Did Hamas think that their Oct 7th attack would lead to

[edhopper]

the complete destruction of Gaza? Did they care? Or was the horror inflicted on some Israelis enough justification for them.

I by know means support the continued wreckage of Gaza by Israeli. But it is a retaliation for what Hamas did. With the poor Gazans paying the price. I believe Israeli wants to give a clear message to anyone attacking them.

I also think their last chance at a ceasing of this onslaught was Harris in the White House. Trump has no interest in curbing Israel.
A curse on those who wanted to "teach Biden a lesson".

This isn't to justify anything being done, Just musings on what I see .

[Johnny2X2X]

1. I think they expected the world to help

I think they expected this reaction from Israel, but they just thought the world would act to save the people who live in Gaza.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

4. They thought wrong.

Why would the world help a terrorist org. who had viciously attacked Israel?

[Johnny2X2X]

7. The people of Gaza

They thought the world would save the people there, and it would all isolate Israel.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. Oh, ok. nt

[Jack Valentino]

25. Why would the world help a genocidal organization who attempt to wipe out

all the civilians in Gaza ??

Unfortunately, too many of them ARE, including US...


And YES, the Israeli government is a genocidal organization, at this point. It is what it is.
That fact doesn't even bear discussion anymore.


Did WE wipe out all the civilians in Germany, once the war was effectively 'won' ?

NO, we didn't.

Neither October 7th, nor the 'Holocaust card', excuses what is happening now.


Of course my post will encourage accusations of 'anti-semitism'--- well,
I am not--- except for the kind who now control the Israel government and military---
and I will make no apology for that, nor is any apology called for.

[Lancero]

27. We kept attacking them even after the war was won, and we kept attacking them up until they surrendered.

Has the Gazan government surrendered?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cyvmmr154v2o

The protesters directed their anger at Hamas's leadership after an interview with senior official Sami Abu Zuhri circulated on social media.

Speaking on a podcast which originally aired in late March, he said that the war with Israel was "eternal", adding: "We will rebuild the houses and produce dozens more babies for each martyr."

Seems not.

[JI7]

2. It's also Iran trying to gain more power against Saudis

and be seen as more of a leader among muslims.

[ShadesOfBlue]

3. What did the Israel government think its decades of apartheid would lead to?

Love and harmony?

The nonsense perspective that there was no history of oppression, conflict, savagery (on both sides ), hate and mass killings BEFORE October 7th is insulting. Did you think Palestinians should have gone strictly the MLK route to get their rights? How many decades should they have sung “we shall overcome” before the world took collective action? How passive should they remain as Israel flaunted its disrespect of laws by increasingly taking land from Palestinians? The difference between Israel and apartheid South Africa (whose forces both trained together and learned from one another for a certain period of time) is that the world stepped up and helped force the white minority SA government out of power. The world doesn’t come close to putting such economic and political pressure on Israel; not because global communities think Israel is right, but because people don’t want to be charged with anti-semitism. Such cowards.

There was no Hamas before Israel made Gaza an open air prison. It’s easy for someone to criticize Hamas’ terrible albeit desperate actions on October 7th. But I know if someone try to inflict such oppression upon American citizens my countrymen wouldn’t last a week before pulling out the guns and acting like “ terrorists” against both the regime that was holding them down and any citizens benefiting from it.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

6. LOL.

[Beastly Boy]

10. Kushner's luxury hotels in Gaza?

Just to make things clear: no, I am not serious. Very not serious. Snarky, you might say. How can I be serious to a response like this?

[JohnSJ]

34. He has a conveniently warped version of History.

[NutmegYankee]

11. I disagree. If Palestinians had followed Gandhi, they'd be a free state right now.

Their decades long refusal to accept peace is what led them to this place.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

18. LOL.

[NutmegYankee]

22. Oh fuck that noise!

The many bodies of teens and twenties aged music festival goers clearly says this is bullshit. I've watched those videos. Spare me the lies!

[question everything]

29. "No evidence of rape.". Have you bothered to do. simple search? Use "atrocities of October 7"

How do we now about rape, about decapitating following the rape? Simply the savages videoed the whole horrors even posted on the victims’ social media.

Here is a start

Israel Gaza: Hamas raped and mutilated women on 7 October, BBC hears

The BBC has seen and heard evidence of rape, sexual violence and mutilation of women during the 7 October Hamas attacks.

WARNING: CONTAINS EXTREMELY GRAPHIC DESCRIPTIONS OF SEXUAL VIOLENCE AND RAPE

Several people involved in collecting and identifying the bodies of those killed in the attack told us they had seen multiple signs of sexual assault, including broken pelvises, bruises, cuts and tears, and that the victims ranged from children and teenagers to pensioners.

Video testimony of an eyewitness at the Nova music festival, shown to journalists by Israeli police, detailed the gang rape, mutilation and execution of one victim.

Videos of naked and bloodied women filmed by Hamas on the day of the attack, and photographs of bodies taken at the sites afterwards, suggest that women were sexually targeted by their attackers.

Few victims are thought to have survived to tell their own stories.

Their last moments are being pieced together from survivors, body-collectors, morgue staff and footage from the attack sites.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67629181

[tritsofme]

15. The Arabs in the disputed lands are a defeated people. Given the option for peace, they chose war, and lost.

Over and over again.

If they truly want peace, they need to sue for it, on Israel’s terms.

[JoseBalow]

19. Are you rationalizing terrorism?

It seems like you're saying it's justified.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

23. That's exactly what is being said.

[JohnSJ]

35. He is also giving a very distorted history of the entire situation.

[PCIntern]

21. Ridiculous.

[question everything]

26. "No Hamas before Israel made Gaza a prison?". Why not to a bit of basic search, starting with Wikipedia?

and why not read about how Hamas in the 2006 elections - promoted by a clueless Bush - murdered the opposition Patah party and since then imprisoned, tortured and killed any opposition?

[Irish_Dem]

5. I don't think Hamas cared.

I believe Putin helped Hamas stage the attack.
And he certainly doesn't care. In fact he loves the carnage.

[LexVegas]

8. They expected sympathy and to be hailed as freedom fighters by sympathizers. nt

[Lancero]

28. So, is that why the Middle East threw their lot in to help Israel against Iran's barrage of ballistic missiles?

Helping the Democratic nation, in their struggles against authoritarian regimes?

[Cha]

31. No Hamas are GD Fucking Terrorists.

[Beastly Boy]

14. I think they got more sympathy than they expected.

And the sympathy only emboldened the murderous motherfuckers.

[Cha]

32. Hamas Wanted Martyrs'.. and Made Sure Of It.

[question everything]

9. They wanted to torpedo an Israeli-Saudi agreement. Also were counting on Hezbollah joining

https://democraticunderground.com/100220324403

[Eko]

20. Yup. Thought this for a long time.

They thought that they would become unimportant to the Arab world with the agreement.

[Greg_In_SF]

17. Their attack

Went way “better” than they expected. They never saw this coming.

[applegrove]

30. It came out this week that they wanted to stop the Israeli -

Saudi deal that might lead to peace, even though the Saudis said any deal would have to include something for Palestinians.

[LonePirate]

33. Both sides are filled with so much anger, hatred and vengefulness that logical justifications don't exist.

To make matters worse, their motivations have infected and polarized America so much that even if Harris had won, a lasting peace without genocide, relocation or other war crimes would have been impossible.

We live in a miserable timeline.

[Celerity]

38. Why are you posting that?