What if We Had Elected Hillary Clinton?

[MineralMan]

What if We Had Elected Kamala Harris?

Those are two questions I wish we had the answer for.

Sadly, we do not know. Sadly, we got Donald John Trump instead - both fucking times!

What a freaking pity!

[sop]

1. Hillary would have been a great president.

She would have nominated three Supreme Court justices, America would be a different place, and our collective mental health would be better.

[Silent Type]

2. Would have been significant. Unfortunately, after you cut through the Comeys, email lies, etc., Clinton still would

have won if Democrats hadn't bashed Obama and Clinton on trade right up to November 2016 election.

[Bayard]

3. Don't make me cry......

[hamsterjill]

4. I go back even further. I think the real crossroads where the country changed was Gore/Bush.

We would be so much further along battling climate change if Al had been elected and served. I see climate change happening on a daily basis in my neck of the woods in South Texas, and it makes me fearful and sad as to what could have been.

[rurallib]

6. I am with you on this. And Gore did in reality win

a coup by SCOTUS gave us the clown prince W.

[Hekate]

28. I agree. I didn't see how bad it was at the time or how far the rot and conspiracies had spread...

I was not ready to give up on my native land — I thought it could be salvaged. Obama gave me such hope and comfort — but the racist backlash was so violent, vicious, nightmarish, and our enemies within used every bit of that poison against us.

So, from trump’s first potus campaign and his first “win” I saw it clearly. The rot, the conspiracies, the rejection of Al Gore by no less than the Supreme Court.

We have squandered our chances, again and again.

[Self Esteem]

5. Honestly, Hillary probably would have been a one-term president and we would have gotten Trump in 2020.

Harris could have ended Trump - that's an even bigger loss because people knew who Trump was and still voted for him
At least in 2016, he had zero experience as a leader so the clueless could project their feelings onto him. No excuse for 2024.

[MineralMan]

7. Nope.

[Self Esteem]

11. Nope what lmao

She literally lost an election where the sitting president, who also happened to be a member of her party, had 60% approval and you're so defiantly claiming she would have won reelection?

It's clear Hillary was an extremely polarizing figure. The proof is that she lost an election most every other Democrat, including Biden, would have won.

Her being a one-term president would absolutely be very possible had she eked out a win in 2016.

[Skittles]

13. do NOT compare Hillary to Biden

BIDEN NEVER HAD TO DEAL WITH SEXISM

[Self Esteem]

17. I CAN AND I WILL

Hillary lost in part due to sexism, which is why she was so unpopular, but she also lost because her campaign and candidate made plenty of mistakes. But regardless, she was unpopular and it's very likely had she won in 2016, she'd remain unpopular and lose in 2020.

[Skittles]

19. she was "unpopular" mostly because of the relentless repuke campaign against her

which was FUELED BY SEXISM

[Self Esteem]

20. She was unpopular for many reasons.

[Skittles]

21. MOSTLY BECAUSE OF SEXISM

*DONE* here

[Self Esteem]

22. But also other reasons.

[Hekate]

29. I am TOTALLY with you in this, Skittles. GOP decided 40 years ago to squash that uppity woman...

…and they have attacked her without mercy ever since — lie after lie after lie. I hate seeing anyone here repeat that GOP shit that MAGAs believe because FOX and RW radio have said it without pause for 40 years.

[Jack Valentino]

32. The fact that she was the wife of Bill Clinton, WHO KICKED THEIR ASSES TWICE,

also had a lot to do with it, I think....

[betsuni]

25. Popular senator, 69% approval as SoS, record number of times in a row voted the most admired woman.

"By 2014, a year before Hillary announced her intention to run for president, a New York Times/CBS poll found that 82% of Democrats favored Clinton over both Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren, and a Quinnipiac poll reported that registered voters in Ohio (yes -- Ohio) chose Clinton over the six likely Republican candidates. ... 'If the election were held tomorrow,' John McCain said, 'Hillary Clinton would most likely be the President.'

"In April of 2015, Hillary announced her candidacy, and within weeks, John McCain's prediction was replaced (by the press) with her annoying 'presumption of inevitability,' and her GOP colleagues began to alchemize everything good that she had accomplished while serving her country, transforming the gold into ashes. Her tenure as secretary of state became 'Benghazi' and then 'the email scandals.' Her years of experience trying to find common ground in a highly polarized government became evidence of her enmeshment in 'establishment politics.' Her ability to moderate between progressive goals and the necessities of working within a consumer capitalist society (yes, like it or not, that is what we are) became 'being in the pocket of Wall Street.' And every time she tried to explain -- anything -- she was branded as 'lying' 'deflecting' or 'covering up.'

"It was relentless -- and if you think this is an exaggeration, just take a look at the June 2006 report from Harvard's Shorenstein Center which showed that even when 'scandals' were not involved, 84% of Clinton's coverage was negative compared to 43% of Trump's and 17% of Sanders's. The report notes: 'Clinton's negative coverage can be equated to millions of dollars in attack ads, with her on the receiving end.'"

Susan Bordo

So what were the "many reasons" she was suddenly unpopular? Character attacks, lies, conspiracies, BS. "Enough is enough" Hillary said about yet another of the continuous lies of corruption, the question that never gets an answer: show me the evidence of changed votes due to money. There are none. Hillary was also the most honest of all primary/general election candidates. And still Democrats are accused of the same old lies, "ignoring the working class" being "beholden to billionaires" not being progressive. Goal: elect Republicans.

[Hekate]

30. TY for all the facts. Amazing how well character assassination works. Amazing how Dems eat their own.

[MineralMan]

14. OK. She still would have picked

Better SCOTUS justices in one term. You don't like Hillary? I don't care. You didn't like Kamala Harris? I don't care. Both would have been far superior over Trump. Surely you agree with that.

Personally I like both of those women candidates. I voted for them. I talked them up. I donated time and money.

Collectively, we elected Trump instead. That is what happened. It's simple.

[Self Esteem]

18. She wouldn't have picked any justice to the Supreme Court.

Democrats failed to win the senate in 2016, so, even if she would have won, Republicans likely hold the senate and do to her what they did to Obama.

It was something they were already discussing before the election.

They would have held that seat vacant throughout her presidency.

And once RBG died, they would have done the exact same, especially if they felt they would win the presidency in 2020.

And I never said I didn't like Hillary. You're clearly running on emotions and not logic right now.

I said if Hillary won, I believe she would have been a one-term president and that Trump very well could have won in 2020 and we'd be in the same boat. Yes, I would rather Hillary have won in 2016 ... but I also believe Biden winning in 2020 has proven a Pyrrhic victory too! Because had Biden lost in 2020, Trump isn't president right now and he likely would have been saddled with extreme economic issues - and high inflation - which would have killed his approval and Democrats are likely stronger for it (Trump wins in 2020, Democrats take the Senate, expand the Senate in 2022 during a disastrous midterms that allows for the House to remain Democratic and 2024 is likely a total rebuke of Trump like 2008 was of Bush).

None of this has to do with my thoughts on Hillary as a person. Just that I don't know if any of this could have been avoided if she had won in 2016. Maybe ... but I suspect had she won, she's a one-term president and Trump is running again after coming dangerously close to the presidency in 2016.

As I said in my post: 2024 is much more critical because it's an election we knew who Donald Trump was ... we had four years of him as president and we couldn't stop him despite everything.

[Polybius]

23. You think one Party is winning 4 times in a row?

It's been nearly 80 years.

[MineralMan]

37. Probably not.

I'm at a loss, though, to understand how Trump got elected twice, see?

[Polybius]

39. I hear ya

It's still hard for me to understand how George W. Bush got re-elected in 2004.

[ITAL]

8. I think Hilary also would have been a 1 termer

Mostly because of covid (even if handled competently, nearly every country punished their leadership during/after the pandemic). However, I don't think Trump comes back in 2020 if he loses in 2016.

[Silent Type]

9. +1. If trump had lost in 2016, he'd be a miserable pauper now and we'd be much better off. But he did win and

like 2024, we lost to the most easily beatable candidate in history.

[Self Esteem]

12. I think if 2016 is a very narrow Clinton win, which it likely would have been, I do think he runs again.

If it was looking like the repudiation that polls were suggesting in early October, I agree. He would not have had much support to run again.

But I think he would have been emboldened by the closeness of the race.

[Polybius]

24. I agree that he would have run again

But I don't think he wins the Republican nomination again in 2020. Ted Cruz might.

[Jack Valentino]

34. Ted Cruz never had a "cult". I don't see it.

[Polybius]

35. He almost won in 2016

If Trump lost the general election, the cult would have fizzled out.

[Jack Valentino]

33. He was already trying to claim "election fraud" before the 2016 election,

until he won which surprised everyone, especially himself--- so he then stopped talking about election fraud.


I agree with you, if Sec. Clinton had won in 2016, she probably would have lost in 2020 to Trump who would have run again...

No matter how good a job she had done, she probably would have lost---

Hell, we've seen by the economic numbers and legislative record how well Joe Biden actually did,
but too many couldn't see it--- and yeah, sexism against Hillary would have also played into it. That is true.

[Blue Owl]

10. It's sad because no matter how great she would have been, and she would have....

The slack-jawed MAGAt hatred directed towards her and the “liberal democrats” in general seems to trump everything else — they’d rather live in poverty and squalor without medical insurance and basic necessities in order to “own the libs” it seems….

What a pathetic tableaux that ruins life for the rest of us who like progress, prosperity, and democracy.

[betsuni]

15. Everyone would be so happy being disappointed, angry, afraid, complaining -- the fake scandals, the conspiracies!

They'd all be happy and not know it until a Republican gets elected again and then they remember. Uh oh.

Then they just blame Democrats for everything anyway. Clinton and Harris to blame for losing the election, not because Republicans have worked hard since the '70s manipulating politics, the culture and the country to the radical polarization it has now.

Maybe they'll win. The constant Democrat-bashing will help the Republican Hell future and people will vote for Republicans no matter what or refuse to vote. Literally no matter what. Good for you, Democrat haters! You'll all be unhappy and not know why.

[mcar]

16. This country would be a much better - and safer - place

[Pisces]

26. What if martians landed and little green men came out and attacked?? This is just troll bait to get people

arguing. We need to start planning from where we are, and discussing how to move forward. Looking back at things that can’t be changed is a waste of time. We need to formulate our plan of attack and who is going to run in the midterms, how to prevent Trump calling Martial law to block and election etc!!! Not daydreaming about what ifs and maybe’s.

[MineralMan]

36. The key to "planning from where we are" is

knowing exactly how we got here. I'm not trolling. I'm offering a question to consider in future campaigns.

[pandr32]

27. The world would be different.

[Skittles]

31. the United States would still be RESPECTED

we are a fucking JOKE now

[GulfofMexico]

38. We, the people, DID elect Hillary Clinton. The Electoral College didn't.

Hillary beat Trump by almost 3 million in the popular vote, the ONLY vote that counts in EVERY other country on the planet. Only in America can you lose by winning. It's pure bullshit. It's minority rule. Without the EC, there never would have been Trump or MAGA or any of this massive mess. But thanks to the framers' lack of faith in the voting public, we have an election system unlike any other in the known universe. And, at the same time, we have lifetime appointments for Supreme Court justices and NO TERM LIMITS for Congress.

Sure, the founders were great, but they were far from perfect, and trying to fix their most egregious mistakes is all but impossible. And so here we are . . .

[Takket]

40. It is the worst "own goal" in this country's history.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

41. If we had elected Hillary Clinton, Roe v. Wade would still be the law of the land

[MineralMan]

42. Yes, I'm sure it would.