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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFascism Expert Timothy Snyder Says Trump's Oligarchical Coup Is Fading
This is encouraging for us looking for green shoots of resistance. What we already see
is beginning to push back and have impact.
https://www.politicususa.com/p/fascism-expert-timothy-snyder-says
If you have read about fascism and tyranny or watched cable news, you have probably seen Professor Timothy Snyder, who has been warning about Trump and tyranny for a few years now.
Snyder’s book On Tyranny is one of the go-to modern works for people who want to understand tyranny and how to fight it, so what Professor Snyder posted on his X account on Saturday merits attention.
Snyder posted:
Something is shifting. They are still breaking things and stealing things. And they will keep trying to break and to steal. But the propaganda magic around the oligarchical coup is fading. Nervous Musk, Trump, Vance have all been outclassed in public arguments these last few days. Government failure, stock market crash, and dictatorial alliances are not popular. People are starting to realize that there is no truth here beyond the desire for personal wealth and power.
Professor Snyder’s perception is backed up by a mountain of polling that shows the country turning against Donald Trump in increasing numbers. If polling isn’t convincing, consider the large and growing number of almost daily protests directed at what Trump and Musk are doing.
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bucolic_frolic
(53,678 posts)and to showcase the goontelligence of his cohorts
DJ Synikus Makisimus
(1,163 posts)"The lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep." -- A Lannister family slogan in Game of Thrones. So it is with tyrants. Besides, when you have an entire industry devoted to the creation of fascist option among the masses on radio, tv and the internet; it's not hard to make people change their minds when it goes bad for fascists. War is one way, but someone/some group to resent, be aggrieved about, fear or hate works just as well: is that another caravan coming? Or perhaps all our problems are really the liberals' fault. Tune in to GOP TV to find out. They will tell you what to think.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)Synder's comment as an expert on fascism is signaling that we as citizens still have the power to
stop this gang of thugs. This is a major acknowledgment that all is not lost.
I expect the movement to resist will grow stronger over the coming days.. So much is happening
so fast it is hard to follow even for those of us who pay attention, and yet the polls this week
are signaling that people are paying attention and do not like what they see. These polls
do not fully register the impact of the attack and abandonment of Ukraine or the attack on
our own military and national security.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)The more trump and musk break, and the faster, the greater the chaos. The greater the chaos, the more they can do quickly. They have to do it quickly or they will get just exactly what's beginning to happen -- everyone realizing what he's doing and calling "enough."
I get pretty damned despondent at the situation, and I have so many friends and family that are caught up in the chaos... when you factor in the worry over SS and Medicare, the numbers go off the scale (including us, personally). But like some others, I do sense a change beginning. There's a feeling in the air that people are either waking up and seeing things as they are, or that they've had enough and are beginning to fight back.
The problem is the more people who fight back, and the faster those challenges happen the more cornered trump and musk and their minions feel. Then they do more and worse. IOW, it's going to get worse before it gets better. A trapped animal is always the most dangerous.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)It is to our advantage that they are moving this fast. They are making too many mistakes. People
react poorly to chaos and uncertainty. The poll numbers will continue to fall. Their arrogance
and overreach will be their downfall.
I understand your sense of despondency. It is so easy to overwhelmed with confusion and fear
My own child and their spouse are both government workers at great risk of losing their jobs.
I know that we all are at risk of losing everything.
Do not accord them too much power; that is what they want you to do. Resisting the idea
of their overwhelming power is the heart of our resistance.
LeftInTX
(34,013 posts)And he's so crazy, he implodes s little bit.
H2O Man
(78,458 posts)But the administration's plan is to get every case to the USSC. However, they have ruled against him in his first administration.
Diraven
(1,776 posts)I can see Trump starting to order his enemies jailed, or worse. Then either people will get scared into compliance, or they will really turn on him.
Quixote1818
(31,115 posts)He would probably just hasten his demise.
Phoenix61
(18,673 posts)Eloon’s dog-e boys are smart hackers but that doesn’t mean shit in the real world.
Be Leave On
(369 posts)They didn't understand the COBOL coding in the government computer systems and confusedly that payments were incorrectly going to 150 year old recipients.
They aren't that smart, mostly just brash.
MLWR
(734 posts)I don't have a problem with that. It can't come a nanosecond too soon.
newdeal2
(4,660 posts)We need to be able to imagine a future where they are defeated AND we make real positive change. Once we no longer feel fear, we can take action to stop them.
Most importantly, once the inevitability myth is shattered, they will look like a farce and start to lose power and popularity rapidly. Once they are seen as the joke they are, we can move quickly. He will still lash out, but we can and will survive it.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)Once we begin to put things back together, there will be different ways to do it. That will scare many people. We'll have to be sure to short, concise and truthful when trying to explain the difference in ways. For example, I can see where SS becomes part of a UBI that all people will qualify for. Maybe a certain percentage of their working wages combined with the UBI. A UBI is going to become absolutely necessary as corporations sweep aside whole populations of careers in favor of AI. All things will have to be considered, those that affected us the past, those that affect us now, and those that will affect us in the near future. It won't be easy, and it's going to call for some pretty strategic critical thinking. We also have to conquer this country's fear of the "elite intelligentsia" and understand that we need smart people to get this right.
regnaD kciN
(27,409 posts)...is them deciding to "send a message" with violent crackdowns on protests. Invoke the Insurrection Act and send in Whisky Pete's most devoted cadre of "crusaders" with orders to use lethal force on protesters. It worked in Tienanmen Square; the Chinese democracy movement vanished. Same as how the antiwar movement in the U.S. faded away after "four dead in Ohio." And I suspect Trump and his clique will want a lot more than four dead this time.
Alwayshopefull
(16 posts)I totally agree. They should work with organizations to pull together large venues to have rallies thus thwarting their efforts to attack us the streets.
Susan Calvin
(2,391 posts)I think it's a near certainty that Musk and his kiddie muskrats have been installing back doors in government computers.
eppur_se_muova
(40,757 posts)slightlv
(7,283 posts)Deleted databases (and missing backups) means (to nefarious individuals) that the info never existed. Thus, nothing to back up what point you're trying to make, or money you're trying to get back. Makes court actions that much harder.
markodochartaigh
(4,839 posts)after Trump and Musk "deconstruct" much of the US, leaving disorder and devastation in their wake, will the corporate Republicans side with the Democratic politicians to remove Trump? Then the Republicans could put someone just as bad, but more presentable, in place. The country would be in so much pain that it would accept previously unacceptable measures, gutting Social Security, selling off the national parks, who knows what else, all in exchange for getting rid of Trump and Musk.
Quixote1818
(31,115 posts)As others have said, Trump should have gained support from the masses, set the trap and then made his move.
Pinback
(13,479 posts)Snyder is The Man on this subject. I trust his assessment.
Dictators don’t go away on their own, of course. But there are a lot of people, including Republican voters in deep Red states and districts, who are getting fucked by these assholes. Not to mention the corporations and small business people who see chaos and Pariah State status as bad for the bottom line.
Even many of the MAGAts are going to burn out at some point. Reveling in the misery of immigrants and “The Libs” is lovely for them for a while, but that only goes so far when your community and family are feeling the pain as well.
Martin68
(26,884 posts)Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)Our 250 year old democracy does not fall so easily. Democracy is deeply imbedded in our ethos.
Mme. Defarge
(8,874 posts)I logged in to rec. your post.
Big Blue Marble
(5,666 posts)It is so affirming that signs of resistance are having this effect.
Blue Owl
(58,102 posts)Get this fuck out of our government and out of our fucking country
Stripped if his citizenship and deported to South Africa.
eppur_se_muova
(40,757 posts)creon
(1,772 posts)He needs to be deported
eppur_se_muova
(40,757 posts)
Dark n Stormy Knight
(10,479 posts)Isn't Trump's wife also technically "an illegal," too?
Of course, the rules don't apply to the "law & order party."
slightlv
(7,283 posts)counted as citizens. They both broke the immigration rules. Everyone else is being punished, degraded, and deported. They must feel so very special that they can do the same thing as the other "illegal immigrants" and get away with it. I say enough! Punish, degrade, and deport them both. Stripped of citizenship, deported back to their countries of origin, and flagged as not allowed into the country anymore, at all... period. Think trump would follow his wife wherever she went? I think the first thing that would happen is a divorce!
regnaD kciN
(27,409 posts)
creon
(1,772 posts)There are doomsters on line preaching the opposite.
I think that is wrong.
I think that the object to looting and wrecking and punishing enemies and marginal people.
DallasNE
(7,944 posts)I haven't been a follower of his since the 1990's and was surprised to see him making the rounds. But, today, I thought he nailed it. He said that the GOP was coming apart and now was the time to just sit back and let them self-destruct.
The message of stay in the ready but enjoy the show seems to be a good strategy for now.
av8rdave
(10,649 posts)As the possibility of their failure looms, Musk/trump might act out of desperation. Look for a Reichstag fire type event or worse, an attack on citizens by the military. trump now has senior military leadership in place that will obey its orders no matter how immoral or unconstitutional.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)Especially now. Too much happening, too much chaos, too many people being hurt and ruined for the rest of their lives. We have to strategically be in this fight to limit the number of those hurt. There are many different ways, depending on the situation, and I absolutely admit I don't have the answers or correct suggestions. But I am willing to help those that do.
DallasNE
(7,944 posts)But when I think about yesterday I think that I want the lead story to be French PM Macron fact-checking Trump real-time and today the story of 21 DOGE people resigning and not some typo by a Democrat. Indeed, I think these events are what Carville had in mind when he made his statement.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100220069838
artemisia1
(1,269 posts)JI7
(93,099 posts)I'm seeing comments from people that have actually worked in government positions and things like Musk telling people to write what they did last week and why they should keep their job just comes off as nonsensical .
slightlv
(7,283 posts)Like musk would have even an inkling of understanding what each person's bullet point even meant! It's just another way to stab the populace with fear and seem like you're micromanaging the entire federal workforce. To anyone who's worked any place at any time, we're familiar with these megalomaniacs. And they always come to a bad end, one way or another. People won't stand to be humiliated like this for long.
AmericaUnderSiege
(777 posts)Bunch of greedy babies incapable of building anything new or preserving anything old but their prejudices. All they can do is take what others build and watch it turn to shit in their hands.
A fitting hell for them, but it would be nice to simply avoid the damned cycles of disgrace they put America through.
Magoo48
(6,687 posts)Posts like this provide incentive, at least for me, to go on with the small resistances which I am undertaking.
4catsmom
(667 posts)and that's when he's GONE
S/V Loner
(9,483 posts)My instincts are telling me we are getting played and set up.
The way I see it the ones behind all these changes (Heritage, Federalist, GOP, Thiel, along with others) are letting Trump and Musk do all the damage tearing apart our government. There will come a time when either the people get mad enough, or enough changes have been made to satisfy those driving this madness and it will end. When the time is right action will be taken to remove Trump and Musk and those behind the removals will be seen by the country as saviors.
At that point Vance (their planned choice) will take over and, along with the GOP, appear to work making things right. The thing is, all of the institutions will be destroyed by then giving them the opportunity to re-build the government as they see fit. That is the original intent, and most will go along if there appears to be stability from the chaos.
The media, business owners, the wealthy will carry the torch promoting the new leadership and praising the end of chaos but the country will never be the same.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)One of the things that makes me think like that is their keeping Vance out of the limelight for so long. They think they can cover his reputation by keeping him hidden, and brought out to be the savior, as you say.
Also, we've not seen the major thrust of theology that we were expecting. I see pieces of it, especially since I'm Pagan. They've attacked us at gatherings, and had us thrown out of Interfaith communities. But the real push hasn't happened yet. I think they're saving this for Vance and what I call Phase 2. Thing is, I fear people will be breathing such a sigh of relief or musk and trump being gone, they'll sleepwalk thru Vance and the talibangelicals. This is where the stripping of real civil rights will come from. The making us into a theocratic society, ruled (still) by the oligarchs. This is my greatest fear.
S/V Loner
(9,483 posts)I haven’t forgotten about the christian nationalist. That will come to some extent. The people behind this may be evil but they are not stupid and they will not leave their success in the hands of a loose canon like trump. They dislike trump and Musk but the two of them are useful tools to create the damage and then get the blame. Then they will solidify their position. Vance will take the lead for as long as he is useful and the bonus they get is putting another one of their players in the VP position.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)S/V Loner
(9,483 posts)totodeinhere
(13,686 posts)something is not quite right. But mark my word, Rump will not go without a fight. And by the time this is all resolved one way or the other, the damage he and Musk have already done will take years to undo. So prepare yourselves folks, it is going to be a very rough ride.
Uncle Joe
(64,010 posts)as they say about "wounded animals being most dangerous" that it will de-evolve into increasing authoritarianism, and at some point the Musk/*rump administration will call for martial law, they're just looking for an excuse to do it. That's why they're so cavalier about breaking so many things, they want society to implode from the chaos.
Back in the day of Ferdinand Marcos, that's how they did it in the Philippines and elsewhere around the world.
260. Memorandum From the President’s Assistant for National Security Affairs (Kissinger) to President Nixon1
Washington, September 23, 1972.
President Marcos imposed martial law throughout the Philippines at midnight September 22. He proclaimed it officially at mid-day September 23, according to press reports, saying that it did not involve military rule and that civilian government would continue. We do not yet have the text of the proclamation, and thus do not at this point know its specifics, particularly as to whether Marcos suspended the Congress.
The situation at present is as follows:
—Numerous arrests of Marcos’ critics have reportedly been made, according to Embassy Manila, including opposition Liberal Party Secretary General Aquino (whom Marcos recently accused of conspiring with the Communists), several other opposition politicians, and Manila Times editor Roces and several other journalists and commentators.
—All television stations and most radio stations have been closed, and no major newspapers appeared the morning of September 23. Radio stations are broadcasting no news.
(snip)
https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1969-76ve12/d322
At 7:15 p.m. on September 23, 1972, President Ferdinand Marcos announced on television that he had placed the Philippines under martial law,[1][2] stating he had done so in response to the "communist threat" posed by the newly founded Communist Party of the Philippines (CPP), and the sectarian "rebellion" of the Muslim Independence Movement (MIM). Opposition figures of the time (such as Lorenzo Tañada, Jose W. Diokno, and Jovito Salonga) accused Marcos of exaggerating these threats and using them as an excuse to consolidate power and extend his tenure beyond the two presidential terms allowed by the 1935 constitution.[3] Marcos signed Proclamation No. 1081 on September 21, 1972, marking the beginning of a fourteen-year period of one-man rule, which effectively lasted until Marcos was exiled from the country on February 25, 1986.[4][5] Proclamation No. 1081 was formally lifted on January 17, 1981, although Marcos retained essentially all of his powers as dictator until he was ousted in February 1986.[6][7]
This nine-year period in Philippine history is remembered for the Marcos administration's record of human rights abuses,[8][9] particularly targeting political opponents, student activists, journalists, religious workers, farmers, and others who fought against the Marcos dictatorship.[10] Based on the documentation of Amnesty International, Task Force Detainees of the Philippines, and similar human rights monitoring entities,[11] historians believe that the Marcos dictatorship was marked by 3,257 known extrajudicial killings, 35,000 documented tortures, 737 "disappeared", and 70,000 incarcerations.[11][12]: 4 [13]: 16 After Marcos was ousted, government investigators discovered that the declaration of martial law had also allowed the Marcoses to hide secret stashes of unexplained wealth that various courts[6] later determined to be "of criminal origin".[14]
While Marcos's presidency began in late 1965,[15] this article is limited to the period in which he exercised dictatorial powers under martial law,[1] and the period where he continued to wield those powers despite lifting the proclamation in 1981.[16][17]
(snip)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martial_law_under_Ferdinand_Marcos#:~:text=At%207%3A15%20p.m.%20on,sectarian%20%22rebellion%22%20of%20the%20Muslim
They're already attacking the free press, trashing the courts and threatening political opponents with prison.
One of the first steps would be to eliminate military leadership whom actually honors their oath to the U.S. Constitution.
Trump fires chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and two other military officers
https://apnews.com/article/trump-brown-joint-chiefs-of-staff-firing-fa428cc1508a583b3bf5e7a5a58f6acf
Thanks for the thread Big Blue Marble
Bluethroughu
(7,215 posts)
bagimin
(1,652 posts)
AntiFascist
(13,717 posts)
Beartracks
(14,276 posts)
struggle4progress
(125,288 posts)I'm expecting at least another 100 weeks of necessary vigilance and planning
Wild blueberry
(8,062 posts)It's a boost to think we can preserve our country and its democracy. Not letting my guard down. Will be fighting on all fronts for the duration.
Aussie105
(7,505 posts)The Trump Mafia is now in charge of the country, the order of the day is extortion and corruption everywhere.
Some drastic action called for.
Starting with passive resistance and active non-compliance. And escalate from there.
slightlv
(7,283 posts)Mahatma Ghandi and how he managed to succeed. Once again, critical thinkers and historians are needed!
creon
(1,772 posts)The "shock and awe" will not work.
Their purpose to wreck and loot.
Stting up some kind of fascist authoritarianism is not their primary goal.
The goal is wrecking, looting and revenge.
roamer65
(37,813 posts)50 percent is the average decrease in recessions, which we are now in.
