Well, I learned a new word today

[senseandsensibility]

Anti-natalist. Apparently this was the "philosophy" of the bomber in Palm Springs who attacked the fertility clinic. It means the person is against reproduction or having children.

Am I the only one who never heard of this?

[Glorfindel]

1. It's new to me, also.

Odd sort of philosophy, that.

[TheProle]

2. There are pretty active Reddit groups

Ranging from Extinction Rebellion types to thumb sucking “I never asked to be born” circlejerks.

[senseandsensibility]

4. Are there women involved?

Or is this another way for young males to try to control women? The bomber was a 25 year old male I noticed.

[Sympthsical]

37. The very first thing my mind flicked to were the childfree people on Reddit.

They are . . . a whole thing.

I'm a DINK myself with no interest in having my own kids (and in my 40s, that window is rapidly closing). Just isn't really my thing.

But those people . . .

You just want to nod and slowly back away. They always come off as if they are constantly being assaulted by a swarm of bees.

[Srkdqltr]

41. DINK? you think?

Being silly

[LastDemocratInSC]

3. I bet they are fun at a party.

[SheltieLover]

10. ...

[Abolishinist]

5. The few times I've heard this I thought it was some mad-at-the-world crackpot spouting off and nothing more.

There's actually a 'philosophy' regarding this.

Benatar's asymmetry argument for antinatalism is an argument based on the difference between harms and benefits viewed in two scenarios — when the person in question exists and when the person in question never exists. The argument, introduced by David Benatar in his 2006 book, Better Never to Have Been: The Harm of Coming into Existence, aims to establish that coming into existence is always a harm for the one who's coming into the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benatar%27s_asymmetry_argument

[senseandsensibility]

7. That's interesting, and of course

people are allowed to adhere to all kinds of philosophies that seem weird or depressing to me, and certainly not to have children. But the violence?

[NJCher]

16. violence doesn't have to go with it, though

I am not a proponent of natalism, the opposite of anti-natalism.

It seems obvious there is no choice to be born, however, there are theories that spirits decide to incarnate with certain people as the parents, so if that theory is true, then there is a choice. There are actually stories out there of people who say they recall choosing their parents. Who knows if there is anything to this.

My big objection to it is that natalism is the default. Now with birth control, etc., one can somewhat choose, but what a problem if you're in a red state. Republicans want to shove motherhood down your throat. No choice.

Also, the responsibility falls on the woman in most cases. Father wants to leave? He usually doesn't take the kid. Then everything falls on the woman.

You have no choice because you love this child. Wow, what a fail-safe system. Who invented this program, anyway?

And of course a woman is expected to do all this with sub-standard wages. Name me a profession where women are at parity with men.

There are serious inequities for women. That's why I want nothing to do with it. When I was young, I looked at that deal and said no thank you.

I'll be a kitty mom, thank you very much. And even that has it hazards. I got scratched this morning.

[love_katz]

32. This! Every word of it.

You nailed it, 100 percent.

Humans could be an asset to this world if we would just drop the addiction to power over, dominance and violence. Like the First Nations people of this continent, we need to learn to be reciprocal with nature, to find ways to give back in balance for what we have to take in order to live.
One giant step forward is to honor women as full human beings. Women's rights are human rights.

[Biophilic]

12. So they're pissed because they were born?

Wow! That seems like taking anger at your parents a step over the edge of sanity. The one thing I can say for trump is he has brought all the crazies out of the wood work. I’m beginning to wonder if sane people are in the majority.

[Abolishinist]

35. At least, true to his 'beliefs',

he won't be replicating. So there's that.

And he's only 25, so it's quite likely his parents are still alive and will perhaps later comment about him.

[malaise]

6. You're not alone

Eff M$Greedia

[surfered]

8. That one has not been the Wordle yet.

[littlemissmartypants]

9. It's been around for a while. But...

If you have not fervently researched the philosophy around overpopulation you probably wouldn't have run across it.

❤️

[senseandsensibility]

11. So is it kind of like extreme environmentalism

where the adherents feel they are saving the planet so that's how they justify violence?

[Buddyzbuddy]

13. Precisely

[NJCher]

19. I researched overpopulation

However, not fervently.

[littlemissmartypants]

34. I only remember reading about it once or twice.

I don't remember it being associated with this extreme violence, however.

[Snarkoleptic]

14. When I was in college, a group of Jesuits had a table set up in the student union, near the anti-choice table.

"If you love them, let them starve." was printed on their table drape.
I chatted them up a bit and the gist was-
Feeding people in areas where there was insufficient food supply is increasing/dragging out suffering as already starving people are having children who are also suffering.

It was a odd viewpoint in light of the teachings of Jesus, so I shrugged it off as I didn't want a 3 on 1 debate.
>I'm an Atheist, but the school had some mandatory Theology courses and there were always weirdo groups setting up tables. The anti-choice folks were always handing out metal pins that looked like tiny baby feet and they seemed sincere, although misguided IMHO.

I though about this after reading a Newsweek piece where I had to look-up the word "efilism"-

Meanwhile, some social media users circulated what they claimed was a manifesto posted by the bomber which shared pro-mortalist ideas.

Pro-mortalism or anti-natalism is the belief that it is better for people to die to prevent endured suffering than to continue living.

It also shared a belief in efilism, which is similarly anti-natalist

The alleged manifesto, seen by Newsweek, did not offer any views about political parties or address other topics.

https://www.newsweek.com/palm-springs-bomb-suspect-manifesto-2073743

[senseandsensibility]

17. Wow.

Weird on so many levels. The Jesuits thing is bizarre to me.

[Hekate]

45. Actually, it sounds very sarcastic to me, a way of pointing out consequences ...

Never heard of a Roman Catholic religious person (i.e. “the Jesuit table” ) saying this, but I would have stopped to ask for the short version of their intent.

The consequences of forbidding abortion in all cases, and contraception as well, are to increase the numbers of infants and children who cannot be cared for by their parents. They starve, many of them. The constant bleating of anti-choice fanatics that all zygotes and all fetuses are “children” who must be “saved” from their murderous mothers, has the deaths of real women and real children as a consequence.

Anyone with any awareness of real life knows this — so I wonder what they meant? The usual line is something about adoption, if chastity fails.

[OAITW r.2.0]

53. 8 years of Jesuit education....never heard that either.

But, the Jesuits, being pro-education , fostered a lot of various ideas, no matter how feeble.

[DENVERPOPS]

18. In the past decade

I find, with all the reading I do, that I am constantly turning to the dictionary time and time again, almost daily as a matter of fact.
Even all the new "connotations" invented by the Republican Party for words we know already know the true meaning of......

I have noticed the general public and especially politicians including Trump have a basic third grade vocabulary, in addition to their pathetic knowledge of English, Geography, History, Math, Basic Sciences, Especially basic Biology... and most notably CIVICS....

[NJCher]

20. I will never forgive them for

Even all the new "connotations" invented by the Republican Party for words we know already know the true meaning of......

What they did to “robust. “

Used to be a great word. People would use it when tasting wine.

Now all you do is think of torture.

Thanks, Republicans.

[MLWR]

21. I have noticed the same, but mostly among younger folks.

Trump is MY vintage and when I was in school, the subjects you mention were required for graduation. His lack of knowledge in all of them, notably CIVICS is based on something other than the education system at the time. My guess is genetics, laziness and total lack of curiosity and interest.

[DENVERPOPS]

23. Same here MLWR

All of the subjects, esp CIVICS were pounded into our brains starting with 7th grade. Of course, even then, the private rich kids schools didn't have near the education the public school kids did.........

We had a Republican for CIVICS in the 8th grade that we had nicknamed "the Nazi" because he was relentless in pounding it into our heads......
And Imagine this: He almost got suspended for making us read his list of required books outside of class:
The Ugly American..... 1984..... Animal Farm..... and The Jungle........

[BurnDoubt]

24. This is...

about not appearing as though you are "smarter" than those with whom you hang. Choose ignorance over ostracision. Be a "man of the people". That's why we're tearing down education, because those uppity smart people look down on us. Walter Miller's "A Canticle For Liebowitz" had "Simpleton" gangs scouring the world eliminating intellectuals and scientists for causing the Nuclear Holocaust. This time, it's a "War on Woke" driving ignorance and greed.
"Good Morning, Good Simpleton!"

[DENVERPOPS]

26. Trump and Miss Amway

did a great deal of damage to the Department of Public Education when the was Secreatary of Education, in Trump's first occupation of the White House........this time the Republican's are out to destroy Public Education.

Did you catch Trump at all his rallies, after he was elected, thanking groups of his voters? One was what he called the un-educated, saying I love the un-educated, I love the un-educated.......and gleeful when he said it......

They were all so ignorant and stupid they didn't have the knowledge to understand what he was saying when he said to all his Trumphumpers: ........."Vote for me this one last time, and you will never have to vote for me again"
They did vote for him, and NOW they have out grown their usefulness, and Trump and the Republican Politicians are kicking them to the curb..

[Dave says]

47. Drop the "me" from your quote

I recall it differently. I think he said “Vote for me this one last time, and you will never have to vote again”. I took him to mean, once in the seat of power, he does not plan to leave. Elections, if we have them, will be along the lines of Putin in Russia. Performative, all show — the outcome predetermined.

(With the “me” in that sentence, it’s as if he recognizes the Constitution limits a President to two terms and he’d be serving his second term.)

I do hope I’m way wrong!

[DENVERPOPS]

48. True thinking Dave

good point, and I agree with you on your interpretation that it truly means that he doesn't plan to leave............

His Trumphumping voters weren't smart enough to figure out what he was saying in reality.....

Many times in the last month of his pre-election rallies he also was thanking the different groups that would vote for him.....and one group was the un-deducated voters, then he said I love the un-educated voters, I love the un-educated voters....

The last month they were all saying stuff that no politician would ever say, for fear of losing any votes.......
At the time, I thought, they are talking like they don't have to worry about losing votes, the election is already corrupted by Musk and Putin, by so much that they know the vote numbers will be in their favor regardless, especially in the swing states.....

That's what is done in tyrannies and dictatorships from Hitler through Putin......
Hitler's Goebbel? said so much when he said.....it matters not about the vote, but about who COUNTS the votes....

[genxlib]

29. One of the great things about reading on a kindle

Is that i can look up things right there.

Not just words but basically any thing on the internet; places, organizations, expressions, people, etc.

As long as I am connected to wifi, I am a press-hold menu away.

[Igel]

42. The words been around for a few decades,

and the idea's been around for at least a couple of millennia.

"Embodied" (which airs on NPR stations) has been advertising this week's episode. The ad features a woman who would seem to have considered having a child, but given the possibility (probability?) of an "extinction level" climate crisis, would it really be right to bring a child into the world just so it would face misery, hardship, and possibly a painful life and death?

I knew women who said things like that back in the '80s--what with Reagan, the likelihood of nuclear war, the Malthusian famines that would kill off at least a billion people, etc., etc., etc. And it wasn't just that. Knew people that had exited a church that was sort of implying that Jesus' return must be nigh. And with that would be all the persecution, 4 horsemen, etc., etc. So it would be, let's all join in together, would it really be right to bring a child into the world just so it would face misery, hardship, and possibly a painful life and death?

[Iggo]

22. From overpopulation to no population?

That seems like an overcorrection…lol.

[senseandsensibility]

25. That's kind of where I am

Plus, the violence is a non-starter. What happened to free choice and self determination?

[BurnDoubt]

30. Aren't these the same people who...

Whine about poor families having children they can’t afford. And I also remember them having their hair on fire about WHINEY VICTIMS and lack of "personal responsibility". Now it is THEIR PLATFORM!!!!!!
I've been a "Zero Population Growth" citizen since I heard about it. I live in California, and the story here is about how far past sustainability we are reaching. We are already in crisis over water shortage, and the large population is creating much more in emissions than we can stand.
The notion that more people is the solution to problems caused by too many people is so laughingly ridiculous that no one should trust your judgement even to order your dinner.
Fewer children with more educational opportunities, health care and a stable society is really more ideal than this " Hunger Games" existence that enriches those with obscene wealth at the expense of the rest of us. And, anyway, why would anyone want to bring new life into a world where Fascists rule. Think hard before you create Life. "Suit-Up" and be responsible.

[DENVERPOPS]

43. I look around at all the twenty somethings that are having children

and have to wonder.......W T F CAN THEY BE THINKING ????????????????.......

[Clouds Passing]

39. Extremists gotta extreme

[et tu]

27. catastrophic climate change

will find the solution

[Totally Tunsie]

28. I was about to make a similar post - "nihilistic".

From vocabulary.com: "If you're nihilistic, you don't believe in anything — not religion, a moral code, love. Being nihilistic is also closely related to the political philosophy of anarchism, a belief that all social structures need to be destroyed before a new, better society can be developed."

[lonely bird]

33. Have not heard that term

Have heard of VHEMT.

Voluntary Human Extinction Movement.

[littlemissmartypants]

36. Interesting...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary_Human_Extinction_Movement

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement (VHEMT[A]) is an environmental movement that calls for all people to abstain from reproduction in order to cause the gradual voluntary extinction of humankind. VHEMT supports human extinction primarily because it would prevent environmental degradation. The group states that a decrease in the human population would prevent a significant amount of human-caused suffering. The extinctions of non-human species and the scarcity of resources caused by humans are frequently cited by the group as evidence of the harm caused by human overpopulation.

The Voluntary Human Extinction Movement was founded by Les U. Knight,[2][3] a graduate of Western Oregon University[5] and high school substitute teacher living in Portland, Oregon.[2] After becoming involved in the environmental movement as a college student in the 1970s, Knight attributed most of the dangers faced by the planet to human overpopulation.[2][6] He joined the Zero Population Growth organization,[2] and chose to be vasectomized at age 25.[6] He later concluded that the extinction of humanity would be the best solution to the Earth's environmental problems.[2] He believes that this idea has also been held by some people throughout human history.[7]

[Xavier Breath]

46. The extinction of mankind, eh?

Got to admit, lately I've heard worse ideas. This planet and its animal inhabitants would be so much better off without humans around to fuck things up.

[Clouds Passing]

38. The CTers are really grasping at straws to think up new ones

[flashman13]

40. OK I laughed at first. Then I began to think of this in terms of the Handmaid's Tale.

If the definition of anti-natalist means anyone that is against reproduction or having children, then women exercising their constitution right to reproductive care, which results in not making babies, are in fact anti-natalists.

It sounds like the Trumpies are in the process of creating a new crime, and even better, a new talking point. First they came for the reproductive clinic bombers. Then they came for the abortion drug providers. Then they came for your right to any abortion nation wide. Then they came for the women that still believed they had a right to control their own bodies. They are charged with the crime of being an anti-natalist. They will be sentenced to make babies.

That sounds creepy. It also sounds like in would appeal to the nut-bars around Trump.

[AntiFascist]

44. The bomber had a much less focused philosophy...

he believed that life only exists to make people suffer, therefore the earth needs to be rid of human life once everyone realizes this.

My fear would be if more young people were to adopt this kind of philosophy under Trump's economy and government.

[Meowmee]

49. I had heard of it but not of an AN bombing a clinic before now

[LudwigPastorius]

50. I'm not going to take the FBI or FOX's word on his motives until they provide evidence.

He is being characterized as "anti-pro-lifer" who wants to stop people from having children, while it is much more likely that he bombed the clinic because of the claims that IVF destroys more fetuses than abortion.

He is probably just an insane fetus fan radicalized by those dubious stories, but the right wing media and administration don't want it to get out that he is actually the same kind of "pro life" terrorist that bombs abortion clinics.

[muffinsforbreakfast]

51. Nope. Me either.

Had to fire up the Google machine once again.

[OAITW r.2.0]

52. News to me. I read on another thread, he was a Mortalist. He proved that point, I guess.

Just another wacko with a certitude.

[wendyb-NC]

54. No, I have never heard the word used before I read your post

[no_hypocrisy]

55. Geez, all this dude had to do was get a nut-cut.

And that should have been the end of it all.