HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Some completely honest an...

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:26 AM

 

Some completely honest and well intended questions.

Gun advocates, I am sincere when I ask you this.

What can we do to stop these killings?

I've been trained to shoot. I believe in the right to keep and bear arms. I believe in the right to self defense. I accept hunting as a source of food and as a sport. There are legitimate uses for guns, and I believe in the Second Amendment.

But dear God, something has to be done.

In one week we've seen three mass shootings - one of which killed over a dozen children - and at least two more thwarted that we know of.

This cannot become the new normal. This is not acceptable.

What are the answers? How can we respond? How do we prevent this sort of thing in the future?

If we can't find solutions to this, then the obvious and distasteful one is likely to be forced upon us.

14 replies, 1614 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 14 replies Author Time Post
Reply Some completely honest and well intended questions. (Original post)
Pab Sungenis Dec 2012 OP
Indydem Dec 2012 #1
Pab Sungenis Dec 2012 #2
Indydem Dec 2012 #6
Pab Sungenis Dec 2012 #7
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #3
PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #12
RKP5637 Dec 2012 #14
WooWooWoo Dec 2012 #4
Pab Sungenis Dec 2012 #5
WooWooWoo Dec 2012 #10
PoliticalBiker Dec 2012 #8
JoePhilly Dec 2012 #9
NV Whino Dec 2012 #13
upaloopa Dec 2012 #11

Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:29 AM

1. You can't stop them.

 

The idea that you can stop evil people from committing evil acts is naive.

Guns are not required to commit mass murder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_city_bombing

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Indydem (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:30 AM

2. Well, what about the mental health system in this country.

 

Would reform, restructuring, and rebuilding of it cut down on these events, if not stop them?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:34 AM

6. What would you have us do, as a society?

 

Institutionalize every person who is a "goth" or has a mental disorder? Cage them like animals?

What about the shooter at Aurora? I haven't seen anyone say he was anything but a normal guy who just decided to do evil.

These events are terrible - TERRIBLE - but there is no solution to them. They represent an ugly, ugly, ugly fact of life.

We are powerless to stop them if we want to remain a free society based on the rule of law and the rights of the individual.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Indydem (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:38 AM

7. "Mental health" does not equal "cage them."

 

Better diagnosis and treatment, especially in the early stages.

Prevention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:31 AM

3. Gun violence is only a symptom of a very disturbed society ... I think there

are many undying factors ... The hatred today never ceases to astound me. We've become in many ways a culture of hatred and tribes running around one hating one other. In all my years here I don't think I've ever seen this country so divided in so many ways.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to RKP5637 (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:01 AM

12. I think you have hit on a very important...

... part of the problem.
Our society has become so de-sensitized with violence that the step from movie or video game to real-life is almost non-existant.
I don't go to horror movies. Blood, guts and gore get worse for each movie or video game that comes out tries to out-gore and out-graphic the next. Why? Money. Society accepts these *norms* because of capitalism. If money can be made, laws will allow it and society will accept it... sometimes unwillingly, but money rules.
That paradigm has to change. Money cannot be the ruling or deciding factor. The influence of money is so engrained in our society that it will take a very courageous congress to change that, but it must be done... in all facets of our society. Only then will reason rule and conscience guide our growth as a people

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PoliticalBiker (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:21 PM

14. Yep, as has often been said, money is the root of all evil, and in our runaway

capitalistic society of today it's more true than ever IMO.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:33 AM

4. outside of armed security everywhere

I can't think of anything else that would be a deterrent.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WooWooWoo (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:34 AM

5. Do we need a deterrent?

 

What about an actual solution?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:52 AM

10. what's the solution to terrorism?

when you can answer that, we can implement it. Until then, I say we start working on deterrents.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:43 AM

8. Absolutely, something has to be done

I am a gun owner. I believe in the 2nd amendment. I DON'T hunt and don't believe in the *sport* of killing animals. If you MUST hunt to feed your family, that is one thing (and let's be honest, where and who does that ACTUALLY affect?), killing for sport is NOT a need.
Being good with your weapons is acceptable and preferred, but unrestricted availablitiy and ownership is just not reasonable. Regardless of what the NRA stumps for.

Background checks for hand guns but not long guns? What's up with that? Oh and, assault weapons are considered long guns.
Waiting periods... long ones
Registration REQUIRED!!
Ballistics checks
Gun safes, trigger locks, implied ownership responsibility
Gun safety and proficiency requirements
Safe Zones

All reasonable restrictions. Probably more I haven't thought of.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:45 AM

9. Graded weapons licensees.

I'm not a gun advocate. Don't own one, don't plan to ever own one. But I think people should be able to own certain weapons, but not others.

So my proposal is a simple one. Graded Weapons Licensees.

We start with the premise that the 2nd Amendment ensures a right to a specific set of "arms", and not every weapon that has ever, or will ever, exist. The weapons in this class we'll call, Class 1. To own these, you need the current back ground check.

Then, there are Levels 2, 3, 4, however many we need. The regulations and criteria for ownership increase at each level.

You have to demonstrate a certain level of proficiency at each level. Not just the ability to shoot the weapon, but also to maintain, it. And you'd need to demonstrate that proficiency periodically. You need to complete specific training programs at the various levels.

Using this type of approach, you have a much better chance identifying those who are lack the mental stability to own the more dangerous weapons safely.

As for how the groups are arranged, my initial thinking is that you might be able to class weapons based on their kill potential. The more deadly the weapon, the higher up the grading scale it goes.

You'd also place various ammo and clip sizes into the grading system.

So in the end, you can own any weapon and any ammo that you want, but beyond the initial set, you need to demonstrate greater proficiency.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JoePhilly (Reply #9)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:02 AM

13. Excellent analysis

I think this is a good start to regulating gun ownership.

And it gives a start to identifying mental health issues. I think another element for ownership to be included is proximity to children.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Pab Sungenis (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 10:52 AM

11. A woman who feared attacks from some unknown

group so she owned several weapons as defense against what she feared.
She died from the use of her guns by her son. Both are dead now along with the children and the teachers. The fear and the guns are the effects of the gun lobby's efforts.
So we have to shut the gun lobby up. Make it not possible for them to promote their cause. There is a connection in the promotion of fear, the selling of weapons to the fearful and the deaths of these children.
If any one of us is not in favor of breaking this chain, then that one is an enabler of it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread