Cya later everyone

[NightOwwl]

Might be back in a few months to see if things are different.

Emotions are raw, I realize that. But that's no excuse to eat your own.

Combative threads like 'Petition to forbid support of the NRA at DU' get over 300 recs. But when someone responds with a polite, well-reasoned rebuttal, that post gets sent to a DU Jury because someone disagrees with the content. Now that is fubar. I was on that jury so I know it did not violate community standards at all. It wasn't pro-gun or pro-NRA, just a different opinion.

After I served on the jury, I posted in the same thread asking if DU had always been so hateful and divisive. That was my observation so I posted it. When did we become the ones who slime everyone with the same brush? Anyway, I went to get a drink of water and by the time I came back my post had been hidden.

So enuff of this.

As a last word I would like to recommend the book 'The Power of Now.' Basically it states that positive change will never happen when actions are taken based on reactive emotions such as hate, fear and anger. In other words, banning assault weapons (which I fully agree with btw) will be a temporary bandaid, but it won't solve our underlying problems. There's much, much more to the book - I highly recommend it.

Good luck and take care.

[Marrah_G]

1. Everyone needs a break now and then

[BeyondGeography]

2. What do you expect?

Newtown is an earthquake.

[letemrot]

3. I wish you well..

It is ridiculous the amount of abuse gun owners are getting.

[boston bean]

4. Abuse of gun owners???

How about those who are dead? The worse type of abuse.

[letemrot]

7. One guy did it..

Why lash out at people who had no part in it. Contrary to what many are saying I DO NOT have blood on my hands.

[ellisonz]

18. Good thing that child was completely immersed in the gun culture...

[letemrot]

19. Well my Dad was 'completely immersed'

From a young age; he never murdered anyone. I haven't murdered anyone and I have been immersed.

[ellisonz]

21. Dude - it's not about you!

My father shot squirrels for dinner with a single-shot .22

That has jack shit with a "need" to own semi-automatic hand guns and assault rifles!

[letemrot]

25. I shot squirrels starting at age 10 with my Dad

I was given a youth model bolt action .22 when I turned 9. That would make my Dad and me a 'gun nut,' by the standards of many here.

[ellisonz]

27. Not really...

That's a straw-man.

Do you believe you need semi-automatic handguns and assault weapons to hunt?

[pkdu]

34. And that's usually where you start hearing crickets......nt.

[ellisonz]

36. Maybe this one is different...

[letemrot]

35. No

But I do have an under barrel tube fed 18 shot .22 that is semi-auto and it makes it real easy to bag multiple squirrels (well it did when I was in KY) or if I missed. It was better than using a 410 and munching on the pellets. But, yes, to many anti-gun people; that very scenario makes me and my dad 'gun nuts.'

[ellisonz]

37. You need 18 rounds to hunt squirrels?

Reloading is really that hard?

I don't know how my father ever ate without 18 rounds!

[letemrot]

41. Well when we out we would often get 10 squirrels

A piece. Sometimes it took 2 shots. And yes working the bolt can spook 'critters' and prevent you from getting a drop on them.

[ellisonz]

43. 2 people - 20 squirrels? You ate them all?

[letemrot]

46. I have 7 brothers and sisters

Plus my parents.. And often dinners were a 'family affair' which included grandparents aunts- uncles, cousins etc. So yes.. We ate them all.

[ellisonz]

47. Still

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westside_Middle_School_massacre

[letemrot]

51. So which is it.. I am or am not a gun nut?

Am I or am I not 'different' as you alluded to in your other comment? I states precisely what I have and used. You questioned the number of squirrels and then came back with a link to Jonesboro, Arkansas; after you stated I made a straw man argument about the standards of 'gun nuttery' here on DU? So which is it?

[ellisonz]

55. Do you really believe you need 18 rounds to hunt squirrels more than you...

...need safer schools to send your kids to? I think only you can answer that question. But there certainly is a right answer and a wrong one.

In all likelihood based on statistics today, the gun violence will one day touch your life. Hopefully, we can change that for the next generation.

You're either with us or against us on this one. We are going to change this country.

[letemrot]

56. Need.. ?

Need is no. Want.. Well I don't even hunt any more.

[upi402]

8. oh jesus

gun owners dish it out but cry like babies when the light of truth falls on them

[Agschmid]

22. ^^ This ^^

[letemrot]

23. 'Truth'

What truth? That you don't like gun owners and it's ok to insult, denigrate and belittle us now?

[Agschmid]

24. More like block you. But yeah. n/t

[letemrot]

26. Well have it

You are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[ThatPoetGuy]

32. Nothing against you, or about you, personally or collectively, since you're new here.

but the people who are getting called out, personally and collectively, have a years-long history of verbal abuse, lying, propagandizing, bullying, and, in many cases, racism.

If we (advocates of sane gun legislation) speak in tones of disgust, it's because we've been exposed for so long and so consistently to people who are pro-gun and vile.

I hope you help change our minds. Welcome to DU!

[letemrot]

38. Reasonable discourse

Has changed my mind. Assault rifles have no place on the street. But a semi auto .22-270 made to "look like" an M-16 or M4 are not assault rifles. Handguns should be tightly regulated. Something has to be done.. True enough. But I don't know what. And calling gun owners 'murderers' or saying that we have 'blood on our hands' is not conducive to winning people over.

[Scootaloo]

31. Somehow, I think you'll live

Apply some Preparation H to your hurt butt and fucking deal with it, hey?

[letemrot]

42. I'm sure I'll live

Thanks for the friendly advice.

[nadinbrzezinski]

49. Funny, I am one

Don't feel abused, one iota.

[letemrot]

54. Well I don't have all the experiences

That you have had. So maybe your skin is thicker from all the exposure you have had? I don't know. My perception is that people who are against gun owners have a free pass right now to insult and denigrate all they want to.

[nadinbrzezinski]

58. Well, let's put it this way

What people have no patience for any longer, and that includes me, are tired NRA talking points.

Do we have a few on the other side...going "ban them," sure...it happens every time.

What is different is that people are to the point of had it with the other extreme..."if teachers were armed they could have stopped it," or the "we need more guns in schools," or the "no form of regulation works." All these are NRA talking points.

You said you are all for reasonable gun control laws...so am I...you are not the target of this derision, for the most part.

I am a gun owner...I have zero tolerance for these NRA talking points. And the people spouting them are just as radical as the "all gun owners have blood in their hands." The difference is the former is coming from fear that somehow we will come and take their precious away, cue the cackles. The latter is coming from deep seated anger.

And experiences. I have been bullied in this place, why I no longer give money. You want to make this a more pleasant experience? Use the ignore button, until at least things cool down.

Regardless, I got the feeling that we crossed a critical point and that change is coming. I hope that for once, I am not disappointed. And perhaps certain infantry rifles, that's what they are, will no longer be available to civilians. On the down side, what is out there can't be put back, and will have to be grand fathered. So any change in policy will take a while to bear results.

Perhaps is being here for ten years and knowing who is who in the zoo...helps.

[Livluvgrow]

5. what is ridiculous is

the amount of terror we have to put up with at the hands of gun owners. What is ridiculus is the amount of death at that school and all over America at the hands of gun owners.

[letemrot]

11. Blame the individuals

That commit the acts.. Not the 79.99999 million gun owners that didnt.

[Stinky The Clown]

13. Yeah, dammit. And don't blame the spoons for obesity. What is WRONG with people???

Did I do that good? Huh? Did I?

[letemrot]

16. Well in your snark

I guess you missed the idea that if an individual wants to eat they'll use their hands if no other tools are available.

[Livluvgrow]

14. here let me try

to find some sympathy for you butt hurt little rambo wannabes

here is a little tidbit you all should contemplate

NY Times: In past 6 months, more Americans killed by guns than COMBINED total of dead Yanks in Iraq, Afghan & all terrorist acts of past 25 years.

P.S i looked hard and didn't find a nano gram of sympathy for you or all the others like you who feel so brutalized.

[letemrot]

15. Well what can say?

We have the right to keep and bear arms guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment. You are calling ME and everyone else who owns a gun a murderer. So you must believe those that use illicit drugs to be murderers as well since their product comes from violent cartels? Replace 'gun owners' with Muslim,Jewish, Christian or Hindi or any other religion and these very comments would be hidden so quick heads would spin. I picked religion because those are a personal choice and the choice to worship (or not) how you see fit is also enshrined in the Constitution. So what other rights beside gun ownership do you wish to do away with?

[Livluvgrow]

20. Hmmm

lets see in my posts where did I call you a murderer? Feelin a bit guilty are ya? To answer you and your foolish posts about how you are so so persecuted as a group well last I checked there are over 300 million guns in America. Are you happy, you win, and this week we have 20 more statistics and yes all murders occur at the hands of a gun owner someone at that moment owned the gun they certainly dont own themselves. Oh and it is funny that people with all these so powerful weapons feel so victimized, do our words of disapproval hurt you that bad?

[letemrot]

29. Well if not you then many here have called

Gun owners murderers. Hell there was an OP titled "you gun owners all have blood on your hands." It's not 'words of disapproval.' It's insults; belittling and outright hostility. Disapproval would be acceptable. Calling all gun owners 'stupid' 'childish' 'murderers' etc is what has been going on since Friday. You are welcome to disagree. But gun ownership is a right protected by the Constitution; so until you get it amended.. We will keep our guns.

[Livluvgrow]

33. You

obviously get to keep your guns as do all of the other 300 million guns get to be kept but WE also get to scream loudly about sensible controls on gun ownership. Why shouldn't a gun owner have to prove their competency before being allowed to own such a serious device? Why shouldn't they have to prove their skill in shooting, housing, handling and cleaning their weapon? If guns are found unlocked in the presence of children why shouldn't gun owners be charged with neglect?

[letemrot]

45. I disagree with none of what you said

I support it one hundred percent; in fact. That's a far cry from the 'ban guns' and 'repeal the 2nd Amendment' threads flying around. It also doesn't call gun owners murderers etc. Thank you.

[NYC Liberal]

60. I blame both the individuals and the weapons that enable them to massacre dozens of people

with horrific ease.

[Barack_America]

6. Take care.

See you back when you're ready.

[seabeyond]

9. when du decided there would be no rules for us to follow... even we can be at our ugliest, when

as a community we hold to no rules of civility. it grow, feeds off itself and grows some more.

[L0oniX]

53. It reveals some of the problem that starts in school with insulting and bullying...

then they grow up but still insult and bully ...and then their children learn it from them and it keep going on. These same people were or are of the type that went along with attacking Iraq because of 911. They were angry and irrational and out to strike at anything ...right or wrong.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

10. Lack of toleranceforf gun nuttery is becoming a community standard

And that's a move in the right direction.

Good luck to you.

[RomneyLies]

12. Bye n/t

[Honeycombe8]

17. I totally understand, Nightowl. I might do the same.

I was on a jury, too. The post should have been hidden. I voted to hide it, irrespective of the substance of the post and the OP he was responding to. The responding post out and out called the OP an NRA pimp and whore. Clearly against DU guidelines and clearly over the line. However, the OP was anti-NRA and was very irritating, so I understood how the responder got carried away. Still, two others voted to hide, but three voted to leave it. One jury member out and out talked about the opinions of the posts....which shouldn't have been considered at all. It simply was a matter of calling another poster a pimp and a whore.

Clearly, some people here can't handle this situation, and have become like runaway trains without regard for others. Which is ironic, given the incident we're all responding to.

[Logical]

28. Ignore them, they are on a witch hunt for anyone who disagrees with them!

[elleng]

30. Sorry, Owwl.

I've avoided reading that thread, and sorry you served on jury. Things SHOULD improve here.

[liberal_at_heart]

39. things have definitely become a little too extreme around here

I understand people want to keep this from happening again but the personal attacks on this site have been getting pretty nasty and I'm just not sure the jury process will be able to keep this place clean enough right now. It is beyond my understanding how asking for more resources for mental health is a bad thing but apparently it is. I may take a cue from some of the others and take a break for a while myself.

[rainlillie]

52. I agree.

[slutticus]

40. Relax, it's just a forum

People tend to be harsher than typical behind a keyboard. We become a bit less personable when we don't "know" the person we're arguing with. (or a lot less personable...)

Emotions are high right now for good reason, but you should never take what happens on a forum personally. It's just not worth the stress and discomfort. If someone tells you to fuck off and die, then just move on. It's not worth it. I always just shake my head when I see subthreads with 50+ replies, it's nuts. That energy is better spent elsewhere IMO.

[IDoMath]

44. You are obviously smarter than me

I need to just walk away and probably stay away.

[Skittles]

48. put the gun nuts back into their gungeon

and fucking LEAVE THEM THERE

[L0oniX]

50. I feel the same way. Bunch of irrational fire ants attacking all who won't join the crowd.

It just makes them more angry because it leaves them exposed for the immature irrational people they are. They aren't interested in a long process of changing societal attitude by teaching our children not to accept name calling, hitting, bullying, fighting and shooting as a way of solving problems. They are not interested in removing the hypocrisy when it come to soldiers being brave for using guns to kill the latest enemy and calling them heroes (but gun owners are cowards ...so goes the insults) to allowing tv and movies to make it seem like the norm to hit people. Violence IMO is mostly taught and the cure has to start with the children and it will take years for it to take affect. We have to stop the wars. We have to show we care about others ...food ...health ...shelter otherwise the meanness will continue to take over. Just part of my opinion. Come back in a few weeks ...should be better here by then.

[pnwest]

57. I've been thinking about doing the same. Even before Friday and the subsequent gun wars here,

I've been beaten up about something I've said the last few times I've posted. It's been very hateful. I felt like it started after the election was over, and election fever was gone - it seemed like people started getting really nasty. I haven't decided to leave completely yet, but several times lately I've started to comment on a post, and erased my reply because the flame-wars just aren't worth it. But old habits die hard, this site is just one of the stops on my rotation of sites I HAVE to run through every time I log on. (about 47X a day )

[XRubicon]

59. Bye

So you are saying we should do nothing because it will only be a temporary band aid? You think unless we have a perfect solution that fixes everything we should do nothing?

Reactive emotions? I guess if you were about to get into a car accident, you would say to yourself "I dont want to be reactive in hit the brakes, I am going to crash anyway... whats the use"

I'd throw that book in the trash... The title sounds like it was written for weak minded people.

[Trillo]

61. This/that is how DU was during the * years.

There was a period of increased civility for a time, in the last several years. Maybe that civility will come back, maybe it won't. When people get angry, they lash out. Perhaps this is a weakness of humans. Perhaps this explains why countries, seemingly run by humans, are always at war.