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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:12 PM

More than 1 in 10 Americans takes SSRIs -

Have more than 1 in 10 Americans engaged in violent assaults?

http://psychcentral.com/news/2009/08/03/antidepressant-use-up-75-percent/7514.html

Can we please have an end to the "SSRIs made him do it threads"?

http://www.webmd.com/depression/ssris-myths-and-facts-about-antidepressants

23 replies, 2499 views

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Arrow 23 replies Author Time Post
Reply More than 1 in 10 Americans takes SSRIs - (Original post)
hedgehog Dec 2012 OP
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #1
hedgehog Dec 2012 #3
GreenPartyVoter Dec 2012 #6
Th1onein Dec 2012 #2
hedgehog Dec 2012 #4
Th1onein Dec 2012 #8
BigDemVoter Dec 2012 #10
ceile Dec 2012 #12
hedgehog Dec 2012 #14
cthulu2016 Dec 2012 #22
SidDithers Dec 2012 #5
FarCenter Dec 2012 #7
hedgehog Dec 2012 #11
FarCenter Dec 2012 #16
octoberlib Dec 2012 #23
green for victory Dec 2012 #17
Liberalynn Dec 2012 #9
LisaLynne Dec 2012 #13
Comrade_McKenzie Dec 2012 #15
HiPointDem Dec 2012 #18
green for victory Dec 2012 #21
dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #19
ellisonz Dec 2012 #20

Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:14 PM

1. Yes, thank you!

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Response to GreenPartyVoter (Reply #1)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:25 PM

3. The only reason that anyone would take a drug known to

mess up your sex life is that life is so much worse if you don't take the drug!



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Response to hedgehog (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:33 PM

6. I know this only too well. *sigh*

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:24 PM

2. Not a good comparison. Sorry, fail.

GlaxoSmithKline's data from all of their placebo-controlled paroxetine trials showed "hostility events" (which includes mere thoughts as well as actions) in a total of 60 out 9219 paroxetine cases (0.65%) and 20 out of 6455 placebo cases (0.31%). From here: http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/slideshow.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0030372

That's only ONE of the SSRI drugs (Paxil); there are quite a few copycats out there. There are black box warnings on these drugs, for God's sake, about them causing suicidal and homicidal behavior. Are we supposed to just ignore them?

I am all for a gunless society. I am a pacifist. But we cannot ignore this link. It takes only one violent episode and one person on these drugs can take out dozens.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #2)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:31 PM

4. Suicide rates among children and adolescents went up when SSRI usage dropped :

"Conclusions: In both the United States and the Netherlands, SSRI prescriptions for children and adolescents decreased after U.S. and European regulatory agencies issued warnings about a possible suicide risk with antidepressant use in pediatric patients, and these decreases were associated with increases in suicide rates in children and adolescents."

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=98898



http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/developmentor/do_antidepressants_increase_the_risk_of_suicide_in_children_and_adolescents

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #4)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:51 PM

8. FACT: You are more likely to commit suicide if you are taking an SSRI for depression.

That's a fact. The following is from Harvard Medical School. http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/What_are_the_real_risks_of_antidepressants.htm

Suicide. The risk that antidepressants will incite violent or self-destructive actions is the subject of renewed controversy. Suicidal thoughts (although no suicides) in patients taking SSRIs were first reported in 1990, shortly after the drugs were introduced. An FDA committee rejected the association, and most mental health professionals accepted that conclusion. But the issue was never completely settled.

One reason for concern is the increasing number of children and adolescents receiving prescriptions for antidepressants. An analysis of clinical trials in patients under age 18 found that SSRIs raised the risk of suicidal thinking when compared with a placebo. Many studies have followed, and although results vary, there is a consistent trend. When compared with a placebo, all antidepressants, including SSRIs, seem to double the risk of suicidal thinking, from 1%–2% to 2%–4%, in both children and adults.

In October 2004, after much hesitation and pressure from parents and Congress, the FDA issued a Black Box Warning for physicians and pharmacists — its strongest available measure short of withdrawing a drug from the market. The warning is placed on package inserts for all antidepressants in common use. It mentions the risk of suicidal thoughts, hostility, and agitation in both children and adults, specifically citing statistical analyses of clinical trials. The FDA has also issued a public advisory to parents, physicians, and pharmacists, and it will develop an information guide to be distributed with each new prescription.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:57 PM

10. I think it depends on the point at which one starts taking them. . . .

When somebody is terribly, terribly depressed, they don't even have the energy to commit suicide. Once they start on anti-depressants, they are sometimes at the highest risk at the beginning of their therapy, as they have more energy and are consequently MORE likely to commit suicide. Bizarre, but apparently true.

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:57 PM

12. That's for children under the age of 18 n/t

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:02 PM

14. keep reading on your link:

"The adolescent suicide rate declined nearly 15% in the United States between 1985 and 1999, while use of SSRIs in that age group was rising by nearly 70%. Only 20% of adolescents who commit suicide have ever taken an antidepressant drug."

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Response to Th1onein (Reply #8)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:33 PM

22. "Suicidal thoughts"

are not suicides.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:31 PM

5. DU rec...nt

Sid

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:46 PM

7. They work very well as a placebo and they make the drug companies lots of money

 

Antidepressants: Do They "Work" or Don't They?

A controversial article just published in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical Association concluded that antidepressants are no more effective than placebos for most depressed patients. Jay Fournier and his colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania aggregated individual patient data from six high-quality clinical trials and found that the superiority of antidepressants over placebo is clinically significant only for patients who are very severely depressed. For patients with mild, moderate, and even severe depression, placebos work nearly as well as antidepressants.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=antidepressants-do-they-work-or-dont-they

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20051569?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=1

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:57 PM

11. Most people who are on anti-depressants go through several different

drugs or drug combinations before they find one that works. Clearly, the placebo effect doesn't emerge in real life! On the other hand, if say Drug A is effective for only 20% of the people using it, it will turn up as only 20% effective for a random group of people. It's like treating people with viral pneumonia with penicillin, then announcing that penicillin is no more effective than a placebo! The problem we have today is that we don't know how to diagnose depression well enough to differentiate between those that respond to Drug A and those that respond to drug B.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:20 PM

16. Going through several until one works is also consistent with ineffectiveness

 

The patient gets better for other reasons while trying out the series of drugs.

Its like going to the doctor with a bad cold, getting an antibiotic, and getting better. The antibiotic has no effect on the cold virus, but the body's immune system fights off the cold while it is being taken.

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Response to hedgehog (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:36 PM

23. There've been a bunch of books published on this subject by scientists

And also the fact that depression caused by chemical imbalance has never been proven. Chemical imbalance is basically a term used by the drug companies(and some psychiatrists ) to market their drugs.



Oops, I meant to reply to FarCenter.

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Response to FarCenter (Reply #7)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:24 PM

17. Nice find! Where's the WooWoo train?

 

is that only reserved for "alternatives"

@WooWoo
#WooWoo

Come 'n git it

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 03:55 PM

9. I agree

 

with the OP

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Response to Liberalynn (Reply #9)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:02 PM

13. Me, too. nt

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:03 PM

15. Fucking idiots always have to climb on their high horse about something...

 

I hope drug companies start suing people that claim this stuff...

We don't need stigmas attached to medication that helps people.

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:24 PM

18. does that include the researchers doing the studies that show the drugs are not effective in

 

aggregate?

what a great idea!

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Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:30 PM

21. Quick! Tell the National Institutes of Health! NIH.GOV

 

NIH.GOV: Antidepressants and Violence-Problems at the Interface of Medicine & Law
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/

Both clinical trial and pharmacovigilance data point to possible links between these drugs and violent behaviours. The legal cases outlined returned a variety of verdicts that may in part have stemmed from different judicial processes. Many jurisdictions appear not to have considered the possibility that a prescription drug may induce violence.

..In these trials, hostile events are found to excess in both adults and children on paroxetine compared with placebo, and are found across indications, and both on therapy and during withdrawal. The rates were highest in children with obsessive-compulsive disorder (OCD), where the odds ratio of a hostile event was 17 times greater (95% confidence interval

Emotional blunting

Another mechanism that may contribute to hostile events is treatment-induced emotional blunting. Several reports published since 1990 have linked SSRI intake with the production of emotional blunting, detachment, or an amotivational syndrome, described in one report as the equivalent to a

“chemical lobotomy”



. It is quite common in clinical practice to find people who say they simply are not bothered any more. Things that would previously have worried them no longer do so...


Mania and psychosis

Another mechanism that may link SSRIs to violence are the manic or psychotic states reported to be induced by drug treatment. These drug-induced states often resolve once the medication is removed. However, the full dimensions of treatment-induced psychotic or manic reactions have yet to be mapped; some may continue for a long period after treatment has stopped . It has recently been estimated that these drug-induced manic or psychotic states may account for up to eight percent of admissions to psychiatric facilities .

...The development of a psychotic episode or of command hallucinations has traditionally been linked to both violence and suicide. The labels for most SSRIs now concede a causal relationship to psychosis and to hallucinations...(more)

Conclusion

The new issues highlighted by these cases need urgent examination jointly by jurists and psychiatrists in all countries where antidepressants are widely used. The problem is international, and it would make sense to organise an international effort now.

Annex: The Illustrative Medico-Legal Cases

Case 1

DS was a 60-year-old man with a history of five prior anxiety/depressive episodes. These did not involve suicidality, aggressive behaviour, or other serious disturbance. All prior episodes had resolved within several weeks...

...In 1998, a new family doctor, unaware of this adverse reaction to fluoxetine, prescribed paroxetine 20 mg to DS, for what was diagnosed as an anxiety disorder. Two days later having had, it is believed, two doses of medication, DS using a gun put three bullets each through the heads of his wife, his daughter who was visiting, and his nine-month-old granddaughter before killing himself.

Case 3

DH was a 74-year-old man from New South Wales with a history of mixed anxiety/depressive episodes, many of which resolved without drug treatment. He had no history of violence or suicidality, and had remained gainfully employed throughout...

That night, apparently feeling worse after a first dose of sertraline, DH took four more doses of sertraline. The next morning, after his wife got up he met her in the kitchen and strangled her...(more)

(More cases detailed at link)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1564177/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022008133#post6

****************************************************

Failure to heed the Governments warnings could lead to more deaths.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:24 PM

19. If this in connection with CT

there is at present nothing to suggest he was taking anything other than conjecture in some of the media.

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Response to hedgehog (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 04:27 PM

20. Agreed.

Several European states conduct psychological reviews for gun ownership, I've never seen anything to suggest that taking anti-depressants were a disqualifier.

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