UPDATE: DU history buffs, which modern country's fall to autocracy...

[OneGrassRoot]

Last edited Thu Feb 27, 2025, 12:48 PM - Edit history (1)

most closely mirrors what we're experiencing?

I'm curious about examples of a timeline of exactly how things played out when the authoritarians removed public services, took away any protections, and increased citizen debt, illness, and general misery.

TIA

UPDATE: I've read about Orban's approach and how he preserved the illusion of democracy to the point that many citizens don't realize they live in an autocratic society.

Mainer's recommendation about Poland being one example of thwarted authoritarianism was helpful.

EverHopeful's gifting of The Atlantic article (highly recommended read!), laid out how one of the most effective ways to attack this Trump-Musk brand of authoritarians is to expose corruption. That article led me to this, where that's explored with Poland as the example.

https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-visas-for-cash-scandal-anti-immigrant-government-slammed/

One thing we don't have that Poland had was a visible opposition leader -- one voice -- to hammer home all of the examples of this corruption. Navalny was in a similar position, until Putin murdered him.

And I know the corruption has been SOOOOO obvious to us for ages but with them collapsing services and even MAGA being harmed and upset that they're being harmed, maybe this could be the most effective strategy.

[Lonestarblue]

1. I think Turkey under Erdogan and Venezuela under Maduro would qualify.

[dhol82]

3. I was shocked at how rapidly Turkey turned

Visited in late 90’s and again ten years later. What a difference!
And he was only Prime Minister then.

[Voltaire2]

9. Turkey had a long troubled history as a democratic republic

with frequent military coups. The military considered itself the final political authority and exercised that power. In the military's defense, it did so to keep the religious fanatics out of power. That it failed to do so in 2016 is arguably a tragedy.

[mainer]

2. Hungary under Victor Orban.

But remember, 2 nations managed to overturn autocracy and save democracy: Brazil and Poland.
It CAN be done!

[obamanut2012]

4. Orban

[Voltaire2]

5. Hungary is a good example.

But there really is no historical precedent for a 250 year old democratic republic being taken over by a group of oligarchs, except somewhat by a 100 year old democratic republic being taken over by a group of oligarchs. See the USA circa ~1878-1900, from the end of reconstruction to the reform era starting with Theodore Roosevelt. Even then the gilded age was not as corrupt and overt as what is going on now.

Going way back there is the Roman Republic being overthrown by Julius Caesar.

[EverHopeful]

6. Recommend Anne Applebaum's Autocracy Inc.

Also trying to gift an Atlantic article proposing that "... it is not classic authoritarianism--nor is it autocracy, oligarchy, or monarchy. Trump is installing what scholars call patrimonialism."

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2025/02/corruption-trump-administration/681794/?gift=Dg604QyZ-_9n-X5wEEw47BPn2E8R--4nZHu6YbESlAY&utm_source=copy-link&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=share

[OneGrassRoot]

7. Thank you very much! It worked. Off to read... n/t

[OneGrassRoot]

8. kick for update n/t