If Obama cuts social security

[Pharaoh]

And Medicare, what was the point of him being elected. He ran against that. Not only that, we paid into those programs, it's not our fault that the government spent our pensions for wars and tax breaks for the rich.

He has a mandate, and he should use it.

[MjolnirTime]

1. The Sky is falling. Yes?

[grahamhgreen]

37. "This Guy is Failing", yes.

[6502]

52. WTF! 20+ kids were gunned...

... down like 2 days ago and we're posting and commenting on this irrelevant shit?

P.R.I.O.R.I.T.I.E.S E.V.E.R.Y.B.O.D.Y!!!

Drop this now!

20+ kids DEAD!
Teachers DEAD!

And the NRA still wants us to let them let kids keep getting killed!!!

The NRA are on the FUCKING ROPES and your getting distracted over hypothetical shit??


And how does the Daily LOLCATS keep getting up front when we got dead kids????
Or those "Oh, the Repubes are so bad... let's BOOOO!!" posts????
Or posts like this one, the "Oh, Obama might not do what we wa----nt!" posts??

How the fuck does that shit make it to the front page anyway?


Look at yourselves?
How many of you have already commented on shit like this?
How many of you have REC'D shit like this?
Look at all of those posts your posting on?

Look at the front page... Where are the posts about getting the NRA for their hand in the death of those kids????

Jesus Christ on a Tricycle!
Get off this shit and only keep stuff about "STOPPING THE NRA FROM KILLING OUR KIDS" ON THE FRONT PAGE!!!

And none of that "Oh, BOOO at the NRA" do-nothing bullshit.

I mean: feet on the ground, blisters on your hands and tears pouring from your eyes as you physically stand in the face of every Rep that supports this nuttiness --- and I mean right where they feel your breath --- and know that they stand in the way of your children, your friends, children, your cousins, your aunt's, all of them AND THAT THEY HAVE TO GET THROUGH YOU TO EVEN LET THE WIND TOUCH THEIR HAIR!!!!

And that you will not be ignored, not be made to wait for later, not patient for discussion or review --- that you will take not take "NO" for an answer.

Get on the fucking bubble!

** EDIT: After I walked away, I realized something: All the things we want depends on this just ONE win against the NRA.

The NRA is totally on the ropes.
They have GOPers/RWers who are "having a change of heart" or "wanting to discuss "balanced approaches".

Heck... let's look. The RWers are against.

Roping in the NRA and gun nuts with real regulations.
Social Security.
Medicare.
Taxing the 1%.
Healthcare.
Workers Rights.
Unionization.
Fair Wages.

All we have to do is win ONE of those.
If we win any ONE....
... then we win them ALL.

Right now, the easy one to win is tossing a lasso around the NRA and roping them in.

We come out there in numbers and push and win that....
... heck... after that, we know the formula for how to win the rest.

And we all want to win.
I know you do.

You can almost get a faint taste of it...

Click the link in my sig... to taste more of what that could be....

[Honeycombe8]

69. More than one issue can be discussed on the same day. Both are important. If you were on Social

Security (and I know from your post that you are not), you would realize just how important that issue is to millions who live counting pennies from month to month. A decrease in SS means they may not be able to pay their Medicare supp. ins. policy and get the medicine that keeps them alive or healthy or feeling well.

Both issues are very important.

[BeyondGeography]

2. What is it about John Lennon avatars that makes people annoying?

[MjolnirTime]

3. He would be pissed that they try to appear open-minded by wearing him like a hat.

[Marr]

6. Well, they tend to be Democrats.

Maybe that's it. Are you lost?

[BeyondGeography]

7. The OP is apparently lost

He's wondering what was the point of a Democrat winning re-election.

[Marr]

8. I notice you left out the "if he cuts Social Security".

Was that the part that annoyed you?

[BeyondGeography]

13. No; the absence of all perspective is what annoys me

Anyone who seriously thinks that Romeny would have done no worse than chained CPI (with protections for the vulnerable) while leaving Medicare intact is out of their fucking mind,

[Marr]

46. How could Romney do any worse?

I have been regularly, constantly assured over the last four years that Obama could not be expected to do anything big, because the minority party could block him.

Which is it? Should I be frightened to death of a Republican president, or understanding of a Democratic president's inability to push a liberal agenda because his party doesn't have any overwhelming majority in Congress? It can't be both.

[Arcanetrance]

51. So should we thank the president for giving us some lube while he institutes Republican

Light policies. We as Democrats supported and voted for a Democrat not a Republican

[Autumn]

20. I agree. Especially if he cuts Social Security

if that happens I will be wondering what was the point of a Democrat winning re-election. Hell I will be wondering why the hell did I vote.

[roguevalley]

33. actually, it is a concern. Belittling it doesn't remove

the possibility. Remember that if he does.

[newfie11]

4. Damn right

Dems in congress better wake up. If this goes through they may pay the price in the next election.

[Walk away]

15. Good! Let's all stay home for the mid-terms!

That worked so well in 2010!!!

[newfie11]

18. It worked so well in 2012

I have voted dem in every election starting in the 60's and will vote next time. If the c-CPI goes through I will be voting for a third party. I won't be staying home for sure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is bullshit.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

27. If the c-CPI goes through without any objection from my local politicians, I will vote in the

primaries against them.

If they are Democrats, why aren't they involved in this? Why do they get to sit on the sidelines?

[plethoro]

31. There is no "may" about it. I have a

diabetic website that has around 82,000 people on it that I started 1996. Since the Obama turn I have gotten emails and text messages non-stop. I'll put out a reco tomorrow on what we should do if this ends being an actual betrayal.

[Faryn Balyncd]

5. agreed

[graham4anything]

9. When you watch a baseball game, do you leave in the second inning?

Do you go to the movies and leave 30 minutes into every film?

Do you go to a fancy restaurant that has a 5 course meal, and leave after the salad?

Do you get on a bus, and instead of waiting for your stop, get off 10 seconds after getting on and walking the 10 miles you still had to travel?

Do you get to the dessert and stop for gas to fill up the empty tank, and get so impatient, after 1/2 a gallon you pull the hose out and immediately run out of gas 20 minutes later?

Personally, anything President Obama does is fine by me. Hasn't made one mistake yet,
and I expect zero to come.

But then, I fill up my tank, I stay in the movies til the last credit has rolled, I leave a baseball game after the last out, and wait for the stop I was going before getting off the bus.
And if I only wanted a salad, why would I order a 5 course meal?

[Doctor_J]

24. Ah, here comes the chess argument

that's how we ended up with insurance mandates w/ no public option, with billionaries' tax cut extensions, more debt, Gitmo, drones, and a congressional slaughter in 2010.

[graham4anything]

28. I think the 2010 candidates worked very well...showed America how bad Repub/tea/libertarians are

absolutists want 100% and get nothing, but then are happy because it allows whining to continue (much like Rush Limbaugh on the other side).


Better yet, don't vote for Dems in 2014, that way you can in 4 more years talk about the congressional slaughter in 2014.

go ahead and vote for Jeb Bush or Rand Paul in 2016. It's America, you are free to do as you will.

[mac56]

39. this

[Doctor_J]

47. Even MORE chess

Give the Repukes everything they want, then people will see how bad it is,

If the president wants to govern like a Repuke, then he should plan to get enough Repukes to vote for him/his policies win the mid-terms. OTOH if he wants Dems to flock to the polls, he should try working for us instead of Wall Street and Boner.

[graham4anything]

56. How's that 3rd Party crap of Ralph Nader doing for you that led directly to W winning NH in 2000?

without Ralph Nader, the nation would not have gone bankrupt after 2001.
That same crap in 2000, awww, the parties are the same vote for Nader
well, how that turn out for you?
Without Ralph Nader, Gore and his lock box would have won
But then last time I looked, because of Ralph Nader, my placemat of the Presidents did not include either of Al Gore or John Kerry
All because of Ralph Nader

again, be my guest, go vote for Nader or the current lookalike in 2016 and all the repub/tea/liberts in 2014 so that you can say it's Obama's fault.

No, it was Ralph Nader's fault then, and would be again(whomever this years ugly face of losing would be in place of Nader).

BTW, a million people work on Wall Street, 9 to 5ers hard sweaters.

You mean those people(and the ones that work nationwide for those firms)...are you saying all of them should lose their job?

Seems to me rather Scrooge like this Christmas season to wish they had no company to work for.

I hate stereotyping, and blaming "Wall Street" means putting millions of people as one because perhaps you don't like 3 or 4 of them. Why not name the CEO you don't like, instead of naming a street of cobblestones and hard workers.

And why not blame 9-11 as that is the event that caused the bankruptcy of America.

and in circular fashion, 9-11, blame W and Cheney and those people. Because Wall Street had nothing to do with 9-11, but Ralph Nader directly caused it to happen with his meddling in a federal election in 2000 all because he had the biggest ego in the history of the world.

Oh, and tell me, how is Sonya & Elena Kagen the same as Alito and Roberts?
Had Ralph Nader not been in the 2000 race, Gore would have named two like the first two I said, and Alito and Roberts would still be working at their prior post.

I guess you don't realize that the 3 presidents better than Obama all compromised to get the best they could too?

Lincoln, well that is now legendary
FDR- you think he got 100%?
and LBJ- he had to have Republicans help him get all those hundreds of bills he passed, because the racists at that time were southern democrats who tried to stop him

and it took 100 years from Lincoln to LBJ to actually see any real change of the 13th
and it took another 50 years from LBJ to Obama

and now you want 100% done in a few seconds historically speaking???

It takes alot of work.

And has it dawned on you that by getting support on their side, it takes away issues that they could use in 2014 and 2016, being that they are supporting it?

It will continue to fracture their party, which has no voters to begin with and lead to continuation of Barack Obama's dream in 2016 and 2020 with Hillary.
(and the biggest liberal in the house, Nancy Pelosi just yesterday basically endorsed her for 2016).

We got the foundation in, we got the 2 floors, basement, and roof now in
but it takes alot of work to keep it from all falling back
Therefore, it takes reinforcement, and help to stand mighty

And I trust Obama 100% because yes, he sees things way ahead, with each step

and the prize at the end

BTW, we should all have a system like France. They don't have social security there at all.
Just they pay MORE TAXES while healthy and working, and in return they get MORE benefits
and a good retirement.
Social Security is nice, however, France's system is nicer. One actually lives pretty nice there after work, and as people worldwide are getting older, people are active alot longer too.

Put everything together, and well, you can whine and wish for 100% and you will get nothing
or keep working WITHIN to keep democrats elected in 2014

I think even if in ten years it was $100 more, well in ten years you yourself can save $120 a month to make up for what POSSIBLY will be that or not.

It's not as if he got rid of Social Security you know.

And he takes away a bargaining chip off the next issue and so forth.

And tell me, wihtout his health care plan of 4 years ago, we would still be at nothing at all.

Now we are on the cusp of even better, but it takes moving forward to be able to again move forward which we are. More and more red states are falling into the trap and before you know it, it will be what you whiners had wanted then but was impossible to get.

Imagine if they were starting at square one now. You would still be whining, and there would be zero chance of anything at all.

So make sure to vote against the Dems in 2014, so you can continue to whine, because when you get everything you want, you won't have anything left to whine about.

You do realize- it could be SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much worse but that patch of blue up in the sky? It's only the clouds you see.

And that Redwood tree? Oh, it grew in 30 seconds after the seed was planted.
(speaking of the environment and climate control, Bush was so much better than Gore on that issue, wasn't he, thanks Ralph Nader).

(moral of story? I could have spent all this time whining about Ralph Nader...except that we in 2008 made sure never again to be fooled by egotist liars like him and their lies that both parties are the same). I am sure Rand and Ron Paul would have or will get you 100% of what you want. Yeah, sure.

[Earth_First]

26. Ahhh, yes... the "wait for it"

Stockholm Syndrome, anyone...?

[spanone]

10. if.

[leftstreet]

11. No Republican could get away with it n/t

[democrattotheend]

12. Because Romney would have privatized it

And turned Medicare into a voucher.

The chained CPI sucks but at least it maintains the structure of Social Security.

[FLyellowdog]

14. Don't worry.

I emailed the President today and asked him to follow through with his campaign promise not to gut SS.

Now I feel a whole lot better.

[customerserviceguy]

16. The point is

we get to pick the way that the system is kept solvent, and not our enemies. Believe me, they'd do way worse than tweak a formula if they were in full power.

The President's mandate is to use some modicum of fairness and equity in making sure that Social Security and Medicare survive the baby bust.

[Chef Eric]

40. "We"? We pick nothing. The President and Congress pick.

And there is no "fairness" in transitioning to chained CPI. "Fairness" would mean eliminating the cap on earnings subject to the payroll tax.

[customerserviceguy]

62. There are a number of things that need to be done

Chained CPI is only one tool. I've advocated a total removal of the employer FICA cap, if some megabank wants to pay some asshat CEO ten million dollars to run the thing into the ground, then they can afford to pay FICA tax on all ten million.

Raising caps on workers sounds fine, but then it also boosts the maximum benefit. Wouldn't it be deeply ironic if retiring baby boomer rich folks can pay the new rate for only a few years, then get maybe an extra thousand dollars a month from Social Security for the rest of their well-fed lives? Maybe part of the answer is a new "tier" of benefits for any additional cap raises, with the tiers tied to the CPI, even a chained one.

And here's the reality: We may well have to raise FICA tax rates. The boomers saw them go up dramatically during their working years, and that's what's kept the thing afloat so far. There hasn't been a raise in those tax rates in a very long time.

Also, we might have to think about raising the age for full benefits, while differentiating between types of work. I'd be happy to wait until 70 if it meant that a person of my age who works at hard labor gets to collect full benefits at 65 (instead of waiting until 67, as we both have to under current law). As we shift more from a labor-intensive society to an automated one with most jobs being in less demanding service industries, we move to a higher average retirement age in an equitable fashion.

It's going to take a lot of thought and study to figure out what to do, and it just can't be accomplished in a year-end mad dash.

[Doctor_J]

48. Actually the president's mandate, like it was in 2009,

is to NOT adopt Republican policies. He failed miserably at that in his first term, and looks like he will again. There is nothing fair or equitable about cutting benefits from the Old, poor, and sick.

[customerserviceguy]

63. When Social Security goes belly up

as it will with no changes, who's going to look out for the old, poor and sick then?

I"m in agreement, a last second bone thrown to the Repukes is not the way to do this, but at some point, we will have to have a serious discussion about where things are going, and how to equitably plan for them.

[Doctor_J]

64. SS is not going to go belly up, ever

How do so many Fox "News" memes end up on DU? the dire predictions for its demise in 3 decades are based on worst-case economic scenarios. If we raise the cap, or get people working again, even those lies become untenable.

[customerserviceguy]

66. It's just simple math

We have more people retiring than are coming into the workforce every year since at least the beginning of the Great Recession. Those taking jobs find them paying less and less, and the baby boom is coming at the system like a tsunami.

Every year for the past four or five, the day when less than 100% of calculated benefits drops by about three years. I don't see anything reversing that trend. It's impossible for businesses and governments to accurately forecast for even five years, why does a 20 to 30 year forecast seem more reliable?

[Doctor_J]

17. One of the themes of the campaign was, "they're going to cut SS, I'm not"

which we now know was bullshit.

I think he will use the political capital to move to the RIGHT. Ever since he took office his strategy has been position himself just a hair to the left of the fascists, then say "Look, I'm not as bad as they are". The Newtown tragedy has provided him an opening for another such coup. Even if he slashes SS/Medicare, he can now say, "Well, the NRA hates me so I'm still better than the Republicans".

[newfie11]

19. You got that right

People seem to forget that.

[plethoro]

32. He won't get away with this. Once it's official you'll see abject outrage.

dddddddd

[woo me with science]

21. +1 People don't take kindly to being lied to

and stolen from.

And this is not just about Social Security.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2020314

[bhikkhu]

22. Everyone agrees that Medicare needs reform

Which means "cutting" or generating savings somehow or other. You can't say anyone ran against that. Looking at the projection -

[Doctor_J]

23. Yes, by expanding it, not cutting it

Bring healthy people in, and all of the problems are solved. That is the way the civilized countries do it. The "Cuts have to be made" is a Republican talking point. Please take it over to freeperville.

[Fearless]

30. Yep!

[Flatulo]

36. But do the civilized countries have the same ridiculous rate of increase in costs that we have?

[bhikkhu]

43. I think the underlying hope is that the ACA changes the whole cost structure

which is possible, or even likely over time. It is modelled on the most cost-effective working systems there are. The projection above is from the CBO, which only looks at the trend in the actual data projected forward.

[Doctor_J]

50. No, because the drug companies and the AMA don't run the country there

like they do here. If in a civilized country something like Medicare Part D (for Drug Company) were to pass, the nation would be shut down, and probably a few politicians would end up like Mussolini. Here Big Media can talk the masses into just about anything.

[bhikkhu]

41. Maybe, but nobody ran on that

and there are no plans to do it. Advocating something that isn't going to happen is fine, but no really an option if you're responsible, or if you give a shit about whether the program still works in a few years.

The best pre-election write-up of our party's plan for medicare reform (not found in the abbreviated platform statement) is here:

http://medicarenewsgroup.com/context/understanding-medicare-blog/understanding-medicare-blog/2012/09/21/the-democratic-party%27s-approach-to-medicare-reform

[Doctor_J]

45. The president didn't run on cutting it either

but he's going to

[Pharaoh]

59. The poisin pill to Medicare

During the Bush rein of terror. Was to pass a bill in the middle of the night that Medicare cannot negotiate with the drug co.s and will pay whatever the drug co.'s want. That accounts for a fuck of a lot of money being bled from medicare. How much? It's anyone's guess . but I would say it's a fuck load over the long haul.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

25. As said by Eli Wallach: "If God didn't want them sheared, he would not have made them sheep."

[Fearless]

29. Exactly!

[Bozita]

34. Back in the '60s, my polisci prof repeatedly stated that Social Security could only be cut by...

... Democrats. He was talking about the future.

A lot of water has flowed under the political bridge since then, but his firm belief remains true.

Shame on President Obama if he dares prove this liberal GOPer professor correct.

BTW, this prof later left teaching for a high position in Michigan Gov. Bill Milliken's inner circle. (Milliken endorsed Obama in the presidential election of 2008.)

[Doctor_J]

35. True. Smirk couldn't do it

But now look how many so-called dems are in favor of cuts now that Obama is on board. Truly disgusting.

[INdemo]

38. When Obama repeated the fact about no cuts to Soc Sec

I voted instead of just staying home....wow my voted sure did count didnt it?

[Neon2012]

42. Cuts can be good.

Cutting inefficiencies = Good
(We voted for that.)

Cutting benefits = Bad

My bet is that he is remaining true to his word.

[JEB]

44. I will wait and see, but

anybody that supports cuts in benefits to old folks and the poor and the disabled to keep rich people's taxes low .....well they will NEVER get my vote again and they can FOAD.

[femrap]

49. A prediction:

Obama will throw SS and Medicare under the bus along with us old folks....it will be done between Xmas and NYE while everyone is busy eating, drinking, and trying to be happy.

MSM will report on it in 15 second blurb during the evening news. They will make it sound good.

And 2014 will let more repugnants into the governorships, House, and Senate.

And all along The Empire will continue to crumble....and more and more people will fall into poverty.

Pretty soon we won't be able to buy pitchforks. I have noticed that they are all made in China though.

[Beacool]

53. Good question.

But I don't know the answer. Maybe because he was a tad saner than what the Republicans had to offer? Not a fan, so I have low expectations. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he agreed to a cut in entitlements.

[amborin]

54. he campaigned on a public option the first time; we know how that turned out n/t

[area51]

60. +1

Not to mention that there's another thread on this board about how Obama has admitted his policies make him a moderate republican of the '80s. He's not a leftist, or he would have fought for at least a public option to save lives instead of wanting to enslave us to for-profit, serial killer insurance companies.

[Doctor_J]

65. Shh! We're not allowed to mention that

or the comfortable shoes or the other betrayals

[bluestate10]

55. I signed a an email tonight to President Obama.

I added some of my own words and stated that the President made a promise to millions of people that believed him and voted for him and now it appears that he is going back on that promise. I pointed out that I consider proposing change to Social Security by the President an abandonment of people that placed faith in him. I have pointed out repeatedly that I am one DU member that will lose nothing if Social Security is changed massively or even eliminated, but when the President campaigned and made promises to millions of americans that do need Social Security, even if they didn't vote for the President, I expected the President to keep his word. I am sure that many of the President's campaign staff and field workers expected him to keep his word, I am saddened to hear that the President may not keep his word. I have no fear of going off the fiscal cliff if that means the most important programs in our nation are protected.

[BigBearJohn]

57. and Republicans will have a great belly laugh at us and our great negotiator: "he sure showed us!!"

And O will walk around proudly for saving us from falling off the cliff.
We fell off the cliff when we voted him back into office.

[marew]

61. Amen!

I so regret every penny I donated and every minute I volunteered!

[WorseBeforeBetter]

67. Rope-a-dope, baby!

Boehner didn't exactly expend too much energy during his 60-second press conference today.

[woo me with science]

58. kick

[NashvilleLefty]

68. Oh, great. Yet another anti-Obama thread.