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[PeaceWave]

This message was self-deleted by its author (PeaceWave) on Mon Sep 8, 2025, 09:44 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Peacetrain]

1. Hmmph well isn't that a kick in the teeth..

The Uncommitted Movement.. living in the middle of the country, he is not first on my list so do not know much about him.. but that is not in his favor with me.. just saying

[choie]

2. I'll say the same thing to you

"c'mon man" stop with the "subtle" anti-Mamdani posts.

[Autumn]

5. "c'mon man" ? Now you know it's a fresh young Progressive to kick around.

Those don't come around too often ya know.
Truth is, it's anything but subtle.

[Nanjeanne]

22. People seem to forget the Uncommitted Movement was in the primaries as a way to try to influence candidates on Gaza.

Mamdani took a courageous stance in the primaries for the people of Palestine. There's no indication that he didn't vote for Harris. In fact - that rag the NY Post mentioned that Kamala's stepdaughter Ella Emhoff backed Mamdani.

I won't link to a NY Post site but anyone can google it if they wish to.

[Autumn]

29. The more I hear him talk, the more I learn about him, I admire him more.

The way he explains things, he's right up there with Pete.

[Oopsie Daisy]

38. Once a voter has been convinced to disengage from the primary, they're not returning for the General.

They've given up whatever sentimental or emotional attachment that they may have had by actually being loyal and supporting the party. Anyone who encouraged or supported this type of behavior has some explaining to do and should have "their feet held to the fire" ... an expression we've often heard used against Obama and Biden.

[Nanjeanne]

49. Oh really? I didn't know that. I was disengaged in the primary but returned for the General. I must have been the

only one. Thanks for giving me the scoop on voters.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

50. Same here

I've been disengaged if I felt the Dem in a primary was Republican-light, but I always came back and voted Dem in the general.

[Nanjeanne]

87. Well that's two of us. But we must be outliers because someone much more knowledgeable said so.

Last edited Tue Jul 1, 2025, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

[sheshe2]

130. Please clarify your comment.

I am hoping I am just misreading your comment, Just_Vote_Dem. You can't mean that you think Harris was 'Republican-light'.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

131. Not Harris, heck no

I'm talking about some races in Mass., local/state.

[Oopsie Daisy]

53. You're welcome.

[KPN]

71. You know that how? Where's the research and data showing that?

Last edited Mon Jun 30, 2025, 11:24 PM - Edit history (1)

[Oopsie Daisy]

73. The election results speak for themselves.

[KPN]

114. Okay, so pure speculation and surmising as I thought. Only those people who may not have voted or voted Trump due to

Gaza are to blame. Right. And, blame of course is important for you.

[vanessa_ca]

121. They do? So let's talk about how Trump got 35% of the Jewish vote

As long as we're wildly throwing stones around, let's throw some factual ones. Instead of manufacturing outrage because some people went uncommitted for the Primary, let's talk about people who went fully committed FOR Trump for the General election.

Such transparent bullshit being tossed around in this thread by the same loud centrist minority.

Washington, DC - The Republican Jewish Coalition released the following statement on Pew Research's comprehensive report showcasing President Donald J. Trump's historic success with Jewish voters in the 2024 election. The Jewish community was a significant part of his decisive winning coalition:

RJC CEO Matt Brooks said:

The Pew Research Center's comprehensive report, Behind Trump’s 2024 Victory, a More Racially and Ethnically Diverse Voter Coalition, confirms yet again what the RJC has been consistently saying: cycle after cycle, more and more Jewish Americans are moving to the GOP--and 2024 was no different.

The results are clear: President Trump received 35% of the national Jewish vote, the highest percentage for a Republican for President since the 1980's, and an historic hemorrhaging of support from the Democrats.

The 2024 election represents a 15%(!) swing in President Trump's favor in the Jewish community.

Notably, 31% of Jewish voters identified as Republicans in the Pew survey, which is the highest percentage on record.

The RJC is proud to have played a significant role in driving more Jewish voters to President Trump and the GOP, and our work continues!

Thank you for your attention to this matter.
https://www.rjchq.org/rjc_highlights_president_trump_s_historic_success_with_jewish_voters

[mountain grammy]

149. Sadly true and I believe it made a difference

and helped to give trump and Netanyahu permission to proceed and expand their war against humanity.

[LudwigPastorius]

109. Re: disengage from the primary

It wasn't a "stay at home" movement, it was a "cast an uncommitted vote" movement.

[PufPuf23]

129. Good imagination. nt

[Happy Hoosier]

155. And it transformed into a movement that helped give is Trump.

Any honest analysis would acknowledge that.

Still support him for Mayor, but let's not pretend that shit did not happen.

[Pisces]

3. It's unbelievable how many Dems want to sink Mamdani. I don't think these attempts are getting the results you

think they are. Gillibrand et al are showing a terrible look by attacking him for being Muslim. Its gross and turning the youth vote against Dems!!

[Autumn]

6. The hatred towards Muslims here is shocking.

[leftstreet]

9. +1

[Mossfern]

67. Is it hatred toward Muslims

or challenging some acts and words of one candidate who happens to be Muslim?
I think the opinions of many people would be the same if he were an atheist.

[Autumn]

72. Hatred. They demand something from him that they expect from no one else. nt

[Mossfern]

88. I respectfully disagree with you

It's not because of his faith - there are other Muslim elected officials.
It's more likely that he dismissed and made statements that just fall short of agreeing with
"globalize the Intifada." There are plenty of people who are not Muslim who are chanting that.

I have no idea of whether or not they are aware of what it means to people of Jewish faith or ancestry.

[mcar]

91. That is simply not true

I see constant OPs and posts here demanding elected Democrats or candidates say this or that, disavow a comment, etc.

“Holding their feet to the fire.” Why does that apply to every other Democrat but not Mamdani?

[intelpug]

123. Mamdani

So, Which is he, A Democrat or a Democratic Socialist? We have been told before on this board that the two are not one and the same. If so, Why the disdain for Bernie when he chose to run on the Democrat ticket ? He was treated as an interloper not that long ago for that. Also, not too long ago I made a point about AOC styling herself as a "Democratic Socialist" . I was told here that if truth be known she is really more like a nineties progressive or some such and should really drop the "Socialist '' tag since it has negative connotations with much of the public. If this is true and this guy is really just a Democrat then why the ''Democratic Socialist'' label. From what I have been told in the past on this board you can be one or the other but not both

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

137. THIS!!

[choie]

101. Have you actually read what he said

Or what has been described in the media?

[Mossfern]

112. I read what he said.

Otherwise I would not have commented on it.

[choie]

100. Amen

[purple_haze]

178. Hatred is a strong word

[totodeinhere]

7. Well either he supported the uncommitted movement against President Biden

or he didn't. And apparently he did. So since he did what is wrong with pointing that out? It's the truth and the truth is always best.

[BannonsLiver]

14. But young voters and other things!

This cannot stand!

[AZProgressive]

76. He did have a massive youth turnout

The Democrats spent a lot of money following the election to try to understand young men and focus test messages for them but Mamdani is a candidate that was able to do that organically.

Not sure if Democrats are serious about winning future elections. Trying to tear down someone that can bring new & disaffected voters to the poll makes no sense to me and trying to force the Biden position on Gaza on candidates isn't likely to win many elections since the occupation/genocide is unpopular with a majority of Democrats.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

81. Unfortunately, many people fear change

Especially those who are already well off.
I grew up in a housing project in the Northeast and the last time I visited, it was heartbreaking as it actually looked worse there than I remembered it.. We need change and more Mamdanis, there are so many lives at stake.

[BannonsLiver]

86. There are other issues that are unpopular with Democrats that many people here find perfectly acceptable.

I’m not and never will be a single issue voter so hard to relate to all of that re: Gaza.

[fujiyamasan]

113. I also don't think most democrats agree with "seizing the means of production"

Yep, it’s an actual quote. And he can’t blame this on “youthful indiscretion”. This was said in 2021.

https://www.mediaite.com/media/news/watch-zohran-mamdani-calls-for-seizing-the-means-of-production-and-unapologetic-socialism/

[yardwork]

143. He was 28 or 29 when he said it. Thats pretty youthful.

Also, if you read the quotes at your link, he was literally saying that most Democrats didn't support that. He was making a political speech to a group that helped him gain political power.

I'm on record here saying a lot of negative things about DSA. I'd like to challenge my fellow Democrats today: if the Democratic Party refuses to give power to young Democratic politicians, is it any surprise that they're turning to the DSA and other youth-driven movements?

Think about it.

[purple_haze]

181. This one certainly doesn't!

[Easterncedar]

31. Using a potential promise of his vote in support of human rights

What a monster

[TheProle]

32. Thank you!

If it were a paraphrased quote or the context was in question, I would call a foul on this thread.

But he felt strongly enough that he posted it with a quite dressed up suite of graphics and was unequivocal about his allegiance to, and advocacy of, the uncommitted movement.

He said it and owns that position until he chooses to disavow it.

No one should have to ignore it or tap dance around it

[AloeVera]

92. The problem is the framing. It's dishonest.

The uncommitted movement was not "against" President Biden. It was not looking to run against him or unseat him. It was a protest vote against his specific policy on Gaza, with the goal not of defeating him but shifting his stance on Gaza and Israel. Last time I looked, dissent amongst Democrats on specific issues was allowed. Especially on something as important as funding and arming a nation violating all manner of international and humanitarian law to commit a genocide.

[JustAnotherGen]

98. It doesn't matter now

By the time the Regime falls Gaza will be gone. We'll be too busy with tribunals and rebuilding to something other than the status quo to worry about global issues. We are already a joke on the global stage - we aren't going to have any influence in a very short time.

[purple_haze]

179. I wish I could rec this post 10000 times

[AStern]

40. It's more hatred toward policies that aren't tied to corporate donors and the prison industrial complex

and people wonder why they lose.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

139. Wish I could "pull the lever" for Mamdani!!

[BeyondGeography]

133. There is some seriously bad judgment on display out there

Gillibrand absolutely destroyed herself by lying about Mamdani on WNYC last week. And all these other Dems who have been tut-tutting about Mamdani’s supposed embrace of terror tactics are burning bridges with a lot of voters 45 and under.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

140. Well it's certainly not helping... we need to be unified if were gonna stave off the MAGAts!!

[thought crime]

135. Scare tactics to whip up hysteria

Last edited Tue Jul 1, 2025, 12:04 PM - Edit history (2)

Divide and conquer is the name of their game.

There is absolutely no reason Americans can't have livable cities, except the greed of the Donor Class and the ignorance of MAGA. This is the time for Democrats to adopt the populist economic agenda of Mamdani, AOC, Sanders, the Green New Deal, etc. and once elected we need to show results. It's possible to do that in great blue cities if we reject the blackmail of billionaires and corporations who threaten to flee higher taxes. All cities can act with solidarity. No refuge for oligarchs !

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

136. And these are Democrats!! Mamdani was democratically nominated to be NY's mayoral candidate so let's support him & win!!

[Kingofalldems]

4. Not gonna work.

[Torchlight]

8. Sounds serious

Good luck, man.

[Prairie Gates]

10. Mamdani won the Democratic Primary for Mayor of New York

He won the election fair and square.

I hope he is accorded the same protections on this board as any other Democratic nominee during a going election season.

[BannonsLiver]

12. He's DU's new number one it guy, so I'm sure he will be afforded all of that and more.

[Prairie Gates]

13. It's one of the great values of this space that we collectively agree not to relitigate primaries

And we support the Democratic nominee. I do hope that holds, as it would be a shame to lose that fundamental operating and ethical principle.

[BannonsLiver]

17. Very true.

That being said, to your point, it’s probably a good thing he wasn’t a member here during the last presidential campaign.

[Prairie Gates]

21. DU has developed unique rules and culture, it is true - and they are distinct from norms of public discourse

They've managed to keep the peace and forward the cause when they are consistently applied by juries who put the board's rules above their own interests, even when they are bitterly disappointed by a primary result, or for other unknown reasons interested in sinking the Democratic nominee. It's a good thing.

[SSJVegeta]

28. How do we know he wasnt?

😒 🤔

[RandomNumbers]

80. You mean, you hope people here won't be urging an "Uncommitted" vote

in his election?

Yeah, I hope so too. Even if I would have preferred a different D (not a NYer so it's irrelevant anyway), obviously he is better than the repuke.

But the canonizing of this guy ought to stop, or at least slow down. IF he wins in November, then we'll see how many of his nice-sounding policies actually get implemented - especially the part about paying for them. I for one will be paying EXTREMELY close attention to his actions with regards to reproductive rights. (Yes his platform says he supports reproductive rights, but it doesn't exactly shout it like it does other things.)

Every other Democrat is subject to being picked apart for bonehead positions they have taken. He will not be an exception.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

138. Bernie on line one... pick up.

[Oopsie Daisy]

15. This is very disappointing news. But it explains a lot of what I've been hearing AND NOT HEARING recently.

[Lochloosa]

18. What "situation " He's the Democratic canidate for the Mayor of NY City.

And should be afforded the support of this board.

Situation? Cute.

[Pisces]

45. Reminds me when they called Obama presidency an experiment

[mcar]

103. But primarying incumbent Democrats

a la David Hogg is A OK?

[Lochloosa]

142. This had nothing to do with him, but.i do agree with the sentiment 👏

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. I know a lot of people had hurt feelings about it, but the uncommitted movement was not "against" Biden.

Less-than-full-throated-support is not opposition, nor is pressuring a fellow party member with the only leverage you have.

[Oopsie Daisy]

25. The effect is the same. If an elected official convinces someone to NOT vote in the primary *

* then that voter is no longer emotionally invested in the outcome of the election and (as we saw) they do not return to vote in the General Election either. This was, obviously, against the Democratic candidate... not just a passive-aggressive way to "send a message". This was not "less than full-throated support" (SUPPORT?? WTF?!) indeed, they were treacherous saboteurs.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. The point of "uncommitted" is that people DID vote in the primary, participating in all races but voting "uncommitted"

at the top of the ballot. One could argue that participating in a primary to pull the lever for "uncommitted" definitely shows an emotional investment, particularly when they expected and hoped Biden would be the candidate in the end.

not just a passive-aggressive way to "send a message".

I'm curious about your word choice here. How is sending a message by voting uncommitted "passive-aggressive"?

indeed, they were treacherous saboteurs.

lmao easy there. You give them too much credit. Biden sailed through the primaries.

[Oopsie Daisy]

34. Once they declared themselves as "uncommitted" in the Primaries they never returned for the General.

>> You give them too much credit.
No. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Some did, some didn't; same as all voters.

No. I meant what I said and I said what I meant.

Oh that's clear. It's just too much credit.

[Oopsie Daisy]

39. No.

[RandySF]

56. Yes, it was against Biden.

[lostincalifornia]

62. It was also against VP Harris because the Uncommitted Movement refused to endorse VP Harris

against trump, and that was for the general election, where everyone KNEW who trump was.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024

[BannonsLiver]

75. lol what in the world

[comradebillyboy]

122. The Uncommitted movement was very much against Biden

and when Joe dropped out it was very much against Kamala. In my opinion it was a very anti-Democratic movement from the get go.

[sheshe2]

124. Of course it was against Biden.

And "Uncommitted" is not a vote, it is a cop out. Especially in that critical time when we all knew what was at stake with a second trump win. He made it clear what he was and what he would do, he said he would raze Gaza and more. And we sure as hell is giving us more.

Less-than-full-throated-support is not opposition, nor is pressuring a fellow party member with the only leverage you have.

You state that "pressuring" a fellow party member with an "uncommitted" is the only leverage you have? No, nope, voting yay or nay is your leverage.

[Nixie]

23. So does this mean he didn't vote for our candidate for President?

Maybe someone can ask him to explain.

[Emile]

24. Sick of big money influence slandering our candidates.

[Oopsie Daisy]

43. This shines a new light on the question everyone's been asking wondering why some Democratic leaders *

* have withheld their personal endorsement. Sometimes, the brighter the light, and the longer we look, the clearer things become. I'll reserve judgement for now. I'm sure there are perfectly reasonable explanations forthcoming. --- Stand by.

[Emile]

132. Follow the money.

[lostincalifornia]

26. Well isn't that special. Is it legitimate to ask who he voted for in the General Election?

They also refused to endorse VP Harris in the General Election against trump.

Even though they knew what a trump victory would mean.

Let's here the excuses.

The uncommitted movement also refused to endorse VP Harris against trump.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024

There was such anger by some when it was speculated that Jeffries might do the same thing in the mayoral race. and why was that? because of what it infers?

[SSJVegeta]

27. Nobody's perfect

[pandr32]

30. Well, shit!

[Cha]

52. I've known about it for awhile

And super disappointed

We’ve had many threads on here how most Dems feel about Uncommitted & Leave it Blank.

Aloha pandr 💙🕯️🕊️🌈🌊🇺🇸🇨🇦💛💙

[pandr32]

97. I'm disappointed, too.

We need to come together and embrace our diversity.
Aloha, Cha!

[Cha]

99. Aloha pandr 💙🕯️🕊️🇺🇸🌈🇨🇦💙💛

[Easterncedar]

35. This was during the primary

And the horrors in Gaza could possibly have been mitigated with strong American leverage at that crucial moment. Perhaps we might have been able to avoid the current nightmares in Gaza and even the current political hell here. We will never know. But this slamming Mamdani now for trying to stop the war on civilians then is serving the rethugs’ agenda, not ours.

[lostincalifornia]

37. The uncommited movement refused to endorse VP Harris for the Presidential election against trump?

What do you think that infers?

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024

[Easterncedar]

41. It convinces me that the misinformation machine was effective

I had friends in the community who were convinced that the only power they had in the end was to withhold their vote. They believed they could not in good conscience support the candidate who would not allow the Palestinians to speak at the convention. They were used. Yes, it was short-sighted and even tragic. The outcome is more suffering. No one I know doesn’t regret it.

But who is it now who wants us to fracture over this? Who is being manipulated now?

[lostincalifornia]

61. Then I guess there is sure a lot of manipulation going on, because much of the same folks seem to

be making the same mistake over and over again. 2000, 2016, and 2024.

Did anybody not realize who trump was, and what a second term of trump would mean?

[Easterncedar]

65. You left out 1933. Harris and Walz tried

And we all knew. But the hate campaign works. It’s a well tested method.

[choie]

104. Very good question

It’s usually people who have power.

[yardwork]

144. That is exactly my point.

In order to stop losing, Democrats have to stop purity policing and withholding votes from our nominees.

[JI7]

66. He says he voted for Harris but during the campaign focused

on other local things.

[AloeVera]

84. No inference needed. The movement came out AGAINST voting for Trump or Stein.

Quite strongly, in fact, correctly warning that Trump would be far worse on Gaza and bad for the country and a vote for Stein would be a vote for Trump.

Anything else?

[Mossfern]

116. Did they vote for Harris

or did they stay home in protest?
If they stayed home, then they didn't vote for Trump or Stein as they were instructed, but also they didn't vote for Harris.

Every vote counts

[AloeVera]

151. See post # 150.

[sheshe2]

126. Link please, I must have missed all that.

and if they knew all this:

Quite strongly, in fact, correctly warning that Trump would be far worse on Gaza and bad for the country and a vote for Stein would be a vote for Trump.

Then why did they vote uncommitted or not at all in the Primary and in the GE as well?!!!

[b‘We warned you,’ Arab Americans in Michigan tell Kamala Harris

Dearborn, Michigan – When Fox News called Pennsylvania for Donald Trump in the early hours of Wednesday, all but confirming that he would be the next president of the United States, there were a handful of Arab activists left at a watch party in Dearborn, Michigan.

snip
As the reality of another Trump presidency set off anger and sorrow from many Democratic commentators, at the Dearborn gathering organised by American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC), there was a sense of indifference – if not vindication.

snip
Harris lost the city to Trump by more than 2,600 votes. President Joe Biden beat Trump by more than 17,400 votes – a more than 20,000-vote swing that helped the Republican former president reclaim Michigan.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/11/6/we-warned-you-arab-americans-in-michigan-tell-kamala-harris

[AloeVera]

146. This whole thread incorrectly conflates Uncommitted with Abandon Biden/Harris.

The Uncommitted Movement tried to force a change in policy but did not tell voters to turn away from Democrats and vote for Trump or Stein as the Abandon movement did.

Here is the link and excerpts.

"Harris’s unwillingness to shift on unconditional weapons policy or to even make a clear campaign statement in support of upholding existing U.S. and international human rights law has made it impossible for us to endorse her," organizers of the Uncommitted National Movement said in a statement.

"At this time, our movement 1) cannot endorse Vice President Harris; 2) opposes a Donald Trump presidency, whose agenda includes plans to accelerate the killing in Gaza while intensifying the suppression of anti-war organizing; and 3) is not recommending a third-party vote in the Presidential election, especially as third party votes in key swing states could help inadvertently deliver a Trump presidency given our country’s broken electoral college system," the statement continued.

On Trump:

In a press conference after the announcement, leaders stressed that they are urging voters to "block" a second Trump term. But telling voters who have lost loved ones in Gaza to support Harris, Alawieh said, would be "inappropriate."

Alawieh called the non-endorsement "something we have to do."

"We know how dangerous Donald Trump is," he said. "There was no way, ever, that our movement ... would recommend a vote that would specifically help Donald Trump."

"We said to [disenchanted voters] that the way that we would endorse vice president Harris is if she moved her policy, or if she turned the page to a new approach, and she just hasn't done that yet," Alawieh said.

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024

Mamdani is pro-Palestinian, pro human rights. Of course he would want a change in a policy that resulted in the slaughter of thousands as if their rights to protection were non-existent. It is not surprising to me that he advocated for this political strategy of trying to force a change of direction. Did he ever at some point say don't vote for Biden/Harris? I doubt it and no evidence has surfaced.

The bad framing, conflation and lack of context is an attack on him. It's unfair, untrue and no good will come of it.

[choie]

102. Implies not infers.

[vanessa_ca]

46. It's deliberate. Some people would prefer a MAGAT in office than a real progressive

It's apparently an unforgivable sin not to support Netanyahu's war crimes and US complicity in those.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

60. Yep

Many years ago I worked in the Barney Frank campaign when he decided to run in S.E. Massachusetts against the odious Repub Margaret Heckler, and I actually met people who claimed to be Dems, but they didn't want to vote for Frank because he was "too liberal". And this in MA, ugh.

[Celerity]

42. de rec

[Fiendish Thingy]

44. That was for the primary, not the general

A strategic move, rather than voting for an opponent, to attempt to gain platform leverage at the convention.

[AloeVera]

47. Here you are with facts and perspective...

Ruining a good anti-Mamdani thread...

Thank you.

[Oopsie Daisy]

54. The facts were lacking.

[Oopsie Daisy]

48. No... I hate to break it to you, but the "leave it blank" and "Abandon Harris" movement *

was focused on the general election, with efforts to expand to battleground states like Georgia and Wisconsin. The goal is to ensure Harris does not become the 47th President of the United States. Ultimately, the movement promoted by certain individuals officially endorsed Green Party candidate Jill Stein, urging voters, particularly Muslim and Arab Americans, to vote for her instead of Harris.

This was insidious and it went far beyond trying to "send a message" by futzing with primary results.

[Fiendish Thingy]

58. You are mistaken

The “Abandon” movement was separate and distinct from the “Uncommitted”, even if they shared some members.

Unless somebody uncovers evidence that Mamdani actively worked to persuade voters to stay home in November, this story is a nothingburger.

[Oopsie Daisy]

63. Yes it was. You're correct about that... but...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20445784

[Fiendish Thingy]

77. So both supported the "uncommitted" strategy

But only one supported the “Abandon” movement, and it wasn’t Mamdani.

Guilt by association is a republican tactic.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

64. Some are trying hard though, bless their hearts :) n/t

[AloeVera]

79. No. Not only was the Uncommitted Movement separate from Abandon Harris...

it specifically urged people to VOTE AGAINST Trump, and AVOID voting for third party candidates.

Excerpt from their statement:

"....Harris’s unwillingness to shift on unconditional weapons policy or to even make a clear campaign statement in support of upholding existing U.S. and international human rights law has made it impossible for us to endorse her," organizers of the Uncommitted National Movement said in a statement.

"At this time, our movement 1) cannot endorse Vice President Harris; 2) opposes a Donald Trump presidency, whose agenda includes plans to accelerate the killing in Gaza while intensifying the suppression of anti-war organizing; and 3) is not recommending a third-party vote in the Presidential election, especially as third party votes in key swing states could help inadvertently deliver a Trump presidency given our country’s broken electoral college system," the statement continued....

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024
Though they succeeded in getting 700,000 votes in the primary and 37 delegates, they were not successful in moving the party to adopt any of its requests, i.e. ceasefire and embargo. They continued to try to reach out to the campaign and there were some unsuccessful meetings. When the campaign said no to an American-Palestinian moderate speaker at the convention, unfortunately they lost the opportunity for the movement to endorse Harris. They did not endorse her, but they warned against voting for Trump or Stein.

Just wanted to set the record straight. This is not the big gotcha it's made out to be.

[Retrograde]

55. That's it - I'm not voting for him

Well, the fact that I don't live in NYC is probably more important.

Given the choices - Mamdani, Sliwa (GOP with no government experience?), probably Cuomo (grudge holding Independent) and possibly Eric Adams (whatever he's calling himself these days), Mamdani looks like the best of the bunch. I hope he can find some good advisors to help him going forward, because NYC is not an easy place to run in the best of times.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

78. Indeed

Amazing how many non-New Yorkers are worried about this.

[mcar]

57. Shame on him. Shame on them all.

Wonder how it feels to know you were deadly wrong.

[lostincalifornia]

70. This speaks volumes I think

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20445784

[AloeVera]

85. Shame for what, exactly?

Is he committing/supporting genocide or something? That indeed would be shameful.

But trying to influence your party's platform through the primaries to include a ceasefire and arms embargo to stop a genocide? Is that the shameful part?

That seems upside down to me.

[Nixie]

128. How is Trump working out for a ceasefire? He wants to build

resorts in Gaza. That’s shameful to hand a monster like Trump the power to crush Gaza so he can make money. Not voting for Harris was a stupid thing to do. And shameful.

[AloeVera]

153. Gaza was crushed while Biden was in office.

The elephant in the room and the whole point of the Uncommitted Movement. The policy enabling the crushing of Gaza and the slaughter of tens of thousands of women and children had terrible consequences, and not changing it was a risk both Biden and Harris took.

By the time Trump came into office Gaza was no longer able to support its population. Everything needed was already destroyed.

Just sayin'.

[Nixie]

161. Trump is finishing Gaza off in pursuit of a capitalist's dreams

yet all you can do is blame Biden. If you’re okay with what Trump is doing then your whole message about Gaza can’t be that genuine. That was the point of the original post you responded to, yet all you have is dated angst against Biden.

This is why it’s hard to take these types of attacks seriously. They have been overcome by current events but you can’t let go of an old bone that obviously fits some favored anti Democrat screeds. What a shame.

[AloeVera]

163. The shame is in not ever speaking out about the war crimes and atrocities. Not in Biden's time and not now.

Not just not speaking out, but defending and rationalizing it.

I would call that some sort of moral failure, as well as shameful.

I have been speaking out continuously, every day, regardless of who holds power. Because a genocide should transcend politics or shielding your side from the uncomfortable truth.

And also - do you not see the irony of what you posted? This is an O/P relitigating the primaries and framing it incorrectly to boot. Talk about "old bones". But it amounted to an unfair attack as well as an invitation by necessity to put it in context and in the correct framework. Would you prefer that there was no push-back on such attacks on a Democrat?

Just for kicks, I'm going to say please watch Uncle Joe's two O/Ps today about what conditions are like in Gaza today and what ISRAEL is inflicting with unfathomable cruelty. I recommended both those threads as I do all threads like that. Many times I comment, in order to TRY to get people to say this is enough, this is unjustifiable. Yet I have yet to see anyone who has consistently been pro-Israel say, yes, I agree this is wrong and I'm speaking up against it. Not in Biden's time and even not now.

So please, your insults and "outrage" mean nothing to me.

[Nixie]

165. You keep blaming Biden when Trump is making a fool out of the

“movements” to teach Harris a lesson by not voting for her.

It looks like teaching politicians lessons and making political statements are the goal, not Gaza, so the morality department isn’t really the issue.

[AloeVera]

168. When you have condemned ISRAEL's barbarity and ayrocities -

AND have watched those videos and dared to look at what Palestinians are suffering, I might be willing to debate morality and pointlessly relitigate a primary whose outcome was favourable with you. Until then, no.

I wager, with those conditions, our debates are over.

Have a nice day.

[Nixie]

169. Gaza was sold down the river willingly to Trump..

You have a nice day, too.

[AloeVera]

172. Whatever lets you sleep at night... n/t

[mcar]

152. What's upside down is campaigning against

The candidate and party that was pushing for a cease fire - Harris/Walz were certainly not supporting genocide, although that is what some of the “pro- Palestine” protestors stated.

How are things in Gaza now that they sent their message to “Killer Kamala?”

[AloeVera]

171. There is "pushing" and then there is "doing".

It's the doing that was the problem.

Even Blinken and/or Sullivan (?) admitted recently they could have done more. That's all the Uncommitted Movement asked for - a real, honest effort. Of cpurse that would have meant conditioning arms and funding and that was a step the Administration was not willing to take.

Like it or not, that's why people stayed at home.

I hope you are keeping up with "how things are" in Gaza. I look forward to the long-awaited and overdue condemnation by your side of Israel's barbaric treatment of Palestinians. There are a million children there who - after 21 months of non-stop trauma and malnutrition - will never now grow into the adults they would otherwise have been. A whole generation or more, lost and diminished. What is that, if not a genocide?

Oh and please show me some evidence of where Mamdani was "campaigning against" Harris. Otherwise, it's just another fabrication to malign and demonize. Nothing new, of course.

[RandySF]

59. There sure is a lot of revisionism of the '24 primaries.

Last edited Mon Jun 30, 2025, 08:19 PM - Edit history (1)

The uncommitted movement turned into the "boycott Biden" movement.

[AloeVera]

93. You mean Abandon Biden/Harris? Nope. Different group.

The uncommitted movement strongly advised against voting for either Trump or Stein or any third party.

But if you have some info to back up your claim, please post!

[Mossfern]

118. If they advised not voting for either Trump or Stein

for whom did that suggest voting?
People may have been confused by the message and just stayed home.

[AloeVera]

150. Obviously the message was to vote for Harris.

In a press conference after the announcement, leaders stressed that they are urging voters to "block" a second Trump term. But telling voters who have lost loved ones in Gaza to support Harris, Alawieh said, would be "inappropriate."

Alawieh called the non-endorsement "something we have to do."

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/19/g-s1-23736/uncommitted-movement-no-endorsement-harris-trump-2024

As much as it distresses me to admit it, it may not have been as obvious to voters who felt betrayed by the party or who lost loved ones.

But that is not the fault of the movement whose only goal was a change in policy. These voters were put in an untenable situation by Biden's unchanging policy supporting and arming a nation committing war crimes and atrocities and lack of acknowledgement of these voters' very valid fears and anguish.

It was a risk both Biden and Harris took. We have to face that it was their choice -with bad consequences. But I know it's easier to project blame onto the voters while ignoring their personal stake/losses and very real human emotions. That's not going to help the party going forward.

[mdbl]

68. Cuomo is runnnig as an independent and will split the dem vote giving the repuke the election.

just my 2 cents.

[Karasu]

69. I agree. This is what people SHOULD actually be worried about. Not Mamdani or anything related to him.

I want to see fascism crushed into the finest of dust particles. Cuomo's stupid independent campaign is in direct opposition to achieving that goal.

[BannonsLiver]

90. The collective meltdown here would be a sight to behold

[Scrivener7]

134. No. The race at this point would be between Cuomo and Mamdani.

No one's voting for Sliwa.

[Zohran25]

159. Cuomo would be splitting votes with Adams, leaving Mamdani a pathway to victory.

[Easterncedar]

74. Hey. Let's go after the Teamsters next

[Docreed2003]

82. ....

Gee I wonder why Dems are struggling when we have propaganda like this that seeks to undermine any movement for equality & tear down any movement that the "party establishment" doesn't agree with.

Go ahead and tear down Zohran...see where that lands us in the midterms and the next presidential election. I'm sure the current party approval rating of just above 20% of the populace will skyrocket overnight from these moves.

[appmanga]

83. This guy is apparently scaring the right people...

...and the folks in NYC can fall for the same kind of bullshit that sank Hillary Clinton.

And just to be clear, if there's ever been a time to be radical in order to fight what's happening in this country, it's now.

[Emile]

89. This reminds me of what happened in our past too.

[choie]

105. If I could recommend this more than once

I would!

[Cha]

115. What "sank Hillary" was GD Fucking Jill Stein's LIES

in the Swing States.

[Zohran25]

170. Hillary refusal to campaigning in swing states cost her the election.

Gary Johnson got more raw votes than Jill Stein in the election. Stein had less of an impact on Trump winning the election.

If Hillary had campaign in states such as Michigan she would have won the election.

[Cha]

173. NO.. GD Jill Stein's LIES That Hillary & Traitor

were the same Cost her the Election, Zohran.

Dave Wasserman
@Redistrict
Jill Stein is now officially the Ralph Nader of 2016.

Stein votes/Trump margin:
MI: 51,463/10,704
PA: 49,678/46,765
WI: 31,006/22,177
9:29 AM · Dec 1, 2016

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/jill-stein-democratic-spoiler-or-scapegoat/

Just like Uncommitted & Leave it Blank Contributed to VP Harris' loss in MI.

Fuck 3rd Party Jill RF Stein.

[yardwork]

145. This!

[RandySF]

94. Uncommitted was universally condemned here.

Now it’s being excused.

[WSHazel]

95. So this guy supported Trump in the Presidential Election?

Didn't any of his supporters look this guy up? Or were they just lying to us about his past positions?

[choie]

106. Are you for real?

That’s scurrilous as is most of the propaganda against Mamdani

[WSHazel]

110. He was officially "uncommitted"

What should we call that?

This guy should have explained his anti-Harris position, but he didn’t. He just tried to pretend it didn’t happen.

This hell we are all living through is in part because of politicians like Mandami that undermined support for Harris.

[AloeVera]

111. No. He did not.

How on earth would you come to that conclusion?

[WSHazel]

141. He supported the "Uncommitted" movement

The United States faced an existential threat with Trump, and Mamdani was working to peel votes away from Harris. What should we call that?

On a personal note, I know someone who claims to have left the top of the ticket blank when he voted because he bought the Uncommitted movement BS. I will never speak to him again.

Actions have consequences, and Mamdani recently engaged in actions whose primary purpose was to undermine the Democratic Presidential candidate. Mamdani seems like a pretty smart guy, so I will assume he knew what he was doing when he did it. Why should anyone support him after this?

[AloeVera]

164. I should have stopped reading at "Mamdani was working to peel votes away from Harris". A fabrication.

As is the claim that the Uncommitted Movement's primary aim was to undermine Biden. Have you never heard of advocating for, trying to force, change in policy and direction through the power of your vote?

Your claims are not only absurd, they malign a Democratic candidate with false allegations.

Bye.

[WSHazel]

166. Lots of people maligned Harris with the "Uncommitted" Movement

The change everyone forced with that movement was helping Trump get elected, and that movement most certainly maligned Harris on an almost daily basis.

I hope all the "Uncommitted" supporters are doing a victory lap today with the expected passage of Trump's budget. Nice work.

[brush]

96. There ya go. And so many here are falling all over themselves to root for this guy...

who didn't support Joe and is a self-avowed socialist. Why didn't he just run as a Democrat.

How many were influenced by him not to vote for Harris?

Now this is just more ammo for the rethug ads just about write themselves.

[choie]

107. Oh no!

Ooga booga “a socialist”! I’m frightened!!

[Mossfern]

119. Maybe not you

but maybe for someone who would have voted for him if he wasn't.

[brush]

176. He clearly signaled he was alieghed with the Muslims who didh't for Harris. Ooga booge at. that.

[AloeVera]

174. How much influence does a New York State Assembly rep have over a presidential election?

Deriving from one tweet 6 months before the election and with 47 likes (current)? Someone who didn't start campaigning until November and didn't come to national attention for many months after that.

I'm surprised by your post.

The attacks on Mamdani here derive from his pro-Palestinian stance, much more than the "socialist" scare that will be employed by the right, unfortunately. Not just the right, centrists like Cuomo too... I fear the attacks from the establishment too.

Perhaps you are not as left-leaning as I am but still I just wanted to point out where the attacks on Mamdani are coming from and also that the Uncommitted Movement, contrary to the framing here, was not "against Biden". It was "for" a policy change by Biden to end the genocide and slaughter in Gaza, using the power of the primary vote. Nor did it ever endorse Trump or Stein, in fact it warned people against voting for them. If you read my other posts in this thread, there are links to their statements.

I just had to get that off my chest. With respect of course.

[brush]

180. If he wins, the mayor of NYC clear has national influence and will be pointed to...

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2025, 04:08 PM - Edit history (1)

as demoratic SOCIALIST who sided with the "genocide Joe" morons who didn't even vote Harris.

The NYC mayor has considerable national influence and rethugs will use that messaging.

[LudwigPastorius]

108. I'm more interested in what he did after that.

...because an "uncommitted" protest vote in a primary doesn't rise to the level of freaking me out about the guy.

[B.See]

125. About Mamdani, I confess I

know little about him other than what bits and pieces I've picked up on herein and elsewhere, as to what he's said, supposedly said, intended and so on.

That being said, I have come away with a free conclusions of my own as to certain aspects of the debate, and what I've seen playing out in Democratic politics of late.

Re. the latter, seems to me there has been a trend in picking apart liberal entities who garner an energized following.

I'm not just talking Mamdani or Hogg, but long standing leftist like Bernie and AOC.
I've noted dismissals of outspoken journalists too, like Reid.

Of course I realize the vast majority of it comes from right winged sources engaging in smear tactics, (heaven forbid should as cult following develop within the ranks of liberals and progressives, eh?) so they start up with the usual barbs and labels,

but some of it comes from other (sometimes surprising) quarters as well, and I have my own suspicions as to why.

Though, as I've written before, perhaps it would behove us to examine WHY some inspire a following.

Regarding (more specifically), 'undecideds' and protest voters, the whole notion of withholding votes (in effect trying to hold America hostage) has always been, and still is repugnant to me.

Because how the f can one be undecided when the only other choice is a Trump dictatorship?

As I've often written, if you were 'undecided' this election, given what was at stake, then you've already decided... against democracy.

How could one not know that? And why even entertain the notion of such a thing?

So needless to say (and as I've said before), I hold them with the same contempt as I do their counterparts of the opposite side... the lobbyists who manipulate Democratic politics not necessarily for US, but on behalf of a foreign entity who has neither plan for peace nor a two state solution... just a plan for war...

one who certainly doesn't give a fk about America except to the extent we can be used and played BY him.

Both, equally detestable, imo.

And I'm SO tired of it.

[purple_haze]

182. Well said

[Buzz cook]

127. It was a good strategy

Last edited Wed Jul 2, 2025, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

Withholding votes in the primary to show how unhappy they were with Biden's complicity in genocide was the lowest impact action people could do.
That Biden didn't even give lip service to that unhappiness was the greater sin. That he denied that there was a genocide or even war crimes was rubbing salt in the wounds.

Even a token performative response would have gone a long way to mending that breach.

[LexVegas]

148. "Biden's complicity in genocide". Don't even try to hide this shit any more, huh? nt

[Demsrule86]

157. Biden was not the candidate. And it was Democrat leaders who didn't

defend Biden and pushed him out... and many here agreed with that. I am not saying you did. However, I find it somewhat amusing to see those who I know called for Biden to step down, blaming Mamdani for Biden's decision not to run. I still believe Biden could have won the rustbelt which is the only way now a days. But we will never know.

[Buzz cook]

186. Biden was the one

Arming the genocide. The protest was aimed at him.
Sadly Harris was tied to the Biden position on Israel.
I doubt the media would have allowed a Biden win.

[Buzz cook]

185. Why hide it?

Giving 2000 pound bombs to the people using them to murder children is complicity.

[B.See]

167. On that last point, I'd have to agree.

MAYBE a better response MIGHT have gone a long way in mending fences. But there was also the bigger picture, as in what "fences" may have been broken in return.

Bottom line, Biden (and later Harris) were placed between a rock and a hard place between these two forces, both exploiting DEMOCRATS in particular for their own interests,

and curiously, with NO demands placed upon TSF and his maga cohorts and whose son joked of beachfront condos in Gaza.

Helluva double standard when u think of it.

hope they're satisfied.

[LexVegas]

147. Of course he did. nt

[Samael13]

154. Yeah he screwed up on that one

Theres alot of hero worship and people ready to fall on their swords to protect him and make excuses for dumb shit he's said. Blaming aipac, the wealthy whatever only goes so far when the candidate has said and done the things he's accused of and there's proof to back it up. This isnt a primary anymore its the general election he's not gonna be speaking only to the democrats he's gotta convince others to vote for him also.

[Demsrule86]

156. I am not in New York...however, the primary has been held and Mamdani won.

Last edited Tue Jul 1, 2025, 11:59 AM - Edit history (1)

He is the Democratic candidate. The voters chose him. I did not agree with the uncommitted move. However, It has nothing to do with this election. I disapproved of those who turned their backs on President Biden which included prominent Democrats and even some here at DU.

I warned if we ran anyone other than Biden, we would lose. I love Kamala Harris and fully supported her, but I never thought she would win the rustbelt. I hoped I was wrong. To my sorrow we lost. And it has been a nightmare. Trump is a disaster.

The fact is things are changing. Some of us are resistant. I understand that. But Mamdani is the future. And after listening to him and his ideas. I like him and I like his ideas. He believes in an economy that works for everyone-not just the rich. Many of us believe the same thing. Capitalism has taken a wrong turn. We need to make it better. Mamdani is the Democratic candidate for Mayor of New York. We need to accept that and work hard to get him elected.

And I know it is hard to face that times are in fact 'a changing'. So in the words of the song that marked our generation and the changes that happened as we came into our own...'get out of the way.

'Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
The battle outside ragin'
Will soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

'Come mothers and fathers
Throughout the land
And don't criticize
What you can't understand
Your sons and your daughters
Are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly agin'
Please get out of the new one
If you can't lend your hand'.

It is time for the next generation to come into their own and leave their mark on our Republic. I don't think any but those who came of age in 1932 had such a difficult path...the depression, WWII ET AL.

[Ping Tung]

158. Didn't he sign the obligatory Loyalty Oath?

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson

[Scrivener7]

160. He's the Democratic nominee. He wouldn't have been my first choice, but this is ridiculous. Get over it.

.

[purple_haze]

177. Well, that stinks

[Polybius]

184. This one is from even earlier:

Link to tweet