians that want to sit on the fence.

Almost all Trump voters know that Trump is clownishly unfit- they just can't talk about it. They don't want to learn about issues- they just want to watch the spite show. That can be choreographed by others.

Initech

(109,274 posts)
29. Trump absolutely will get 25th amendmented if he crosses Elon.
Thu Feb 13, 2025, 12:59 PM
Feb 2025

Then we have Dictator Vance. That's why he was chosen.

Joinfortmill

(21,679 posts)
28. Very true. My take is it's about money & expertise
Wed Feb 12, 2025, 08:49 AM
Feb 2025

1. The 125m Musk gave him
2. Technical expertise Musk has to implement the planned coup

usedtobedemgurl

(2,071 posts)
30. All I know is for a toddler
Thu Feb 13, 2025, 01:12 PM
Feb 2025

To tell him he us NOT president and to go away, the toddler had to hear it somewhere. Maybe from dear old dad, Eloon? Maybe the orange menace believes he is president, it I seriously doubt he is. The ego on that man fills up a room. Can you see him allowing anyone, but especially a four year old, tell him to shut up and go away, he is not president? Something is going on there, especially when the toddler's dad is go ing a press conference in the Oval office. Spoon was flexing his muscles. Donnie sat quietly. Didn't even flinch when told he was not the president. I would believe a toddler over that lying sack of shit, any day!

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