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WSHazel

(639 posts)
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:40 PM Apr 2025

We are in a recession

Blacrock’s Larry Fink was on CNBC on Friday, and said we already are in a recession.

I know Wall Street is pretty unpopular with many here, and having spent my life in corporate finance I would agree that Wall Street is littered with pretentious con men, liars, mercenaries, and worst of all, finance bros. It also employs a ton of people and leans socially liberal, and is our strongest ally against a descent into autocracy. Trump can’t bend financial markets to his will, because the money can just leave our country, which appears to be happening.

https://thehill.com/business/5245180-us-may-already-be-in-recession-blackrock-ceo/amp/

32 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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We are in a recession (Original Post) WSHazel Apr 2025 OP
Trump::: "Only the weak will fail." --- 'It's your fault, peasant.' Norrrm Apr 2025 #1
Quite possibly true, although won't be officially called until sometime in Q3 Fiendish Thingy Apr 2025 #2
Not just two negative GDP quarters... WarGamer Apr 2025 #3
When did Biden have two neg Quarters? Fiendish Thingy Apr 2025 #7
Here's the headline of the time. WarGamer Apr 2025 #10
Stock market tanked in 2022 MichMan Apr 2025 #27
The market will not care what he calls it. WSHazel Apr 2025 #4
The contraction likely began mid-to-late February, march was worse, and the tariff nonsense is just a disaster. unblock Apr 2025 #5
I agree it started in Q1 Fiendish Thingy Apr 2025 #6
Putin has ordered Donnie to inflict maximum pain. unblock Apr 2025 #13
Well, he is certainly solidifying China's position as world power. travelingthrulife Apr 2025 #24
I'm don't think Donnie has a clue. unblock Apr 2025 #25
you need to start posting more, WSHazel Skittles Apr 2025 #8
Thank you WSHazel Apr 2025 #14
scary times Skittles Apr 2025 #17
I am more corporate finance WSHazel Apr 2025 #19
it's getting crazy! Skittles Apr 2025 #30
Note a very subtle difference in meaning. Igel Apr 2025 #9
When Black Rock's CEO states we may be in a recession WSHazel Apr 2025 #15
We are only in the late 2007 chapter of this one. roamer65 Apr 2025 #11
Yes, we're in the "Creaking Noises Coming From 2 Bear Stearns CDO Funds" Phase. hatrack Apr 2025 #12
I wish I could rec this more than once WSHazel Apr 2025 #16
The liquidity crisis in the next few weeks or less. roamer65 Apr 2025 #18
what does that mean? onethatcares Apr 2025 #20
How is he defining "recession"? onenote Apr 2025 #21
Normal definition WSHazel Apr 2025 #23
NBER defines recession differently, and more reasonably from an economist's perspective. unblock Apr 2025 #26
Pretty much all my retirement is in Wall Street... Happy Hoosier Apr 2025 #22
Looking at my losses, I believe we are in a recession. Emile Apr 2025 #28
Cnbc's David Faber and Steve Liesman have been honest flamingdem Apr 2025 #29
CNBC was cheerleading for Trump in January WSHazel Apr 2025 #31
They see what his policies are doing to the stock market flamingdem Apr 2025 #32

Fiendish Thingy

(22,265 posts)
2. Quite possibly true, although won't be officially called until sometime in Q3
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 04:48 PM
Apr 2025

It takes two consecutive quarters of negative GDP to call a recession, although this administration will certainly fiddle with the numbers, so other stats not dependent on an honest government will likely have to be used.

WarGamer

(18,259 posts)
3. Not just two negative GDP quarters...
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 05:02 PM
Apr 2025

Biden had two consecutive negative quarters and they didn't call it a recession because UE numbers stayed good...

Fiendish Thingy

(22,265 posts)
7. When did Biden have two neg Quarters?
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 07:46 PM
Apr 2025

I seem to recall the numbers being revised (as they often are) and that’s why no recession was called.

In any case 2Q’s of neg GDP are foundational components of a recession, whatever else is included in the assessment.

WarGamer

(18,259 posts)
10. Here's the headline of the time.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 07:55 PM
Apr 2025

Q1 and Q2/22


https://www.npr.org/2022/07/28/1113649843/gdp-2q-economy-2022-recession-two-quarters

U.S. economy just had a 2nd quarter of negative growth. Is it in a recession?

The U.S. economy shrank in the last three months by 0.9%.

This is the second consecutive quarter where the economy has contracted. In the first quarter, GDP, or gross domestic product, decreased at an annual rate of 1.6%.

While two consecutive quarters of negative growth is often considered a recession, it's not an official definition. A nonprofit, non-partisan organization called the National Bureau of Economic Research determines when the U.S. economy is in a recession. An NBER committee made up of eight economists makes that determination and many factors go into that calculation.

MichMan

(16,736 posts)
27. Stock market tanked in 2022
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 10:30 AM
Apr 2025
Goodbye 2022 – and good riddance. Markets close out their worst year since 2008

Wall Street has said goodbye — and good riddance — to 2022, a year most investors would rather forget.All three major averages were down on Friday, clocking their worst year since 2008 and ended a three-year winning streak.

The Dow fell 73 points, or 0.2% Friday, the last trading day of the year. In 2022, the Dow fell about 9%.

A year of losses for the S&P 500. The top index of US stocks hit an all-time high in January 2022. It was downhill from there. The S&P 500 lost 19.4% over the past 12 months, notching its worst year since 2008.

The Nasdaq Composite Index was down 0.1% Friday, close to its lowest level since July 2020. The tech-heavy index has been battered this year, falling 33%.


https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/30/investing/dow-stock-market-2022/index.html

WSHazel

(639 posts)
4. The market will not care what he calls it.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 05:16 PM
Apr 2025

A duck is a duck. China plays with its GDP numbers and the market adjusts for it.

unblock

(56,005 posts)
5. The contraction likely began mid-to-late February, march was worse, and the tariff nonsense is just a disaster.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 05:16 PM
Apr 2025

NBER is usually cautious in calling recessions, and they're often over or nearly so before they're officially declared. But I'm pretty sure they'll date it as having started in the second half of q1.

unblock

(56,005 posts)
13. Putin has ordered Donnie to inflict maximum pain.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 08:31 PM
Apr 2025

We've had administrations harm our economy due to ignorance or ineptness, but never due to knowing and willful indifference (at best) to the damage.

Worse, Donnie seems determined to override all objections in order to keep the pain going, one way or another.

I think we're headed for a major contraction until he leaves office, one way or another.

travelingthrulife

(4,599 posts)
24. Well, he is certainly solidifying China's position as world power.
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 09:17 AM
Apr 2025

Do you suppose this was the agreement between the dictators of Russia and China and Demented Donnie?

unblock

(56,005 posts)
25. I'm don't think Donnie has a clue.
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 09:39 AM
Apr 2025

They tell him what to do and he obeys.

He's got to be the most easily manipulated national leader ever.

Skittles

(169,865 posts)
8. you need to start posting more, WSHazel
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 07:51 PM
Apr 2025

your kind of expertise is highly welcome these days here on DU

WSHazel

(639 posts)
14. Thank you
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 08:32 PM
Apr 2025

I tread carefully on a lot of topics because I do not have a lot of expertise on many areas of policy, but I do know a bit about markets. I believe the markets will decide the future of our country over the next 6 months or so.

Skittles

(169,865 posts)
17. scary times
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 09:15 PM
Apr 2025

I cannot imagine what it's like even for the pros managing retirement accounts right now, what a clusterf*** Trump.2 is

Igel

(37,408 posts)
9. Note a very subtle difference in meaning.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 07:55 PM
Apr 2025

"Mike, somebody ran over our dog just outside our driveway."

"Sorry, Sue, I was pretty soused last night. I might have killed your dog but don't remember."

Versus,

"Sorry, Sue, I was pretty soused last night, but remember clearly. I killed you dog."

One states a possibility; the other states a fact.

I

WSHazel

(639 posts)
15. When Black Rock's CEO states we may be in a recession
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 08:35 PM
Apr 2025

he really means we may be in a Depression. Between Fink and Dalio's public statements this weekend, Wall Street is blaring its sirens.

hatrack

(64,357 posts)
12. Yes, we're in the "Creaking Noises Coming From 2 Bear Stearns CDO Funds" Phase.
Sun Apr 13, 2025, 08:25 PM
Apr 2025

The exciting stuff comes later - by the end of the summer, I'd guesstimate.

onenote

(46,009 posts)
21. How is he defining "recession"?
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 08:38 AM
Apr 2025

The generally accepted definition is two successive quarters of negative GDP. GDP during the fourth quarter of 2024 -- President Biden's last quarter -- grew more slowly than the previous quarter but still grew by 2.4%. And while data for the quarter ending March 2025 hasn't been released, it is unlikely to to show negative GDP.

WSHazel

(639 posts)
23. Normal definition
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 08:57 AM
Apr 2025

2 straight quarters of negative growth. There is definitely a Summer 2008 vibe in the economy and the market, so I agree with Fink but we will find out soon enough. If we trust the data.

But the markets are off to a great start this morning, so maybe Dalio, Fink, Dimon and Solomon (Goldman’s CEO) are all wrong with their recent negative comments.

Maybe Trumponomics will turn 250 years of economic theory and analysis on its side, and we will find out that an authoritarian regime run by a volatile, vindictive narcissist is the path to economic nirvana.

unblock

(56,005 posts)
26. NBER defines recession differently, and more reasonably from an economist's perspective.
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 09:55 AM
Apr 2025

the "two quarters of negative growth" definition is more what the media latches on to because it's simple, but obviously leaves much to be desired. first and foremost, the arbitrary cutoff dates of the quarters can mask major changes in economic activity. in this case, we very likely contracted in march, but january's activity (including a big build-up of inventories in advance of anticipated tariffs) may have been enough to make the first quarter as a whole positive, even if contraction started in march or even mid-to-late february.

here's NBER's take, from their q&a:

--
https://www.nber.org/research/business-cycle-dating/business-cycle-dating-procedure-frequently-asked-questions

Q: What is a recession? What is an expansion?

A: The NBER's traditional definition of a recession is that it is a significant decline in economic activity that is spread across the economy and that lasts more than a few months. The committee's view is that while each of the three criteria—depth, diffusion, and duration—needs to be met individually to some degree, extreme conditions revealed by one criterion may partially offset weaker indications from another. For example, in the case of the February 2020 peak in economic activity, we concluded that the drop in activity had been so great and so widely diffused throughout the economy that the downturn should be classified as a recession even if it proved to be quite brief. The committee subsequently determined that the trough occurred two months after the peak, in April 2020. An expansion is a period when the economy is not in a recession. Expansion is the normal state of the economy; most recessions are brief. However, the time that it takes for the economy to return to its previous peak level of activity may be quite extended.
--


the covid contractions is a great example. it was the sharpest contraction america has ever had. it would be ridiculous to ignore it simply because it didn't last 6 months or 2 quarters.

Happy Hoosier

(9,431 posts)
22. Pretty much all my retirement is in Wall Street...
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 08:40 AM
Apr 2025

So I want it to do reasonably well.

And yeah, I expect we're in a recession already.

flamingdem

(40,812 posts)
29. Cnbc's David Faber and Steve Liesman have been honest
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 03:14 PM
Apr 2025

and even Cramer has called the tariffs idiotic.

WSHazel

(639 posts)
31. CNBC was cheerleading for Trump in January
Mon Apr 14, 2025, 08:22 PM
Apr 2025

Not anymore.

I watch Bloomberg anyway. Much more reasonable tone. I like Jonathan Ferro and Tom Keene.

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