I Think the Next Kent State Incident Is Imminent.

[MineralMan]

Given the ragtag mess of people involved in actions by ICE and other agencies, I think it is only a matter of time before some moron with a mask opens fire on individuals or even a crowd. My question is: What will happen after that incident occurs?

As soon as the news about Kent State came out, the University where I was studying, using my GI Bill benefits emptied out onto the public areas of the campus. Similar demonstrations occurred just about everywhere around the country. It was a breaking point, I think.

What will happen this time? I don't have a clear idea of what I expect when the Proud Boys and other faceless people in tactical gear open fire on protestors..

What do you think? Do you think I'm being premature with my expectations about this? What do you think we should be preparing to do when it happens?

[snowybirdie]

1. You are spot on

The Orange man wants it to happen

[MineralMan]

3. Yes, he does. That makes it extra frightening.

There is almost no discipline among some of the motley people wearing various war costumes.

[3catwoman3]

53. "...motley people wearing various war costumes."

Most of whom, I'm speculating, have never served.

[MineralMan]

56. Could well be. Problem is that we don't know who they are.

And that's deliberate. Very worrisome.

[Bmoboy]

2. But the war kept going

Lots of demonstrations and Nixon was re-elected 18 months later.

Change is constant if not predictable.

[MineralMan]

4. Yes, it did.

[newdeal2]

5. I fear nothing good

Meaning no consequences. MAGA world will justify it and move on.

[MineralMan]

6. That is certainly possible, and absolutely frightening.

[ybbor]

20. I agree

People I grew up with (used to call them friends) cheered when Kyle fuckface was acquitted, saying he should have shot more. They will cheer again and blame those using their First Amendment rights.

[Lucky Luciano]

39. I'm definitely on the opposite side of your asshole former friends.

There should have been 1000+ dead MAGAts on the Capitol steps when they attempted their coup. Merciless machine gun firepower should have taken them all out.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

70. I think "merciless machine gun firepower" would have been criminal.

But more should have been done to stop the coup-supporting/committing, murderous rioters from entering the Capitol. After they'd breached it, they shouldn't have been allowed to leave without being arrested.

And I can't see how anyone can justify the Justice Department not immediately investigating the hell out of everyone involved. Some law enforcement officers & members of Congress almost certainly aided & abetted the violent trespassers. And, of course, a certain asshole incited the whole thing.

Countless related crimes were committed on that day. Garland dropped the ball. And now we've got the fascist regime in power.

[homegirl]

47. I fear the opportunity

Trump has been waiting for to declare martial law and suspend Congress and voting rights. His opening for an instant conversion to a full blown Trump dictatorship!

So, is it now okay for a president to threaten someone if that person opposes the president politically?

It seems to me that in a truly democratic system, that should be unacceptable.

But I predict, with a fair amount of confidence, that Republicans, Trump supporters, and a large percentage of the U.S. electorate will not strongly, loudly, vigorously object to this threat as something unacceptable.

Thus, our political nation is coming to accept this sort of anti-democratic threatening as something tolerable and "normal" or "mainstream."

We are watching the country degrade politically before our very eyes. The Republicans are accepting it. And a great deal of the U.S. electorate doesn't seem particularly concerned.

Our democracy seems to be withering of apathy and irresponsibility right in front of us, in real time; and there seems to be no widely shared urgency to save it before it is gone for good.

[no_hypocrisy]

7. TSF will overcompensate b/c of TACO and his

perceived emasculation. This is his M.O. to do it.

[CrispyQ]

8. I believe it will happen this week. The American military will gun down American citizens.

Shoot first. Ask questions later.

I can't believe I'm saying this but I believe they're setting the stage this weekend, for a showdown in LA this week or DC next Saturday. They know Newsom isn't the type of gov to let this shit slide like my gov would probably do. I expect ICE to hit churches this morning just to outrage people. It'll make great television. Trump, the greatest reality TV show president ever. He makes me sick. I hope he dies this week before his stupid pathetic parade.

[MineralMan]

12. I fear that you may well be right.

[dalton99a]

9. Trump has always wanted it. It will happen.

[mcar]

10. I fear you are correct

We don't even know who these masked gun-wielding thugs are. I've read reports that some are pardoned J6ers. They cannot all be trained LEOs.

[sinkingfeeling]

11. Yes, someone will shoot someone and then the regime will declare martial law.

[MineralMan]

13. I think that is Trump's goal.

It is an unworthy goal, to say the least.

[Hekate]

14. I believe you. And I don't know what happens next, but you are not premature to ask...

We are on the cusp of — something.

[Jean Genie]

15. Kent State revisited

Sadly, I think you're right.

[Ritabert]

16. They want to outlaw the protests scheduled for next Saturday

...to counter his NK-style military parade.

[CrispyQ]

49. I read he's worried protestors will show up in chicken outfits.

Don't know if that's true but he's fragile enough to believe it is.

on edit: I checked out Amazon & there are a ton of different chicken masks. Besides identifying us, maybe that's another reason he wants no-masks-allowed at protests. OMG, I'm so sick of this piece of orange shit!

[Ritabert]

73. I like the chicken mask idea.

[Jack Valentino]

76. The Original "Chicken Man" was a fearless crime fighter...

The new chicken man is a fearful criminal...

&list=PLthHSTPzMlJCYEpO1_cptaOoGnCBjczvr

[murielm99]

79. I remember.

"He's everywhere! He's everywhere!"

[Ping Tung]

17. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Isaac Asimov

[lastlib]

42. In the Crime Minister's case, it's the FIRST refuge.

He wants it. It will be his excuse to invoke the Insurrection Act and declare martial law, make himself president for life. This has been my expectation since he got elected.

[bluescribbler]

18. I believe it will happen.

And I fear that nothing will be done about it, just as nothing was done after Kent St. Oh, there was a "commission" with a mandate to "investigate", but it was all toothless. There were zero indictments. There were zero new laws designed to prevent a recurrence. It grieves me to say this.

[PatSeg]

19. I was having the same thoughts this morning

The shock and outrage of that day came flooding back when I read that Trump called out the National Guard. I'm afraid the sequel is going to be far worse.

[llmart]

45. I had the same thoughts also.

I just posted on another thread about this very thing even before reading this thread. But then again, I was college aged at the time of Kent State and lived about 40 minutes away.

[PatSeg]

54. That iconic photo flashed in my mind

and I got the same feeling of shock and grief that I experienced 55 years.

[llmart]

58. I'll never forget the blood running in the street.

Back in the day (as the young uns would say) Kent was considered the local "party school". I lived in an apartment with two roomies and since Kent was only a quick ride away for us, we would occasionally go there on the weekend. We were so young and so idealistic and all three of us were anti-war. My one roommate was engaged to a guy who was serving in Viet Nam and he was killed in action. I will never forget when someone came to our apartment door to inform her that he had been killed.

Those were some heady times.

[PatSeg]

63. Yes, they certainly were heady times

There was so much going on all the time and it was often hard to keep up. I couldn't wait to read the newspaper every morning and later we'd watch late night talk shows.

[murielm99]

21. It was a breaking point.

I was a senior in college then. Even my peaceful Christian college experienced the unrest.

I remember a sign someone hung out of his dorm window: "You can't kill us all." Well, it seemed like they were trying. We were boomers and there were a lot of us. We were being drafted and then shot at on college campuses. Don't forget Jackson State!

Until everyone comprehends that they are at risk, nothing will change.

[MineralMan]

22. Earlier in this thread, someone pointed out that

nothing was really done after Kent State. However, we all know what happened there, even if we weren't alive at the time. What happened was a bit of an awakening, I think. We remember. We will know it is happening again. Perhaps we will do differently this time. I don't know.

[questionseverything]

74. I think Kent state was the beginning to the end of the draft

[kelly1mm]

78. Was not President Nixon re-elected after Kent State? nt

[murielm99]

80. Yes, but look at his opponent: McGovern!

There could not have been a weaker candidate. Everyone knew he would lose in a landslide. And Watergate was mixed up in that whole election mess. Nixon was growing more unpopular even while he was being sworn in for a second term, and he had to resign two years later.

[Vogon_Glory]

23. I fear that Orange Julius is trying for something bigger: another Tlatelolco

For those who don’t know, in 1968 the Mexican military opened fire on a crowd of peaceful protestors. The official death toll was in the hundreds. The actual death toll is believed to be in the thousands.

[MineralMan]

25. I certainly hope it does not go that far.

I remember that. I remember worrying that it might happen here. Thankfully, it did not.

[Vogon_Glory]

27. I hope so, too. n/t

[Beringia]

64. I looked it up, United States was responsible for that too

The massacre followed a series of large demonstrations called the Mexican Movement of 1968 and is considered part of the Mexican Dirty War, when the U.S.-backed Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) government violently repressed political and social opposition.

[Vinca]

24. I was thinking that very same thing this morning only I suspect it will be on a larger scale since Trump's got

the goon squad all hyped up and read to kill. It's going to be bad.

[bronxiteforever]

26. K&R Very good points MM.

I hadn’t thought about the multiple agencies could create issues when they are operating in this manner.
I believe you are correct. I also believe the Trumplicans want to light the fuse to create a martial law excuse.

One thing I believe would be the outcome of any violence-the economy may crash. It is all ready on pins and needles.

[MineralMan]

32. Yes. Trump wants desperately to declare an emergency and

enable martial law. Once he does that, the future gets very iffy, I believe.

I'm worried about today, actually. It is Pentecost, and churches are full of people. I fear that ICE is going to invade Catholic churches looking for "illegals." It's a dangerous time just now.

[bronxiteforever]

38. Wow. That would be very bad.

I think you are completely right that it is going to get ugly and violent. I also think it is just starting.

[Hey Joe]

28. I'm afraid it will be

Kent State times ten
or more.
So ashamed of my country right now and sickened by our piss poor excuse for a government.

[Borogove]

29. I fear you're probably right. They really do want to kill us.

I was at a protest rally back in April and had the unfortunate experience of standing close to a MAGA clown. He was openly fantasizing about gunning us all down with his automatic rifle.

[MineralMan]

33. Yes. Those people definitely exist and are a threat.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

30. What if

One of the Guardsmen decides to shoot one of the Gestapo instead?

[MineralMan]

34. I doubt that is going to happen. I doubt it very much.

[Tbear]

31. Are you afraid to protest yet?

It’s the threat of death or imprisonment to inspire fear.

[MineralMan]

35. Afraid? No, I'm not afraid.

However, I will be 80 years old next month. My days of street protesting are over. I simply can't do that any longer.

[Ocelot II]

36. I remember Kent State, too.

The situation was extremely chaotic; it was never conclusively determined who ordered the guardsman to fire or if there even was an order, but the result was intense outrage and even more demonstrations. I think the situation is potentially worse now because there will be orders to fire, and they will come from the top.

[MineralMan]

37. Yes. Exactly.

[FailureToCommunicate]

55. I'm pretty sure it was thought that a FBI informant provocateur was the first shooter, provoking the

Guard to assume -incorrectly- that they were being fired upon from the protestors.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Norman

[Ocelot II]

60. I remember hearing about that, though if it's true it was never made public.

It's certainly possible, though it's also possible that a few of the guardsmen panicked because some of the protesters were throwing things and fired without being ordered to do so. It was a messy situation that was never adequately explained. At the time Kent State was a one-off, since although police regularly arrested, tear-gassed and roughed up demonstrators they had never killed anybody before.

This time, though, I expect there will be direct orders to fire and a few demonstrators will get shot, with the specific intent of scaring people and suppressing future protests.

[DFW]

40. I'm not sure it will happen at a university, but I think it could easily happen.

However, with the immense proliferation of firearms in the USA in the past 55 years, I think the possibility of a push-back with equal arms (if not equal numbers) is greater, as well. After the first shooting death at the hands of Noem's thugs, the last inhibition to armed resistance will have been removed. Some of the resisters will have had military training, so there will be snipers. It will not be Kent State 2.0 or another Boston Massacre. It will be more like the Warsaw Ghetto uprising with little pity and many casualties on either side until there is full capitulation, and it will be repeated several times before it quiets down. Better it doesn't get started, but the federal government doesn't seem to consider de-escalation to be a concept worth exploring.

[MineralMan]

44. I can't predict the reaction.

Many of the highly armed people are more on Trump's side than the other. Some people, like myself, own firearms, but do not engage in brandishing them. I keep mine for actual defense of my home and family. I would be very unlikely to take any of them to any sort of protest. That would not, to me, seem to be a prudent decision.

[DFW]

50. Not prudent to the likes of us. But the question isn't about elderly Anglo white guys.

If you're a naturalized citizen from Central America, or even one born here, with armed family members of precarious legal status, and armed thugs with no warrants cruising your neighborhood, defense of your family may take on a whole new meaning, and theirs would have been formed in neighborhoods where survival means shooting back when threatened, no matter by whom, especially if you can't tell right away.

[Mz Pip]

41. Tin soldiers and Trump's a coming

We’re finally on our own…

[Ocelot II]

52. This summer I hear the drumming,

? dead in... ?

[GiqueCee]

43. There has already been...

... an incident in which a seriously overweight alleged ICE agent pointed a loaded pistol at a woman while screaming, "GET BACK!" I suspect, with a high degree of certainty, that Proud Boys are mixed in with the real ICE Gestapo. I doubt that anyone loaded down with the kind of excess ballast that boy had would pass the physical to be a sworn ICE agent.
And these Mr. Macho Jockstrap Proud Boys are a bunch of trigger-happy assholes, so one of 'em is going to cap somebody at some point. Then it's ON.

An interesting aside: Legend has it that ranchers used to refer to geldings that thought they still had balls, as "Proud Boys." That fits.

[MineralMan]

46. I'm also skeptical about the credentials of the masked "ICE" officers.

Clearly, they do not want to be identified. Why that is is open to question, but your theory is a good one, I think.

[moniss]

48. I've written extensively before about my experience

when Kent State happened. It affects me still to this day. The lies and the coverup still to this day are a stain that will never leave and make a mockery, along with other incidents, of the people who claim the US government and the states act for fairness and justice.

[Warpy]

51. Hard to say

The original Kent State murders just made protesters angrier and while a few protests were large, well organized and peaceful, many turned nasty very quickly if any cops showed up.

We were lucky back then, Nixon was a bastard who violated the law but he knew where some of the lines he couldn't cross were. The goons in office now see those lines and don't give a fuck and will bring out the full force of the military against a fw demonstrations to scare people off.

That usually doesn't work but I have no idea how far this bunch of crooks will go.

[LoisB]

57. It is inevitable.

[flashman13]

59. No - I absolutely don't think you are premature. I could happen today.

However, you do mention a single moron. That is not what happened at Kent state. No one really know who fired the first shot. But after that first shot, what we call "buck fever" sets in. Everyone in the group starts shooting until their gun runs dry. We have seen it over and over again in police situations. One man fires and everyone empties their weapon.

[twodogsbarking]

61. Shit is likely to happen. It is an opportunity for the oppressors in many ways. You are likely correct.

The Eve of Destruction.

[peggysue2]

62. My husband just said the same thing

I read him the Bill Kristol tweet about the Administration's 'excuse' for the National Guard in CA.

His response?

Kent State.

For those of us old enough to remember that day, it was indeed a turning point. And that single, horrific photo burned itself into everyone's consciousness.

[MineralMan]

66. I'm sure it is occurring to a lot of people who lived that.

It's different, but much the same, as well.

[pandr32]

65. I think the Fascist Felon is counting on it.

It will give him the excuse to declare martial law. He knows he is creating a perfect storm for it.

All it will take is for someone to pull a pistol on the illegitimate 47's goon and there are millions of guns in this country. With these peaceful protests being framed as riots in the MSM as instructed and in so many places at the same time there seems to be no chance violence won't explode. The Gestapo Goons are already throwing people down , shoving them, and running them over.

In the past he had his guys dressed in black pretending to be Q-Anon and breaking shop windows during a peaceful demonstration. He could do that again if no single person provides the excuse. We can't forget the staged assassination attempt either.

No way, no how is he going to allow the well organized June 14th mass protests to be successful. He had to know of the enormous crowds full of people protesting him and his DOGE hackers screaming "Hands Off!!!!" There were protests all over the world--not just here.The fragile Mr. Crowd-size can't handle it. He feels threatened and slighted. He will never go off somewhere and lick his wounds or go away.

I'm almost 100% sure martial law will be declared before June 14th where the biggest American protests in history would upstage his birthday parade.

[hay rick]

67. The first shot can be fired from either side.

Calling out the National Guard puts a whole bunch of troops in harm's way. If one is shot Trump will go straight to martial law and martial law will mean what he says it means. Bondi, Hegseth, Noem, etc. will not disagree.

[MineralMan]

69. Yes, it can. We may not even know who fired the first shot.

It doesn't matter, really.

[Mblaze]

68. If Tiananmen Square was in Trump's America,

The tank would have rolled right over that student.

[nini]

71. Kent state is going to look like a party compared to what's coming

I expects hundreds dead in LA. I also expect they are underestimating some of the pushback they'll get.

[MineralMan]

72. "what's coming" I guess you meant.

I have no idea exactly what is coming.

[struggle4progress]

75. ... everybody still talks about how badly they were shocked

But me --- I expected it to happen: I knew he had lost control
when he built a fire on Main Street and shot it full of holes ...

[hamsterjill]

77. I fear you are right.

I think that's what Trump wants. He likes hurting people and he's just looking for an opportunity to make someone an example of the "power" that he wields.

I have been simply, incredibly emotional all day. I grew up in the sixties and it's like time has been rewound and is replaying. But not in the same way. This seems much more dangerous and unsteady.

I don't know what I will do when something happens. I'm not young and I wouldn't want to be a physical burden on someone else, but I feel I'd have to do SOMETHING in order to be able to live with myself.

[canetoad]

81. I do too

The post below yours in GD says 500 marines are being deployed. Things could turn really nasty.

[Skittles]

82. they know that fascist Trump would pardon them

yup

[Dan]

83. I think bullets travel both ways

All hell will break lose.

The Hispanic people haven't historical been subject to the subjugation in America like Black's and Native Americans. They probably don't know that they're not supposed to fight back.

Plus the demonstrations taking place today have a lot of white folks, so it's going to be hard to demonize the protestors.