19yr old DOGEbag, 1978 VISTA programming@ VA

[leighbythesea2]

“I wish I could have been a fly on the wall the moment a 19 year old DOGEbag got access to the VA system only to realize the VA still uses VISTA - a proprietary MUMPS-based programming language from 1978.”

Am not a programmer, but worked for a software company once & really enjoy reading their takes.

[SWBTATTReg]

1. Ha ha heh...they should have already known this, most of the Fed's computer systems are outdated, they never have

been updated since they were first put in. This was (and probably still is) looked at in the past, but the cost to redo this code into a modern language is astronomical. Thus, a lot of these systems are still written in code that I wouldn't be surprised many aren't around to code in, ASM, Pascal, Fortran, Basic (versions are a little more modern), RPG2, maybe SAS, C++, Java, Hypertext/HTMLetc. That's why so many older programmers probably can still land a job despite the fact that we're all getting up there in age (no new/younger programmers know these languages). And Muskrat should have known this too.

So, oftentimes the best solution is to rewrite in total these systems which is a far bigger thing to do, just can't rewrite millions of lines of code in a short timeframe. A lot more cost, a lot more testing involved. Of course, Moron the muskrat won't tell tRUMP this piece of news. He's too full of his giant ego to let someone else know that he doesn't know the coding involved...

Of course, the more used languages probably has a reservoir of users around still, COBOL, PLI, and of course one of the most important things to use w/ these older languages, is the job control language (JCL) detailing the input files, output files, and other job criteria needed to run the job, what DASD resources to use, what tables to point at (or files that the program(s) can refer to while running, etc.). DASD = Direct Access Storage Device.

[stopdiggin]

2. whatever the excuses put forward

(and not a coder here)
But the absurdity of the government still employing 50 year old code - is fairly self evident.
Whatever - the fix that is required ... Instead of kicking the can down the road for another 30 years ?

[MineralMan]

3. It's not only a software problem.

Not by a long shot. A lot of government hardware is also obsolete. It can't run software written in some languages at all, and compilers for some languages are not available for the hardware.

Yes, a software overhaul is needed, but that process is going to take years, and a nice big budget.

[haele]

9. Because the time and effort to transcribe millions of records

In a system that doesn't do much more than add (not manipulate) updates to an individual's record in a DBIII or Excel spreadsheet type report does not warrant investing in a new software system.
There's ways of porting the information into a cloud server, and that's all they need to do.
It ain't broke. It's really F'ing hard to break.
And the organization actually saves money having someone with basic coding knowledge to sit down and play sysadmin, than pay for yet another SoS program (looking at you, Adobe and Microsoft 360) they have to pay licensing, service fees, and maintenance for - on a very simple records database.
They can update the hardware and storage, no problem. They can convert ("print&quot and transmit the data to a cloud storage for other folks to be able to look and and create all sorts of reports from, or have AI scan, or whatever.
The software data doesn't just "degrade". If the code is good, the data is good.

They are also practicing records security that way. No one can get into the base code and records and change up a record to put in an "award" or disciplinary event early in an established career to change someone's "real time" data and re-write history to push a political narrative.

[Hugin]

4. I lay hands on and spend a moment of silence with my signed copy of...

“The C Programming Language” AKA “K&R C” in a ritual every week.

It’s almost like having an autographed Bible.

[Zorro]

5. Memory was precious in years gone by

In a past life I wrote programs in Fortran (good old Fortran!), assembler, and even microcode.

JCL handbooks are probably not easy to come by these days.

[Hugin]

6. Yes, working in bits and bytes...

Putting the world into 16 bits. I often mused about writing an autobiography with that title.

Memory management is a foreign concept to modern programming. There’s always more. Now the same is becoming true for processing. Most languages are interpreted and not very efficiently. Generative AI is the worst offender.

[TexasTowelie]

7. Testing? What's that?

When I was a state employee whenever a new program was to be implemented we ran through a full year of data in parallel to verify the results before shutting down the old program. With the urgency of saving every penny in the private sector they turn off the old systems when only a small sample of data is checked and things are supposedly fixed on the back end--if there is an analyst talented enough to discover the errors. GIGO is as prevalent today as in the past.

[yowzayowzayowza]

8. Replacement already in progress...

https://digital.va.gov/ehr-modernization/frequently-asked-question/

[jmowreader]

10. I've been there myself

I have MANY stories, some of which can't be told in polite company and others that aren't legal to tell, about us using ancient computers to do modern work. When you kids were ditching your IBM PC-ATs for 386s, 486s and Pentiums, I was still doing real work on IBM PC-XTs.

The government only replaces computers when they have to. Some private industry replaces computers on a regular basis to get the Newest and Fastest Thing so their PowerPoint slides pop up on screen a quarter-second quicker, but if you send a government agency a new computer they're more likely to create a new function for it to do.

[leighbythesea2]

12. Sweet talk

Even tho I do understand much of what you’ve described. I have an idea what COBOL is. The software company I worked for was in 1997. It was proprietary software used for textile design in the fashion industry. We had a fun team of programmers.
I came to really appreciate their outlook, humor everything. The system ran on Unix. It was incredibly expensive, but we sold a lot of it. Prior I had learned autoCAD on DOS using C prompt commands. And Photoshop on Apple. It made me a good candidate to use the software & sell it. The interface was not as nice as photoshop but not bad, and it was far more powerful.
I did learn a whole lot about updates, bugs, and beta testing. Fix a bug, break something else, you just don’t know immediately always what was broken.

[Jacson6]

11. Well they don't have to use the VISTA programming language.

The data is saved in a database system/files and that is what they need to access to get the data.

[Bantamfancier]

13. Sitting here just quietly laughing.

Cut my teeth on CPM. Worked my way thru the intel processors. Marveled at my first hard drive, a whole 10 MB! Shoot, I never put the screws back in the cover on my machine because I knew I would be back in there upgrading and replacing components soon.

Then I got a job on the IBM AS400 platform. Had a wall of reference books, I read every one.
Taught myself RPG, CL, and SQL.
Maintained older System 36 and 38s. Taught myself enough COBOL to be able to improve the existing code on them.

The beautiful thing about the platform was the backward compatibility. The hardware got bigger and faster but it would still run 40 year old code. As long as you had the source, you could recompile the programs so operating system software upgrades were no problem.

A lot of the IBM mini frames were in the financial sector. The logic in the code is as valid now as it was when first released. No need to rewrite it just because python or C# is sexier.

Yeah, I’m retired but if need be, I could be tempted to babysit if the money’s right.