I am not a gun person. But for the gun persons, how about you speak out?
I recall, way back when, kids my age going hunting. I grew up not far from Newtown, actually, and kids used to go with their Dads up into Monroe and Shelton, and, yes, Newtown, to hunt.
My Dad always told me he had enough of guns in Italy and France in the early and mid 1940s, during that big shooting incident they had over there. He never spoke about it specifically. It was understood he would not be a Dad who took his kids hunting.
When I turned 16, I joined the NRA, took my gun safety course, and bought a single shot 16 ga Savage shotgun. One of my sons still has it. No tradition involved. He just wanted it. It's a pretty benign gun as gun erotica goes.
When I was in the Navy, I had to learn to shoot a .45 automatic. I qualified pretty highly on it earned some award or other. It was more than 40 years ago, so I don't recall what it was, exactly. I also shot a lot of other shipboard-typical weaponry, both small arms and heavy stuff, up to a 40mm AA gun. Big booms! Yeah, it was visceral and in some ways kind of exciting. Cool. Big mechanical things making big noises. There's something in all that that seems to appeal to the testosterone rich among us.
To this day, I love the sound of unmuffled airplanes flying low and fast at air shows, of jets going vertical with afterburners flaming. Of cars going very fast. I love the concussion of the sound as it hits you, washes over and envelops you. I love that shit. I can see how guns hit that same spot.
Anyway, I'm not a gun guy. I hunted a few times, usually with borrowed weapons. Meh. I was more disgusted than not, killing something.
But I guess I can understand the allure of hunting. My younger son hunts. not so much anymore, but he still has a few long guns. no pistols, though. While it holds no appeal for me, I actually do think I understand hunting, and to some extent, owning a gun.
I also understand the familial pride of a Dad taking his kid hunting. Teaching him the skills needed, both gun skills and otherwise. I do. I get it. I also recall not feeling too good about my dad not taking me. I understand now, to be sure. But back then, he was Superman. Why wouldn't he take me?
So yeah, I think I understand hunting and hunters and some of the allure. And basically, I am fine with it. I prefer it not happen, but that's just me. I can be tolerant, though. I can also understand the need for guns, beyond and pride or pleasure. A rancher warding off a marauding predator. Law enforcement. I get all that.
But then you get into the perversion of guns. The fetishistic aspects.
Since I'm not a gun person, whatever I say becomes suspect. I have an agenda. I'd be just as happy - no, probably happier - if all guns simply disappeared.
But hunters, genuine sportsmen, honest gun users, responsible gun owners, why not speak out about gun fetishists. You know who I mean, so don't say you don't; you'd be lying. The survivalists. the castle people. those who fear crime from those of other skin colors. Why not treat the fetishists among you as society did to drunk drivers, smokers, wife beaters, etc. Societal pressures were applied to those activities. You know how the smokers now claim to be respectful and go outside to smoke. Many report being ashamed they still smoke. Millions, like me, have quit. It simply isn't cool anymore.
Why can't honest gun owners, the kind I describe above, why can't they put social pressure on the (okay, I'll go there) "gun nuts" to stop being so . . . . . I dunno, nutty?
It seems to me you'd do yourselves a service. Guns would be seen as they once were. Reasonable ownership restrictions could put in place without harm to the responsible owners. Police yourself.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Yep. Well said.
We live in a very rural area (Ouachita Mountains, Arkansas) surrounded by National Forest.
We are committed to living as sustainably, independently, and Green as possible.
We grow most of our own food,
keep chickens and Honey Bees,
Veggies, Fruit Trees and various cultivated Berries.
Next year, we are going to add either a few yearling calfs, or pigs, or sheep (haven't decided which yet).
We are Liberal FDR Working Class Democrats who own several long guns, and a hand gun.
We maintain them, and shoot them at least twice a year on our rural property.
We keep them all loaded, readily accessible,
but out-of sight and covered on a wall rack in the back hallway.
(We have no children or adolescents in our home.)
I have used them to protect ourselves, our property, our stock and our pets,
and will do so again if the need arises,
though I prefer to Live Trap & Relocate.
At the current time, we are not hungry enough to hunt,
but would do so if the need arises,
and will have the necessary skills to do so effectively and efficiently.
We recently raised a rescue fawn,
and LOVE her dearly,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1182456
but we also have venison in the freezer (gift from a neighbor)
and would hunt deer if necessary, though I prefer Game Birds.
Such is LIFE.
We have chosen to live in a very rural area, and most of our neighbors are Fox News Republicans, though we maintain good neighborly relationships based on our love of the land here.
They HAVE been brainwashed into believing that Alan Colmes is representative of all "Democrats",
and continually express their amazement that this old Oil Field Roughneck,
*who can crawl under a truck and change a transmission,
*who is firmly Pro-UNION and unafraid to say so,
*who spends most of the day with dirty hands,
*who builds everything himself using mostly hand tools,
*who wears the old scars of youthful Bar Room Brawls on his face
*who calls straight Up Bullshit when he hears it,
*who owns and shoots guns,
*who runs into burning houses with the other FireFighters on our department,
is an unashamed Liberal Democrat.
As an unashamed Liberal Democrat living among Fox News Republicans,
I am glad my neighbors KNOW that we are armed and competent.
I have continually reassured my neighbors out here that
"The Democrats aren't going to take your guns. The only want to take them from criminals and nuts in the cities."
They seem to understand that.
The recent hysterical threads on DU calling for a total Banning of all guns is not helpful.
My Wife & I have given MORE lifetime Republicans permission to vote FOR the Democrat (even the *gasp* Black One) than we ever did in Big Blue Minneapolis.
I am not a Gun Nut, though some here would label me as one.
In 11 years at DU, I have never visited the Gun Forum and have no desire to do so.
I have never been a member of the NRA,
and have nothing but contempt for the drivers of vehicles with the little NRA stickers on the back.
I am one of the many, many responsible Liberal Democrats who own guns,
and will continue to do so.
As far as speaking up to the "nutters",
well, we have some of those out here.
There are more than a couple who are certain that we are in the End Times,
and can't wait for the day that they can shoot hungry people ("Survivalists"
.
They Live and Dream that shit.
We avoid them where ever possible.
They ARE crazy and dangerous.
We will be leaving them completely alone,
and pray they will return the favor.
No respect for the animals. No respect for sportsmanship. No respect for the law. It's all about them. And that's why we should fund our game warden departments extremely well so that when they go over that line where the law says they can't kill that animal that way, they get busted, and then they will know, it's not all about them and theirs.
That you chose to lead with that sort of argument suggests you're not learning one damned thing from the productive discussions you are having.
Stay safe AlexSatan 
Violence is never the answer to our problems. At the same time, you know very well that this does not represent even a small minority of thought on this topic.
yet any liberal gun owner is considered a nut. The number of people ignoring me has doubled this weekend; never have I advocated arming teachers-- horrible idea.
Yet I see very few pro-control members shushing their extremists.
Both sides are going to have to accept their anathema and speak with those holding opposing viewpoints. I like to think I am moderate but have sinned in the discussions 
. I am willing to try and try hard. If we fail, we know who will pay the price of that failure.
Charlotte Bacon, 6
Charlotte was sweet, outgoing and full of energy, her grandmother told CNN affiliate WCCO in Minnesota.
"This is tough. This is surreal. You can't believe this could happen," Irene Hagen told the network. "The whole family is just devastated and we're all trying to come to terms with it."
She said her granddaughter loved school and dresses. Her hair was a mass of beautiful red curls.
"It's horrible. It's really horrible," Hagen told WCCO. "It's hard to believe that someone would kill children, innocent children."
Rachel D'Avino, 29
She likely didn't know it when she died, but her best friend was about to propose.
He had recently asked Rachel's parents for permission, and he was planning to ask for her hand in marriage on Christmas Eve.
That and other details about Rachel's life were described in an obituary posted on the website of Munson-Lovetere Funeral Homes of Connecticut.
"Her presence and tremendous smile brightened any room she entered," it read.
Born in Waterbury, Rachel received her undergraduate degree from the University of Hartford and her Masters from Post University. She was working toward her Doctorate at the University of St. Joseph of Hartford.
Rachel loved karate, cooking, animals, photography and her two younger siblings.
"Her passion, however, was her occupation as a behavioral therapist working with children within the autism spectrum," the obituary read.
In lieu of flowers, it asked that donations be made to Autism Speaks, an advocay organization.
Olivia Engel, 6
Her favorite stuffed animal was a lamb; pink and purple were her favorite colors.
Olivia's family posted a statement on Facebook with those and other details about their beloved daughter.
"She was insightful for her age and had a great sense of humor. She laughed a lot and always lit up a room including the people around her. She was very creative and was always drawing and designing things," her family said.
Olivia took art and dance lessons, played tennis, soccer and swam. She was involved in Girl Scouts and musical theater. She loved school and did well in math and reading.
Her family described her as a "grateful child ... never greedy." Each night, Olivia led grace at the dinner table.
Dylan Hockley, 6
"To know him was to love him," Dylan's grandmother told the Boston Herald about her grandson.
Dylan loved video games, jumping on a trampoline, watching movies and munching garlic bread, she said. He had dimples, blue eyes and "the most mischievous little grin," Theresa Moretti told the newspaper.
She said her daughter and son-in-law moved to Connecticut from England and chose to live where they did because of the schools. Dylan had an older brother.
"He was an angel," Moretti told the Herald. "And I think that's now why he's in heaven."
Dawn Lafferty Hochsprung, 47
Hochsprung, who became Sandy Hook Elementary School's principal two years ago, was "really nice and very fun, but she was also very much a tough lady in the right sort of sense," friend Tom Prunty said. And the students loved her. "Even little kids know when someone cares about them, and that was her," Prunty said.
"I never saw her without a smile," said Aimee Seaver, mother of a first-grader.
Hochsprung lived in Woodbury, Connecticut, with her husband, two daughters and three stepdaughters.
The longtime career educator majored in special education for her bachelor's and master's degrees in the 1990s and had just entered the Ph.D. program at Esteves School of Education at the Sage Colleges in New York last summer. Hochsprung led a school district's strategic planning panel and was the recipient of a national school grant.
Her accomplishments included overseeing the installation of a new security system requiring every visitor to ring the front entrance's doorbell after the school doors locked at 9:30 a.m.
"My mom, Dawn Hochsprung, was taken tragically from me. But she went down in a blaze of glory that truly represents who she was," her daughter, Cristina Hassinger, tweeted.
Jesse Lewis, 6
Jesse loved math, riding horses and playing at his mom's farm, his father told the New York Post.
"He was just a happy boy," said Neil Heslin. "Everybody knew Jesse."
He told the newspaper his son was to make gingerbread houses at school Friday. Heslin was planning to help.
Instead, the last time he saw his son was when he dropped him off at school at 9 a.m.
"He was going to go places in life," Heslin told the Post.
Ana Marquez-Greene, 6
"1, 2, 3, ready and go," Ana counts down in a homemade video provided to CNN affiliate WTIC.
The girl in pigtails stands in front of a piano as her brother plays. Her voice is clear, bigger than her size. Ana smiles and waves.
Her father, Jimmy Greene, is a jazz musician. His representative released a statement on Ana's death, describing the little girl as "beautiful and vibrant."
"The family has requested privacy at this time of heartbreaking loss," it read. They "have asked us to relay their sincere gratitude for the outpouring of support and sympathy locally, nationally and internationally."
Grace McDonnell, 7
The ultimate "girly girl." Grace loved wearing pink and playing dress-up with jewelry, her grandmother told the Boston Herald.
As Mary Ann McDonnell spoke, she was surrounded by Christmas presents meant for Grace, Gracie, as she was sometimes called.
The little girl loved art, gymnastics, soccer and her small spaniel, Puddin', her grandmother said.
"She was a wonderful little girl. She was always smiling," McDonnell told the newspaper. "I think everybody should know about these beautiful children whose lives were cut short."
Anne Marie Murphy, 52
A hero. That's how a first responder reportedly described Murphy to her father.
He told Newsday that authorities told him her body was found in a classroom, covering young children killed in the shooting in an apparent attempt to shield them.
"She died doing what she loved. She was serving children and serving God," Murphy's mother, Alice McGowan, told the newspaper.
A married mother of four, Murphy was artistic and hardworking, her parents said.
"She was a happy soul," her mother told Newsday. "She was a very good daughter, a good mother, a good wife."
Emilie Parker, 6
She could "light up a room," Emilie's father said about his oldest daughter.
Robbie Parker described her as "bright, creative and very loving." Emilie was always willing to try new things, he said, except food. Her laugh was infectious.
"My daughter Emilie would be one of the first ones to be standing up and giving her love and support to all of those victims, because that is the type of person she is," said Parker.
He said she was "an exceptional artist and she always carried around her markers and pencils so she never missed an opportunity to draw a picture or make a card for someone."
"This world is a better place because she has been in it," Parker said.
Emilie's aunt described her niece as the "sweetest little girl I've ever known."
The family is devastated that "someone so beautiful and perfect is no longer going to be in our lives and for no reason," said Jill Cottle Garrett.
Emilie's father, who works as a physician's assistant in the newborn unit at the Danbury hospital, recalled his last conversation with his daughter was in Portuguese, a language he was teaching her.
"She said that she loved me, and I gave her a kiss and I was out the door," he said.
Noah Pozner, 6
"He had a huge heart and he was so much fun, a little bit rambunctious, lots of spirit," Noah's aunt told CNN. "He was really the light of the room."
Victoria Haller said her nephew loved playing with his cousins and siblings, especially his twin sister.
"He was a gorgeous, gorgeous boy and he could really get what he wanted just by batting those long eyelashes and looking at you with those big blue eyes. You really couldn't say no to him," she said.
His siblings don't know yet the exact way in which Noah passed away, Haller said.
"How do you tell them that's how their brother died?" she asked. "It's the unthinkable really."
Jessica Rekos, 6
Jessica loved everything about horses -- horse movies, horse books, drawing horses and writing stories about them.
She asked Santa this year for new cowgirl boots and a cowgirl hat. Her family had promised she could get her own horse when she turned 10.
"She was a creative, beautiful, little girl," her family said in a statement, describing Jessica as their "rock."
"She had an answer for everything, she didn't miss a trick, and she outsmarted us every time. We called her our little CEO for the way she carefully thought out and planned everything," they said. "We can not imagine our life without her."
Jessica also loved orca whales and playing with her two little brothers.
"We are mourning her loss, sharing our beautiful memories we have of her, and trying to help her brother Travis understand why he can't play with his best friend," her family said.
Lauren Rousseau, 30
Rousseau, a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, "wanted to be a teacher from before she even went to kindergarten," her mother said in a written statement Saturday. "We will miss her terribly and will take comfort knowing that she had achieved that dream," Teresa Rousseau said.
She grew up in Danbury, Connecticut, and earned a bachelor's degree from the University of Connecticut and a master's degree in elementary education from the University of Bridgeport.
Rousseau "worked as a substitute teacher in Danbury, New Milford and Newtown before she was hired in November as a permanent substitute teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown," her mother said.
Mary Sherlach, 56
Sherlach, Sandy Hook Elementary's school psychologist, was with Hochsprung when they heard a "pop, pop, pop" sound around 9:30 a.m., a parent with both women at the time told CNN. Sherlach was shot to death after heading into the hall to find out what was happening.
"I ... am always ready to assist in problem-solving, intervention and prevention," Sherlach wrote on her website.
Sherlach earned her undergraduate degree in psychology at SUNY Cortland and a master's degree at Southern Connecticut State University. She worked as a rehabilitation assistant at a group home for disabled adults and as a community mental health placement specialist before becoming a school psychologist.
She worked in three Connecticut school systems before moving to Sandy Hook Elementary in 1994. During her time in Newtown, Sherlach kept busy as a member of numerous groups such as the district conflict resolution committee, safe school climate committee, crisis intervention team and student instructional team.
Sherlach and her husband for more than three decades lived in Trumbull, Connecticut, and, together, they were "proud parents" of two daughters in their late 20s. Her website listed her interests as gardening, reading and going to the theater.
Victoria Soto, 27
Soto, a first-grade teacher at Sandy Hook Elementary, moved her students away from the classroom door when she heard gunfire, which students initially "thought were hammers falling," according to the father of one of her students.
"That's when the gunman burst in, did not say a word, no facial expressions, and proceeded to shoot their teacher," said Robert Licata, whose 6-year-old son, Aiden, escaped by running past the shooter.
Soto's mother said her daughter was selfless.
"She would not hesitate to think to save anyone else before herself and especially children. She loved them more than life, and she would definitely put herself in front of them any day," Donna Soto told CNN's Piers Morgan.
Soto wanted to be a teacher since she was 3 and talked about her students with "such fondness and caring," her mother said.
Soto's cousin, James Wiltsie, said Soto "instinctively went into action when a monster came into her classroom and tried to protect the kids that she loved so much."
"We just want the public to know that Vicki was a hero," he said.
Soto had a dog she loved. The black lab Roxie spent Saturday wandering around Soto's apartment, apparently looking for her, relatives said.
Other victims
Daniel Barden, 7; Josephine Gay, 7; Madeleine Hsu, 6; Catherine Hubbard, 6; Chase Kowalski, 7; James Mattioli, 6; Jack Pinto, 6; Caroline Previdi, 6; Avielle Richman, 6; Benjamin Wheeler, 6; Allison Wyatt, 6.
I will refuse to ever name the murder of such as these. They are lower than animals and no longer deserve the dignity of an indentity.
You said it well, Stinky the Clown.
Since it is my OP, I can set the rules as to what is or isn't.
Anyway . . . . I see little wrong with what you own. I once had a British Enfield .308 bolt action from WWII. Cool looking gun. Flash arrestor muzzle on it. It was given to me as a gift. I soon enough sold it because I though the ammunition was too expensive. This was about 30 years ago, maybe longer. But I get your point. I collect old stuff too.
The sour graper also replying to you is way off base.
Served the British well for decades, I'd love to have one for my collection.
The sour grapers don't bother me, I have a pretty thick skin 
Some people can't tell the difference between an owner and a cold blooded killer. With a sense of character recognition like that, I wouldn't crawl out from under the bed, even on a good day.
Tell this lovely young lady she's a far right gun nut who should be banished to the fringes of society:
...but what about the quiet collector?
I'm talking about people who buy certain antiques that will never see a round fired because it hurts the value, then use it as an IRA or hand them down to heirs. How can you put a number on how many of those one should be able to own? No one has ever gone on a deadly shooting spree with a 19th century lever action Henry rifle like the one pictured below.
Collector guns are like antique cars where condition is everything. Avid car collectors are wont to add miles to their investment because the value diminishes with each drive, and guns can only be fired so many times before the violent internal explosion turns it into a rattling worn out hunk of metal. For most quality guns (read expensive), 5,000 times is the absolute life span, after which it's ready for the scrap yard. For what we used to call "Saturday Night Specials", it's much much less, but they aren't designed for anything but killing someone and tossing it in the river. The country could well do without those (and Yugos).
I sold most of my collection back in the '90s when I needed the money. Some of the antique single action Colts were in velvet lined presentation cases and unfired (a collector can tell). a couple were gold plated. Those particular guns were never built to kill anyone or anything. They were built as an investment, though deciding which ones will appreciate over time can take the shrewdness of Jim Cramer and the wherewithal of Bill Gates. As in every investment, some are blue chips, and others are penny stocks, cheap reproductions sold behind a smoke screen of hype and sentiment.
Right wing gun nut?... or enthusiast/collector?:
It'd be hard to tell unless you know her. Personally, I wouldn't worry about Rachel Maddow...nor would I assume she's defenseless.
sorry bout that but...
"I wouldn't mind seeing an end to flea market sales"... this is just not good enough. Why not come out and be strong against those who abuse the lax laws and regulations? If you're a responsible gun owner, why not join the voices of those crying out for better laws and better enforcement? That would make you a really responsible gun owner, instead of a defensive whiner. Don't take that as an insult--we whine and complain about a lot of things around here.
If you don't get respect from your gun fetish friends for being a more responsible gun owner, maybe you can ditch them and find some more like yourself? If you're a single issue voter, then maybe you might consider going with the GOP, since you'll never have any worries with them? Just a suggestion.
It's good to see gun owners with some conscience left, as you appear to be. But don't come here and expect to get a whole lot of support today. Unrealistic.
If "comraderie" here depends on how the majority opinion goes about guns...well sorry, but you will have to take a break from DU and let posters here have one of the few opportunities where we can speak out safely and emphatically on the subject, and it's not even buried in the Gungeon.
Can't compare the gun issue to pro-choice. Lame comparison. If guns are where it's at for you--the most important political issue for you--then GOP is where to go. Dems are way too split on the subject. I don't think you'll convince anybody around here who is against guns to your POV. Not gonna happen.
As a second generation retired union member, that's always been my primary focus in politics.
I very seldom visit the gungeon because I get shot down there (pun) for being critical to what I consider over the top positions. I don't find much common ground there, and increasingly in this forum. That's why I declared myself "in the middle" on gun ownership. Since I'm in the mood for puns today, one could say I'm caught in a crossfire.
Though I am a bit insulted at your suggestion that I join the GOP, I realize you don't know me. I believe that a lot of good democrats own firearms, and the consensus here doesn't alter that fact. Even some of my "gun fetish" friends are blue collar registered democrats, they just have personal issues that makes them think they have to be armed 24/7. I can't abandon a lifelong friend for that one flaw anymore than I would change the channel because my favorite MSNBC hostess packs heat.
I don't go there very often because I get eviscerated when I talk common sense regulation.
Guns, as I've pointed out, are not my biggest issue in life though... labor is.
Unlike you, I don't see guns as a partisan issue. Millions of good democrats own guns and will fight for the right to retain them. If the Democrats try to purge the party of gun owners, as you seem to advocate, they will face the same fate as Republicans who shunned pro-abortion and fair tax moderates. I love my party because there is no litmus test (yet) for membership other than racial tolerance.
I don't BTW, plan on surrendering my 100 year old Colt .380 Pocket Model auto to grant someone a false sense of security when they can't tell the difference between a responsible gun owner and a psycho killer. The onus is upon the accuser to provide evidence that anyone and everyone who owns a gun is a complete nut case. When that is accomplished, guns will be banned forever.
You'll never hear this woman call for a unilateral ban, and I'd never use the word "nut" to address her:
Bushmaster. But let's don't carry this on further. You and I will never agree--but we can both vote Dem because of course we're both for more regulation and elimination of assault weapons from a civilized society.
