So according to MSNBC this morning Zelensky is on the verge of caving

[senseandsensibility]

in to trump's demands for his country's natural minerals. If he does, I won't blame the victim. He knows what's best for his country. I'll blame trump.

There were many efforts to normalize this on MSNBC this morning from Richard Engle and a female journalist They were both basically resigned to it and the female journalist even tried to liken it to something Biden did at the end of his term and said it was just the way things are done.

Then it was Gen. Barry McCaffery's turn. He kept it simple. The United States has acted shamefully in this situation he said. He berated trump for lying that Zelensky is a dictator. Engle and the female guest looked stunned.

I wonder why simple truth telling is so shocking on a "liberal" news network.

[Johnny2X2X]

1. Sane washing

Still going on after they sane washed our democracy away.

[senseandsensibility]

2. Daytime MSNBC is worse than CNN

I am finding. I rarely watch, but this morning I wanted to see if there was any news about the Post Office (another horrible development) so I tuned in briefly.

[LSparkle]

3. Can't believe Engel would play along

He’s been in that region long enough to know the truth and I’d think he’d just smile but not advance the sanewashing. Very disappointing if he’s drunk the Koolaid. 😢

[newdeal2]

4. He's been disappointing ever since Afghanistan

[senseandsensibility]

5. I didn't want to go into too much detail in the OP

but basically he told a story of a soldier he interviewed who told him that trump's demand for mineral rights might be the lesser of two evils. It was an interesting story and no doubt it's true, but it is one person's opinion and he told no stories about anyone else's opinion. Nor did he say anything negative about trump. I couldn't help but compare it with his coverage of Biden during the exit from the war in the middle east. He would frequently show anger towards Biden and criticize him harshly. He even scornfully called Biden "half a President" at the end of his term.
Nothing like that towards trump so far, even in the face of his disgusting treatment of Ukraine and embrace of Putin.

[LSparkle]

6. Wow ... that changes my opinion of Engel significantly

Thought he was a thoughtful journalist but sounds like he’s got an angle (ouch sorry ... ).

[senseandsensibility]

8. Some much needed humor

is never remiss! We have to laugh to keep from crying in these times.

[Baitball Blogger]

9. How do you know he's not an actor?

[senseandsensibility]

10. Who? Engle?

I'm confused.

[Baitball Blogger]

24. I thought it was a soldier on the ground that I read.

[choie]

39. He interviewed one soldier,

got his opinion, and that means Zelensky os on the verge of caving? Great journalism.

[senseandsensibility]

40. Well in fairness to Engle

I don't think he was suggesting that. But he only gave that one example and did not say anything negative about trump and his approach.

[Carlitos Brigante]

11. I can. Isn't that the same asshole who lost his shit when the US pulled out of Afghanistan? nt

[GiqueCee]

14. Biden came into office...

... saddled with Trump's "plan" for withdrawal, which he was legally obligated to follow. Trump is total fuck-up, and his "plan" was so poorly thought out that, if they had followed Trump's timeline, the disaster would have been worse by several orders of magnitude, so Biden was hamstrung from the git-go.
Engle turned out to be a showboater who did not do even a modicum of homework before condemning Biden, so I have zero respect for him.

[Carlitos Brigante]

17. And what a change in tone. Shouldn't this guy be mugging for the cameras with

his "righteous" indignation about this actual betrayal?

[Baitball Blogger]

7. Just wait. I heard somewhere that Putin

Was going to declare victory on the 24th. It could be false bullshitting.

[DET]

12. Why Would He?

What’s to stop Zelensky from making a deal with another world power (say China) who could supply weapons and maybe troops in exchange for his minerals? Beats giving in to Trump.

[Diraven]

15. Because of the implied threat

The US isn't offering anything material. They're only offering to not ally with Russia against Ukraine, and then making the same mineral deal with Russia when they conquer Ukraine.

[DET]

21. In that case...

That’s not a serious offer.

[h2ebits]

20. I can't recommend this comment enough! It is spot on!

Great idea!!!! Or Zelensky could make a deal with one or more of the EU countries to provide weapons to Ukraine with payment given in rare earth minerals. Certainly not $500B

[SunSeeker]

31. Exactly. Europe could definitely uses rare earth minerals. nt

[iemanja]

13. Trump won't keep his word

Zelensky shouldn’t give up mineral rights.

[PortTack]

19. And I believe he knows that.

[Aviation Pro]

16. How often have these motherfuckers been wrong?

How about all the time?

[ancianita]

18. Corporate MSNBC's daytime programming is center-left; prime time and night programming is left. Both

day and night programming are fact-based and expert-based reporting, analysis, and opinion.

[Magoo48]

22. MSNBC is not a liberal news network as you pointed out.

What continues to baffle me is why some of us still support these corporate owned, corporate censored, corporate manipulated embarrassments to every values driven, truthful, hard-working investigative journalist, whoever lived?

Every time we turn it on, we financially support them and all they stand for.

[senseandsensibility]

23. Lawrence O'Donnell

is excellent, and so is Rachel. I feel that I should support them although sometimes I can't handle that either. The truth can be very difficult to listen to as well.

[GreenWave]

30. I recently went back to them. Rachel is pounding Trump very effectively.

[dobleremolque]

25. Meh. Consider the source. n/t

[FSogol]

26. FIFY: I don't have to wonder why simple truth telling is so shocking on a "corporate" news network.

[TommieMommy]

27. I don't trust MSNBC anymore.

[LuvLoogie]

28. Engle was young once.

Now he's vested in the traditional power structures. He plays a role.

[GreenWave]

29. He cannot trust Trump or Putin. He would be killed.

[Gore1FL]

32. Let's hope not.

Britain and many in the EU have got this covered.

[HarryM]

35. Correct

I do not, under any circumstances, see the US giving any military aid to Russia. To do so would indeed be high treason.
I do see that the forces of at least the UK, Germany, France, and other EU nations have enough to supply Ukraine, and wear down Russia.
I certainly am afraid that if the First Felon commits troops or other military support to Russia, it will be the beginning of WWIII

[Diraven]

43. They may not give direct aid

But if they lift all sanctions they can just let American companies effectively support and revive the currently crippled Russian arms industry. Russia would be happy to pay premium prices for American made weapons components, and conscienceless American oligarchs would be happy to make lots of money supplying them.

[NJCher]

33. No way

The Europeans are putting together a 70 billion war chest. Why would Zelensky give in at this point?

[senseandsensibility]

41. I hope you're right

[Hope22]

34. I hope he doesn't.

He should be at the table not waiting for the unsuccessful invader to decide the future.

[ificandream]

36. Donald Trump thanks you for putting more doubt on the media

Engle is a superb reporter. Real journalists don’t spew the company line like Fox does. There is a vast difference between analysis like Fox does all day long and reporting like MSNBC and CNN does. That’s the difference between them and the right-wing trash media.

[senseandsensibility]

37. Thanks for the lecture.

I have been observing Engle for some time, and he absolutely trashed Biden without cause for months. I gave examples in a reply above and other posters have backed me up in this thread. He called Biden "half a President" in a disgusted tone towards the end of his term. I stand by what I said, but unlike you, I will not assign ulterior motives to you as a fellow DUer.

[ificandream]

44. I worked in the newspaper business over 35 years.

Can you give some examples of Engle "trashing" Biden or calling him "half a president"? Taking comments out of context, especially if the context is analysis, doesn't mean a thing. That's what social media does ... strip comments and not try to get the real meaning. I stand by what I said about Engle. He has won a bunch of awards, including a Peabody Award and several Emmys. They don't give those out to just anyone.

[senseandsensibility]

45. I saw him say those exact words "half a President"

live on MSNBC and started a thread about it at the time. Are you actually accusing me of lying? I must say I find your accusing tone insulting and weird. And if we're going to throw "qualifications" around, I have a minor in Journalism from a well regarded journalism school. I think I'm done here. Oh, and you might want to read some other posters' comments in this thread about Engle. He has really changed in the last year or so, regardless of his previous reputation which I am well aware of.

[ificandream]

46. You're taking a phrase out of context.

Context is important. And again, real journalism is not "dipped in blue" (phrase I saw in another story I just posted). Anyone looking for that is watching the wrong station.

[DENVERPOPS]

38. I have to laugh

Why is it, that every time we compromise, it is exactly all the other side wanted, and sometimes more?
What kind of a compromise is that........

Trump Demands 50% of all minerals?..... knowing that Putin will demand the other half of the minerals, AND
all the land they have robbed already???????

[Diraven]

42. I really wish someone in the media would ask

If this is a "deal", what is the US offering Ukraine in exchange? I want someone to put them on the spot so they have to state what they are threatening Ukraine with if they don't agree.

[Mountainguy]

47. Counter with 50% of rare earths

But Trump has to deploy the 75th and US armor into Eastern Ukraine and sail a Carrier Group into the Black Sea.