The Ukraine's attack on Russia was NOT "Russia's Pearl Harbor."

[Du916]

Last edited Tue Jun 3, 2025, 12:07 AM - Edit history (1)

This really bothers me. I thought it was an effort by the NY Post and right -wing “media” to cast Russia and Putin as victims, but it is now is being repeated by the mainstream media. The attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941, was a sneak attack that occurred before Japan declared war on the United States. By contrast, Russia invaded the Ukraine and the Ukraine has been fighting a defensive was for three years.

[Amaryllis]

1. So right. Very excellent point. Hopefully more progressive media will pick up on that.

[canetoad]

2. That is incredibly lazy journalism

There are very few similarities, apart from both being unexpected attacks. Maybe calling it that is not sound-bitey enough.

[JoseBalow]

3. I thought it was a genocide

[Liberal In Texas]

4. You are correct. As mentioned above, it's lazy journalism.

And it's about the value placed on editors or writers to come up with a clever phrase - accuracy be damned.

[DENVERPOPS]

9. The true problem happened long ago

reporters cost the media money. So they cut their own reporters and started using syndicated articles from other papers.......
One syndicated column appears in a paper, and all the other subscribing papers just pick it up. Information or mis-information is spread like wildfire across the entire nation. You can see the problem if the original article came from some paper that economized by not thoroughly fact checking like the papers usually used to do, then the article is represented as being the true facts of the article. This started decades ago........

With the U.S. Media, almost exclusively backing Trump/Republicans/Corporations, they must not realize their future looks pretty grim.
I guess they never heard of PRAVDA, where the ONLY news that is allowed, by The State Owned Government, like in Russia.....

[KentuckyWoman]

5. Seems more like FAFO to me

More of it would be nice.

[Emrys]

6. Russian Telegram bloggers were the first to use that framing, so yes, it's not helpful

Russia’s ‘Pearl Harbor’ How pro-war Telegram channels are reacting to Ukraine’s drone attack on Russian air bases

Over the weekend, Ukraine’s Security Service conducted a massive, sophisticated drone attack targeting airfields in five regions of Russia. According to the agency, “Operation Spiderweb” destroyed 41 aircraft (though these numbers haven’t been independently confirmed). Russia’s pro-war commentators on Telegram were universally unhappy about the attack but divided over what it means and who’s to blame. Meduza shares a selection of opinions from some of Telegram’s more odious corners.

On whether this was ‘Russia’s Pearl Harbor’

Z-blogger Roman Alekhin

This is Russia’s Pearl Harbor. Let’s hope the response is the same as America’s response to the attack on Pearl Harbor — or even tougher.

Oleg Tsaryov, former Donbas separatist leader (wanted in Ukraine)

For some reason, a lot of people think we’re bound to hit back hard now — after all, our strategic aviation has taken a serious blow. They say this is our Russian “Pearl Harbor,” and that we’ll respond just as forcefully as the U.S. did back then.

But I don’t see it that way. Our Black Sea Fleet has already suffered massive damage — it doesn’t get much worse than that. And what happened then? Did we strike back then?

Yevgeny Popov, State Duma deputy and TV propagandist

“Pearl Harbor” — what are you talking about? Calm down. From the video, it looks like three or four aircraft. It’s not even clear how many were operational and how many were decoys. Yes, it’s a lot. Yes, it’s unpleasant. Yes, those responsible should be held accountable. But this isn’t Pearl Harbor. We should respond by giving the enemy their own Pearl Harbor.

And an interesting sidelight on one of the possible consequences:

Platon Mamatov, Russian soldier and blogger

Forget about the strategic missile carriers. We’ll win the war anyway. But how are we and our colleagues supposed to keep transporting drones by car? Before, we’d spend hours explaining things to the police or military police. Now? I don’t even want to think about it. Sure, we’ll get the drones to the mission. But getting them to a repair shop or training ground… no idea.

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2025/06/02/russia-s-pearl-harbor

[Crunchy Frog]

27. That guy hoping that russia's response will be the same as America's

Our response was to declare war on Japan. Is russia going to go to war with Ukraine now?

And that guy whining about the damage to the Black Sea fleet. As if any of that would have happened if russia hadn't launched an unprovoked war on a peaceful neighboring country. Or even if they'd just been satisfied with taking Crimea and part of the Donbas. And hadn't turned the entire city of Mariupol into a giant Pearl Harbor.

Russians sure know how to whine and play the victim.

[stumpysbear]

7. Don't disagree, but another comment

I’d politely ask you refer to Ukraine as “Ukraine” not “the Ukraine.”

“The Ukraine” is what Russians refer to it as it was when Ukraine was a satellite country of the USSR and did not have the sovereignty it has today.

https://theconversation.com/its-ukraine-not-the-ukraine-heres-why-178748

[Du916]

15. I went back and forth

I’m a bit of a writing and grammar geek (bad typing skills aside) and wasn’t sure about using the article “the.” I’ve heard it both ways obviously and wasn’t aware of the connotations. I went back and forth before choosing to use “the” because I thought it sounded/read better. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Crunchy Frog]

24. That's how I learned to refer to it

and it was universally referred to that way during the existence of the Soviet Union. I didn't actually learn that "the" was no longer used until after the full scale war started.

On Twitter it's practically universal that pro russian, pro Putin, anti Ukrainian accounts call it "The Ukraine" and call their capitol city "Kiev". Ukrainians tend to get offended by it.

[BidenRocks]

18. I believe it was shortly after the invasion

Everyone was saying THE Ukraine until someone schooled the world.
Ukraine. No 'the'.
My eyes glitch on 'the Ukraine"

Just like "Democrat party".

[orleans]

21. i grew up hearing people say "the" ukraine; parents, school, etc

that was how i learned to refer to ukraine -- no insult ever intended.

when putin attacked ukraine (maybe even before) i heard that the "the" was not the proper way to refer to ukraine. so i made an effort to knock off using "the" but it was a bit challenging since that is what i had always known ukraine to be. and it took awhile to ditch that "the" completely.

it took awhile to relearn how to refer to that country.

but i did it

thanks for that link.

[DFW]

30. Do you speak Russian or Ukrainian?

Last edited Tue Jun 3, 2025, 06:56 PM - Edit history (1)

That claim makes no sense. Slavic languages have no articles. Украйна (the Russian spelling) means “the Ukraine,” “a Ukraine,” and “Ukraine.” It’s the same in Ukrainian. There is no “Russian way of saying it.” You can translate it how you want. Just like the Russian newspaper правда translates as “The Truth” and/or “Truth.” There is no “Russian way to say it” because it’s the same.

The country to my immediate west calls itself “Nederland.” The people there don’t get on our case because we call it “The Netherlands,” and they don’t bash the Germans because the Germans say “Die Niederlande.”

The British call what we call “Lebanon” “The Lebanon.” As the second language there (i.e. Lebanon) is French, and in French it is “Le Liban,” should they be giving us a lesson in political correctness for leaving out the article?

The majority German-speaking Swiss call their country “Die Schweiz (Schwyz in local dialect), “ so are we incorrect in not saying “The Switzerland?”

And the Italians must really be confused, because while they say, “siamo in Italia adesso (we’re in Italy now),” they also say “l’Italia é un paese bello (the Italy is a beautiful country.” )

There is no correct way or incorrect way to translate Украйна or Украïна into English as far as usage of an article goes, because in their language, there is no difference at all. In Germany, it is “die Ukraine,” and our Ukrainian immigrant neighbor says it that way when he speaks German (my wife speaks no Russian). Any argument over which is correct in English makes no sense to Russians or Ukrainians, because to them, it’s an argument over something neither language has. It’s an argument we made entirely by ourselves.

If you’re old enough, you’ll remember that Natasha would tell Boris, “look! Is moose and squirrel!” Someone among the scriptwriters was familiar with Slavic languages.

[BaronChocula]

8. I nominate this post and analysis

for a DUey Award.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

10. The only similarity is At Dawn They Slept. . . . nt

[Melon]

11. Absolutely. It's a war. Sneaky things are fair play in war.

[flashman13]

12. It was much more a Midway type event. The embattled and out numbered U.S. fleet

appears out of no where at just the right time and place and delivers the Japanese an epic defeat.

[dchill]

13. Conclusion:

Right-wing “media” is now mainstream media. And vice versa.

[Crunchy Frog]

25. And freely regurgitates pro russian narratives.

[Godot51]

14. Bullies...

.. we aren't allowed to fight back against bullies in the drumpf/putin/xi/un world.

[WarGamer]

16. And the scale is nowhere near Pearl Harbor at all.

So far around 15 destroyed aircraft of all types verified on satellite photos as of today.

[Kaleva]

28. Russian bloggers seem to be pushing it

Arguing for a massive retaliation similar in scale to the one the US did in response to Imperial Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor.

[DFW]

31. Not surprising

Oahu was a somewhat less spread out target than Russia.

[BannonsLiver]

34. I knew you'd be mad about it and try to diminish what was a wildly successful operation.

Doesn’t look like the Ukrainians are going with your preferred unconditional surrender route anytime soon.

[WarGamer]

35. not mad at all...

As usual it's a 24/7 reacting to overreactions...

Pouring cold water on burning fires of hopium and disinformation.

[dobleremolque]

17. Whatever you want to call it, Ukraine's action sent

shock waves through every military establishment and war college on the planet. While the Russians are trying to portray it as a surprise cause for social galvanization to support their illegal aggression against Ukraine, that's not how this attack is comparable to Pearl Harbor's effect on people in the United States.

How it is like Pearl Harbor is that it is causing a rethink of military doctrine. Strategic and tactical analysis of Pearl Harbor led to de-emphasis on battleships and the rise of aircraft carriers and aviation as the focal point of military power and preparedness.

Truckloads of commercially available quad-copters modified to carry ordinance, smuggled deep into enemy territory, destroying an estimated 1/3 of Russia's strategic bomber fleet, focuses the question on how much military battlefield doctrine should rely on the current configuration of tanks, artillery, air defense missile systems, long range bombers, cruise missile systems, and Iron Dome/Golden Dome defense systems.

And the Ukrainians weren't even first with this strategy. Innovative drone usage during the 2020 skirmishes between Azerbaijan and Armenia over Nagorno-Karabakh caught the attention of military strategists and analysts across the planet. But it didn't generate the headlines and the popular notoriety that Ukraine's raid has.

[BidenRocks]

22. There is no Golden Dome!

It lives with Star Wars.

[reACTIONary]

19. The reason for the analogy that I have heard is that...

... the Japanese attack was a ground breaking innovation in warfare strategy. Never before had a long distance attack been carried out by transporting planes over the sea into close proximity to the enemy. It was an unexpected and innovative attack that changed the nature of warfare.

So too with Ukraine's attack, covertly transporting drones into close proximity to strategic targets that were considered safe and secure, and then launching them all at once.

Ukraine just rewrote the rules of war - A drone attack damaged Russia’s bomber fleet — and exposed air base vulnerabilities worldwide.

WaPo, no paywall https://wapo.st/3HnPS2l

[True Dough]

33. That makes sense

It's not the most fitting analogy, but the parallel that you're citing helps connect the dots.

[Crunchy Frog]

20. I've only seen it referred to that way in a tweet

by George Galloway. But then I haven't really been looking at mainstream media and certainly not RW media.

[Grins]

23. That wasn't the point!

It had nothing to do with a sneak attack. It was all about Ukraine changing the way war is conducted.

The Japanese almost took out the Pacific fleet - using carriers and aircraft. Their success ended the supremacy of battleships. Worldwide.

Ukraine took out 1/3rd of Russia’s strategic bombers in minutes - with drones - hidden in plain sight of the base. Probably $2-billion worth of strategic air power, in bases separated by thousands of miles - GONE! At practically the same moment.

And every military in the world noticed!
That was the “Pearl Harbor” moment.
It would have been better to call it the, “Oh shit!” moment.

[Skittles]

26. your reasoning is sound

good point.....I agree

[pecosbob]

29. Not a Pearl Harbor moment at all. It was a Scapa Flow moment, for those versed in naval history.

For those not, a German submarine torpedoed two battleships of the British Home Fleet at it's home base...a military disaster of the first order.

Consider this...now Russia has to inspect and monitor every containerized vehicle within proximity of any it's military installations from the Kola Peninsula to Siberia. Ukraine was able to penetrate Russia's border in multiple locations and even used Russian nationals for the last mile delivery.

[DFW]

32. Whatever the true number of aircraft destroyed

The fact that the Ukrainians managed to pull this off at all is of significance in that they made precision strikes deep within Russia and took out weapons that the Russians thought were far beyond any danger of Ukrainian attack. Now, they will have to expend immense resources in defending bases they thought were out of danger. That is a lot of defending, which probably suits the Ukrainians just fine. Units defending air bases beyond the Urals are not available to attack Kharkiv on their weekends off.

This may mean Nephew Kim may need to send Uncle Vladímir some more “volunteer” cannon fodder, but he doesn’t seem to be running low on them yet.

[elocs]

36. I gotta say...I don't care and will be trashing this thread in a moment. n/t

[Torchlight]

37. I think the comparison is in regards to a new, relatively untried tactic

yielding stunning, dramatically disproportionate results (one third of Russia's long range air fleet gone overnight with zero allied casualties is measurably, a very dramatic result).