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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsZelenskyy may give in to Mango Mussolini
I hope it isn't so, but here is the statement from twixxer:
Regarding the agreement on minerals and security, Ukraine is ready to sign it in any time and in any convenient format. We see this agreement as a step toward greater security and solid security guarantees, and I truly hope it will work effectively.
Here's the link to the entire statement:
Link to tweet
In my not so humble opinion, he is caving to a criminal and Russian agent.
I wouldn't trust Nectarine Nero to make change for a quarter.
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He is going to act in the interests of his countrymen. He is less interested in our internal politics. This isn't about him "caving" or the person of Trump at all. This is about a head of state acting like a head of state and engaging in diplomacy.
Framing this as Minister Zelenskyy "caving to Trump" is needlessly inflammatory.
He is caving to the same extent that he did when he effectively said WTF to the "perfect phone call".
Let's not assign our political valance to a somewhat independent sphere of experience.
HarryM
(459 posts)I will change it OK?
MayReasonRule
(4,096 posts)
HarryM
(459 posts)MayReasonRule
(4,096 posts)Happy Tuesday y'all!
Watchfoxheadexplodes
(3,542 posts)Trump wants a grovelling apology period.
MayReasonRule
(4,096 posts)
mr715
(3,452 posts)I hope I'm not seeming too prickly. I don't object to your post, I just wanted to express that Minister Zelenskyy is engaging in a different calculus than, say, Democrats voting on a government funding bill. Zelenskyy can engage both tactically and strategically, so "caving" may be a way to advance his position more effectively than stomping sand.
Appreciate you. Be well.
MR
MayReasonRule
(4,096 posts)
unblock
(56,173 posts)He's been attacked as not being interested in peace, so he has to say he wants peace, he has to look cooperative, he has to say he's willing to negotiate.
That doesn't mean he's compromising on anything.
I read this more as a reset. "Hey, you flipped out because you think I didn't say thank you? Fine, here's a thank you. Can we have a constructive discussion now?"
HarryM
(459 posts)By Nectarine Nero and his lackeys. And the lamestream media in the US just parrots what he says. Not so here in Europe.
DemMedic
(590 posts)Set an agreement with the whole of the EU and make them your partners, not this Russian tool play acting as a President.
MayReasonRule
(4,096 posts)Zelensky is an intelligent individual that is placing his country's interests at the forefront of all negotiations.
I am confident that Zelensky will craft a deal that is ultimately beneficial for Ukraine.
I am confident that otherwise... Zelensky will walk away without signing...
Just like he did in D.C. .
HarryM
(459 posts)Just today I heard 2 F-18s and an Apache helicopter go by. Not normal.
Other than that, eggs are about 3 euros for ten, there is some inflation, but not very bad
Gas is about 2 euros a liter ($8 a gallon) pretty much the same as it has been for a few years.
The right wingers are also here, but they are not as bad as they are in the US
Nobody that I have had a conversation with cannot stand Mango Mussolini
Everybody that I have encountered here stands with Ukraine.
Everybody here that I know cannot stand Putin.
No guns here. Less violence, but some none the less.
Taxes are high, but so are social services.
What else you wanna know?
HarryM
(459 posts)Not sure if you can get it in the US, but here goes.
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/c981p3dxnent#player
Just a minute ago, one of the newscasters on BBC stated that Zelenskyy is caving in.
I apologize if some are offended by that statement, but that is what was said.
Emrys
(9,090 posts)The BBC is not what it once was.
BeyondGeography
(41,043 posts)It won’t matter; Trump is already doing everything he can to destroy Zelensky and any hopes for an independent Ukraine at the direction of Putin. What this message mainly does is put his European partners in a less adversarial position so they will have more political cover at home to support him. It wouldn’t surprise me if he wrote it at their request.
roamer65
(37,902 posts)Nulock
(39 posts)Reality matters. People can continue to delude themselves with emotion but that won't change a thing. Anybody not operating on emotion that understands Geo-Politics knows Zelenskyy is in an unwinnable situation. Ukraine was not winning, is not winning, and can't win the war. It's that simple. The Unipolar world where the US is the only big dog on the block is over. It's a Multipolar world now with shifting alliances. Other big dogs are looking to grab a bigger share of the global capitalist pie. Trump's "mercantilist" prescriptions to deal with that won't work for the rank and file in the US but that's the reality. Trump and his administration will not be dumping more money into Ukraine.
HarryM
(459 posts)As long as there is a Russian agent in charge.
Response to HarryM (Reply #18)
Post removed
Torchlight
(6,745 posts)Emrys
(9,090 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 4, 2025, 04:18 PM - Edit history (1)
Emrys
(9,090 posts)Emrys
(9,090 posts)All of them would prefer not to pursue this next phase without at least materiel support from the US. If necessary, they could, but it would be very difficult.
It may be distasteful, but it's a measure of statesmanship to make conciliatory noises while there's potentially a bigger prize.
It puts the ball back in Trump's court, and the international heat, never mind domestic, he's stirred up is significant. There are many hurdles along the road, so this isn't going to be a headlong uninterrupted plummet to capitulation. For one thing, Putin has to agree to a ceasefire. Then he has to actually observe it - which would be a first.
Meanwhile, the clock keeps ticking and Russia continues to gurgle down the tubes, despite Trump's best efforts.
As for the "minerals deal", it's only the bare bones of an initial agreement to pursue an agreement about an unknown quantity over an indefinite period. It may well never come to fruition. I imagine that's part of Zelensky's calculus, and why he should neutralize it as an obstacle.
misanthrope
(9,477 posts)is that once Putin's annexation of Ukraine is complete, Trump ain't jack in the way of minerals or anything else valuable.
Emrys
(9,090 posts)Most of the surveying of Ukraine's underground minerals was carried out by the Russians some 30 years ago. The resources won't have changed, but the technology to locate them - and the hurdles of devastation and unexploded ordnance that are in the way of retrieving them, never mind the continuing Russian threat - have.
Trump's chosen to make it a dominance symbol. Fine, sign the damn thing. The rest is more urgent. If Trump's still obstructive, then that will be no surprise, but it's one less threadbare excuse. Meanwhile, much of Europe and its allies are mobilized, and none of the leaders involved had any reason to trust Trump in the first place, and have far fewer reasons now. I doubt he'll catch anyone involved by "surprise" again.
Karadeniz
(24,742 posts)So WE CAN FLOOD THEM WITH OUR HATRED OF FORCING UKRAINE TO PAY REPARATIONS INSTEAD OF THE AGGRESSOR, PUTIN, WHO CAUSED THE SUPPOSED DEBTS.
Response to Karadeniz (Reply #20)
HarryM This message was self-deleted by its author.
HarryM
(459 posts)emb_us@mfa.gov.ua
superpatriotman
(6,861 posts)Art of the deal, indeed.
Mountainguy
(2,145 posts)Would be a win for Ukraine.
Lovie777
(22,819 posts)The new leader of the Free World.
Bread and Circuses
(1,941 posts)Russia has never fulfilled their existing legal agreements with Ukraine, and the US with Trump is also threatening to drop the Budapest agreement.
Never trust Russia or Rat Republicans.
stillcool
(34,407 posts)you may feel differently. I found this to give me a better understanding.
Inside The Ukraine-US Minerals Deal (It's Not What You Might Think)
Read between the lines. Or the fine print. Or both.
The agreement -- technically a framework for a deal, not an actual legally binding contract -- was hailed by US President Donald Trump as a “very big deal,” and he said it would “recoup” some of the billions of dollars of weaponry and aid Washington has provided Ukraine in its defense against Russia’s all-out invasion.
For his part, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who was in Washington on February 28 to sign the papers before the disastrous meeting with Trump scuppered the signing, described it as "framework agreement” and said it would help ensure US support for Ukraine’s continued fight.
It doesn't excuse the strongarm tactics or Trump's motivations, but it puts things in perspective.
stillcool
(34,407 posts)from cliffside
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20097130
By Zoya Sheftalovich
Putin offers to sell minerals to Trump, including from Russian-occupied Ukraine
The proposal comes as Kyiv and Washington negotiate a deal on critical minerals in Ukraine.
---------------
Russian leader Vladimir Putin told state media Monday evening, “We are ready to work with our partners, including the Americans” to access mineral reserves — including in Russian-occupied Ukraine. He also suggested Russia could resume selling aluminum to the U.S., saying Moscow was ready to supply “about 2 million tons to the American market.”
-Speaking in a televised interview after convening a meeting on development of the rare earth metals industry on Monday, Putin said Ukraine’s potential critical minerals deal with the U.S. “does not concern us” — but claimed Moscow had more to offer Trump than Kyiv did.
-----------------------------------------
On Monday, the EU offered its own minerals deal to Ukraine, with European Commissioner for Industrial Strategy Stéphane Séjourné pointedly saying during a trip to Kyiv: “The added value Europe offers is that we will never demand a deal that’s not mutually beneficial.”
so Putin on tv Monday, EU makes an offer on same day, Tuesday the article appears, and Friday it's the sh*t-show. Like they put on their dancing shoes for the Putin camera.
lame54
(39,637 posts)What they wouldn't allow him to say in the meeting
He looks reasonable
Trump will never go for it
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,019 posts)In the aftermath of Friday’s Oval Office debacle, Team Trump apparently expects Volodymyr Zelenskyy to beg for forgiveness — by some accounts, on camera.
The Trump White House presents Ukraine’s Zelenskyy with absurd demands.
— hateGOP (@hategop.bsky.social) 2025-03-04T19:18:15.322Z
In the aftermath of Friday’s Oval Office debacle, Team Trump apparently expects Volodymyr Zelenskyy to beg for forgiveness — by some accounts, on camera.
www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddo...
The Trump White House presents Ukraine’s Zelenskyy with absurd demands.
In the aftermath of Friday’s Oval Office debacle, Team Trump apparently expects Volodymyr Zelenskyy to beg for forgiveness — by some accounts, on camera.
Link to tweet
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trump-white-house-presents-ukraines-zelenskyy-absurd-demands-rcna194684
It’s not altogether clear exactly what Zelenskyy did that was so offensive — it apparently has something to do with his “body language” and fashion choices — but the bottom line remains the same: The White House doesn’t just expect the Ukrainian president to go along with administration’s agenda, it expects Zelenskyy to grovel.
While the Fox News report hasn’t been independently verified by MSNBC or NBC News, we need not rely on not-for-attribution comments from the West Wing. On the contrary, White House national security adviser Mike Waltz made multiple on-air appearances, insisting that Team Trump expects Zelenskyy to express “regret,” adding that this is what “we need to hear.”
As for the vice president who helped instigate Friday’s fracas, NBC News reported on JD Vance’s expectations for the road ahead.
Vice President JD Vance said tonight that Zelenskyy can return to the White House when he has a “serious proposal” for peace between his country and Russia. “There are details that really matter, that we’re already working on with the Russians. We’ve already talked to some of our allies. He needs to engage seriously on the details. I think once that happens then, absolutely, we want to talk,” Vance said in a taped interview with Fox News’ Sean Hannity.
The closer one looks at the comments, the worse they appear. To hear the Ohio Republican tell it, the White House has worked with Russia on details surrounding Ukraine’s future. He now wants Zelenskyy to come up with some kind of proposal, too.....
That outcome, evidently, is not in line with the White House’s expectations. Rather, Trump, Vance and their team have a different vision in which Ukraine’s president begs for forgiveness on camera, abandons its NATO ambitions, turns over access to his country's rare-earth resources to the United States, and rewards Russia with territory.
No wonder Trump, Vance and Zelenskyy struggled to get along.
mcar
(45,937 posts)He is reiterating his position, which has gotten lost in the performance art from last week.