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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThe Fix Is In...
Though Liberals Carp at Chained CPI, Pelosi Says She Could Live With ItBy: David Dayen - FDL
Tuesday December 18, 2012 2:20 pm
<snip>
Others will have to live with it, too.
Many of what would be described as the liberal left of Congress have weighed in against using the chained CPI to calculate cost of living increases in Social Security benefits. Heres a representative sample from Sen. Jeff Merkley:
I mean thats precisely it. You will hear virtually nobody claim that chained CPI represents a more accurate way of determining the cost of living for senior citizens on Social Security, because if they were honest about it, they would tailor an inflation index to the real costs of seniors. The only benefit to chained CPI is that it saves the government money at the expense of senior citizens. Thats it. Its a back-door way of lowering the benefit. Even if you agree with the methodology of the substitution effect, that people will manage the cost of living by purchasing less expensive products, you have to ask yourself if seniors have been getting away with murder all these years under the old rules. And considering they get an average annual benefit of just $13,000, and that almost half of them use that as their only form of income, without savings or anything else to fall back on, the very idea is preposterous. And the public, who has a working knowledge of Social Security benefits and how far they stretch, agrees.
Regardless of the carping of a few of those liberals and the majority of the country, however, Nancy Pelosi basically gave the game away: she will force her charges to stick with the President.
Do you think you could sell it to your caucus? MSNBC host Andrea Mitchell asked Pelosi in an interview on Tuesday.
I do, replied Pelosi, adding, Yes, the Democrats will stick with the president and maybe not every single one of them.
Pelosi tried to emphasize the unformed idea that there would be protections for the most vulnerable. For example, the disabled on Supplemental Security Income might not be subject to chained CPI, and there could be a bump-up for people aged 80, to compensate for the cumulative effect of the benefit cut. Again, the vulnerable are a massive part of this population. This is almost the entire income source for almost half of seniors, and for 3/4 of widows or unmarried women. And 15.1% of seniors live in poverty. And if you hold all of them harmless, you erode the actual savings you can derive from this. The three-legged stool of retirement has withered away, especially since the dot-com bust and the Great Recession. This argues strongly for increasing Social Security benefits, not cutting them and not even mitigating cuts.
White House Press Secretary Jay Carney called this a technical fix to better calculate inflation. Bullshit. If this were just a technical fix, you would adjust so that the fix wouldnt hit beneficiaries in a regressive fashion, with the most pain at the bottom. This plan doesnt, to any real degree. The goal isnt to properly measure inflation, its to save money for the federal government. It always has been.
A similar dynamic is behind the popularity of raising the retirement age, or the Medicare eligibility age: Its advocates can pretend that its not a cut, but a technical adjustment made to account for the fact that Americans are living longer. Compared to other approaches to cutting benefits, raising the retirement age is, again, a substantively unwise, regressive approach. But it can be justified as a mere technocratic tweak.
The phrase banality of evil comes to mind.
<snip>
More: http://news.firedoglake.com/2012/12/18/though-liberals-carp-at-chained-cpi-pelosi-says-she-could-live-with-it/
liberal N proud
(60,800 posts)My company announced last month the end of our pension and my job is in question at this point anyway, now I can kiss a livable SS & Medicare benifit. One more thing I have paid into all my life and cannot rely on.
villager
(26,001 posts)Alas.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)She's rich!
neverforget
(9,445 posts)I think it's BS but I might be persuaded by Third Way Manny
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Old people will die soon; no sense in prolonging the inevitable.
Freezing and starving are much better ways to die than Liberals would have you believe.
Regards,
Third-Way Manny
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I am looking at another 30 years minimum.
It would be better for my wife if I were to stop taking my blood pressure medication tonight and start eating a lot of salt in my diet so I could die in the next few weeks. That way she gets my company life insurance, our 401K, AND my SSDI combined with hers. At least she could retire in 15 years.
On edit: Yep, that's the only answer. No more blood pressure meds for me. Time to just snuff it.
Skittles
(157,089 posts)for retirement to become as extinct as pensions
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)At least she'd still be in her sixties.
I simply CANNOT face another 30 years of work. I'll be 80.
Skittles
(157,089 posts)get on that phone and start writing
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I don;t think it'll work. I've been down this road before on other issues. Never seems to make any difference on our side but let one teabagger get their knickers in a bunch and the GOP locks arms.
Skittles
(157,089 posts)I have over the past 30 years watched Democrats drifting to the right and it reflects in the state of the country
WillyT
(72,631 posts)RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Why even bother?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)It's become a business decision. Financially, it is what is best for those I love. Otherwise, we'll both be working our lives away. This way, she at least gets to retire.
All I have to do is let nature take its natural course.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)She deserves AT LEAST That.
Skittles
(157,089 posts)you know that is not what she wants, and it's not what we want - you are a human being - you must to stay and fight; you are not alone - we are here for you
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Business decisions rarely are when you look at the human equation.
Sorry if it all sounds callous. I am a consultant and I make recommendations on a daily basis that take nothing but business decisions into account on a daily basis.
This is just another in a long line of business decisions in my life.
femrap
(13,418 posts)you're saying. The least our gov't can do is let us decide if we want help off of this planet. I mean if they don't want to help us live with a bit of dignity in our old age, then let us go. Put us out of our misery.
Hell, we have tons of heroin from Afghanistan....just shot us up and let us go peacefully. Or do we have to drink drain cleaner??? Or buy a gun and blow our brains out?
They all talk about how wonderful life is....give me a break. Taking food and medicine away from the elderly does not make our lives wonderful.
Just kill us so the gov't and the rich can steal all of that money that we put into FICA for our old age.
At least the Eskimos put the old on a floe....
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Under a worst case scenario, I can throw myself in front of a train in another year when actual suicide would be covered under my life insurance.
I'd rather just die from the inevitable heart attack or stroke that would come from high blood pressure, though.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Take a deep breath, find a support group...
You may think you're doing your loved ones a favor... I bet, with every fiber in my body... they would disagree with you.
Let them continue to love you.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Nobody is forced to take medications.
If I simply allow nature to take its course, it is better financially than taking those meds and risking being "laid off for reduction in force" due to my age.
I know for a fact that shit is coming. I always thought that with everything else, counting on SS being there at 65 would handle it.
That's gone now.
Now all I have is insuring my wife will be taken care of.
I have no choice but to think in terms of worst case scenarios. If I can hang on for at least five years, things will be much better for my wife. If I get laid off in 18 months, taking the COBRA and keeping in mind that my life insurance is a part of that and it has to pay even in the case of susicide has to be taken into account.
You cannot proceed in any financial decision without also taking into account a worst case scenario. Worst case scenario is I get laid off 18 months from now.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Beforehand.
Or is she gonna be left out of the loop and find out the hard way.
Good luck to you and yours... sincerely.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I take my BP meds at night. Today is day 1 of no BP meds.
It won't happen tonight.
It won't happen this weekend.
It probably won't happen for several years,
When it happens, I will seek no help. I will simply let it happen.
From a strictly business standpoint, this is the only decision to be made. Sacrificing future potential in my life insures my wife can retire in comfort. My life insurance is worth almost seven figures.
We have no children.
We have nobody else but ourselves in this.
I would rather this than seeing us both sink into abject poverty. I am a single generation removed from abject poverty. Part of my childhood was spent in the upper levels of poverty. I spent about 18 months of my adulthood homeless. I will not return and I will not subject my wife, who has never lived in poverty, to that indignity.
This is nothing more than yet another business decision made in a life of business decisions.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Peace to you and yours.
I've had to make decisions that affected the lives of many, and I'm not proud of many of those outcomes. They may have insured more corporate profits, but they definitely hurt some individuals.
Perhaps this is Karma coming back to me to say, "when you said outsourcing these jobs is right from a business standpoint, that is now coming back on you!"
If so, I think I deserve it.
My job has hurt my soul, I think.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Skittles
(157,089 posts)that tells me your soul is still intact - I know of people who think no more about the results of their decisions than swatting away a fly landing on them
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I promise, I will compile those notes into an insider's guide to how to react to outsourcing.
Believe me, the processes require inside cooperation. Those whose jobs are outsourced can do more to insure failure than anybody else. I know precisely what must be done from the inside to insure failure while protecting those few interim months regardless of the business processes being outsourced.
Anybody kept on for an interim process can insure the outsourcing meets with failure, those managers who proporsed the outsource agreement are fired, and processes are once again insourced.
What needs to be done will serve as an appropriate self written obituary.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)I took one of the first 'Death & Dying' classes offered in the U.S.
This was in the early 70's, and the class was over-filled.
There was a guy in that class, a Carney, that was told he would be dead in a few months...
And as he told it... he told the doctor that he would live long enough to "piss on his grave".
And he actually did.
Don't know if it was luck, or good ole stubbornness.
But he told this story 16 years after he was "scheduled" to die.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)that business decision for some years. it will take some years for the effects to be fully felt, and the changes (i read somewhere) wouldn't go into effect until after obama is out of office.
don't let the fuckers get to you.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)I fall through the holes.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)femrap
(13,418 posts)different ideas on what is the best way.
RomneyLies
(3,333 posts)Hopefully, nature will do the deed and the worst case scenario never plays out.
I already have a DNR order in my living will, so a stroke is pretty much sure death.
femrap
(13,418 posts)would acknowledge my KMN (Kill Me Now)....maybe someday.
I have the DNR as well.
DJ13
(23,671 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)dflprincess
(28,362 posts)I already figured I'd be working until I'm 70 - but now I'm thinking I'll have to keep going until I drop.
Unless, of course, this is just one of those 12 dimensional chess games we used to hear about everytime Obama decided to screw the people who elected him.
Generic Other
(28,999 posts)Let the damn politicians feel our pain. After all, political office is a service. They volunteered for the job. They have no right to feel entitled to pensions or any other retirement benefits if the rest of us must give up ours. Time for them to give up their perks.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)to their principals and not vote for any tax increases. They'll take the country over the so called fiscal cliff and will be blamed!
Obama will fold. WASF.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)cliffordu
(30,994 posts)this speculation is just jerkin the gherkin.
Mel Content
(123 posts)HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)one of the richest members of congress, net worth about $60 million. and her husband is a financier.
yeah, i'm sure she can 'live with it'. the arrogance of that remark really chaps my ass.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)But cutting Social Security and Medicare will mean that elderly people, many in their 80s and 90s live and die in misery. Both acts are heartless and cruel.
The deaths of the 20 children were dramatic.
The slow and painful deaths of all those whose Social Security will be cut and who, in their 80s and 90s, have to choose between food or heat will be invisible but just as horrid.
We can blame the deaths of the 20 children on guns and a crazy person.
What about the deaths of Social Security recipients in say ten or so years? Will we look back and blame President Obama?
Quite possibly in my opinion.
Remember the levees that broke in New Orleans? What heartless president or presidents refused to prioritize repairing those levees?
And now, the levees that protect millions of American seniors from destitution are being breached. For shame.
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)BuelahWitch
(9,083 posts)Would he want something like this to happen to her if she were still alive?
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I suspect she wasn't living hand-to-mouth on Social Security.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)leftstreet
(36,201 posts)This would make a great OP
arjazz
(13 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)Blah.
bob4460
(242 posts)to take it to the streets.This CRAP needs to stop!!! This plan is awful ,WE as a people must get the will to stand up and shout!!
The US Government has taken way too much from the common man and let the rich get richer.The gerrymandered repukes are having their way with us.This country has not moved to the right the political parties have,we have to hold our nose when we vote .It is time for it to end!!
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)of Democrats and the entire leadership of the party, supporting entitlement cuts. I'm creating a video that will highlight this fact (and have been slacking on it lately thinking perhaps entitlements are off the table) but now feel an urgency to finish what I started. I think it will be an eye-opener and will hopefully give pause to our critics. The Fix has been in for quite some time and it's about to come to fruition. I'm so sick of these globalist fascists leading both parties today.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Bookmarked !!!
Liberalynn
(7,549 posts)for Facebook about Chained CPI and a pettition to sign on their website.
Lets make ourselves heard loud and clear on this.
http://www.nwlc.org/tags/chained-cpi
Start sharing them. CPI was also just trending on Twitter again. People are ticked and rightly so.
Just hope the tide of the ticked is so big, it makes The President, Pelosi and Boner drop this nonsense.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Hoyt
(54,770 posts)And there are other benefits in apparent "deal" to make me think whole package is not bad, considering where we are right now and how much an improved economy will help everyone over long haul.
arjazz
(13 posts)SHAME ON ALL OF THEM
KansDem
(28,498 posts)Do you really think they care about the working class? Middle class? Seniors? Poor? Disabled? Students?