I Think I'm Gonna Throw Up Now...

[WillyT]

Obama Hits Social Security In Fiscal Cliff Offer Friendlier To The Wealthy
Ryan Grim - HuffPo
Posted: 12/18/2012 12:49 am EST | Updated: 12/18/2012 8:19 am EST

<snip>

WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama, with his latest fiscal cliff offer, proposes extending the Bush tax cuts for everyone earning less than $400,000 a year, and paying for it by increasing taxes on the middle class and cutting Social Security and Medicare.

Obama's offer would allow the payroll tax holiday to expire, meaning middle class workers will see smaller paychecks in 2013. Economists have warned that the recovery is too fragile to risk a broad tax hike on workers. It would also gradually reduce Social Security, pension and Medicare benefits seniors are due to receive, taking a small bite up front, but building up to much larger cuts over time.

Obama's concession to Republicans is opposed by a majority of Americans, according to a HuffPost/YouGov poll. Fifty-two percent of survey respondents said the payroll tax cut should be extended to avoid raising taxes on the middle class, while 22 percent said that it should be allowed to expire to help pay down the debt. Extending the payroll tax cut received bipartisan support: 64 percent of Democrats and 57 percent of Republicans in the survey said they supported the extension.

MoveOn.org, the largest online progressive organization in Washington, reacted angrily Monday night to reports that Obama was softening. The group's quick reaction to a possible deal that has yet to be announced publicly shows there will be fierce opposition to cuts that hit Social Security, Medicare or Medicaid beneficiaries.

One top GOP aide predicted a deal, within the next day, that House Republicans would have no choice but to accept. A second said that many details still needed to be filled in, and that the president was dug in at $1.2 trillion in revenue, more than Republicans wanted.

<snip>

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/18/obama-social-security-fiscal-cliff_n_2319850.html

[ananda]

1. Obama has always governed from the corporate right.

..

[Fumesucker]

2. If you have a problem with preemptive capitulation then why did you vote Democratic?

Of course I'm not sure that capitulation is quite the right word, that implies doing something you actually didn't really want to do.

[RomneyLies]

3. I'm close to giving up on politics completely

If this is how our side treats us, why bother any more?

[Liberalynn]

47. I am begining to feel the same way

[COLGATE4]

4. Can anyone genuinely say that

they are surprised? With the exception of the 'nine-dimensional chess theorists', (for whom every move Obama makes is a cleverly concocted strategic thrust and parry, designed to lead to a crushing defeat for Republicans in the end), most of the rest of us have seen that Obama really has no core beliefs for which he is willing to fight. Others may take the lead, he may (or may not) sign on to them, but him fighting for HIS principles? Nope.

[deutsey]

6. If this is true, no, unfortunately, I'm not surprised

Pissed off, nonetheless, but not surprised.

[gkhouston]

5. "One top GOP aide predicted a deal"

So, an unnamed Republican has said this is the latest deal. Has anyone with names said it?

[Dawgs]

8. Harry Reid and the Whitehouse. You can quit trying to pretend that this isn't real now. n/t

[gkhouston]

42. Neither of whom were quoted here. If they've made a statement in the past few hours,

I'll believe it's real and think it sucks, but all I've seen, over and over again, are unnamed sources saying what they think might happen.

This article is worded in a way that makes it sound like the WH has issued a press release, and then you get down to the fifth paragraph and find that the only source mentioned for this rumor is an unnamed Republican staffer. That's someone trying to push a narrative by trying to make what they'd like to happen seem as if it already has.

Just like this article http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=341061. Makes it sound like Obama's definitely and publicly made a concession, then you get down to the third paragraph and see, "A person familiar with the talks also said..."

Without knowing who that person was we have no idea of what their agenda is or even if they exist.

[duffyduff]

7. I am sure he is still consulting with historians

to see what his place in history will be, people be damned.

[forestpath]

9. Somewhere Romney is laughing his obscenely rich ass off.

[Jamastiene]

10. I hope there is more room in another stall nearby.

FFS, I'm so sick and tired of Social Security and Medicare being used like a free-for-all jackpot for politicians to go blow some more money to benefit the rich even fucking more.

And ffs, how is less of a paycheck for the middle class in 2013 going to help the economy recover? They are literally KEEPING us in constant recession.

[WI_DEM]

11. Well, if they are going to let the payroll tax cut expire which largely benefits

the middle class then they should just let all of the Bush tax cut expire, too.

[nashville_brook]

12. You and me both, WillyT

ugh.

[Mel Content]

13. i'm DONE with politics, and i will NEVER cast another vote in ANY election in this country.

[Baitball Blogger]

14. Am I reading this right!

This is just fucking crazy! Does he have any idea at all how bad it is around here?

[ieoeja]

15. People actually want the payroll tax holiday to continue?

Prior to this thread I would have sworn reading more DUers complain that it should never have been passed than that it was ending. I thought that tax holiday had fairly universal opposition. Clearly I was wrong.

I am sticking to that position anyway. They payroll tax holiday cut funding for Social Security. Yes, we replaced that cut to Social Security with money from the General Fund. But in doing so we conflated the two funds for the first time. That was a dangerous precedent.

The argument that Social Security has nothing whatsoever to do with the deficit is no longer 100% accurate. A very tiny portion of Social Security is now part of our national debt. So small as to be meaningless, but it is now there.

The payroll tax holiday was stupid. In fact, if I wanted to undermine Social Security, I would probably start by getting rid of the payroll tax altogether and just pay for it out of the General Fund. That would pretty much kill Social Security, and this payroll tax holiday was a step in that direction.

And you people support this?

[michigandem58]

17. Some want whatever they aren't getting

Marginalization is a lifestyle choice.

[SoCalDem]

22. Exactly.. It was stupid then..and still stupid

Getting $20 extra a week is a barely noticeable "cut".. As weird as GW's checks were, at least it was a lump sum that people could use to pay down a debt. $20 a week is lunch money.,

But the cumulative effect of millions of people paying less every week into the SS fund..and getting used to NOT paying it in (especially the employer share) translates into a "new" tax when it all goes away..

The thing that has always pissed me off is that simply by removing the cap and by making ALL income subject to FICA, we could have avoided so much misery...now and in the future.

[yardwork]

16. It's our responsbility to fight back. Contact your representatives.

[Liberalynn]

48. already done

but since I don't have a million dollar donation to give them, I am not sure what good it has done me.

[hfojvt]

18. What? We will end up with 90% of the Bush tax cuts?

Who could possibly have predicted THAT? http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021880321

But not to worry, it's all good. After all, Obama got re-elected. Everybody chill, he's got this.

David Corn will be along shortly to explain what a great deal this is for us.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

19. WTF?

Wait a minute, President Obama..... I'm a big supporter of yours, so...What is this??

[bigtree]

20. now they don't even have to name the source; just feed off of the other weak reports

They've got a 'top GOP aide' though for folks to rely on to state and respond to the WH position . . .

[Whisp]

23. yep.

how many times have we gone through this? that we believe rw hacks and media who wants blood sports?

[uponit7771]

34. Yeap, look at the responses....pre campaign FUDr IMHO

[CrispyQ]

21. I didn't vote for President Obama in November, I voted against hate & bigotry.

The payroll tax holiday should end, but any cuts to SS & Medicare is exactly what I expected from this center-right president.

[former-republican]

24. Is this confirmed now or not?

[bigtree]

28. link

http://www.justmakingshitup.com/=2020881

[uponit7771]

35. http:\\www.IGonnaMakeSomethingUp.com

[WillyT]

55. Maybe... Check Out This Link:

The New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/06/us/politics/debtplans.html

Click on the plus signs on the left-hand side for more details.

[Uncle Joe]

25. Make no mistake about it "Chained CPI" is nothing but continuous cuts to social security.

Thanks for the thread, WillyT.

[bowens43]

26. we've been Romneyed......

[janlyn]

27. screwed

And not even a kiss on the neck!!!

[avebury]

29. And the Democrats will be wondering why they

will probably crash and burn in the 2014 Midterm Elections. If Obama and the Democrats sell out the 99%, I will have no reason to vote for them and will just stay home.

[spanone]

30. 'One top GOP aide' that's what this is all based on....

[raouldukelives]

31. A top GOP aide? When it's confirmed I'll freak out but now, all I can do is hope and pray.

I still believe our President and VP. They will not touch it. Any tinkering to SS or Medicare/Medicaid aside from raising the benefits or lowering the age = end of the line for me.

[BlueStreak]

38. Please stop hoping and start studying

A good place to start is to really understand what the insidious chained CPI is and does.

We already had a bogus CPI formula. It has always been based on a "market basket" of goods that were supposed to represent the essentials. But a good percentage of the things included in that market basket are agricultural items that are essentially price-controlled. So while that artificial market basket shows inflation of (say) 1.5%, the rest of what we buy is actually inflating more like 5%. At the same time, the Fed has been artificially holding interest rates near zero while "printing" loads of money, so if a person has any savings, they are losing ground to the real inflation rate and their future Social Security payout is being reduced relative to actual inflation every year.

Chained CPI just accelerates that. The concept behind "chaining" is simple. If you cannot afford regular groceries, you will choose to eat dog food rather than just die. And dog food costs less, so if you can live cheaper, then you really aren't affected by inflation. So we can take the already bogus CPI and make it even lower.

That, in a nutshell, is chained CPI. Obama is a smart mad. He understands this is equivalent to "let them eat dog food", yet he is willing to go there. That tells you everything you need to know.

[raouldukelives]

44. I know what chained CPI is. Like I said, any tinkering aside from increasing benefits. I'm done. nt

[BlueStreak]

45. What good does it do to freak out after the deal is already done?

The only time that we can have any influence over events is right now.

Anybody who thinks Obama will look out for our interests without a hell of a lot of pressure is being taken for a fool.

[heaven05]

32. Ok

if all of these articles coming out about the Democratic Party getting ready to stab us retirees, elderly, mentally ill, low wage earners and all the rest of us Joe and Josephine smucks in the back are to prepare us for the sinking of the Titanic, okay, we've been warned. But until I see it on paper and our POTUS signs off on it, I'm not going to believe the knife in the back stuff. Period. I just can't believe he would do it to people who stood in line 8-9 hours so that we could have some protection against the vulture capitalists and vulture politicians. Just can't believe it. Nope. Not now. Not yet.

[Uncle Joe]

36. When you see it on paper, it's too late, now is the time to make our voices heard,

so there is no mistake, misinterpretation or wavering by the Democratic Party in both the Congress and the White House.

[heaven05]

39. I'm

just not ready to stab Obama in the back. I like what hair I have left, I don't want to lose it to fire. I'm not going to go down that speculative path. It's all speculation. Our President has learned from his first four years and is a pretty sharp dude. I'm not going to shoot him down based on some huffpo article(Arianna has never impressed me with her so-called liberalism) or any article for that matter. I think our voices have been loud and plentiful enough for the gods in heaven to hear us let alone the pols in d.c.

[Uncle Joe]

41. I've heard Mark Shields say this many times

"In politics a week is a life time and month an eternity" or something to that effect.

Relative memories are short and I would rather err on the side of caution, if indeed this proves to be so much monkey dust pitched into the air by Huffington, the President and the Democratic Party will not be damaged.

What will be remembered is their steadfast stance on behalf of the people versus the powerful.

Peace to you.

[uponit7771]

33. ***MORE WARN OUT BULLSH!T**** Obama has 4 arms, ...cause I read it in an article

...unrec on doubt

[BlueStreak]

37. I notice the Obama-the Zenmaster-is-actually-kicking-Boehner's-butt crowd is MIA now

Now that it is obvious that either:

1) Obama is a completely inept negotiator; or

2) He never intended to fight for any of the things we care about.

Seems that it was just last week when that crowd was lecturing us about how little we understood of the 17-dimensional chess game the Obama plays.

Multi-dimensional chess, my ass. Boehner is clubbing him over the hear with the Checkers's box. "I've got your multi-dimensional chess right here, Mr. President."

[heaven05]

40. I

am glad none of you naysayers would be covering my back.

[dionysus]

51. or we don't feel like arguing with trolls on a message board when they are having their fun

with rumours.

[BlueStreak]

53. Well, while you are waiting for everything to be fait accomplis

you could spend some time here:

http://negotiatingwithobama.tumblr.com/

[WillyT]

57. "Rumors"... Interesting Take...

NYT Link: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/12/06/us/politics/debtplans.html

Salon Link: http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/liberals_reject_obamas_social_security_offer/

HuffPo Link: http://www.salon.com/2012/12/18/liberals_reject_obamas_social_security_offer/

MORE than rumors...

[WillyT]

46. Kick !!!

[WillyT]

49. Kick !!!

[99Forever]

50. Unacceptable.

Perhaps it's time to form a new political party. Neither of the major two seems to be in least bit interested in serving the people.

[graham4anything]

52. You could call them the Whiners. Why not give Ralph Nader a call, and start a new chat board

[99Forever]

56. Bye bye.

[Initech]

54. It's official: We live in the Matrix.

Hey Obama you won in a landslide, quit compromising and throw these greedy dipshits under the bus alredy!