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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPlease Attack Trump and Musk - Not Democrats. Please.
This is getting out of hand, I think. We all have common adversaries. Trump and Musk. We very much need to focus on them, rather than on the differences between Democrats and others on the left. We have much more in common than we have in conflict.
With the right, however, we all share the conflict. The enemy is defined. Let's fight that enemy, not each other.
We are not helping anything if we don't stop beating each other up.
GO AFTER TRUMP, MUSK, AND REPUBLICANS,. NOT FELLOW DEMOCRATS!
Thank you for taking the time to read this.
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Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...our situation is too dire for us to ignore opportunities to strengthen the overall Party.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)does Not strengthen the party. Not at all.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...than civilian calls for stronger representatives.
We do get to choose our leaders, after all.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Please.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)
Nixie
(17,980 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...but with a quick media search you should be able to find the verbatim interviews.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)he actually said. What did he say?
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...through his actions on the Senate.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)without knowledge of what he actually said. It seems you would want to be informed of all sides considering this unprecedented constitutional crises we’re in at this point. Just the fact that no one knows how Trump would interpret “reopening” the government seems enough to want to listen to all sides.
You actually illustrated very well what MineralMan’s thread is about: a focus/commitment on division. If you had to write here what you understood Schumer to say, you would see that his reasoning is not entirely flawed.*
*disclaimer that I’m not against new leadership, but if folks aren’t even going to bother with facts, then it’s obvious the division is a desired outcome.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)I said he's been doing talk shows.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)Apparently without listening to him on those shows.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)Did something change as you continued to reply?
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)Thank you for noticing.
AZSkiffyGeek
(12,744 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Which statement of mine are we discussing?
Nixie
(17,980 posts)I just opened the thread and read.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)You are attributing your own meanings to my clear individual statements based on your perceived meanings of other clear, individual statements.
That's weird, but to each their own, I guess.
Anyway, to be clear (again), in reference to my statement that schumer is doing talk shows (which it appears you were questioning me about), my meaning is that schumer is doing talk shows.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)words and implications. To be clear (again), you have multiple posts in this thread that are derogatory about Schumer. If you really meant that you were very happy about Schumer and his talk show appearances, then it seems you would have listened to him since you’re now implying you’re a Schumer fan after all.
Have you had a chance to actually listen to those talk shows so you can provide objective feedback instead of uninformed attitudes about him?
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)to them.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)I reserved my criticisms for his actions in the Senate.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)excuses for his vote when you never listened to them.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)can listen to them. So saying you don’t have TV has no relevance or meaning. Silly indeed.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)when you don’t know what his reasoning is for them because you refuse to listen.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...he seemed to think a game of 'bait of switch' would go unnoticed.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)Aren’t you negatively implying that Schumer is playing bait and switch games? But you refuse to listen to him.
So your main focus is not the situation we’re in with Trump's power grabs, but with criticizing Democrats. Hence my posts yesterday about the reason for MineralMan’s thread about attacking Republicans instead of Democrats. This thread has exposed a lot. 
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,469 posts)it has.
And many other threads, as well.
Mtnmama
(152 posts)Republicans are so powerful now because they are so united. To attack Schumer like others in democratic party are doing is harmful and doesn't make us stronger
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)The critics of Schumer's actions are supporting the position of the majority of Democratic Senators and Representatives.
MadameButterfly
(4,034 posts)the Democratic Party we get upset. There is honest disagreement in how to handle this situation; if we can't discuss it we aren't free.
Really, Trump isn't going to win because of debate about strategy among Dems. Or because voters are telling their representatives what they want.
He'll win if we think we have to keep silent at home and wish for something different but afraid to speak up.
Democracy is messy. Let's have democracy.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)The debate with the party is worrisome for Republicans. They would much rather that we all march in predictable lockstep. They would much rather we follow the moderates and the old guard. They well know how to beat them. It is the firebrands whom the Republicans worry about, because they know that if the firebrands get control of the Democratic party they are in big trouble.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)cogent and thought-provoking. Once you hand the keys over to this coup, they can interpret our government however they want. At least their transgressions and power grabs are still in recognizable aspects of our government.
Plus the courts! They are a recognized branch of government that is actively holding Trump accountable. We don’t want that shut down.
You are exactly right about them staying united and the harmful attacks on Schumer.
crimycarny
(2,089 posts)If Schumer had such "cogent and thought-provoking" reasons, then why did he come out so strongly against the CR only to do a complete reverse?
How can a leader say, "We are voting NO because this bill is so terrible?" The Democrats in the House vote "NO," and then Schumer says, "Oops, my bad. We need to vote Yes after all, and here is why."
He completely bungled the message and THAT is why there is division. The reasons for voting Yes, even if they are solid and reasonable reasons, got completely lost in the confusion of Schumer's about-face.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...gone against the united Democratic Party position of voting against the CR/cloture.
(Let alone the fact that the CR is unConstitutional.)
Nixie
(17,980 posts)vote, so it’s uninformed criticism of him. Your posts in this thread are derogatory about Schumer, but what’s weird is that you haven’t listened to his reasoning.
crimycarny
(2,089 posts)Schumer deserves criticism for his bungled approach to the CR. First coming out and stating he was a NO vote because the bill was "so terrible for the country". He let's the House Dems vote "no", then changes his mind and says "oops, my bad, I'm voting Yes after all."
I honestly think Schumer doesn't have it in him anymore to put in the work needed to not only fight but to come up with a strategy for going forward.
The OP is criticizing those who disagree with Schumer. Without mentioning what the people who disagree with Schumer are actually saying, does that mean that it’s obvious that division is a desired outcome of the OP? I don't think it is, but that is as logical as what you are saying. Virtually all of the Democratic Representatives and most of the Democratic Senators and the majority of rank and file Democrats are taking a position different than the one Schumer took. Is their reasoning, and the reasoning of those here who agree with them, entirely flawed?
Schumer:
Unless Congress acts, the federal government will shut down tomorrow at midnight. I have said many times, there are no winners in a government shutdown. But there are certainly victims: the most vulnerable Americans, who rely on federal programs to feed their families, to access medical care, and stay financially afloat. Communities that depend on government services to function will suffer, and suffer greatly.
While the CR bill is very bad, the potential for a shutdown has consequences for America that are much, much worse. For sure, the Republican bill is a terrible option. It is not a clean CR. It is deeply partisan. It doesn’t address far too many of this country’s needs. But I believe allowing Donald Trump to take even much more power via a government shutdown is a far worse option.
...
First, a shutdown would give Donald Trump and Elon Musk carte blanche to destroy vital government services at a significantly faster rate than they can right now. Under a shutdown, the Trump administration would have full authority to deem whole agencies, programs, and personnel “non-essential,” furloughing staff with no promise they would ever be rehired. The decision on what is essential would be solely left to the executive branch, with nobody left at agencies to check them. In short, a shutdown would give Donald Trump, Elon Musk, and DOGE, and Russell Vought the keys to the city, state and country.
Second, if we enter a shutdown, Congressional Republicans would weaponize their majorities to cherry-pick which parts of the government to reopen. In a protracted shutdown, House and Senate Republicans would pursue a strategy of bringing bills to the floor to reopen only their favorite departments and agencies, while leaving other vital services that they don’t like to languish.
Third, a shutdown is not a political game – shutdowns means real pain for American families. For example, veterans’ services. I believe a shutdown could cause regional VA offices to reduce staff, delay benefits processing, and curtail mental health services – abandoning veterans who earned and depended on those resources. Social Security and senior services: I believe a shutdown could greenlight Trump to slash even more administrative staff at Social Security offices – delaying new applications, benefit adjustments, and forcing seniors to wait even longer for the benefits they’ve earned. Extremely troubling, I believe, is that a shutdown could stall federal court cases – one of the best redoubts against Trump’s lawlessness. It could furlough critical staff, denying victims and defendants alike their day in court, dragging out appeals, and clogging the justice system for months or even years.
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/news/press-releases/leader-schumer-floor-remarks-on-avoiding-a-devastating-shutdown-that-would-empower-trump-and-musk
Nixie
(17,980 posts)that’s brought up. If you read what else was said, that poster who brought up Schumer admitted they never listened to Schumer.
Keeping in mind that we’re in an unprecedented power grab by the Executive branch of government, what would be wrong with listening to ways to block Trump’s games? Instead of focusing on attacking Schumer without knowing what his points were, just go listen to him. That doesn’t mean at all that no one else was listened to. It just means that the poster who brought up criticism of Schumer never listened to him.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Do you really expect us to believe that the OP's rant against other Democrats has nothing to do with the current controversies, especially the cloture vote on the CR?
People are disagreeing with Schumer. The OP and others are attacking them for doing that.
People are well familiar with what Schumer has been saying.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)be okay with Donald Trump interpreting for you what government looks like when it “reopens”. I don’t trust Trump, so I’ll listen to all perspectives.
“People are disagreeing with Schumer”. The point is that some people can’t be bothered to actually listen to him. So it looks like something else is behind the motivation in criticizing him.
Walleye
(44,688 posts)Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Democrats will always be blamed, no matter what we do. We get blamed for things we didn't do, and or things that didn't happen.
We are truly lost if we try to base what we do on the hope of avoiding blame.
"Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred.
"I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master."
FDR
Address at Madison Square Garden, New York City
October 31, 1936
https://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/documents/address-madison-square-garden-new-york-city-1
oldsoldierfadingfast
(247 posts)do a little deeper 'thinking again'. Play Devil's Advocate with yourself.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)on any of those talk shows.
This certainly is not on message for Democrats:
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html
----------------------------------------------
Nor did Schumer tell any audience,
Imagine the pile on if Joe Biden had misspoken so spectacularly.
PufPuf23
(9,823 posts)Nixie
(17,980 posts)leave the party and pretend that helps against Republicans.
Sanders should be warning voters not to throw their votes away because that’s what has directly helped the oligarchs.
I miss Biden, and you’re right, he would have been crucified over these misstatements.
MadameButterfly
(4,034 posts)He one of the best get out the vote politicians for the Democratic Party. His own Independent status doesn't change that.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)people to go Independent. That’s throwing your votes/power away.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)lapucelle
(21,051 posts) 
SocialDemocrat61
(7,568 posts)I mentioned that fact in another thread and was accused of bashing Sanders, being divisive and the reason democrats lose elections.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)
Autumn
(48,950 posts)good does sitting on our hands and complaining about Trump and Musk do? I say it does nothing . We can influence our politicians, the other party soesn't give a fuck what their own voters think.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)and the Social Security Administration cutting checks and processing applications deprived them of their grand moment to pump their fists in the air and yell "Resist!".
Many are the same people who sit out elections or vote third party to register their disapproval of Democrats. They never seem to take the fight to Republicans.
Had the government shut down, we would now be at that part of the program when the people who were shouting "Resist!" last week would be shouting "Do Something!" today.
And there would be nothing to do. The government would have stayed closed until Trump gave Johnson permission to open it.
Who would folks be blaming? Democrats. I can just imagine the MSM storyline: the hapless Democrats walked right into Trump's trap.
I'm grateful that cooler heads had the courage to cast that difficult cloture vote. That's leadership, and that's resistance at its finest.
.
betsuni
(29,042 posts)this and where was leadership and Schumer wants Trump to kill everybody would be so loud we'd have to wear earplugs to read DU.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)or voted third party, but they wanted to "Resist!"
And now the expectation is that Democrats rescue them once again from their shortsighted "Resistance!".
We warned them that this would happen. The day to "Do Something!" was election day, and the thing to do was vote for Democrats.
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)(or perhaps were quite deluded about the gravity of the 2024 election).
Democrats AND left-leaning Independents* would do well to educate their coalitions about how the Presidential election works in the US, and other important facts about voting and how the government ACTUALLY works (well, "stumbles along" might be a more accurate term, but that is closer to "works" than the chaos we currently have).
* by left-leaning Independents I mean the ones whose good intentions outweigh their narcissism.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)What is with trying to associate people here with those who "sat out" the election? Are you trying to smear people here?
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)If anyone is making an assumption, it is you yourself. I am referring to the people we seem to have in every election, that are too "pure" to vote for a flawed Democrat, no matter the many times greater evil that wins if the Democrat loses. (Edit to make it VERY CLEAR: people in general, not a subset of people who post at DU. Some may post at DU, I have no idea, but if they do they wouldn't be very open about voting 3rd party or sitting out, because it would violate the TOS.)
What is with trying to smear posters for something they didn't say?
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)I could be wrong and I am not trying to smear you.
The OP is clearly addressing people here. Other posters have conflated people here with non-voters and third party voters.
The post you responded to:
"We warned people what would happen if they sat out this election or voted third party, but they wanted to 'Resist!'"
Your post:
"Sadly, some well-meaning folks apparently don't know how US prez elections work."
My post:
"Irrelevant. What is with trying to associate people here with those who 'sat out' the election? Are you trying to smear people here?"
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)You wrote, in response to me: "What is with trying to associate people here with those who 'sat out' the election? Are you trying to smear people here?" Your question would be taken as an accusation by most people.
My statement was a general statement. I took the statement of the poster I was referring to, to be general as well. That is, targeted at the general voting-eligible public. Who, by the way, are easily misled into believing stupid things about how they should vote (or not), even if that is not the specific intention of someone who is trashing our Democratic candidates at a site like this or other places in the media or social media.
The point of the OP is that from a strategic standpoint we should focus far more on the failings and evil of our opponents, rather than helping to tear down Democrats. I agree THAT statement is directed at people here on this board. That doesn't mean that every response in support of the OP is specifically about people who post here. Mine was not, and you indeed made an assumption if you thought it was.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Sorry you don't like it.
"The point of the OP is that from a strategic standpoint we should focus far more on the failings and evil of our opponents, rather than helping to tear down Democrats."
That is a false accusation by the OP and it is a smear. You are agreeing with it.
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)like Schumer. It is not a smear because a) the premise that people here are writing negative things about Democrats true; b) it is a suggestion that it would be strategically more helpful to focus more on the evil of the Republicans.
Sorry if you don't like it, but that doesn't make it false or a smear.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Disagreeing with Schumer's actions and statements - which most Democrats have done - is not tantamount to people focusing on helping to tear down Democrats.
No one here is doing that.
If anyone is focusing on helping to tear down Democrats, it is the OP and those agreeing with him, as they tear down fellow Democrats right here, and by implication tear down the 212 Democratic members of the House, ad the 35 Democrats in the Senate, who disagree with Schumer's vote.
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)There are plenty of threads on this board where posters have accused elected Democrats of being weak and saying they need to step down. As if that would be helpful right now.
You are the one who is directly attacking posters on this thread. I'm done with you.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)We see it differently. I am more than willing to tolerate the moderates. Posts like the OP start the feud.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)on centrists/moderates, which is the majority of the party.
“Posts like this start the feud.” Thanks for being so obvious.
The blatant disregard for listening to Schumer’s reasoning could only mean the attacks on him are about something else, i.e., your “feud.”
The motivation for attacking Schumer is about the war on centrists/moderates? Quite the reverse. Pretty obvious. The thread was not started by someone criticizing Schumer, was it?
Blatant disregard for listening to Schumer’s reasoning? I posted his remarks.
My feud? I merely observed it. You are feuding right here with this, posting what you thought would be a clever "gotcha."
I suppose you want us to believe that you are not pushing a war on progressives with your remarks.
Some projection there.
Nixie
(17,980 posts)what it’s about, hence your projections.
You now bring up “progressives” and pretend this thread is about an attack on progressives. So you’re the one projecting. Progressives were never mentioned.
Welcome to DU. Btw. 
I wrote the word "feud" yes. So? That is what it looks like to me.
"Progressives we never mentioned." Correct. It would be much more honest if they were. Sort of like your "wink" after "welcome to DU."
Nixie
(17,980 posts)As I said previously, the majority of our party are just regular folks who don’t need this.
Who do you think the OP was criticizing?
What did you mean by "welcome to DU" followed by a "wink" emoticon?
I agree that Democrats don't need this, but I would point out that it is being driven by those who are going after people who criticized actions by Senator Schumer. Maybe that is it what the OP intended. Who knows? But it opened the floodgates for attacks on those who were critical of Senator Schumer.
Emile
(42,173 posts)agree.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)No one here sat out the election, nor argued in favor of sitting out the election.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)I don't believe, and I don't find it credible that you believe, that those arguing for a tougher stand on the CR would complain had the Democrats taken a hard stand on the CR.
There is not a chance in hell that would happen.
Some people just want to complain about Democrats. Period.
Walleye
(44,688 posts)lapucelle
(21,051 posts)Walleye
(44,688 posts)MorbidButterflyTat
(4,469 posts)The willful stubborn obtuseness is frankly sickening.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Think again. Please.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Bluetus
(2,737 posts)Few politicians act primarily on principle. Most respond to pressure. Asking us NOT to pressure the leadership that is refusing to fight for our democracy is asking us to not perform OUR role in this democracy.
If our criticisms hurt some feelings, then those politicians chose the wrong career path.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)lapucelle
(21,051 posts)The federal courts would be reduced to hearing only "mission critical" criminal cases, rather than the civil cases to which the Trump administration and DOGE are parties, the Social Security Administration would not be processing applications, the national parks would be closed, the Department of Education would be shuttered, the majority of federal workers would be furloughed with no guarantee to be brought back, and those federal employees kept on would be working without pay. And this is just a partial list.
How is any of that "fighting for our democracy"?
I prefer leaders who do not walk into obvious traps.
Bluetus
(2,737 posts)I don't know what movie you are watching, but Congress is lost and the courts are lost. The only thing remaining is public pressure.
Trump and Musk are shutting down the government on their terms, which is to say they are protecting the billionaires by shutting down the IRS and any regulators, while sending more money to defense contractors. They are killing Education (bye bye Pell grants) and Medicaid directly, and precipitating the failure of Social Security and Medicare. That is happening. We have a government shutdown in slow motion.
It would have been infinitely better to call the issue to a real confrontation, rather than give Trump yet another chance to normalize all of this illegal activity.
I guess many people here are determined to deny all of this until everything is gone beyond redemption.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)I’m not watching a movie. I’m part of the reality based community.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts) Nixie
(17,980 posts)points. So contrived. The courts are lost? Huh? Have they not seen the courts cranking out injunctions on almost all of Trump’s executive orders. They are all we have right now.
WyLoochka
(1,664 posts)The "tools" are - enough votes in the house and senate so we can win these show-downs.
That is where our focus should be.
Either decision was horrendously perilous.
No matter which was made people would say it was wrong. The backwards thrashing and hashing is NOT helping at all. It's freaking depressing. We have to go forward.
We got to that perilous place, where either choice was wrong, by OUR failures to get people off their butts in enough numbers to vote to win the house, senate - and future judicial/SCOTUS picks!
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)You are attacking those here who disagree with Schumer on this, and by extension you are attacking the majority of Democratic Senators and Representatives who did not support cloture.
Bluetus
(2,737 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 22, 2025, 09:59 PM - Edit history (1)
Denying that is is only going to guarantee the party disappears.
We have a clear choice now. Either get rid of the fossils that haven't had any bold ideas for 40+ years or else watch the Party evaporate before our eyes.
Every year, fewer people are willing to identify as Democrats, despite the fact that very large majorities want the policies we say we believe in. Let that sink in. What that means is that WE are the problem. WE have to change. We can't expect to be rewarded for being the adults in the room or always being the first to compromise.
We must approach this as a war for the very existence of our country. And unfortunately, the vast majority of our fellow citizens just don't care, and are never going to care until it is too late. That's a reality, but we cannot allow the Democratic Party leaders to also be fat, dumb and happy.
I believe the originator of this thread has the best of intentions, but we are way past that point. These leaders have been driving people away for 2 generations. We can't mount a comeback with this leadership.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)mcar
(45,966 posts)Bill Clinton? Jimmy Carter? Joe Biden?
You do realize this is Democratic Underground, right? 
Response to mcar (Reply #66)
Post removed
Gimpyknee
(1,025 posts)Perhaps the strongest House leader of our time.
Response to Bluetus (Reply #55)
Gimpyknee This message was self-deleted by its author.
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)policies our leaders have chosen. The problem is MESSAGING! And while I think the ways we word our messages are often weak, mostly I think the problem lies in our methods of messaging.
Our press releases are still on the mimeograph machines long after their bot farms have spread inoculating disinformation around the world.
CrispyQ
(40,937 posts)& interviewed a group of farmers, conservative guys who had all voted for Trump. They were angry about the tariffs & felt betrayed but when the reporter asked if they regretted their vote they all said no. The reporter reminded them of some recent ag bill that had passed in Obama's term, mostly due to the dems, & they all agreed it was a good bill they had benefited from, but one said "I'd never vote for a democrat, though," & the others all nodded in agreement. Then again, I would never vote for a repub. So to them, we sound the same. 
We need to take out that old Joe Conservative essay & ask the other side, what policies in here would you do away with? Safe meds? Clean water? Police & fire departments? How the fuck did so many people come to believe that the supposed "deep state" are the people who you buy your fishing license from?
I know recently they rebranded it Karen Conservative, but the original was Joe Conservative & it should remain Joe cuz the reason why we can't break that damned 53% of white women voting GOP is because they are tied to white men who only vote GOP. He's the one we need to break. Or we could just go for the non-voters. But Joe Conservative is a good way to show them what's at stake, too. Why the dems don't embrace it is beyond me.
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)them WHO is doing those right things for them. And WHO is screwing them blind.
These days, the messaging demands are different. Far greater, far more urgent. But in general, we really need to get on this.
CrispyQ
(40,937 posts)RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)If everyone else is so bad at it, you do it.
Polybius
(21,875 posts)Maybe the best Speaker ever.
Autumn
(48,950 posts)
stoned
(334 posts)within our party? How is it supposed to grow and be made better? Or is it currently perfect?
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)People in each state and congressional district decide who will represent them in Congress. In my state of Minnesota, we have elected two Democrats to the Senate. In the House, we elected a new Democratic representative last November.
I do not agree 100% with any of them on every issue. However, I support each of them 100% as my representatives in DC.
I have no say on any other federal legislative officials in any other state or district. I have to depend on those who live elsewhere to elect good Senators and House members. I'm sometimes disappointed with them. But I cannot elect different ones there.
The system is far from perfect. Elected officials are imperfect. But I am imperfect myself, so...
stoned
(334 posts)and allow it to have more appeal to a wider audience, and recruit larger numbers of voters, is that a bad thing?
We have to point out what's bad in order to improve it.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)"Nothing is perfect" is no excuse for not making necessary changes.
You are selectively supporting certain Democrats, and making false accusations against those with whom you disagree. You are not promoting unity, you are causing divisiveness. The "unity" you want is for everyone to either agree with you, or else shut up.
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)paleotn
(22,177 posts)Once you become all knowing and all seeing, then I might listen more. Otherwise, it seems like flailing. Careful who you hit while flailing. You may cause more damage than you intend.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)I believe that replacing Elected Dems who sow division in the party and vote for cloture on an unConstitutional CR (or even vote FOR fascist nominees) would be strengthening the Democratic Party.
paleotn
(22,177 posts)Acting on emotion tends to do that.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...considered the negative effects (all the facts) on the Democratic Party approval that his actions would have and still did what he did?
Talk about willingly damaging the Party's strength.
Response to Think. Again. (Reply #210)
Post removed
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)All of my posts after the first one were responses to other people's non-stop defense of a Democratic Snate Leader who assisted the republucans in passing an unConstitutional bill.
paleotn
(22,177 posts)Cirsium
(3,910 posts)There is no evidence that one side in this debate is "acting on emotion" nor "not taking into account all the facts" and the other is not. That is just a cheap shot at those with whom you disagree.
DENVERPOPS
(13,003 posts)Including those who have been asleep at the wheel the last 45+ years, which includes constructive analysis and criticism where due.
We no longer can have the luxury of operating with the "STATUS QUO" and "TAKING THE HIGH ROAD", or writing "STERNLY WORDED LETTERS"..... when we are fighting a group that has been using GUERRILLIA WARFARE TACTICS against the Dems, for the past 45+ years.................
doc03
(39,067 posts)the last century where there Republicans with loyalty to the country not to DJT.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Not for Republicans. Don't antagonize those who vote for Democrats. That's not smart.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...republican nominees and republican CR/cloture.
But I agree with you that we should only support those Dems who reliably vote along Democratic Party lines.
PufPuf23
(9,823 posts)I have voted reliably and exclusively for Democrats in every election for over 50 years. Never expect to change that pattern that voting habit.
Also have observed the Democratic Party repeatedly self-destruct as the USA drifts away, now a torrent, from the ideal of an egalitarian society. Accustomed to not seeing candidates that I favor in general election and see often see self-serving legislation that is not as bad and still favors special interests just different special interests.
It is ok for some Democrats to attack other Democrats but not for others to offer opinions to improve the Party or to point out hypocrisy.
senseandsensibility
(24,884 posts)My philosophy is to attack the administration and its enablers but to make constructive suggestions for Dem leadership as well, if it is warranted. I draw the line at belittling D's, name-calling, or anything else that is in no way productive. It would be nice if constructive criticism of some Dems were not necessary, but it is. Polls show that the majority of Dems are not happy with the way their leaders are fighting this administration. And they should speak up.
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
senseandsensibility
(24,884 posts)Really?
JonAndKatePlusABird
(368 posts)
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)If the vote for and with Democrats, they are tolerable.
xocetaceans
(4,431 posts)
soldierant
(9,345 posts)What they are ir pretty much what Democratic leaders should be and aren't. But you are still right that we shouldn't be attacking Democrats, and especially not publicly.
I don't have any problem with telling an elected in private that I didn't like that cote and if they are going to vote like that, I would support a primary to replace them. But I wouldn't put it ina letter to the editor or screm it on TV (or social media.)
If we are still blocking non-members (which we may be - I got a new computer this week and had to log on to get in), members may be under the impression that this site is private. But it can still be shared - and anyone can join.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)soldierant
(9,345 posts)Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Autumn
(48,950 posts)Well you're gonna love this.
https://time.com/7269604/el-salvador-photos-venezuelan-detainees/
What the Venezuelans Deported to El Salvador Experienced
Venezuelan Deportation to El Salvador
Philip Holsinger
by
Philip Holsinger
Reporting from San Luis Talpa, El Salvador
For more than a year, I have been embedded throughout El Salvador’s society, working on a book chronicling the country’s transformation. From the huts of remote island fishermen to the desk of the President, from elite homicide detective units to elementary school classrooms, I have interviewed government officials and everyday people, collecting stories that would shock Stephen King. I’ve stood in classrooms full of happy students which not long ago were empty, because children here once learned early that schools were places to be raped or recruited. I’ve interviewed killers in prison and sat with them face-to-face.
Inside the intake room, a sea of trustees descended on the men with electric shavers, stripping heads of hair with haste. The guy who claimed to be a barber began to whimper, folding his hands in prayer as his hair fell. He was slapped. The man asked for his mother, then buried his face in his chained hands and cried as he was slapped again.
After being shaved, the detainees were stripped naked. More of them began to whimper; the hard faces I saw on the plane had evaporated. It was like looking at men who passed through a time machine. In two hours, they aged 10 years. Their nice clothes were not gathered or catalogued but simply thrust into black garbage bags to be thrown out with their hair.
They entered their cold cells, 80 men per cell, with steel planks for bunks, no mats, no sheets, no pillow. No television. No books. No talking. No phone calls and no visitors. For these Venezuelans, it was not just a prison they had arrived at. It was exile to another world, a place so cold and far from home they may as well have been sent into space, nameless and forgotten. Holding my camera, it was as if I watched them become ghosts.
Sending people to prison with no due process is something you actually want to happen to American citizens because you don't fucking like them? Nice to know where you stand.
Bread and Circuses
(1,997 posts)Elected Democrats who have voted with the republicans, etc.
It’s because we have donated and volunteered over many years to Dem Candidates.
Now, some hide .
We lead leaders who advocate for freedom and take their oath of office literally.
“ I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same…”
I’ve taken this oath several times as I’ve worked in government. I honor it and stand by my oath.
I shall Defend the Constitution. We expect elected Dems to do the same.
Thanks.
Celerity
(54,325 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Attacking Trump, Musk, and Republicans.
Do something useful..
iemanja
(57,750 posts)There are TOS created by the administrators. They are in charge, not you.
Celerity
(54,325 posts)crimycarny
(2,089 posts)I'll criticize Musk and Trump and I'll call out Dems when I think they screwed up.
My biggest issue with Schumer is his abrupt about-face and his bungling of messaging his "yes" vote and the reasons why.
Schumer, at a minimum, should have kept tight-lipped about how he would vote. Instead, he made a big deal about voting "No" because the bill was so horrible and would be terrible for the American people. You can't say you are going to vote "NO" because something is so terrible, only to change your mind and vote Yes and not expect people not to be completely confused and feel a sense of betrayal.
erodriguez
(911 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)That's who I am. More than that you do not need to know.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)The suggestion that those with whom you disagree are not attacking Trump, Musk, and Republicans is patently false.
Autumn
(48,950 posts)critisize that person too. Anyone that works with Trump is fair game AFAIAC
Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Post removed
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Wow!
William769
(59,147 posts)Yes we need to go after trump/musk. We also need to make sure that our Democratic leaders are doing the same. At this time they are not. Also I have been trying to back away from the Schumer debacle and I just can't.
I guess what I'm saying is, I can walk & chew gum at the same time.
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)
Skittles
(171,556 posts)WE DEMS CAN MULTI-TASK
William769
(59,147 posts)
mcar
(45,966 posts)actions or inactions isn't a problem. But saying Democrats are spineless, corrupt, useless - things I see here on an hourly basis - isn't criticism, it's bashing. And it doesn't help.
Someone on this thread said we haven't had any Democratic leadership in 50 years - which is patently ridiculous.
To me, it's not genuine criticism, it's the hatefest against Democrats that is exhausting. All the while, Mump is destroying the country.
William769
(59,147 posts)And if you seen my posts around DU you would notice I don't bash Democrats but I do hold them to a higher standard being our elected representatives. I do ave to admit I did Bash Schumer the Day of the CR and probably the day after. Also I do not believe calling for new leadership as in the case of Schumer is not bashing, it's trying to get the right person in the right position.
I was proud of all our House members & how they stood firm over the budget. that's leadership.
I hope I don't sound to loopy yet I just took some morphine for my back. SO I better stop here.
Love ya. 
mcar
(45,966 posts)And therein lies the difference. I also think we need new leadership in the Senate.
Hope your back feels better. 
William769
(59,147 posts)
Thank you mcar.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Can we say any of those things about Manchin? Sinema? Menendez? Lieberman? Blagojevich?
mcar
(45,966 posts)Of course saying Menendez is corrupt isn't an issue - he is and has been charged and convicted for his crimes.
I'm talking about the generic "Dems suck" narrative that plays out here constantly. It is not productive, not true, and doesn't help. Especially while the country is being destroyed by sociopathic Nazis.
It's like complaining that a Democrat didn't say the words you want to hear while your neck is on the Mump chopping block.
So it is only when they are in office that we are allowed to offer criticism?
There is no generic "Dems suck narrative that plays out here constantly."
A Democrat didn't say the words I want to hear? What are you taking about? How about the words that most Democratic Senators and Representatives said, the majority, those who disagree with Schumer? Can we agree with them?
mcar
(45,966 posts)but you're not seeing what I'm seeing apparently.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Those vague charges get repeated over and over again. They are designed to malign and discredit those on one side of the ongoing debate within the Democratic party in a less than forthright fashion.
If you disagree with the majority of Democratic party legislators and voters who are calling for a more roubust resistance to the administration, make your case. But vague broad brush smears are not helpful.
If and when people are saying the things you are complaining about, respond to them directly.
Bengus81
(10,141 posts)Don't say a word and keep a stiff upper lip I guess? Nah..........
William769
(59,147 posts)I think you have been long enough to know the T.O.S. of this site.
In stead of throwing out something you hope will stick, just read the T.O.S.
Have a good day.
Bengus81
(10,141 posts)Yeah...have a good day yourself.............
William769
(59,147 posts)Bengus81
(10,141 posts)Next time Chucky is TOLD by MAGA Republicans the "ball is in your court" to keep Gov open no matter what they stick in a bill I guess we'll see the same gang of ten vote the same even if this time massive cuts to SS and Medicare are on the block.
William769
(59,147 posts)Again, that is not bashing, That's advocating taking someone out of a leadership position that shouldn't be there for the good of our party.
I don't know what gotcha moment your trying to catch me in, but I guess good luck with that.
Now I'm done.
Dem4life1970
(1,056 posts)Yes we can primary anyone we want. That is okay. But you make an excellent point, don't take our eye off the ball. We know who the real enemy is, never forget that. Make recommendations, advocate your position, for sure, but join the circular firing squad and advance the MSM "Dems in Disarray" talking points? Count me out.
Blue Full Moon
(3,449 posts)Evolve Dammit
(21,761 posts)mcar
(45,966 posts)lapucelle
(21,051 posts)Nor is he on a tour to rally potential candidates to run against Democrats.
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/20/us/politics/bernie-sanders-democrats-independents.html
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)I guess holding elected officials accountable is a GOOD idea after all.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)responding to their constituent concerns.
An added bonus would be that folks would stop getting daily emails and texts asking for money to pay for the national tour.
NB
One of the wonderful things about the internet is that anyone confused about the meaning of words like "postpone" or "constituent" can look them up online.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...to speak to people that are not their constituents also, but I might be mistaken.
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)but that fine because some publicity tours are OK, but others aren't?
At least Senator Schumer wasn't sending me emails asking me to pay for his tour.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Are you bashing Dems?
lapucelle
(21,051 posts)Address your concerns to them.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,469 posts)
BlueKota
(5,323 posts)and their cult. I also support any Democrat who also speaks out loudly and critically against them.
In my opinion though history teaches that appeasement and trying to bargain with a lunatic dictators is almost never a winning strategy. Much of the base clearly want our leaders to find a stronger stance against tsf than what we have been seeing from them. What good will winning some Independents and former Republicans do, if they loose the core of Democratic base, who clearly don't want out leaders doing anything to support the tsf and Eloon's destructive and cruel agendas.
Escape
(457 posts)are trying to do everything possible to stop Trump and save the country, but they have different ideas about strategy.
We need to support their efforts while continuing to express our opinions, respectfully.
(People like Sen. Fetterman deserve no support from us).
I ask my frustrated Democratic friends "and what exactly would you do?" ...to stop the madness.
I haven't heard a solution yet.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Cirsium
(3,910 posts)You are choosing which Democrats to support. "People like Sen. Fetterman deserve no support." Why can't others?
If you have "not heard a solution yet" from those arguing against voting with the Trump administration's nominees and the cloture vote you are not paying attention.
"What exactly would you do?" has been thrown at dissidents in every struggle for progressive change throughout history. It was thrown at the Abolitionists, organized Labor, Civil Rights activists.
So what exactly would I do? Vote against everything the Trump administration proposes; suspend any and all; attempts at bipartisanship; stop bashing or ignoring the majority of elected Democrats and Democratic voters who are calling for a stronger fight back.
Demsrule86
(71,542 posts)who voted for a bill that cut help for needy kids and expanded Musk's power should be primaried. Should they win and end up in the General, they have my vote because anyone beats a Republican in my book, and in order to save our Republic, we must elect Democrats. We need to get over the idea that the Senate is where compromise happens...because we are always the ones that give in and that has to change.
Democratic rank and file need to feel that their elected have their back. And are more concer ed with their welfare than reaching across the aisle as if that even has meaning in Trump's Amercia.The Senate is not a gentleman's or a gentlewoman's club anymore. It has to be a fight for what is right and that can not be compromised. Trump is evil and is looking destroy this country...we must stand in unwavering opposition. It would have better to have a shutdown than to help pass the bill.
BlueKota
(5,323 posts)
Kashkakat v.2.0
(1,940 posts)took action, went to Illinois in order to stall the vote. Forget how long they were gone, it was quite a while. I dont think that tactic works in todays situation - repubs now just gonna do what theyre gonna do regardless of rules, law, constitution.
However my point is - I remember one of the Dem senators saying that it was we protestors who inspired them, by our daily constant 24/7 presence in and around the capitol. How theyd be in their office and see so many of us out there circling around the capitol day in and day out. That they would have been unlikely to fight back had we not lit the fire under them to take action. My point is, we have to have their back and it's WE the citizens (including myself) who have to do more than just sitting here typing away at my laptop and criticizing what other people are not doing. I think it was Thom Hartmann who said that leaders dont really lead, they like to get out in front of a parade that is already happening.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Well said. The politicians represent us. We need to give them something to represent.
Gore1FL
(22,942 posts)Choose your targets better.
The OP falsely claims that this is about supporting Democrats versus criticizing Democrats. It is not. It is about which Democrats he supports, and rather than making that case he instead attacks the Democrats with whom he disagrees and implies that they are hurting the cause.
iemanja
(57,750 posts)If any Democrat collaborates with fascism, they are part of the problem. You seem to be loyal to a party name. I care about what it does.
J_William_Ryan
(3,482 posts)Agreed.
Attacking Democrats – Senator Schumer, for example – is ignorant and wrongheaded, benefitting only Trump and Republicans.
flashman13
(2,375 posts)Democrats need to fight or get out of the way. The 10 Democrats that voted for the CR are who I'm talking about. They should all face younger, tougher Democrats in the next primary elections (if there are any future elections).
InAbLuEsTaTe
(25,518 posts)
SSJVegeta
(2,826 posts)(As a general role).
That being said, the attacks on the corruption within the parties -and the entire system though? Pointing out specifically who is fighting for you, who isn't, and who is fighting against you (hint: It probably isn't a democrat attacking you), would probably be helpful.
The fundamental, common sense acknowledgement that the system isn't working for millions of people and we need radical change in policies helping the working class, protecting democracy and ending corruption? Those messages need to be blasted at the highest decible, through all avilable channels 24/7 by as many people as possible. And if the party leadership won't do this, we have to count on the ones who will.
Oopsie Daisy
(6,670 posts)
kimbutgar
(27,228 posts)It’s seems some Democratic voters have forgotten.
And they are ok with an immigrant billionaire buying the presidency of the US. The orange Hitler is elons bitch!
bdamomma
(69,526 posts)is in that equation too.
When We lead they (our Party) will follow. Let's just remember we have the power.
The regime is trying to divide us, do not let them do this. 
Emile
(42,173 posts)Great point.
So the OP should not attack the majority of Democratic party reps and voters who might disagree with Schumer?
chowder66
(12,217 posts)I recommend the website below. You can sort the columns.
ProgressivePunch is a non-partisan searchable database of Congressional voting records, from a Progressive perspective. This page is like Schrodinger's cat – it's both being updated and it isn't. How is this possible? The process described on the "What is a Progressive Score" page (link) continues to operate—the algorithm continues to function, scores are updated nightly when Congress is in session, and the Progressive Cohort is being updated annually. We will continue to do that in the future. However, detailed narrative vote descriptions were discontinued several years ago, so results under "Search by Issue" are not available for recent sessions of Congress.
https://progressivepunch.org/scores.htm?topic=&house=senate&sort=crucial-current&order=down&party=
alarimer
(17,146 posts)I think criminals are fair game (Menendez who was caught with his hand in the cookie jar, yet somehow got elected anyway), those who treat women badly (too many to list), and those who are bad people generally, like Mayor Adams.
I don't think cheerleading ineffective Democrats is effective either. I'm a little sick of the complaints, honestly. Too many are simply sitting on their hands (or complaining about "activists" which is equally maddening).
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Are you not going after Democrats with your post?
Which Democrats are we allowed to agree with and what actions are we allowed to take exception to? On the CR cloture vote, for example. Must we agree with minority leader in the Senate, with the ten Senators who voted for cloture, or is it OK if we agree with all of the Democrats in the House (minus one) and the 45 Democratic Senators who voted against cloture?
Gimpyknee
(1,025 posts)betsuni
(29,042 posts)speaking things that aren't true to those without power (oh, how they get mad when realities of politics like minorities and future Supreme Court appointments are mentioned!) Constructive criticism means character attack a lot of the time ("No, no, no, calling Democrats evil corrupt complicit Vichy Dem scumbags is a totally fair criticism!" ).
Fine, go ahead and replace the whole Democratic Party (thinking you're punishing them, HA!). Knock yourselves out. The world will be the same, same complaints and anger about being disappointed when the populist saviors fail as they always do. The most important thing is being the innocent morally pure victim around whom the world revolves. Poor you!
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,469 posts)
mahina
(20,633 posts)Wodin56
(6 posts)I get the need to focus on Trump, Musk and the MAGA's.....But and I mean a big But we also have to win the Midterms and Schumer and the cowardly nine have demonstrated cowardice and failure. Then Sheldon Whitehouse shouts that the solution is making Jeffries the Speaker and Schumer the majority the Senate Leader....That crap won't fly won't result in majorities in either chamber. Dems need to accept that the MAGA's will continue to "Jam" us over and over and so far the Dems have no solutions...They need time to fight and bee seen fighting or they'll be losers in the midterms.
pinkstarburst
(2,018 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 23, 2025, 09:07 AM - Edit history (1)
that state that the 2028 candidate can only be a straight white protestant man, I will continue to point out flaws with the straight white male protestant candidates that I am seeing.
I don't like seeing qualified female candidates, Jewish candidates, black and brown candidates, and gay candidates dismissed, and on DU of all places. In fact, I just saw a whole thread full of these posts, saying a brown woman can't be president. Disgusting.
Have a nice day.
Gimpyknee
(1,025 posts)There are far more deplorables out there that even Hillary Clinton imagined.
RandomNumbers
(19,149 posts)But unless the candidate who isn't straight white male has phenomenal charisma (Obama level or better), I'm going to vote with reality this time.
It absolutely disgusts me that I live in a country so misogynistic and hateful that I have to think that way. But I saw enough Trump signs in my neighborhood last fall that I finally woke up. I'll take the decent white male Democrat over the disgusting POS republican any day.
And note, there are issues extremely important to me, where Democrats as a party Absolutely. Suck. But I look at the whole picture, and the way elections work in this country, and that means I have to vote for the party and the candidates that will at least give us the best chance to stumble in the general direction of a cleaner environment and better society.
Littlered
(347 posts)Why is race, gender, or religion so important to you (and many others here) when it comes to candidate support? I see this a lot, and I am somewhat baffled by it. Thanks.
pinkstarburst
(2,018 posts)Which is why I will continue to fight against the people who have already decided that we cannot have anyone except a straight white protestant male in 2028.
Renew Deal
(85,095 posts)And burying our heads in the sand won't resolve them.
bdamomma
(69,526 posts)don't do this they want to divide us. We must unite and we know that this filthy regime wants to break us.
DON'T LET THEM!!!!!!!
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)His failure to keep a united stand against the fascists was damaging to our Party!
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Democrats should not be voting for any Trump nominees. That is how the Republicans divide us.
BunkieBandit
(133 posts)But we do not elect them Speakers. Even so, why can't we be critical of any elected official? Does that make the repukes stronger when we criticize our leaders? Hardly.
Nanjeanne
(6,570 posts)powerful and compassionate and bold.
The politicians are not my parents and I am not a child. I get to expect more from the people I pay who are asking me to keep them in office. I don’t have to obey them. I have to want them to stay in their jobs to keep representing what I want from them.
Not every Democrat who runs will fit that bill and I understand I will not admire every politician with a D next to their name. But I also understand that no politician with R next to their name will get my vote and I have no expectations that I can move the needle. There are people on this board who are Democrats but they are very different than me in what we might want for this country. But we are all, at least I believe, interested in justice, humanity and small d democracy. It is our common thread even if we think differently about a candidate or a policy.
But I do expect that any Democrats asking for MY vote is subject to my approval or disapproval. And if I can move the needle I will try. If they cannot represent me then I can look for a Democrat who does. Therefore I will continue to express my admiration or my disappointment for any Democrat politician that wants something from me.
To want something for my vote is not bashing. To believe a different strategy is warranted is not bashing. To believe another voice is a better way forward is not bashing. My vote counts. And so does my voice.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)BlueKota
(5,323 posts) leftstreet
(40,491 posts)Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Thanks for that.
pat_k
(13,328 posts)Authoritarians win when the opposition factionalizes.
We don't have to like all our allies in the fight against 47's authoritarian take over, but let's stop pointing the guns of our rage at them. We need to WORK Together.
And we need MORE, not fewer allies. We may be bringing people into the pro-democracy battle who hold notions we don't like at all. Let them be wrong on shit that isn't relevant to this fight. Maybe they'll come around, maybe not. But let's not shove them out of the fight for the preservation of the American values that have driven every decent thing we have ever accomplished as a nation.
Lift up the leaders you believe are doing the right thing. Lobby others to do the things you think are right, but if they do not, recognize that they are still our allies in this fight.
Please, please, find ways to focus your energy on the battle against 47 and every person loyal to him. Express disappointment when our allies let us down, but for goodness sake, don't LIVE and waste your energy on self-righteous anger at them. Extend a little grace.
Think. Again.
(22,456 posts)...focusing our energy on the battle against 47 and every person loyal to him!
We must have our best people in leadership, nothing less will do, and if current leaders won't hear our calls to fight, others will need to lead.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)The guns of our rage should be pointed in the right direction, at authoritarians and at those who cave to, compromise with, and enable authoritarians, and those who fail to fight back on our behalf.
Authoritarians do win when the opposition is divided, and the cause of that division is Democrats who vote for Trump nominees, and who voted for cloture on the CR thereby going against the majority of their colleagues and voters.
The attempt to defend or justify Schumer's vote have fallen flat, so now people are resorting to maligning the critics of his vote.
Bettie
(19,655 posts)Just a pretense that every thing is AWESOME!
I'm sure that level of delusion will serve us well. 
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)Our Democracy is failing.
I swear, when they cart us all off to Guantanamo, these guys will be telling everyone in the plane that our Democratic leaders are doing everything that can be done, exactly as it should be done, and we're just bad Democrats for suggesting differently.
SunImp
(2,698 posts)Many rec'ing this op would be fine if it was directed only at Democrats/independents critical of the party leadership. Leadership is always blameless to their eyes.
Emile
(42,173 posts)SocialDemocrat61
(7,568 posts)I really don’t remember anyone saying that Manchin and Scinema shouldn’t be criticized for their actions
HereForTheParty
(915 posts)It's hard to read your OP any other way.
erodriguez
(911 posts)The current leadership isn't made for this moment
Autumn
(48,950 posts)
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)Autumn
(48,950 posts)i don't see why I need to protect elected politicians. We Democratic voters make sure they are well taken care of.
SunImp
(2,698 posts)They haven't directly attacked Democrats sure, but they know how to use weasely words to bash & mock anyone critical of party leadership. Leftists Dems, Gillibrand or independents that caucus with Dems it doesn't matter. Can't criticize the top dogs of the party. They get away with all this elitist mean girl attitude because they've grouped up and successful pushed good people out of this space. They say all the time that leftist Dems hardly attack Republicans, but I've only ever seen these guarded Duers attacking AOC or others like her all the time.
Patton French
(1,824 posts)NT
Scrivener7
(59,441 posts)I will continue to desperately beg for that as I watch our Democracy implode.
AllyCat
(18,810 posts)Just letting this happen and not speaking out.
Opbrg
(118 posts)JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)ignoring the fact that the voting public bear part of the responsibility because enough of them decided either not to bother to vote or vote third party, and gave the majority of both houses and the WH to where we are today.
The strategy of "do everything I want or I will take my marbles and go home", is a sure way to continue to lose.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Blaming someone is a good way to isolate yourself from the real cause.
It's rarely useful, though.
Schumer explained his reasoning his vote. I don't agree with it, but he isn't from my state, so I have no influence on him.
JohnSJ
(98,883 posts)speakership, and how that would sure show them.
Few considered that his replacement would be far worse, and ron johnson is far worse.
RazorbackExpat
(938 posts)Charles Schumer, for one 
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)RazorbackExpat
(938 posts)He caved with the CR. Good luck to AOC 
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)As for the CR, I'm not a fan of shutting down the government, to tell you the truth. Too many bad results can come from that.
So, I have mixed feelings. However, Schumer will remain in the Senate until he doesn't win an election. So, there it is. Again, I'm not living in NY state.
RazorbackExpat
(938 posts)In fact, I'm not even living in the USA. But as an American citizen, I still want Democrats to fight for me and mine. And Charlie Schumer is not that fighter.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)It might be good for everyone to go look it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Schumer
RazorbackExpat
(938 posts)Schumer caved to Trump. AOC is a fighter, Schumer isn't. It's time for Dems to start kicking ass.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Response to RazorbackExpat (Reply #192)
RazorbackExpat This message was self-deleted by its author.
betsuni
(29,042 posts)MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Oh, well.
He has a long, and very positive history in the Senate. But, it takes a long view to see it. Meanwhile, SQUIRREL!
hay rick
(9,587 posts)The infighting is counterproductive. It uses up the energy and focus that could be more usefully spent on resistance. The infighting also provides fuel for the "Divided Democrats" frame that the complicit media cherishes. All the divided Democrats stories shift blame for the Musk/Trump depredations to Democrats for not doing enough to prevent the abuses. These stories have the predictable effect of discouraging people from doing what they are able to do in favor of complaining about what others in more powerful positions are not doing on their behalf.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)I appreciate your reply.
Buddyzbuddy
(2,543 posts)Emile
(42,173 posts)
wryter2000
(47,940 posts)I have totally written off Ayman on MSNBC because so much of the show is about how Dems are lame/stupid/complicit.
peggysue2
(12,528 posts)Splitting the Democratic Party is right out of the Republican/Fascist playbook. Let's not help them do it!
The 'enemy' is, indeed, well-defined and clear in its intentions.
Once we survive this, we can go back to acting like barn cats, screeching over policy ideas and directions, who should be elected/who should be thrown out, yada, yada.
But we're not in that place. Our house is on fire and we need every Democrat on the fire line.
Focus is the word of the day and the word of the continuing battle. Focus on the authentic enemy.
Otherwise, we'll defeat ourselves.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)
C Moon
(13,626 posts)It's true.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)in many ways at some point.
LetMyPeopleVote
(179,405 posts)We need to fight Musk and trump. Attacking other democrats only helps trump and musk
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Buddyzbuddy This message was self-deleted by its author.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)This is not about Schumer. It is not about discussing things. It is about Democrats supporting Democrats more than we support members of the other party. It is about keeping the party together so that we might be able to regain power in the federal government. It is about taking on the other side and holding them to account.
I have nothing to do with hiding posts. I do not even alert on posts that attack me, personally. Instead, I reply to those.
Frankly, we are in the battle of our lives right now. What the Republican party has turned into is frightening. There are enormous risks right now that could destroy the very fabric of our nation.
So, stick around. Discuss whatever you think needs discussing. But, be aware that there are others here for whom the danger from the right way overpowers any possible dangers from our own side. If we do not stick together and act together, we're going to lose.
This is not about Schumer. He has been elected and re-elected many times by his constituents in New York state. He has risen to leadership in the Senate. He recently made an unpopular move with some Democrats. But, he has a long history that has gotten him into leadership. That history is well-known by many of us, but maybe less known than it should be by some. You can read it all at the link below:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Schumer
DU is not made up of people who all have exactly the same point of view. But, we all share the important principles. Stick around. Don't go away. If anything, participate more, not less.
Cirsium
(3,910 posts)Everyone here is supporting Democrats more than we support members of the other party, to say the least.
Everyone.
Your unfounded insinuation that those with whom you disagree are not supporting Democrats more than they support Republicans is simply ludicrous.
No one here is expressing support for the Republican party at all.
No one.
What you are doing is highly divisive and destructive.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Cirsium
(3,910 posts)You are saying that there are people here expressing support for Republicans? That is a pretty serious allegation. You must know that it is false.
The only time I see that happening the poster is quickly banned.
Buddyzbuddy
(2,543 posts)After a well received suggestion, I thought it better to self delete my original response to this post.
I believe we agree on more things than we disagree about and that's the beauty of our party.
I will only reiterate I respect some of what Schumer has done in the past and for that reason I don't think he needs to leave the Senate but I don't think he's the right person for his leadership position at this time. We need a fighter but his experience would be most welcome as council to a new leader. A better, passionate communicator. His predecessor Harry Reid was the same way and he was an actual fighter. We Democrats have lost too many battles that we should have won including SC nominees. We, as a party can't sustain many more of these losses. The voters following us, the youth are growing frustrated and with good reason. They are most impacted by these new policies. Educational costs through the roof, not to mention the school loans and homeownership out of reach for many. K thru 12 is now on the chopping block. How many rights and privileges that we've taken for granted will they not have?
How can we expect them to follow in our footsteps and grow the party. We need to fight and inspire and we under Schumer's leadership are doing neither.
Peace, everybody.
DownriverDem
(7,011 posts)I question those who do? Our battle is with trump/Vance/musk. Why hurt the Dems?
Martin68
(27,656 posts)LetMyPeopleVote
(179,405 posts)
awesomerwb1
(5,093 posts)He has failed massively twice in less than 2 months. TWO months.
First, the Laken Riley Act. He voted to advance the bill because the Reps told him they would allow amendments. None were allowed, (SHOCKER) but the Reps voted for theirs to make the law even worse. Childish mistake.
THen the CR.
Schumer is weak, he can't speak, he can't lead and he's in the pockets of wall Street. Enough. He needs to go yesterday.
Nanjeanne
(6,570 posts)on which Democrats in Congress they approve of and which Democrat in Congress they think are not representing their personal beliefs, policies and desires. It also seems to me that is the very essence of small d democracy.
It also seems that other Democrats posting here believe that no expression of anger or discontent should be allowed or worse that expressing that is somehow hurting the Democratic Party. A valid point for those who believe that way and certainly they should be allowed to express their total approval of their Party. I would never tell them not to. I would expect the same in return. That seems to be the sticking point.
But this is a message board. Expressing disappointment or anger at a politician - even in the party we all ultimately support over a Republican - is not going to hurt anything. I have no inflated belief that an expression on DU of not appreciating a politician’s vote is going to make the next election a slaughter. I do think blindly obeying every decision some politician makes is much more detrimental to a winning strategy but again I don’t think expressing that on a message board is going to hold much sway either way.
I do find it strange, however, that somehow being a “good” Democrat for some requires total support of every Democrat when quite clearly the Democrats in Congress also have different policy platforms, etc. To me — being a “good” Democrat is standing up for what I want and believe the party could and should be. That may be different than someone else’s desired platform and they too should stand up for what they want. I want Medicare For All. Someone else prefers our money going towards subsidies to allow the ACA to help people buy private insurance. Both are better than anything a Republican will offer but I know which one makes sense to me financially and morally so I will support candidates that support that. Isn’t that what we are supposed to be doing?
It’s a given that all of us here want a strong Democratic Party. That’s not in debate and I don’t think we should make assumptions of one another that negate that let start with that as the very foundation of why we are here. But after that, aren’t we individuals?
I thought politicians enter politics as public servants. Don’t they solicit my money to help them run? Don’t they ask me to phone bank and canvass and register people and get to the polls? Aren’t I allowed to ask something from them, like honoring the pledge they made to me when they asked me to vote for them or support them? Aren’t I allowed to question why they didn’t stand up for what they told me they would do and if they couldn’t aren’t I allowed to ask them to explain themselves and make my own decision on whether I will support them again or look for another who will represent me better?
If we are to believe that the direction Trump/Musk and the Rs are taking this country is an authoritarian dictatorship in which the billionaires will control the country and split the spoils amongst themselves — which i honestly do — then isn’t it not only my right — but my duty as a supporter of democracy - to expect the people asking so much from me in terms of financial and political support - should honor my commitment to them with the same amount of fight? And if they won’t - and that’s ok with some people - shouldn’t it also NOT be ok with some people? A person who chooses public life tells me they want to be a public servant and make life better for their constituents. I don’t make a pledge to blindly follow them or believe that they are some all knowing, all seeing, always right entity. Do I not have enough brains, knowledge, integrity, thoughtfulness or critical thinking to decide if their decisions are the correct ones from my point of view? I have every right to expect them to fight and while we may not always get a win — I will continue to support only those who make the same commitment to me as they ask me to make to them. And as we are all struggling against a real tyranny shouldn’t we be able to discuss how we - as Democrats - should move forward. No one has to agree with every other person on this board. But discussion isn’t bashing. Disagreeing isn’t the end of civilization. And within the Democratic Party, opinion on messaging, commitment and energy is being engaged. And for some of us, a willingness to stand on principle and for something even if it might not succeed is the commitment we would like to see from our elected representatives.
mvd
(65,908 posts)Of course Trump and Musk should be our main focus of the criticism, and we shouldn’t hurl excessive attacks at Democrats. But as a party we do need dialogue. The bar for criticism of Democrats maybe should be a little lower than usual given the circumstances.
gulliver
(13,950 posts)To get the Dem brand back, we're going to have to get real. The re-dawning of the idea of a colorblind, commonsense party of the working and middle classes seems on the cusp of happening. I place my hopes there.
We need to get all of the "sweetie-pie," guilt trip, mental knots stuff out of our system for good. We need to chill and become based.
stillcool
(34,407 posts)but a little knowledge in a sea of bullshit is now our reality, with no end in sight and the truth is getting buried deeper every day. There seems to be no interest in learning anything about anything, just mimicking what is said by others while even using the same syntax. It's mob mentality. Next thing they'll be burning witches.
betsuni
(29,042 posts) Response to MineralMan (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
GP6971
(37,964 posts)want to check what box you checked when you joined.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)
Passages
(4,070 posts)Each politician has a voting record and Open Secrets keeps track of their donors.
If no one talks about why we have lost over and over again, it will improve our chances of winning??
Under the Obama years, we had a net loss of 1,042 state and federal Democratic posts, including congressional and state legislative seats, governorships, and the presidency.
We lost the presidency twice to a demagogue who single-handedly took over the Republican Party. So many Dems did not vote for a variety of reasons, and focusing on Republicans will somehow help Democrats win?
GoreWon2000
(1,461 posts)Schumer's spineless cowardice must be called out. The dems keep bringing slingshots to the fight while the repugs are bringing AK-47s.
EarnestPutz
(2,843 posts)Your point about supporting Democrats is right on, thanks for the reminder.
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Lots of back and forth in it. It got people talking about this.
EarnestPutz
(2,843 posts)How’s your old truck running?
MineralMan
(151,183 posts)Sold the one I had in 2021, after using it in the move. Won't be buying another one.
EarnestPutz
(2,843 posts)Or am I getting my DU folks mixed up in my dotage? Anyway, always nice to hear from you, especially since your voluntary effort at cutting back here.