General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am asking this as an outsider
How did serious people in the US allow these buffoons to seize government?
I am still trying to process this madness
That display today has left me in a state way beyond stunned incredulity.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
SilverDawg
(884 posts)never ended and the “Confederacy” could not vote for 1) a woman 2) a non white person. They went for the pink penis regardless of fitness or moral character. In fact, the “Confederacy” didn’t give a damn if the pink penis was an insurrectionist or a twice impeached criminal. I was born into and grew up in a former Confederate State. Sadly, voting for anything other than a candidate with a pink penis was a bridge too far.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)But then, as I have mentioned, I grew up in Hawai’i and settled in California’s Central Coast as a full adult and parent of toddlers in 1978. Not the same experience at all.
SilverDawg
(884 posts)Took me a lifetime to see this reality. The shooting war of the Civil division ended in 1865. The ideology of the Confederacy did not.
CincyDem
(7,392 posts)That was before “tickets” so Jackson was the country’s second choice…in today’s world, we call that the loser.
The loser represented the hopes of the confederacy…also the losers.
Reconstruction was great in principle but virtually all was left undone when Jackson eliminated the primary compliance benefit. He welcomed back senators from the confederate states immediately, long before those states delivered (or even started to deliver) on their obligations.
And so we’ve spent 150+ years coddling the losers who have been told by generations that they won.
wanderer54
(101 posts)CincyDem
(7,392 posts)
Polybius
(21,895 posts)It wasn't before tickets. The 12th Amendment was ratified on June 15, 1804. Before then, the runner up became Vice President.
Abraham Lincoln (and the Republican Party) selected Andrew Johnson, a War Democrat, to be his VP running mate. It was to broaden his coalition to include War Democrats as well as Republicans. It's on him.
llmart
(17,609 posts)I can assure you that they are still full of hate for Northerners. When I got there a coworker from New Jersey informed me right away of this, "You're a damned Yankee and not readily accepted until you've lived here about ten years. Then after that, you're just a Yankee."
Rec
Beringia
(5,506 posts)
gab13by13
(32,297 posts)And look at the graphs, look at the statistics where there were surges in same day voting for Krasnov, but only in every battleground state.
The fact that Kamala didn’t flip one red district to blue was not believable.
One of the machines in question was the ES&S vote tabulator. There was another suspicious machine that was not named.
Kamala Harris won the election. It’s not like this is the 1st time that Republicans stole the election.
Hekate
(100,133 posts)…of the voting machines. Smirked. Tried to make believe it was so they weren’t rigged against him. Heh-heh.
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)And the reporting systems
All non transparent
Hand counting paper ballots would of been worth the time
Meowmee
(9,212 posts)
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,506 posts)"Russia, if you're listening..." ?
Voter suppression, gerrymandering and a whole buffet of cheating is their only way to "win." 
malaise
(296,036 posts)Doubting malaise. 
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)Not in GA where I live & not anywhere else.
All anyone has is the same stuff Trump had in 2020; conspiracy theories & accusations.
We should be asking Democrats & independents who voted for trump just WHY they did if we really want to learn.
But no one wants to have THOSE discussions.
blubunyip
(286 posts)But typically you don't get a straight answer.
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)Not here anyway
It'll be shut down in 5 mins
it's very uncool to talk about election theft. But it is everywhere in America --involving multiple methods of deliberate theft.
We shouldn't be pretending it doesn't exist even though the belief in most political circles is that it discourages voters --so of course it's hushed up.
IMO the number #1 problem we have in the collapse of Democracy in America is our denial of the extent of election manipulation, suppression and theft. But maybe there is benefit in our seeing where this failure to do anything about it ultimately leads. Because we are certainly having our eyes opened.
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)My previous post said that as of today there is zero evidence that the election was stolen. And I'm not going to crow like the cult did in 2020 when nothing has been provided. It was a close election; just like then last 3
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)No human beings saw those ballots and hand counted them
Saying you trust the machines that count our votes or the software that reports the results is foolish considering the software is secret and proprietary…. You might as well say , you trust our 1% overlords to do the right thing because that’s who owns and controls those companies
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)Anyone could've paid for a recount. Why didnt they if they're SO sure it was a fraud?
Instead, why dont we ask all the democrats who voted for trump or didnt vote at ALL, WHY they did those things?
Are we afraid of the answers? I think we are.
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)“Oversee” the counting of the votes
W/o that it’s not a democracy, after all russia has elections but we are all pretty sure they are bs
But you’re saying that is good enough?
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)Recount just means running ballots through the same machine, no checks and balances
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)They still refused to accept it.
Machines print a paper ballot that is scanned. Hand counting those paper ballots resulted in the same victory by Biden. Machines are NOT connected to the internet or Starlink, which has been mentioned here several times. Its false. Do machines in ALL states print paper ballots? I dont know, but since Dominion was used by so many I'd assume they do.
And again, if we continue to blame the loss on fraud we're just setting ourselves up to lose again in '28. But if you bring up the list of reasons that contributed to the slim loss, your post will be removed. So here we are complaining about what WOULD be acceptable; to blame a "rigged" election. If the margin of victory is within a certain % any candidates campaign can request a recount. If they thought they were robbed, why didnt they ?
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)It didn’t change the outcome but a mistake that big easily could of
Just because repubs were unreasonable even after a transparent count doesn’t mean they (or any American) doesn’t deserve an open count
It’s only a few new machines that print the ballots, you are making assumptions that aren’t true
While individual machines may not be connected to the net , every reporting system is
The bottom line is in a democracy, citizens have a right to oversee the counting of the ballots, anything else is a trust me system with oligarchs being the “me”
If you want to talk about why it was close enough to steal, that’s a discussion worth having
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)If anyone with the Harris campaign thought any of these states were stolen, they shouldve said SOMETHING about it. Again, ZERO evidence.
And where did you read that "reporting systems" were connected to the internet? After the 2020 accusations every state made SURE that wasnt the case. And no, they weren't connected to Starlink either.
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)That’s on the web
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)There have been no reports of any county totals being incorrect or any other illegalities.
If we're going to stick with the "it was stolen" reason for the loss instead of asking people for the REAL reasons, expect another loss in 2028
questionseverything
(11,835 posts)For over twenty years I was involved in election audits, I learned numbers move all over the place in the days following elections
Bradblog documented one for me, it’s still in his archives list published june 4th, 2010
What’s happening in monroe county Arkansas?
Was the title, I think
Now the reporting systems are more complex and it’s harder to find the impossible numbers that show something has been altered but the non transparent part is the same
DiverDave
(5,245 posts)Stolen.
Can't see how any other conclusion can be reached.
trump admitted it.
blubunyip
(286 posts)We have a tragically corrupt election process, with widespread discouragement of participation.
I believe Kamala won also. However, now we are living the result of that theft -- paying a high price for "electing" this monster and his minions.
It's the brainwashed Magas fault, sure --but also it's the Christian Nationalists and the Wealthy donors and power brokers, all in synch. There are a lot of so-called smart successful people who voted for tRump, believing he would better protect their assets and their money hoard.
madinmaryland
(65,728 posts)Home of Antioch University.
Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)
canetoad
(20,769 posts)Especially after his gyrations trying to claim the 2020 election, it should have been obvious that there were going to be dirty tricks in 2024. As we cricketting nations say, "Straight through to the keeper."
Both my parents are rolling in their graves
bluestarone
(22,162 posts)CHOSEN TIME? Enough of i don't give a shit Americans? (That's gotta be it)
IrishAfricanAmerican
(4,463 posts)Response to malaise (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
malaise
(296,036 posts)😂😀😂Hope they go really well for you at DU
Response to malaise (Reply #19)
Name removed Message auto-removed
malaise
(296,036 posts)That is a contemptuous slur against the people of Pakistan
SammyWinstonJack
(44,316 posts)
Mariana
(15,623 posts)According to the exit polls, the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump three times. In 2024, 63% of Protestant voters and 59% of Catholic voters supported him. Most non-Christians voted against him.
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)And the LEAST Christian man ever to claim BEING one
Mariana
(15,623 posts)What is it about Christianity that causes so many of its adherents to be attracted to Trump? To be clear, when I say Christianity in this context, I mean Christianity as it is currently practiced in the US - not whatever you think Christianity is supposed to be, but what it actually is.
blubunyip
(286 posts)My Dad, who grew up with a heavy dose of protestant Christianity, says "they're ruining my religion."
Callie1979
(1,350 posts)And I never get an answer.
They THINK he's going to give them what they want
piddyprints
(15,107 posts)My husband's huge family are all obnoxious "Christians." He asked his brother once how they could all support the orange felon, and the answer was abortion. They care about nothing else. If the Dems get power again, women might actually get the right to choose again. They can't have that. So they'll overlook all of Trump's sins, making the excuse that God uses an imperfect vessel. Also, they do not think for themselves. Whatever the mega preacher says is exactly what they believe, even if it's a distortion of the Bible, because God put that person in that position, etc., and "he knows so much more than I do."
These are not stupid people. This family is extremely intelligent, although most of them wasted that intelligence going to Bible Colleges and swallowing more Kool-Aid than you can imagine. There is absolutely no reasoning with them. They are like robots.
JHB
(38,208 posts)Republican politicians knuckling under to The Big Mouth lest they be declared outcasts and have the mob turn on them has been a fixture for some 30 years. It apparently flew under some peoples; radar because TBM was not a politician or party man, it was Rush Limbaugh. And an entire media sphere was financed to do the same all across the spectrum.
There has always been part of the Conservative Movement that had a sneaking admiration for the Bolsheviks, the way a small faction played other factions off each other, screened themselves from scrutiny with Useful Idiots, and once the ground was ready made a few ruthless moves to take total control. Those Conservo-Bolsheviks have been working for this for 50 years, and these buffoons are their vehicle for bringing it about.
Iamscrewed
(486 posts)To my limited knowledge of failed democracies throughout has almost always came about because of corruption and complacency. Propaganda and the dictators play book just makes it easier.
applegrove
(132,185 posts)Last edited Wed May 7, 2025, 12:17 PM - Edit history (1)
And off shoring. It put the working people into financial dire straights. University loans too. When people feel financial anxiety they vote with passion over reason. So they were easily whipped into emotional frenzied with culture issues and gun rights and anti-abortion movement and stopped voting with reason and for their economic self interest. The GOP got 4 dyslexic/populist winning presidential candidates to spread the word in a simple way. And here we are.
KentuckyWoman
(7,400 posts)The storyline is that voters elected this. I have seen more than once the establishment cull out what they didn't want before it even gets to an election. They could have done so with our current President if they wanted. They could have neutered him during his first term if they wanted.
malaise
(296,036 posts)Rec
stillcool
(34,407 posts)"The Rich and the Super-rich", by Ferdinand Lundberg, 1968.
due to it's copyright expiration it is available as a download from the Soil & Health Library for free.
https://soilandhealth.org/copyrighted-book/the-rich-and-the-super-rich/
I just recently bought another copy but already loaned it out. I don't know how many copies I've bought over the years but it was so helpful to me. Gives me a point to extrapolate from.
Thirty years ago, a bombshell of a book appeared which told the story of the lords of wealth and their glittering clans. it was called America’s Sixty Families. It rocked the nation and became a classic.
Lundberg showed how America was ruled by a plutocracy of inherited wealth, even under the New Deal. At the time he could only provide a sampling of the economic and political patterns of those families, which, for one reason or another, had come under public scrutiny. In addition to the Sixty Families he dealt with in depth, he was able to outline the probable holdings of a few hundred other families.
----------------------------------
The author, in writing THE RICH AND THE SUPER RICH, had at his disposal infinitely richer data, monographs, Congressional investigations than were available three decades ago. They have made it possible for him to give us a book which is much more than a mere updating of America’s Sixty Families. It is, rather, a systematic study of the entire wealthy class and its familial structure. (In one important aspect It resembles America’s Sixty Families, it is written for the layman to awaken him to the real and little-known situation.)
Lundberg shows that there are 200,000 very wealthy individuals in the United States. Most of them are of some 500 super-millionaire families. Examples are 250 Du Ponts, 73 Rockefellers. Some 61% of the 200,00 inherited their wealth. These families are far wealthier than ever before. (A striking example is that author had to insert a footnote as the book went be press to report that the value of J. Paul Getty’s’ principal holdings in the oil company bearing his name had tripled since the manuscript of THE RICH AND THE SUPER-RICH went to the printer.)
These families have all the old levers of power and pelf plus a whole host of new ones created for them during the intervening decades by the politicians lawyers and judges who serve them.
malaise
(296,036 posts)Thanks.
Rec
stillcool
(34,407 posts)of the aha moments I got from it. Don't even remember who turned me on to it, but I'd read something and get all excited and have to run and tell my husband
this is probably a better link:
https://ia601408.us.archive.org/15/items/LundbergFerdinandTheRichAndTheSuperRich_201903/Lundberg_Ferdinand_-_The_rich_and_the_super-rich.pdf
malaise
(296,036 posts)Last edited Wed May 7, 2025, 08:45 AM - Edit history (1)
I think this link needs its own OP - so far reminds me of Michael Parenti’s Democracy for the Few.
Dave says
(5,424 posts)I recall reading it decades ago.
malaise
(296,036 posts)One of the few really good Pol Sci texts of all time. It’s still in print.
Dave says
(5,424 posts)Just didn’t want to gush.
(My all time favorite is Harry Braverman’s Labor and Monopoly Capitalism.)
malaise
(296,036 posts)Thanks
stillcool
(34,407 posts) don't think I've read it.malaise
(296,036 posts)Here's a more detailed look at their respective work:
Ferdinand Lundberg:
Lundberg's work, often written with a satirical approach, focused on the excesses and negative consequences of capitalism, particularly regarding wealth accumulation and its impact on societal structures.
He explored how the pursuit of profit fueled social inequalities and how consumer culture was used to manipulate and distract the public.
Lundberg's analysis often highlighted the power of the wealthy and the influence they wielded in shaping economic and political systems.
Michael Parenti:
Parenti is a prominent figure in critical analysis of the US political system and its role in global affairs.
He has explored the relationship between US economic and military power, arguing that US imperialism has a detrimental impact on both domestic and international issues.
Parenti's work often examines how state power is used to suppress democratic movements and promote policies that benefit the wealthy, often at the expense of ordinary citizens.
In essence, both Lundberg and Parenti provided critical perspectives on the workings of capitalism and the role of power in society. While Lundberg focused more on the cultural and economic impacts of consumerism and wealth inequality, Parenti's analysis focused on the political and imperialist aspects of US power and its global influence.
stillcool
(34,407 posts)on ThirdWorldTraveler the name sounded familiar. Funny how my subject matter has changed over the years. Each new administration a learning experience. I thought George W. and company were the best teachers I ever had.
https://thirdworldtraveler.com/
Dixiegrrrl
(207 posts)malaise
(296,036 posts)Keep an eye on the weather. 
Dramatic Mother's Day for sure.
Dixiegrrrl
(207 posts)This year the heat and humidity added to health issues have made the weather much more uncomfortable, so the idea of hurricane season is anxiety inducing.Good news is local power service is quite prompt with most normal storm outage issues.
Despite Taco's determination to destroy FEMA services, Southern states reaction will continue to be good, I think.
Safe skies for you too, my friend.
malaise
(296,036 posts)Our hurricane season begins on Sunday but the Eastern Pacific is off and running
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac
Celerity
(54,394 posts)
https://studsterkel.wfmt.com/programs/ferdinand-lundberg-discusses-his-book-rich-and-super-rich
Synopsis
Ferdinand Lundberg discusses his book "The rich and the super-rich" and the current state of wealth distribution and political, cultural, and social power in the United States. Topics of discussion include inherited wealth, the wealthy “Eastern Establishment” families compared to wealthy families in the American southwest, wealth and crime, and corporations. Studs reads an excerpt from F. Scott Fitzgerald’s short story “The Rich Boy” at the beginning of the program and an excerpt of an interview Studs conducted with a man who comments on his ability to get rich.
stillcool
(34,407 posts) llmart
(17,609 posts)It could be as simple as there are not enough serious people in this country.
When I'm out and about and see how so many of my fellow citizens behave and what they talk about and how absolutely ignorant they are of the most basic things, well, I chalk it up to that. They can rattle off the name of every person on their favorite sports team, but ask them who is their representative and I guarantee you they don't even know. Actually, they don't even know the basic makeup of Congress.
It's pretty disheartening.
Jack Valentino
(4,999 posts)were outnumbered by the non-serious people at the ballot box,
who only worried about the price of eggs and a bag of Doritos....
and were willing to believe Trump's lies about "prices going down on day one"
They are getting a lesson now about what a "demagogue" is.... (Trump)
blubunyip
(286 posts)"Serious" Republicons of all economic levels voted for him.
You are misrepresenting the issue. Many smart Republicon voters NOT concerned with the price of eggs or Doritos voted for him.
Jack Valentino
(4,999 posts)anyone who vehemently supports Trump is NOT a "serious Republican", IMHO....
and anyone who claims to be a "conservative", who also supports Trump, is a LIAR.
Most of what I would consider to be "serious Republicans",
by the standards of the party prior to Trump,
are now dead.
What we now have for a 'Republican party' are
a basketful of neo-nazis and new-confederates....
Too ironic for words.
blubunyip
(286 posts)about how you define conservatives. I don't get the use of the term "serious Republicans" perhaps. Are you talking about before Reagan? Because every Republican voter after that was allowing the path to this very moment. So where are these "serious" ones. Do you mean the selfish and basically cowardly ones who DON'T wear MAGA hats?
Seems we agree on the basics, but I am making a case for calling out the large contingent of "fiscal conservatives" (ha ha) who voted for this monster, knowing FULL WELL what he is. So often we progressives get into bashing the lo-info MAGAs--but they are not the only crowd that deserves blame. The smart informed ones are guilty as hell, and there are many of them. Sure, they got Rushed and Fuxed -up too, but they KNOW what they are doing.
Is there a better term for this group?
I'm open to labelling.
Jack Valentino
(4,999 posts)Kamala Harris, or third party...
The rest of them are a joke.
The party prior to Trump at least made a pretense of standing for the rule of law.
Now they don't even bother--- instead nominating a convicted felon, and attacking the courts
and the forces of law enforcement and defending the criminal or denying his crimes.
That is so beyond the pale, I think of Republicans as more of a criminal organization
than a political party, anymore-- and the representatives of the Democratic party
ought to be endlessly labeling them as such--- failing to do so IS WEAK.
blubunyip
(286 posts)are those who "made a pretense" of standing for the rule of law previously-- really any better than these who have openly defied the rule of law in every way imaginable? It may be better in the long run for us if the corruption is more clearly seen, by more constituents.
Yes Rethuglicons are a criminal organization. And Dems should be calling them out and opposing them at every opportunity. However, I tend to think there are more "serious Republicans" who voted for tRump than Kamala. The numbers, ie. the splits in the election, would indicate that. And I hope those "I Got Mine" voters rot in their self-inflicted hells.
Jack Valentino
(4,999 posts)based on the ideology of that party over the past 60 years---
those who voted for Trump have abandoned everything that this party claimed to stand for---
like 'rule of law', and defending the Constitution, among other things....
Those "i got mine" voters may find themselves "hungry" before the year is over
spanone
(141,575 posts)Reagan
Nixon
Right Wing Radio
Bush Regime
9/11
Fox news
Citizens United
Barack Obama's Election
Game Show host
malaise
(296,036 posts)Madness does not describe it bro.
moondust
(21,286 posts)Brawn over brains!!! Sadists rool!!!
DFW
(60,171 posts)A few decades ago a German folk singer re-wrote the story of the "Rattenfänger von Hameln (Pied Piper of Hamlin) " into a hit folk song. After the town's elders toss the Rattenfänger out without paying him, the children of Hameln get together to help him, but their parents are having none of it:
"Und so es geschah wo es immer geschiet, wo Ruhe gilt mehr als Recht
"Da wo die Herrschenden Ruhe wollen, geht's den Beherrschten schlecht"
And so it happened where it always happens, where calm is worth more than justice
Since where the rulers want calm, it goes badly for the ruled
Here in Europe, control freaks have always created misery where they managed to acquire control over society. The Catholic terror of the Inquisition gave way to a constant war between areas controlled by Protestants and areas controlled by Catholics. Rarely was the cruelty meted out by people who truly believed in a God of Mercy. It was all about control--of territory, of money, of the official mores of society. In the 20th century, except for when the religious control freaks found allies in like-minded political allies (Mussolini's Italy, Franco's Spain), the God Squad was replaced by supposedly secular control freaks (fascists, socialists) until all of those regimes eventually fell apart. Religious/ideological extremism always leads to control freaks running the show, because since the people quickly decide they don't want any more, rigid control is needed for those in power to stay there. The Berlin Wall and the Death Strip were built by the East Germans to keep their people in, not to keep the West Germans out. As long as they did the paperwork (and brought western money and no newspapers), West Germans were welcome to visit East Germany any time they wanted.
hlthe2b
(113,927 posts)As Angela Merkel went at him a bit, I gather it went beyond needling him at his first vote failure...
That he is meeting with Zelensky right off the bat seems positive to me, but how much is he really cozying up to the AFD? Was that mere pragmatism to get the votes or...
'Hoping for the best...
DFW
(60,171 posts)I doubt my personal take on the new Chancellor would be of great interest to the whole board, and besides, my wife can't stand him, and her personal judgement is usually laser sharp. For that matter, he doesn't seem to be really well-liked in many circles. He has just been passed over SO many times, this time, they (his party) just felt, OK, this time let him have it. He's not stupid, but a little bit like someone with a bit of an inferiority complex, and thus a chip on his shoulder, wanting to prove himself. Sort of like, "oh, yeah? I can, too do this job!"
Fortunately, his stance on the AfD seems to be rock solid with the other parties: not object if they want to support any of his initiatives in the parliament (Bundestag), but not actively work with them in any way, shape or form. As it is, the AfD is getting a country-wide scrutiny to see if their stances are unconstitutional enough to ban any of their party from holding any Federal positions at all.
One thing Merz has done that is to his credit: not even 24 hours after being sworn in, he was off to see Macron in Paris and then off to Warsaw to see the Polish government. Basically, "As head of government, I'm now the new kid on the block, so I want to re-introduce myself and open lines of communication." Whether that was his idea or that of his advisers, it was exactly the right thing to do, and a good solid show of humility in not waiting for the "neighbors" to come see him first. Giving Zelensky a prominent early slot was a welcome sign, too. Putin isn't going to be testing the waters to see what he can get away with. Germany remains solidly in Zelensky's corner, and if Macron and Merz are in synch on that, Putin will notice. As the new kid in town, obviously Merz isn't going to trash Trump verbally to the extent he deserves--not yet, anyway. He'll wait until he has an occasion where it will make for some headlines, and he has some time in the job under his belt. He's headstrong, but not an idiot.
Sometimes, it's hard to get people in larger countries to understand just what it means to live in Europe. In comparison with North America, this place is tiny, jam-packed like a sardine can. When we here in Düsseldorf talk about a shooting war in the Ukraine, we're not talking about some place on the other side of the world. There is exactly one country sitting between me and the Ukrainian border: Poland, and you can fly from one end of it to the other in less than an hour. To fly to Kyiv, if the airport were open to commercial traffic, it would take maybe two and a half hours, maybe less. I have to run down to Porto, Portugal, tomorrow. That is a longer flight than from here to Kyiv! The only reason it takes my nephew so long to get here from Kyiv is because for civilians to get from Kyiv to the West, trains or busses are the only option, and the border traffic (Poland is EU, the Ukraine is not) is sometimes held up for ten hours by border and customs issues. It takes my nephew 13 hours to get from Kyiv to Poland, another two or three hours to get to a Polish airport, and then a 60 to 70 minute flight to get here to the German Rheinland. Imagine that I am a short one hour and ten minute drive from the Dutch border, and a mere 70 or 80 minute flight to Warsaw, beyond Berlin in the east of Germany, and halfway across Poland to its eastern (Ukrainian) border. I can get to my office in the Western Netherlands (near Utrecht) in a 110 minute train ride. Two and a half hours to Brussels in Belgium, four hours to Paris, one hour, more or less, by plane to London, København, München, Vienna, Prague, Zürich. It was a two hour flight down to Barcelona on Monday. Central Europe is NOT a big place. A supersonic bomber from Moscow could be here less than two hours after takeoff.
hlthe2b
(113,927 posts)Oh, and I get the lack of appreciation for how close everything is in Europe-- and thus the intensity of Putin's threats. I, for years, have appreciated the opposite side of the coin--the irony of how people view the Northeast of the US and conversely have zero clue in trying to relate it to the West. "What do you mean it is a four-hour drive (good weather) from Denver to Grand Junction, CO or more than 5 hours across Wyoming?" 'Hard for someone living in Providence, RI, to fathom that, but it made a big difference when planning the logistics of clinical trials or other funded work in areas of the East Coast versus out West. The one area where the threats (no matter how distant) converge is with our long-forgotten trail of nuclear bomb silos from just north of Denver north to the Dakotas. Now THOSE seem quite clearly TOO close. 
Good "chatting" with you, DFW, and I hope for the best (for all of us) with this neophyte Chancellor.
DFW
(60,171 posts)He has been around the political scene here for many decades, and knows lot of people and many ropes. He was always a little pissed that his party chose Merkel over him, and never really got over the grudge. He now has to prove that he is over that, which alost nobody really believes. If he pulls off a few successes, he should be OK, but if he doesn't, or gets frustrated over something big (real or imagined), he will be hard to deal with for a while. Long term, being addressed as "Herr Bundeskanzler," which is sort of like "Mister President," will assuage his wounded ego in time. We just have to hope that no woman shows him up badly in public. Living in Merkel's shadow for 16 years was the hardest thing he ever did.
BoRaGard
(7,591 posts)Stoking the Darkside
Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)Hi! I don't want to type it out long form.
malaise
(296,036 posts)Woke
Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)Other than exile+ every last one of the willful ignoramuses for the betterment of mankind?
The connect the dots engineer is sick of waiting & exhausted?
The popcorn trail proprietor is looking exhausted & miffed?
Convincing them to not believe anything but HIS TRUTH
THAT GUY?
THAT ONE?
^3 stages of listening to his BS?
malaise
(296,036 posts) Brainfodder
(7,781 posts)They are hiding too much...
Hiding grades is one thing, but total medical lying when we can see it with our own eyes.
He is a super creep and can't help but be who he is, the red flags, the red flags as big as baseball diamonds?
34 convictions.... nope that was NOT ENOUGH!
Boxes of US Govt documents in a BATHROOM, not enough for a pause for contemplation on even that one even after he lied about having giving all of them back?
Endless excuses.
piddyprints
(15,107 posts)We had haircuts last night. The things coming out of our hairdresser's mouth left me speechless. She "just didn't like" Kamala... the same excuse she used to not vote for Hillary. Apparently, Kamala laughs too much and doesn't answer the questions. She said she doesn't believe anything on the news, but just what people tell her. She said Black Lives Matter is a cult. There was no way to talk sense into her. I'd take a wild guess that most of her clients are MAGA. Then she said, "I really don't pay attention." BUT SHE VOTES!!! 
The people on DU pay attention, but so many do not. Nothing going on has hit them yet. Like I said, though, it's probably not the entire answer. There are plenty of downright evil people in this country and all my reps in TN are included in that bunch. I can't tell you how discouraged I am.
malaise
(296,036 posts)Lots of truth there
D_Master81
(2,579 posts)There are several reasons but most of it IMO is that a majority of Americans aren’t smart, most are ignorant as to how government works, the media has “both sides” politics for 25 years and people don’t really care what happened outside of their financial situation.
Ferrets are Cool
(22,953 posts)
biocube
(215 posts)2. Running a corporate centrist 2004-esque campaign in an age of populism when mandatory sick leave referendum passes in a deep red state.
3. Both-sides-ism by legacy media, small media outlets that promote conspiracy theories.
4. Dems vastly overestimated how many angry women would show up at polls in 2024.
Baitball Blogger
(52,332 posts)What you're seeing on a federal level is a magnification of what started locally in the nineties in Florida. Maybe even eighties. Twisted legal concepts pushed by those who were after personal profits.
If I had to say when it began, it would be when the line between private and public lawyers was erased. Once public lawyers lost the concept of protecting the common good, everything else began to chisel off, breaking down with a good ole boy system that allowed locals to benefit from the opinions and blocking out outsiders.
When you look at what Trump is doing, it's the same patronage system.
Everybody else went along with it because either they had no resources to fight against it, or because they believed promises that everyone would benefit.
SocialDemocrat61
(7,629 posts)Unserious people did. Unfortunately, the unserious outnumber the serious.
Prairie_Seagull
(4,685 posts)I too am a card carrying member of the WTF club.
snowybirdie
(6,682 posts)However 40 years of some media exploiting the differences found appeal on both sides. People forgot who got them the benefits they now take for granted.
surfered
(13,444 posts)
SARose
(1,831 posts)Rush Limbaugh was growing his audience when Bill Clinton proposed a healthcare for all committee chaired by Hillary Clinton. Omg! The sky is falling! I refuse to use the misogynistic term Limbaugh used to denigrate her. Monica Lewinsky and Newt Gingrich - need I say more?
Christian Broadcasting Network was rising, tv evangelicals with fake eyelashes, and great hair. Pat Robertson, Jimmy Swaggert, Jerry Falwell, the Bakers 24/7.
Moral Majority rising
Opposition to media outlets accused of promoting an anti-family agenda
Opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment and Strategic Arms Limitation Talks
Opposition to state recognition or acceptance of homosexual acts
Prohibition of abortion, including in cases involving incest or rape[25]
Support for Christian prayers in schools
Proselytising to Jews and other non-Christians for conversion to Christianity
Wikipedia
Sound familiar?
Fox News first broadcast October 1996. 🤢
And then America elected a black man to the White House! OMG! Freak out by racist John Birchers, evangelicals and white rednecks.
Tea Party Rising
The movement supported small-government principles[10][11] and opposed the Affordable Care Act (also known as Obamacare), President Obama's signature health care legislation.[12][13]
The Tea Party movement has been described as both a popular constitutional movement[14] and as an "astroturf movement" purporting to be spontaneous and grassroots, but created by hidden elite interests.[15][16]
The movement was composed of a mixture of libertarian,[17] right-wing populist,[18] and conservative activism.[19]
It sponsored multiple protests and supported various political candidates since 2009.
Wikipedia
And then OMG Hillary rising. Conservatives with hair on fire turned to a reality TV personality, failed businessman, riding a gold elevator for help.
MAGA rising
MAGA members think that this fall from grace can be reversed through “America first” policies that would provide a greater degree of economic protectionism, greatly reduce immigration, particularly from developing countries, and encourage or enforce what MAGA members consider to be traditional American values.
Britannica
Conservatives went from Joe McCarthy to Barry Goldwater to Richard Nixon to Ronald Rayguns to W to Trump.
Conservatives went from “if Mommy is a Commie” to the rise of libertarianism to “I’m not a crook” to Ruby Ridge, OKC and Waco to “Mission Accomplished” to a red hat.
In my humble opinion…
Ol Janx Spirit
(1,007 posts)...their issues are important enough to require a figure like Turnip to solve them? The vast majority of people that bothered to vote--that I have talked to anyway--were serious about something: the price of groceries; crime; tax cuts; democracy; healthcare; national defense; trans athletes; etc. And the 2024 election was not an outlier in the sense that it was predictable from a historic perspective based on the metrics of the job approval numbers of the incumbent president, consumer confidence, and inflation.
We also have to take into account the odd "thermostatic" nature of politics: when a Democrat is in power the public tends to become more conservative, and when a Republican is in office the public tends to become more progressive. This political wobble has been pretty consistent--like the tilt of the earth on its axis--giving us seasons of more conservative and more progressive politics.
Now, throw in the primary system which has allowed the two major parties--and a winner-take-all system that favors only two parties--to force their candidates into ever-narrowing political viewpoints. The "conservative" political faction really does seem to have exploited this fact and the thermostatic political wobble to install an increasingly ideological strain of politicians in power all across the political landscape in the knowledge that it does not matter how crazy their candidates actually are. Sure, they lose a race here and there, but as the political pendulum inevitably swings back and forth they will have their day in power.... Unfortunately for all of us, that day is now for the King of Merde-a-Lardo...
Clouds Passing
(7,922 posts)electric_blue68
(26,856 posts)I did this late last night and lost it b4 I finished it ggrrrrr
•People who didn't vote.
>"No Difference"? Are they that stupid they can't see the differences after Term 1.
>Because "Palestinians"? As IF drumphf returning to the Presidency was going to help them?!!!
[Subset] Harris wasn't "Pro-Palestinian enough!" See above!!!
>Progressive purists; "Harris isn't good enough!". Oh, FFS! And...partly thanks to you we've got it reaaaal good, now, don't we??!!!!
[ I swear that ends up "aligning with" the "let's let it get so bad, the people will revolt!" Yeah? How's that (potential [democracy forbid!]) martial law working out for ya, then?! ]
>The majority (though somewhat smallish margin) of [my group 😑🤬] white women still voted for him. Arrrrggggg!
[subset] those who followed their husband's lead on drumphf. More arrggg!
>More Latinos/Hispanics voted for drumphf this time. Wtf?!
>Seems some quite well educated people (ftom last election results) like authoritarianism. And still do!
And other than that....Unless...you were unfortunately suddenly in the hospital, had a sudden debilitating illness (but not in a hospital if needs be yet), or accident, your area was suddenly hit with extreme weather, family, or bff had a sudden serious+ emergency you had go and help, somehow you couldn't schedule around work, or babies [I sure hope that'd been an even smaller group then previously].
you had no excuse for not voting!!!
I think I covered nearly everything.
I made sure I voted (by ?2 -3 days) early so whatever sudden X factor might have happened on the last day would not effect my vote.
mucholderthandirt
(1,783 posts)Going to go after poor people and fat people next, right? Going to blame black men some more? Because we're all the same and we deserve it from all you perfect people.
I'm so glad to be a member of a site where we're all appreciated and not taken for granted, where we're not judged as a single block of people.
malaise
(296,036 posts)
Emile
(42,272 posts)
ZDU
(1,258 posts)American Exceptionalism.
It's an illness.
Emile
(42,272 posts)
Ping Tung
(4,370 posts)He's made bad government entertaining in the same way. Think cage fighting, auto racing, and dog fights.
They want exciting blood rather than dull politics and governing.