Delta plane crash report offers latest findings on what happened at Pearson (Toronto) last month

[applegrove]

Delta plane crash report offers latest findings on what happened at Pearson last month

A preliminary report on the Delta plane crash at Pearson last month revealed new details on the harrowing, smoky crash that involved 22 Canadians.

Updated 15 mins ago

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/delta-plane-crash-report-offers-latest-findings-on-what-happened-at-pearson-last-month/article_c3db598f-4118-41a7-8053-9342beb9e87f.html

"SNIP...........

By Andy TakagiTransportation Reporter, Toronto Star

A preliminary report on the Delta plane crash at Pearson last month revealed new details on the harrowing, smoky crash that involved 22 Canadians, but did not draw any definitive conclusions on why the plane flipped on arrival.

The new Transportation Safety Board (TSB) report detailed how the Delta flight, bound for Toronto from Minneapolis, had its right landing gear break as the plane touched down on the tarmac, flipping the plane over and breaking off a wing. The broken wing spilled jet fuel along the snowy tarmac, at around 2:15 p.m. on Feb. 17 after several days of heavy snow.

The TSB’s preliminary report found there was an explosion outside the aircraft on the left wing, after passengers and crew had been evacuated. The cause of the explosion, the TSB said, has yet to be determined.

...........SNIP"

[cloudbase]

1. If I had to guess,

I'd say that once the starboard wing separated from the fuselage, the left wing still developed lift, causing a roll to the right with no way to arrest the roll, hence the flipover.

I'm not an accident investigator, but I am a pilot.

[yagotme]

2. Sounds logical.

In your "professional" opinion, would you say the jet appeared to be coming in a little "hot"? Seems the initial touchdown on the runway looked to be a little excessive, as far as vertical travel. A slightly weakened landing gear, a heavy landing, could have accumulated to the gear breaking, IMO.

[applegrove]

3. That is what the aviation expert on CNN, Soucy, said

on CNN. He told Wolf that there was some mysterious wind event that forced the plane down vertically, and onto the landing gear, hard.

[yagotme]

4. Air is a funny thing.

When it's still, it's "thick", and when it's moving, it's "thin" (as pressure goes). A wind gust, or consistent wind, giving the plane more lift, then hitting a "calm" patch, just prior to landing, could cause that effect, I believe. Or a heavy downdraft. It's amazing that there are as few air accidents as there are.

[applegrove]

5. I'm always amazed at how planes stay in the air. So many moving parts

and tons of metal landing on wheels during landings too. Such engineered wonders. Soucy mentioned wind events from other previous airplanes too maybe have created the hard landing. I guess that is equivalent to planes creating weather themselves.

[yagotme]

6. What's really fascinating, is to see some of the planes in combat,

how they've come back with so much damage, and can still land. There was a B-17 that flew a mission over North Africa, got rammed by a Bf 109, almost cut the fuselage in two, and made it back. The crew used the straps and line from their parachutes to help hold the rear of the airplane together, so when they got back to Britain, they couldn't bail out, and had to land.
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/articles/ww-ii-b17-survival-story.html

[applegrove]

7. My god. That sounds impossible.

[yagotme]

8. Impossible. Improbable. Unbelievable.

But it happened. Amazingly. Read a book about a British Spitfire pilot who got shot down over France, was making a crash landing, and the 4-barrel 20mm AA gun was still shooting at him. He lined up, fired a quick burst at the gun, and then landed. His German captors drug him over to the gun (he was dazed from the landing), and the next thing he knows, they're slapping him on the back, saying "Gut shot, Englander, gut shot!" One of his cannon shells had gone down one of the barrels of the AA gun, and had split it open like a banana peel. An "impossible" shot.

[applegrove]

9. Unbelievable. You remind me of my Dad who was

a military history buff.

He was 9 to 15 when his father was enlisted in WWII for Canada. When my grandfather was overseas my dad was on the swimming team at a private school. They told him his butterfly was his best, most competative time, but he wanted to race the freestyle so he put in extra hours in the pool every day. When you ask him how he felt about his father off on the front during WWII my dad would say "proud". Turns out all that military history and swimming were a coping method for his worry about his dad on the front when he was a kid. My dad was a very sensitive man. In his parents' house growing up, you took negative emotions and turned them into positive ones in the blink of an eye....... thus all the swimming and military pride both of which stayed with him until he was in his 80s.

[yagotme]

10. Yes, I read, and have read, a lot of military books.

Served 6 1/2 years in the Marines. Do WW2 reenactments, set up a display of arms/gear, answer questions, give demonstrations. People are amazed at the little piece of metal that can open a tin can (P-38, "John Wayne&quot .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-38_can_opener

Glad your dad had a good coping mechanism while his dad was away. An idle mind/body can self destruct, unless positive outlooks/outcomes are strived for.

[applegrove]

11. Mind and body. I like that. I keep my mind busy, i have to.

My body I ignore but should not.

Good that you can teach others. Admirable talent.

[yagotme]

12. Thank you. It's something I enjoy.

Seems that a lot of fairly recent history wasn't taught in schools, as I have kids and adults alike that don't know squat about the late 30's-mid 40's. Or events leading up to them.

[applegrove]

13. Which is why it took 80 years for fascism to rear its ugly head again. The people

who knew those horrifying stories first hand or directly from their parents had to lose power for things like eugenics and fascism to reappear.

[yagotme]

14. Yup. nt

[applegrove]

20. There was a military airbase near my dad's home when he was a kid. They had one of every plane in

WWII to train soldiers to recognize them. My dad and his friends would spend hours watching the planes and my dad would sketch them. By the end of the war he could identify all the planes, including the German ones they had in Ottawa, by the sound of their engines alone. They also made money by buying pop for the soldiers and biking it over to the airbase to sell to the soldiers being trained. Formative years in his life for sure as it would be for anyone at that age.

[yagotme]

23. When I was at admin school at Camp Pendleton,

helicopters would occasionally land on the parade grounds near our barracks. Got to the point where I could identify the helicopter by sound (USMC had 4 types at that time).

[applegrove]

24. I live between two small aircraft bases so, when Dad was alive,

we would see lots of planes including biplanes and other old ones. I inherited his love of the sky. I don't like flying but can relate to the poem High Flight in a metaphoric way.

[yagotme]

25. The old biplanes are really amazing.

Pieces of wood bound together with treated cloth and bailing wire, lol.

[applegrove]

26. Never been close to a biplane though we did go to an airshow and because dad had a handicapped

car card we arrived and quickly were waved to a parking spot right on the side of the tarmac. Front row seats to see Spitfires. It was a great day.

[yagotme]

27. Sure sounded like it. Love the Spit, too. nt

[Kid Berwyn]

18. Might be this B-17...

[applegrove]

19. Wow!

[yagotme]

22. Yes, story is at my link. nt

[cloudbase]

15. I haven't seen a video of the landing,

and I wouldn't try to make any determination as to approach speed based on that, anyway. The data recorder will tell the tale.

What I do know is that a good landing is the result of a stabilized approach attained before the final. Good downwind and base legs on the numbers (along with the "that looks about right" view out of the cockpit go a long way to a successful outcome. I consider myself sort of lucky that I did my initial training in gliders, where energy management is the name of the -game, because there aren't any go-arounds, so things have to be right from the get-go.

[yagotme]

16. I was making my observations on the vertical drop, not airspeed.

It just seemed the plane hit the runway pretty hard. This one shows it pretty good.
https://www.bbc.com/news/videos/c62k362dzzno

[cloudbase]

17. Thanks.

Looks like there wasn't much of a flare.

[yagotme]

21. Nope. Just a straight down descent. nt