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marble falls
(71,841 posts)
GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)marble falls
(71,841 posts)
Celerity
(54,326 posts)marble falls
(71,841 posts)Celerity
(54,326 posts)certain types directed at LGBTQ folk or parents of LGBTQ children simply for leaving FL. People here actually saying that those people needed to 'stay and fight', despite some of them already being put in physical danger. One of the people leaving FL was even called a cut and runner, a coward. That is seriously fucked up IMHO.
scipan
(3,028 posts)
UTUSN
(77,700 posts)GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)What would you do if you were in a minority group, highly visible, a dual national, and a thorn in the side of the establishment? Remain a sitting target and easy pickings for a retaliatory regime?
marble falls
(71,841 posts)... will take all of us.
Argentina has had it's moments, too. They were throwing people from helicopters not too long ago. Including native born citizens, like David.
Celerity
(54,326 posts)
Basso8vb
(1,230 posts)What don't you get about that? 
PJMcK
(25,046 posts)Did you watch the whole video?
A mentor and friend who was an Austrian Jew left there and came to America in 1937 because he saw his country collapsing. Some of his family who stayed died in the concentration camps. History teaches us lessons.
Do you think Trump won’t go full fascist?
AllaN01Bear
(29,394 posts)im too old. id goto england as there would bee a chance and it would cost too much for me initially. if i would go i would want to do it leagly. the next question in england , where would i settle in england.? lots of questions . i will stay and fight in my own way by being myself
slightlv
(7,782 posts)But I'd love to immigrate to Ireland. My great grandma came to America from the Arris Islands when she was a wee bairn. Unfortunately, that's one generation too far back for a right to return for me. But I so ache to see the islands before I die. Too bad I'm nearly crippled up at this point and stone cold poor!!! ...sigh...
writerJT
(467 posts)GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)writerJT
(467 posts)And do enjoy it yourself!
LexVegas
(6,959 posts)
prodigitalson
(3,193 posts)GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)UTUSN
(77,700 posts)Swede
(39,386 posts)Pakman is a voice of reason, in these perilous times. I don't understand the flippant, cruel responses.
valleyrogue
(2,698 posts)Being chickenshit isn't a virtue.
GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)Would you have called Jews who made plans to leave Germany in 1933 'chickenshit'?
Behind the Aegis
(56,102 posts)Shame people didn't bother to actually watch the video. Hell, the first minute would explain the title.
He is a NATURALIZED citizen. Have some of you NOT being paying attention?!
Furthermore, he is a liberal and a likely reason for hate against him, a JEW! This behavior is not uncommon for many Jews...always have an exit strategy.
Do you have car insurance? Why? Are you a shitty driver or is it because it is better to have a safety net?
I would say I can't believe some of the nasty replies, but I can.
Swede
(39,386 posts)He's in a potentially bad situation, being born in Argentina and Jewish. We've seen Trump deport families to different countries, breaking up the family, without a bit of concern.
UTUSN
(77,700 posts)
Karasu
(2,003 posts)ANYONE can be faulted for making that decision given the events that have played out over the last 5 months and the effects that they are going to have on the quality of life in this country for a very, very long time. Personally, for me, RFK Jr. alone makes me want to GTFO, and that's just the very tip of the iceberg. When countries succumb to fascism, people always leave. And really, why the fuck wouldn't they? It's a perfectly reasonable thing to do, and history more than bears that out (there's a reason why most of our top scholars on fascism have already slammed the door).
There is no more virtue in "sticking it out" than there is in leaving. Neither is morally superior to the other. Both are simply choices. People should make the choice that's right for them, regardless of what anyone else says.
marble falls
(71,841 posts)... when we win, will he come back?
My biggest problem with him was the way he presented his material. Cut in pieces and over explained. Tell me what clip is coming, tell me what to look for, play the entire clip, make a comment and move on. He's an American and what we don't need right now is even one less American. We need to stand together.
There's a reckoning coming and we all need to be here to serve it up.
Behind the Aegis
(56,102 posts)That Otto Frank, what coward, right?! He like so many other Jews should have stayed in Germany and defeated The Reich! 
What about all those "losers" on the southern border of the US "swarming" into our country? They should go back and make their totalitarian/disastrous governments more stable instead of fleeing? Whill they be "real" US citizens or only until their country acts right, then they will go back?!
Unless you are a minority under threat, you don't get it. As a gay Jew, I can tell you, my JEWISH family has considered what we might do, and as a gay married man, my husband and I have talked about possible escape routes. It is easy to be so cavalier when you aren't part of what could be the first wave of attacks. Look at what is happening to CITIZENS now?! The attack on "birthright citizenship" could easily turn into an attack on naturalized citizens!
You really should use phrases you do NOT understand, especially in order to condemn someone's whose family was directly affected!
Your "liking" of how he presents his information is irrelevant and immaterial to the subject at hand: many minorities, Jews, queer people, some Blacks, Latinos, even Asian-Americans are fearful and many of us are looking for a way out if the worse arrives at our doorstep. Jews have learned from the past....most will NOT hide us in their attics, no matter if they claim they would now.
"First they came for they Jews, and I said...BUT ISRAEL and FREE PALESTINE!" That is a reality as well.
Basso8vb
(1,230 posts)
Celerity
(54,326 posts)
Violet_Crumble
(36,385 posts)David Pakman is my favourite US political YouTuber, and I'm shocked at how many here didn't watch the clip before replying. It's so easy to sit in judgement when there's no risk of being persecuted themselves. I think my fave Russian YouTuber did the right thing leaving Russia, and if David decides it's no longer safe in the US, don't attack him, attack the regime that caused it.
UTUSN
(77,700 posts)Celerity
(54,326 posts)It is a major DU specialty for posters here to knee-jerk respond (so often in error) to things without reading or watching most, if any, of an OP's articles or videos, etc.
chowder66
(12,217 posts)He was born in Argentina and is a naturalized citizen, he is also Jewish. He is looking at Argentina but it has its share of issues. He also found a law firm in case he leaves the country and has any issues trying to get back in.
He doesn't think he will have to leave but out of caution, he is getting his ducks in a row.
If Trump goes after naturalized citizens, he's a target. It makes sense. He also has a 3 year old and that may be driving some of his concern.
Response to chowder66 (Reply #7)
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marble falls
(71,841 posts)chowder66
(12,217 posts)marble falls
(71,841 posts)chowder66
(12,217 posts)
leftyladyfrommo
(19,989 posts)That makes him a target.
I like him.
mzmolly
(52,784 posts)
chouchou
(3,126 posts)I wish him well.
Deuxcents
(26,769 posts)An awful burden to not feel safe because of your religion or your place of birth. The world has gone bezerk and this country has its fair share of ignorant and dangerous people
chouchou
(3,126 posts)...and the KKK in 1865...
Any kind human being would defiantly not want this reality.
DFW
(60,144 posts)Know everything about where you’re going. Have your life set up: job (if not retired), residence, bank account, all kinds of insurance, get a dentist, a GP, schools if you have kids, basic services, what you can expect, and what is expected of you.
“I didn’t count on THAT!” is the wrong answer, whether moving overseas or down the street. And I know from first-hand experience, having said it myself way too often.
slightlv
(7,782 posts).military and civilian dod moves!
DFW
(60,144 posts)I bet you said, “here we go again” often enough!
slightlv
(7,782 posts)I've got boxes of books and clothes and sheets and towels strewn all over the states. The most puzzling is a move I took inside a city from an apartment to a condo. Had an enormously tall box... almost 5 foot tall... that held blankets and sheets. I watched one of male friends load it in the back of the truck. But, damn... when I started unpacking boxes the next day that box was nowhere to be found!
Moving from Austin to Kansas City hubs and I had more books than we could carry in packed boxes. So, we did the hard thing and went through to see what we could leave behind and what was precious enough we had to keep. We ended up with a 3'x4' box full of books that we left in the laundry room of the complex. If there were voracious readers there, they had an excellent selection to choose from! Somehow I also lost all our christmas decorations from when my daughter was a kid and making them. That one really hurt.
Told hubby and grandson I'm not moving again (unless it's to a blue state). This old house needs so much work, but told the grandson if he'll stay and help me, I'll leave the house lock, stock, and barrel to him. It's completely paid for, so there is that. I don't anticipate coming into any fortune anytime soon, so here I sit in this red, red city and dream of moving to a blue state that's actually civil.
fujiyamasan
(1,656 posts)We don’t have as many good excuses now with the internet. There’s usually a forum to discuss everything.
When did you move overseas? I’d imagine it was a lot harder to do that research back then ahead of time! But it would have been exciting in some ways and probably teaches you other skills along the way.
DFW
(60,144 posts)I had been spending a lot of time over here before that. My wife was never comfortable with living permanently in North America, so I structured my job around spending a lot of time overseas—mostly in Europe, although with occasional visits to East Asia and South America.
The Germans were choking on their bureaucracy. Not as bad as in the socialist East, but quite the tangled mess all the same. I went and applied in early 2011 for the residence/work permit. It used to be that you didn’t even need that stuff as long as you didn’t stay in one country more than 90 days in a row. Since I’m never in one country more than 90 hours in a row, it wasn’t an issue.
Then they changed the rules to say you needed a visa if you spent 90 days cumulatively in the Schengen area, and that is most of the EU plus Norway and Switzerland. At first, I was sent to a “foreigners office” that was used to dealing only with Russian and Afghan asylum seekers. They had no idea how to deal with an American, and one who could already speak German almost as well as they did. They putzed around for months, getting nowhere, finding a pretext for ever more forms to fill out. They were just incompetent, and didn’t want to admit it.
Then the town where we really live opened their own foreigners office, and I started anew, with real people, not just disinterested bureaucrats. They told me the documents they needed, said that I obviously ldidn’t need a language test, and said when they had everything, things should go quickly. I got them everything, refused to give them originals (because bureaucrats lose things), and got things underway. Three weeks later, they called, apologizing because they HAD lost everything, and could I please get them new copies. I did. US birth certificate, passport copy, health exam dine in Germany, statement/proof of employment and health insurance, German marriage certificate (my wife is German), and US bank statement (i.e. no I was not coming here to get a residence permit and apply for welfare the next day). Both our children were living in the USA at the time, though one was moving back here to Europe, since there was no work (tail end of the Bush/Cheney recession) in the States for her, and the Frankfurt arm of a British firm was looking for someone with exactly her credentials.
Two months from initial application with the competent office to my first residence/work permit. It was good for three years, at which point, it got replaced with a permanent permit (standard, at lesst in Germany). I had to get a German driver’s license, too. Normally, you have to give them your home country’s license in exchange, but I said I went back to the USA regularly, and needed a driver’s license in English. They made an exception upon my written statement.
I had one thing that helped expedite things, namely that my wife and I had been married since 1982. When they noted that my wife had uninterrupted residence in Germany, so what was my deal with only applying in 2011? I explained that it was job-related, and that our longest times together were in the USA. I then showed them my 48 page passport so thick with stamps that you could hardly distinguish anything, and they said OK, understood. I just said that I wanted to slow down a bit, and spend more time with her in Europe, which now required a residence visa. They said I was an unusual case, but everything I provided them with checked out, and they didn’t any reason to deny my request.
Since my health insurance was Texas Blue Cross (i.e. deny all claims from overseas), I checked out German health insurance. Because my employer was in the USA, I only qualified for what is called “private” health insurance here in Germany. Germany has about ten different versions of health insurance (none of which are “free,” sorry Bernie). So I went to one of the main companies. My wife and friends said the prices would be similar, so it really didn’t matter which. To determine my premium, I had to fill out a form listing my current state of health (backed up the exam I submitted for my residence application). A couple of days later came the quote. €2500 a month, or $35,000 a year at the exchange rate then. I freaked out, and asked the residence office if I could just keep my Blue Cross. Not realizing how useless BC is, they said sure. I haven’t needed $35000 worth of medicine and care since the move in 2011.
My wife took early retirement at age 60 in 2012, and lost her health insurance until age 65. I took up the slack snd bought her a German version of COBRA for about $600 a month. Good thing, too, since she was diagnosed with a rare, always-fatal form of cancer at age 64. The oncologist said this was the first time in 30 years he had seen it caught this early, and she might be that one in ten thousand to beat it. A brutal six hour operation and 84 (!!!) biopsies later—ALL negative—and the surgeon said she might just make it. That was nine years ago. Well worth the $7000 per year I paid for her insurance, which really DID pay for everything. With that cancer, normally she would have been lucky to have had 18 months.
DFW
(60,144 posts)Not everything is easier these days with the internet.
When my wife gave birth to our daughters (1983 and 1985), I called the Us embassy—then still in Bonn—and asked what I needed to do to get them US citizenship. They said bring the German birth certificate, my passport, $50 (or however much it was), and a photo of the baby. I did all that, and went down to the embassy. I had to fill out a form, and then hand it to them with all the other stuff they had asked for. About 90 minutes later, each time, I walked out of there with their US birth certificates and their first passports.
These days, my daughter in Frankfurt tried to get US citizenship for her two daughters. Like me, one German parent, one American parent. In each case, it took eleven months! I guess that is what passes for progress these days. I long for the good old slow days, when it took 90 minutes.
GoneOffShore
(18,018 posts)Pakman is very smart to have contingency plans and to explore options.
I am now working toward French citizenship.
RandySF
(83,934 posts)Leave the country and leave the fight to the young, old, poor and marginalized.
Behind the Aegis
(56,102 posts)EndlessWire
(8,103 posts)one of the few media guys that consistently speaks against trump. If he needs to leave for safety, he's got nothing to be ashamed of. They might go after him because of his show, and make up the reason. He's done well for us.
Johnny2X2X
(24,162 posts)I am watching for ICE's behavior. They're a lawless arm of an authoritarian state and it's just a matter of time until they start targeting any person disagrees with the regime, no matter what their citizenship status.
When ICE starts sending people to prisons in the Sudan, El Salvador, Libya, or Rwanda for their social media posts is when it will be time to escape.
It can happen here, it is happening here. Stephen Miller is running the show and that guy is genocidal.
edhopper
(37,339 posts)If they go full fascist/Nazi, I am gone.
Srkdqltr
(9,729 posts)Love the rich and entitled . I wonder if I would have been resentful if I lived in Europe and watched others leave ? Probably.
Behind the Aegis
(56,102 posts)" I wonder if I would have been resentful if I lived in Europe and watched others leave ? Probably."
Really?! REALLY?! You would have been resentful of Jews who fled Germany, Poland, the Pale, and other countries?!
SWBTATTReg
(26,252 posts)border and other places for their retirements, being that the cost of living was lower there for them. They're still Americans at heart, and I wish them all best wishes. How many Americans live overseas? I bet the actual numbers will shock people, Americans have always traveled the world and have been doing so forever it seems live. After all, our ancestors came literally from all over the world.
MuseRider
(35,176 posts)some cannot. I used to feel they were cowards and that is true to an extent for some but there is usually a pretty good reason behind that decision, it can't be easy. I am not a fan of Mr. Pakman, I used to listen to him but it was not a fit for me.
Like him or not he has the right and far more reason to be worried closely, personally, by this horror with a vendetta always in his heart (?).
Most of us here will have little choice so that is a given but really if you were in his place would you really not consider getting out of what may come next?
I have to stay, too many responsibilities I will not leave. I have sons with wives and grandchildren I would love to see go rather than take a chance here.
Mr. Pakman has a target on his life, AND his loved ones. I cannot blame him. He did good for us for a very long time and it was not always a safe way to be so...we each have our limits and choices.
Dan
(5,151 posts)But in the worse case scenario - the ones where Trump goes full Nazi (I mean he already has the political party GOP as his base), then no one on this planet will be safe.
Like people are saying about Putin - give him Ukraine and he will then pick the next Country to acquire.
If Trump is not contained and the GOP continues to support his insanity then none of us are safe. I think a lot of the MAGA white people think that since they are white, they are safe - that is not how the party rows.
Study history - we contain or put Trump (and the GOP) in check or where does it end.