After tanking a U.S. election, what more damage could pro-Gaza/Hamas people possibly want to commit?

[PeaceWave]

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2025, 03:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Seriously, they got what they wanted. In a country that permitted them free speech, for months they irresponsibly devoted their breath to screaming derogatory names for Joe and Kamala, labeling them "Genocide Joe" and "Killer Kamala." Their "Uncommitted" movement led to just that - lots of Democrats and Independents not bothering to vote.

If their point was to shoot themselves in the foot, drag down American voters who had once been their allies and condemn the residents of Gaza to displaced refugee status, then they "succeeded" in spades - Since handing a U.S. election over to Trump is directly and causally related to the permanent end of Gaza as any possible part of a future Palestinian independent state.

That's right. THEY did that. Not Joe. Not Kamala. Not loyal Democratic voters. Not Netanyahu. Not the 1,200+ Israelis their "Freedom Fighters" killed on 10/7/23 or the 251 Israelis their "heroes" kidnapped on that same now infamous date. That was all on THEM. So, what is this these people are doing now - A "victory" lap?

Or, is this simply a complete lack of self-awareness, cognitive dissonance on display, a creeping sense of guilt at odds with a narcissistic belief that they can do no wrong? At the end of the day, I might feel empathy for them - if not for the fact that their misguided deeds have been so hypocritical and so hurtful to those they claim to care for.

Has it occurred to these people that maybe, just maybe, the Palestinian people (as opposed to the terrorists of Hamas and those who support that terrorist entity) NEVER wanted their "help" - since all their "help" brought was even more harm? Maybe they share more in common with Donald Trump than they realize - the need to "take care of" other people - "whether those people like it or not."

[LonePirate]

1. Pick something on the MAGA agenda and they probably want it. They have been closet Trump supporters all along.

[brush]

51. So many idiots in that bunch. Bet some of them were among the batch of deportees sent to Guantanamo and Guatemala.

Too bad, so sad.

[Historic NY]

2. TRump is setting his eyes on them

soon colleges will have to give up their non-citizen student to ice. He said so

https://www.npr.org/2025/02/06/nx-s1-5281179/trump-executive-order-aims-to-deport-international-students-who-have-protested-israel]

So long morons

[LeftInTX]

7. Only if they get in trouble protesting. (Expellable type offenses)

He's holding the universities accountable. Which is pretty much "weak sauce"....

Universities have been very reluctant to revoke students visas for obvious reasons and they downplay any trouble. His EO pretty much holds the universities accountable and if they get caught they could lose federal funding.....Most of the students try to avoid activities that could get them expelled. However, we did see some crazy activities on campuses last year that went unpunished.

[sheshe2]

3. Great post.

Your last paragraph sums it up perfectly.

[brush]

4. Not a fan at all of the Arab anti-Biden/Harris protest voters...

but I would say they were pro-Gazan rather than pro-Hamas' actions.

I am also pro-Gazan, anti-Hamas, and anti-warmonger Netayahu.

[Beastly Boy]

5. You did vote for Kamala, didn't you?

Therein lies the difference. "They" may not have been as pro-Gazan and anti-Hamas as you give them credit for.

[brush]

8. Of course I voted for Harris. As for protest voters being for Hamas' actions...

rather than pro-Gazan, I don't think the majority were in favor of Hamas' actions.

And IMO, warmonger Netanyahu's were ultimately just as obscene.

[Beastly Boy]

9. And they did not.

Whatever intentions you may imbue in them, there is an obvious, undeniable and inescapable difference between you and them. And no amount of Netanyahu mentions will change this.

[brush]

10. And you have insight into their minds?

Pls, BB, make better sense than that.

[Beastly Boy]

11. No, Brush, I have acces to the facts.

So do you. Can't you make better sense of the facts without my assistance?

[brush]

12. Pls post your facts as to how their minds work.

[Beastly Boy]

14. Now you are just being silly.

How their minds work has nothing to do with the facts in your possession. Just stop.

[brush]

16. Heehee. You're the one who said you had the facts.

[Beastly Boy]

17. I did. I also said that the facts have nothing to do with how their minds work.

It is you who is trying to make a hilariously nonsensical pretzel by trying to tie the two together.

Looking forward to better times for a more meaningful chat. Buh-bye.

[brush]

20. BB, I enjoy the occasional interplays we have with each other. In fact...

I think we could be friends in real life. Where we differ is that, and I've stated it often, that I want the best outcome for both sides in the Gazan war.

You however seem to have no empathy at all for all the suffering and death the Palestinian have endured in Gaza and the West Bank. Seems you're all Netanyahu all the time, 24/7.

He's a warmonger and right now I bet he's trying to figure out how scuttle the ceasefire and continue the war and expel the Gazans completely from Gaza.

[Arazi]

33. Pretty sure Hamas did that trying to sub a random body for Shiri Bibas

[brush]

39. No words. Who knows what to believe.

[Arazi]

42. Maybe believe the forensic scientists?

If Hamas is going to sub rando bodies as Israeli hostages, I promise you the ceasefire deal is off.

Totally and completely off and it will be entirely Hamas’ fault.

I’m actually surprised Israel has exercised restraint tbh

[brush]

43. Hamas wants it off. Netanyahu wants it off. I believe you, it's off.

75 more years of war?

[Arazi]

45. Probably

But let there be no doubt (this time), who fucked the ceasefire up

[MarineCombatEngineer]

22. Don't need insight into their minds,

they made it crystal clear what they were all about and that was defeating VP Harris and returning that criminal to power, so as far as I'm concerned, they are partly responsible for this wrecking ball of an Admin.

[brush]

24. I can't disagree that they voted against Harris, stupidly, and are partly responsible for...

for the sick orange turd being back in the WH.

But that's not exactly what BB and I were discussing.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

25. Fair enough,

I was just throwing my 2 cents worth in of what I think of those idiots that thought that voting for Been A Dick Donald would go their way, well, they've now reaped what they help sow and I hope they're proud of themselves for "showing the Democrats".
Anyways, that's my rant for the day and I wish you a great Friday and weekend.

[brush]

50. And some of them may be in batch of deportees sent to Guantanamo and Guatemala.

Some American citizens. Too bad, so sad.

[Jit423]

31. Lots of former Sanders voters that I know have told me they didn't vote for Hillary and they didn't vote for Kamala.

What does that make them?

[Beastly Boy]

35. Spoiled narrow-minded fools? Just a guess.

Useful idiots? I wouldn't be violating DU's terms of use by calling them that. There are plenty of Sanders supporters who did vote for Kamala.

[Vogon_Glory]

55. What does that make them? Naifs and fools, that's what

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2025, 09:50 AM - Edit history (1)

The idealist progressives who sat out this election because they didn’t think Joe or Kamala wasn’t pure or idealistic enough delivered the USA into the hands of a ruthless, wanna-be dictator who has unleashed waves of spending cuts to sink the poor and helpless further into poverty, misery, and death. Thousands, if not tens of thousands, of people are going to sicken and DIE because of their obtuse failure of imagination, their failure to imagine what is happening now and what I fear has yet to come. IMO, these idealists have almost as much responsibility for what is happening as the most vicious-minded MAGA bigots.

These naïfs can polish their tin haloes if they wish, but they shouldn’t expect me to respect their decision.

[newdeal2]

18. I'm not sure I agree

There were definitely pro-Hamas chants, flags, and similar rhetoric from at least some, if not many, protestors.

Which is why I never understood why these groups never applied any pressure to Hamas at all if their goal was only about saving lives.

[brush]

23. "...from at least some..." That's the operative phrase. IMO most are/were pro-Gazan...

not pro-Hamas..wanting the killing and violence to end.

[Jit423]

30. I am with you. I too am pro Gazan and anti-Hamas, anti-Netanyahu, but also anti-Trump, anti-Elon and anti-Putin.

Protesting is a part of freedom of speech now as well as it was considered when the KKK were marching and calling for hanging blacks.

[brush]

34. Well stated. We are on the same page.

[SunSeeker]

6. K & R

[orangecrush]

13. Bye

[AloeVera]

60. Succint and to the point.

I could learn from you!

[617Blue]

15. They never gave a crap about Gaza

Consider them to be a permanent part of the GOP machine. Would love to see the finances of the people leading this fakery.

[Johnny2X2X]

21. It was a mix of people

I think the Right Wing funded a lot of it, but that some earnest people were duped too. And sure, there were a handful of actual Hamas supporters, but those seemed to be few and far between to me.

I am here in Michigan, this issue 100% flipped the state. In Dearborn and Hamtramack alone the number of voters who flipped from Biden in 2020 to Trump in 2024 easily flipped the entire state. Biden won those places by 85-90 points in 2020 and Harris lost them in 2024.

I still don't think people understand how powerful propaganda is, and how much more powerful it has become because of social media and now AI. They literally got hundreds of thousands of Muslims to vote for the Muslim ban guy.

[claudette]

28. Including

white men who didn’t want a woman president

[Johnny2X2X]

29. Sure

But the topic is the Gaza protesters and I don't think many of them were driven by mysogony alone.

And while we're on the subject, know that the leaders of the 'Free Gaza" movement are mostly unrepentent. Rashida Tlaib, Congressowman from Dearborn, is basically still saying, "Yes, both sides of the aisle are wrong on gaza, blah blah blah." She alone could have led and saved Gaza by helping get the leader of the only party who was trying to save Gaza elected. No one could have made as big a difference as Rashida, if she had been out in front adamently telling her constuents that, "Harris is our only hope, without Harris winning, Trump will completely level Gaza and it will cease to exist." Had Tlaib helped harris win, Gaza would have a future.

[claudette]

32. I know but

you can’t blame Gaza supporters alone for our loss. If white men had not been misogynistic they would have outnumbered the Gaza supporters.

And a Gaza supporter is NOT a Hamas supporter period. Killing innocents is murder no matter WHO does it. Even the IDF

[Johnny2X2X]

36. Sure, there were other groups

But those groups mostly voted for Trump in 2020 too.

In 2024, at least here in Michigan, Muslims flipping from Biden in 2020 to Trump in 2024 flipped the state. Biden got over 90% of the vote in Dearborn in 2020, Trump won Dearborn in 2024, Tlaib's home district.

I think there were a hand full of Free Gaza protesters that did in fact praise Hamas and they made a lot of noise doing so, but they did not represent the vast majority of the people protesting for Gaza. What sucks is that it was a righteous movement to me, Gaza needs to be free from both Israel opppression and bombs, and Hamas's own tyranny and oppression. But it quickly turned to "Genocide Joe" and then, "Kamala the Killer." Nobody in this country worked harder to save Gaza than Joe Biden and Kamala Harris did, N-O-B-O-D-Y!!! And Gaza is now lost, there is no saving it now.

I believe people are easily lead astray, especially within impassioned movements. What happened to Gaza after the horrific and evil Hamas terror attack was an insane over reaction and represents clear war crimes.

And the Free Gaza movement still exists, the funding was just turned off fro most of it because the funding was coming from Trump supporting groups. the Free Gaza movement was used and manipulated to hurt Kamala's campaign.

[PeaceWave]

49. Some of those who were bamboozled are only now realizing what they did.

[uponit7771]

61. There was no doubt some astro turf mixed in

[Aristus]

19. All-pervasive right-wing hate media.

Don't think

Just react.

Get angry.

Vote the way we tell you to.

I still can't believe that Muslims voted for Donald "Muslim Ban" Trump. But there it is again: Don't think; just react.

[malaise]

26. Blame the victims

Nice

[Beastly Boy]

37. They voted for Trump. Trump won. I am the victim of their vote. They are the perpetrators. I am not blaming myself.

[PeaceWave]

47. Their NON votes also contributed to Trump winning.

[Vogon_Glory]

52. Sorry, but the people who chose to vote for Donald John

chose to vote for Donald John, whether it was for spite or good intentions. Either way they’re going to get even screwed over than they are now.

[AloeVera]

56. Easy to do when you don't think of them as victims and never did.

Or when FAFO advances your narrative.

[Beastly Boy]

57. It is rather unusual to think of perpetrators as victims. Most people can't get themselves to engage in such folly.

Last edited Sat Feb 22, 2025, 01:37 PM - Edit history (2)

And when the perpetrators find themselves paying for their own acts of stupidity, FAFO is a rather appropriate narrative to advance.

[claudette]

27. FYI

Pro Gaza (meaning innocent Palestinians) does NOT equal Pro Hamas no matter how many times you say it

[Beastly Boy]

38. I wouldn't include Trump voters in the ranks of innocent Palestinians. They knew what Trump stands for, and it wasn't

pro-Gaza.

[enid602]

40. Netanyahu

I think Netanyahu tanked the US election. But his victory is pyrrhic, given the quality of his new ally.

[PeterIsMyBrother]

41. I believe the pro Gaza and Hamas people want

to deport all gardeners named Carlos

[Lulu KC]

44. ?

[maxsolomon]

46. You included a picture of WOL protestors in your rant.

WOL are an Arab/Muslim group. They are unapologetically anti-Zionist, pro-Palestinian and pro-violent resistance to Israel's slow colonization of the West Bank. They're not the same as the "young idealist" Campus Occupiers, or "old idealist" Jewish Voices for Peace.

The Muslim vote was probably instrumental in Harris losing Michigan, but in Swing States beyond that? Not sure. Non-Muslim swing-voter Americans are fully dumb enough to have voted for MFer on whatever stupid RW propaganda BS stuck in their pea brains: 'Bortion, eggs, woke...

[Eko]

48. There is a reason you had to put a "/" in between Gaza/Hamas in the title.

Doing so seems to me that even you accept that there is a difference between the two.There are plenty of us here that are pro-gaza and not pro-hamas. I am even pro-Israeli people but not pro-Israeli government and I voted for Kamala. By linking the two together and then saying they got what wanted and even deserved is to divide us. I did my part and voted for Kamala as did many here, why are you doing this? Imagine if I blamed and entire people for the actions of a government. Imagine if I blamed all Israeli people for what the Israeli government is doing, what would you call that? You would call that racist and even antisemitic and rightly so.

[Oopsie Daisy]

54. Think of it as an "and-or" divider.

>> By linking the two together and then saying they got what wanted and even deserved is to divide us.
I don't see it that way. But then, I'm less hypersensitive and not always on the lookout for something to be outraged about. In any case, the word order and punctuation reads to me as something being open-ended enough and ambiguous enough that it leaves room for individual interpretation from the reader. Since there are many different shades and degrees of support for Gaza/Hamas the writer's choice of words and punctuation reflects that simple fact. As a result, readers are free to choose an interpretation that applies... or they are equally free to choose one that doesn't apply... and then use that as a basis for outrage and to question the motives of others.

[Irish_Dem]

53. They did the job they were paid to do.

Or manipulated to do.

[AloeVera]

58. Maybe the problem was the policy and not the voters?

Just throwing it out there.

Millions stayed home or cast ballots for other parties. About a third of these voters said Gaza was the number one reason.

It would appear the Democrats' unconditional, "iron-clad" support of Israel and the ensuing loss of Palestinian lives was not popular among a large swath of the electorate.

But this was known. Polls showed Americans by a majority - across parties - wanted a ceasefire and wanted the arms and funding to Israel to stop.

If you don't give voters what they want...

On top of that there were missteps by the Harris campaign in the last days. Ritchie Torres, Liz Cheney?? Reaffirming "iron-clad" support of Israel? Not allowing even a single - moderate - pro-Palestinian voice at the convention? And someone should have vetted Bill Clinton's speech - I say that as a huge fan who thinks he was not at his sharpest here.

There is plenty of blame to go around but engaging in that game is a losing proposition. As someone else said, it only serves to divide us.

The bottom line is that it was the policy that was not in tune with what voters wanted. Why not engage in some serious reflection about that policy instead?

[Beastly Boy]

59. Policies don't vote. Voters do.

And if you don't give voters all they want, enabling something they don't want will not get it for them.

Demanding what they want or else is an act of a spoiled rotten brat. And it rarely ends well for the brat.