Tepid, at best. The weak resistance to "the big beautiful bill" once again is a missed opportunity to show a unified

[Zipgun]

active opposition to Trump. I am not saying it could have been stopped, the GOP cowards were always going to ben the knee and pass it for Trump. However they could have dragged it out at least a day. or more longer. Slowed it down in the senate where they have more tools to gum up passage to drag it out just a bit longer. Give him a loss even with his "win". What loss? He wanted to sign it on the 4th. That's why the GOP has been scrambling. This self imposed deadline could have been beaten, even if the bill ultimately could not.

But democratic leadership in the person of Chuck Schumer decided to give him this win, yet again. But don't worry, Chuck "MADE" them change the name of the bill. I'm sure he asked some very pointed questions also. Maybe he will send a strongly worded letter as well.

I am not saying individual members haven't fought this bill strongly. But this needed leadership, strategy and coordinated messaging. Instead it seems they wanted to rely on GOP disfunction to possibly derail the passage. And the tactic failed. Again.

It seems when the GOP doesn't want something, it's a fight. A big, hard fight against the democrats have to wage with the GOP. And when the democrats don't want something, it's "pointed questions" and "strongly worded letters" and the GOP's own disfunction might, sometimes, be strong enough to stop it. But the democrats certainly aren't.

THIS is one of the big reasons why the average democrat or independent HATES democratic leadership. They are ineffective, uninspiring and weak. Look at the poles. The Democratic Party needs to have a generational change in leadership ASAP. In the mean time, Trump gets his 4th of July bill signing. Just like he wanted. And we get to eat a giant shit sandwich yet again.

[EdmondDantes_]

1. Can you be specific about what more you think they could have done?

It's vague and without details seems more like a demand of doing something rather than a guide to doing something better.

[Zipgun]

12. Dragged the process out till after the 4th. Preventing this bill from passing was never a possibility as the GOP

are cowards and were always going to give Trump this bill. But we could taken the 4th away from Trump. And they could have then turned around and crowed on TV "Look how dysfunctional they are. They set a deadline and couldn't keep it." Make passing the bill as bitter, painful and long a process as possible. Filibuster, gum up the works, draw out every possible procedure Take away Trump's photo op on the 4th. That's what I wanted them to do. Make Trump have a tantrum on TV because he couldn't get his photo op.

Small win, but the more Trump can be pushed off kilter the better. But Trump has wins now. Sure terrible wins that America will pay for in the future. But Trump doesn't care about the future. He just wants to be able to claim a win. And he will.

I didn't know a filibuster was possible in the House, but Jeffries did a pretty decent job of it. I give him a pass for at least making it harder and longer. But that's what I wanted them to do.

There is going to be NO positive meaningful legislation passed this session. So the democrats job this term is to make them pay for any bills they pass. When Obama was elected Moscow Mitch set a mandate to the GOP senators to make Obama's term a failed presidency. And they tried hard. What is Chuck's mandate for the democrats? Wag your fingers at them then throw your hands up and say "nothing we could do"?

[EdmondDantes_]

18. How? Magic hand waving doesn't answer the specific how

They forced the bill to be ready, they used their hours of debate. Be specific about what you're asking for. Filibuster wasn't an option. What other procedures do you have in mind?

[newdeal2]

2. I'm critical of leadership but this was inevitable

They did their part and voted no. There’s still work to be done afterwards and we can argue about who and what tactics will be most effective, but Republicans and SCOTUS gave Trump all of the power. They get the blame.

[Zipgun]

13. The bill's ultimate passing was inevitable, but the 4th photo op signing was not.

If they had drawn it out. just a couple day's longer then they could have taunted Trump with that small failure. But that would have been enough to provoke Trump into a tantrum. There will be no positive legislation passed this session, but make every bad bill a drawn out bitter fight.

[onenote]

22. Still waiting for your explanation as to how, under the rules governing Senate action

it could have been delayed

Just saying it could've been doesn't make it so.

[Keepthesoulalive]

27. And what good would it do

The American people are responsible for this, they should have voted for democrats. I don’t give a damn if he signed it on Christmas Day there was nothing the democrats could have done. What are you doing to get out the vote for the mid terms? Flipping congress and the senate can put the brakes on his agenda. Stop bitching and get to work. They voted against the bill , that was their only power. Let’s give them the majority.

[karynnj]

3. In reality, the problem may be the Republican elected officials fear Trump more than their constituents

and they value having their positions more than hating taking bad votes. The Democrats DID succeed in convincing people this bill was bad.

That said many have long wanted to shrink what the federal government does for the safety net. Years ago I would have said they were for small federal government. That is blatantly not true given how much they are expanding a federal police force, ICE. That would have unthinkable to small government people from Goldwater to Ryan. What is normal is trying to shrink the safety net. Remember that NO Republican senators and I think only one Republican Congressman voted for the ACA. Most have tried since it passed to kill it. Therefore, for most Republicans the things we hated most are consistent with their core beliefs.

The only sign that they saw any problem with all the cuts is that they and Trump have lied about them and accused Democrats of lying. The other clue is the dates something's happen. Is anyone surprised that the Medicaid work requirement goes into affect January 2027?

[mcar]

4. Yeah, this is all Democrats' fault

[Cha]

19. Of Course.. amazing how no chance

is missed to blame the Dems. Easy fucking target.. because Why not?

Fucking Traitor is to Blame for this Big Fat Ugly Bill.

[Silent Type]

5. Once it was clear it was going to pass, Democrats should have just walked out. The floor speeches were a waste of

time, unfortunately, and likely didn't help our brand one bit. I found those optics rather pitiful.

As to what to do now, time to get to work minimizing damage. For example, in 2017 the Paygo provision that would call for an automatic cut of 4% to Medicare was waived by Congress months after the tax reduction act passed. We should be introducing such legislation and/or working with GOPers who voted for it in 2017 to do so.

We should also go into midterms calling for improvements in Medicaid, etc., rather than just continuing to bash trump (though he deserves it).

[MineralMan]

6. Well, I'm not familiar with your posts, so I'm not sure exactly what you're saying here.

Democratic leadership did not do enough to stop this bill? Is that it? What would have been your solution to that? What would you have recommended for, say, Schumer to do? What might he have done to prevent the bill's passage?

You seem to write coherently enough, so let's hear your specific ideas, rather than just a condemnation of current Democratic leadership. That'd be great.

[Zipgun]

15. I said stopping the bill was not possible, but delaying it was. Why give Trump his 4th photo op? Why let the GOP make

their self imposed deadline? Delay, delay, delay. Trump does that all the time in the courts. Unlike the bill, the deadline to pass the bill WAS a possible win. A small win, sure, but one that could be used as a message. Both to Trump and to those opposed to him. When Booker did his filibuster, he was never gong to succeed. But that wasn't the point or the important thing. He fought, he made it harder and he sent a message. One that was VERY positively received.

The Dems could have done that here also. Make the 4th a bit bitter for Trump. Jeer and taunt him. Make the pain greater for the coward GOP in congress. And send a message with a small win even though the larger fight was always going to be a loss.

When Senator Padilla got pushed out of the press conference and congressional members went to the ICE facility in Newark, leadership was not on board with these kind of actions. They wanted to stay away from an issue Trump is strong on. And leadership was wrong. People responded STRONGLY to democrats taking action and by going after a Trump strength, they won. Small victories, but ones that rallied people.

Chuck voted for the funding extension saying that it might be worse if it didn't get extended. Well guess what, it got worse anyway. A LOT worse. I want Chuck to channel Harry Reid and be a fighter. I want him to steel a page out of Moscow Mitch's play book and fight to make Trump's presidency a failure like Mitch tried to make Obama's. Sure Mitch failed, but everyone knew he tried like hell.

What I don't want out of democratic leadership is "strongly worded letters" "very pointed questions" and "well, it's my turn" BS. And if the current leadership can't lead a fight, then I want them to get out of the way and let others try.

[onenote]

23. Again, you don't seem to have a grasp of how the Senate process works.

But you seem good at dumping on Democrats.

[Zipgun]

30. Should I have applauded Schumer for giving up all our leverage with the extension because he was afraid

they would pass something worse. And then we got something much worse anyways. Should I feel good about them knowing for months that the budget reconciliation was how the GOP was gong to pass this bill and them waiting for it till they started slowing things down? Should I feel good that democrats are giving a principled, civil fight rather than stealing from the GOP playbook and going after anything and everything they can? The GOP in congress are cowards who gave up all their power to a gigantic man baby.


I've watched for years the GOP follow Gingrich's playbook and transform congress into a sewer with the democrats to this day have no real answer to them. I've watched the party remove a DNC chair who's 50 state strategy helped Obama win and replace him with a guy who's crowing achievement as party chair was to change the logo. I can go on.

I'm not dumping on democrats, I'm frustrated. I'm heartbroken.

I've seen the Florida Democratic Party be paralyzed for decades with internal turf wars, self inflicted losses and just bad decisions allow the GOP turn a purple state blood red. And I feel I am watching it play out again on a national level.

I'm OK with a loss if it was a smart fight and a hard fought fight. Read my other responses, Booker lost, Padilla lost, but their actions were uplifting. But that wasn't democratic leadership. Please show me how I am wrong. I would love for you to.

[onenote]

36. And you still haven't given a single solid example of how Democrats could've delayed the Big Ugly Bill.

Or even a not solid example.

[tritsofme]

7. What a dumb thread. More trashing Democrats for things Republicans do.

This is nothing but another excuse to mindlessly bash good Democrats.

[Zipgun]

33. So we should praise "good" but ineffective democrats? Can you please list their important wins? Small wins?

Any wins? From leadership, not individual democrats taking action. I can think of, and have listed several actions that individual democrats have taken that have produced positive results. The actions themselves may not have been wins, but the reactions by voters HAVE been wins.

With democratic leadership having record low approval, it seems something needs to change. Soon, and significantly. If I am wrong, I am open to being shown why. What are they doing that is effective. And by effecting, I mean that as broadly as possible. What are their wins, positive results, or effective strategies? Or even just new or different things they are dong?

If I am mindlessly bashing, are you mindlessly supporting?

I don't love some things about Cory Booker. But there are some things I really like about him. One of those was his filibuster. His pointless, doomed filibuster. My reaction was GOOD! MORE!

I don't know much about Senator Padilla, but I loved his disruption of that press conference. When he futilely tried to confront Noem and was detained I was outraged at his treatment. And I felt like finally someone was fighting. FINALLY!

So please, show me where I am wrong. Honestly I want something I can support, something I, and other voters can get behind. I want the same kind of energy and dirty fighting that the GOP does when they don't have power. Can't think of anything new? Steal something from the GOP bag of dirty tricks. Get what wins you can, even if they are losses. Even if they are pointless symbolic wastes of time. Small wins are still wins.

[Renew Deal]

8. Your post has a significant math problem

How many Democrats voted for the bill?

[Zipgun]

17. You have a significant calendar problem. They could have made it their goal to blow the GOP's self imposed deadline.

I never claimed they could have stopped the bill. But I do absolutely believe they could have make it take a few days longer. How well do you think Trump would have taken having to listen to all the news channels pointing out he didn't get his 4th of July photo op if it had gotten delayed? Small, not very important win, but a win where we are not getting a lot of wins right now. And a win that would have stuck in Trump's craw.

[Renew Deal]

29. A symbolic waste of time

What legal options did they not take that would have achieved the symbolic waste of time you propose?

[Zipgun]

32. Do you think that now this bill has passed that congress is going to pass good legislation?

I don't. I think that the best we can do is waste time. Because the alternative is very likely more bad things. I think they should slow or shut down everything. In the past the GOP did exactly this kind of thing to great affect. And yes, sometimes we should do the same things they do. Especially if it makes the GOP even less effective and pass fewer, even if only by one, terrible bills because they run out of time, not because we can stop them.

A lot of Trump's "wins" are theatric, yet he gets a lot of milage out of them. Booker, Padilla, McIver, and Menendez actions were all symbolic wastes of time. And I applaud them for it. Exactly what actions have democratic leadership taken that have gotten voters to rally behind them, even half as much as the theatrics of Booker, Padilla, McIver and Mendez?

And waste time is exactly what I think they should have done. And should. be doing now. For just about everything going on in the senate and the house. EVERY. SINGLE. THING. THEY. CAN. The GOP cowards are not going to pass good legislation. Waste their time in congress. Make every single bad, hateful bill they put up a slow, painful process so they can get as little as possible through congress.

And the symbolic waste of time I wanted would have had some effect. It would have taken a win from Trump, not the bill, but the 4th of July photo op he so wanted and got. Petty is where he lives. You don't think he would have not reacted to petty? You think it would have been impossible to distract him and get him focused on the slight of not having his "big beautiful bill" photo op? The man baby who spent years obsessing on a comment about his small hands? And yes, I think keeping him off balance as much as possible is important. Not a grand victory, but a death by a thousand cuts kind of thing.

But sure, I may be wrong. Please show me how effective the democratic leadership has been these past 6 months? What big wins have they gotten?

[leftstreet]

9. You make some good points

The recent election found that 6+ million reliably Democratic voters failed to turn out for Harris, so Trump won.

Someone, somewhere in leadership needs to ask WHY?

DURec

[Ocelot II]

10. Yeah, let's blame the Democrats some more.

What, exactly, could they have done as a minority party to stop the bill? What could they have offered GOP legislators or threatened them with that would have been sufficient to overcome the promises and threats of other GOPers, Trump and MAGA? They tried shaming them with eloquent speeches, but shame, which was their last weapon, no longer has any effect on Republicans. Don't criticize the Democrats for taking knives to a gunfight when they had nothing but their knives - their votes, all of them - and guns were completely out of reach. I'd like to hear your suggestions for what they could have done for real that they didn't do. Just how would "leadership, strategy and coordinated messaging" have produced more GOP votes against the bill?

[Buckeyeblue]

11. Not much else they could have done

Although I will say this: it seems like civility in the face of fascism, while dignified, might be misguided.

[dsc]

14. The vote arama had the most amendments ever

there are x number of hours that you get, and if the GOP doesn't use theirs then it becomes x/2. They used all the things they could.

[Takket]

16. the Dems literally did all the stalling/procedural stuff you think they didn't do

geez, jeffries spoke for 9 hours to stall them

They did everything they could.

[Zipgun]

25. The GOP has been telegraphing budget reconciliation for months. Sure this bill could not have been filibustered, but

did the dems go after other legislation to slow down everything? As soon as Trump set a deadline of July 4th that should have been the target. No positive legislation is going to get passed this session, so make everything slow. Filibuster things just to filibuster. swamp the parliamentarian with questions about other bill BEFORE this bill, just to slow her office down. Gum up ALL the works, not just this bill.

That's the kind of thing that the GOP does effectively since Gingrich. Hell the GOP under his leadership is responsible for torpedoing every bill they possibly could, even things they wanted, just to make the democratic controlled congress look bad. And it worked and the GOP got rewarded for it because all voters saw was the democrats being ineffective. Moscow Mitch declared war on Obama's presidency by making it the GOP's goal to do everything they could to make it a failure. And while they were unsuccessful in making it a failure, their voters responded to their actions. That's the kind of fight I want. And so do a lot of other democratic voters.

The democratic leadership are at record lows in the polls. Democratic voters want the party to fight. Not fight fair, not fight reasonably, but fight tooth and nail. No more "it's my turn" democrats, no more "pointed questions" or "strongly worded letters".

[Sogo]

20. We see what you're trying to do here - demoralize Dems.

Who do you work for....Hmmmm?

[Zipgun]

21. No, no you don't. I don't "work" for anyone. But I would like my party to "work" for me. Better yet, fight smarter.

No one has to demoralize Dems, they are at at a record low in favorability. I don't want them to keep using the same old play book. I want them to try new things and to steal plays from the other side. Booker's filibuster lost, but was a win.Voters felt like he was fighting. Padilla's "theatrics" in the DHS news conference was a win even though he didn't get to ask one question. We've become the party of "pointed questions" and "strongly worded letters". We've got to do things differently.

[betsuni]

24. WHY DON'T DEMOCRATS STOP ... OH WAIT I MEAN DRAG IT OUT A LITTLE ... ALL THE BAD THINGS REPUBLICANS DO?

[Zipgun]

26. THEY SHOULD! That's my answer. slow everything down as much as possible. You think this is the last bad thing they

are going to pass? Why wait? There is only one, possibly one, good bill they might pass this session. Other than that, yes, slow everything down you cannot stop. Gingrich did exactly this kind of thing, and it worked. Moscow Mitch made it his goal to make Obama's presidency a failure. Yes, I want exactly this kind of energy and fight.

[betsuni]

28. Democrats don't control the House, though. Republicans did for majority of Clinton and Obama admin.

Could you please give examples of Republicans slowing things down when they were in the minority?

[Renew Deal]

31. Or even a specific action that was legal that they could have taken this time?

That would have mattered? Jeffries killed time for 8 hours. Anything else?

[Zipgun]

35. Gingrich lead the GOP to torpedo as many bills as possible to frustrate voters and paint the democratically controlled

congress as "do nothing" and ineffectual. And it worked as the GOP took over control of congress the next election cycle. The GOP dragged out the bill making process of the ACA by faithless negotiating changes that a) got things cut from the bill, b) scaled back items and c) put implementation of items off till after the next election cycle. They then voted against it anyway after getting as much changed or lessened as they could even though they never were going to vote for it anyway. Those changes made it much harder, impossible really, for democrats to campaign on passage of the ACA and the GOP took over congress the next election cycle. Mitch McConnell lead the GOP in the minority to block and slow down as many judicial nominations as possible when ever a democrat was in office of the president. When in the majority they were even worse.

There, three excellent examples. If we looked we could probably find more pretty easily.

[betsuni]

37. What bills did Gingrich lead the GOP to torpedo? Name some. How was he the leader before he was Speaker?

No, the GOP got nothing cut, or scaled back or anything in the ACA. They said they wouldn't vote for it no matter what, had no influence on what was in the bill. How did McConnell block and slow down judicial nominations in the minority?

No, not true. Three made-up examples.

[qazplm135]

34. I'm not going to pretend

Schumer has done a great job overall, but this needs for nebulous performative acts by our side is getting old.

1. There was no magical procedure to make this slower.

2. The public is not going to get spurred because Trump signs it on the 5th.

3. The people collectively decided to give Dems absolutely zero point zero repeating power to stop the Republicans from doing anything fiscal. Complaining after that Dems should do something that isn't completely for show and ineffective is pretty silly.

4. This is what the people voted for. Now, they will get the fruits of that. Either they won't like and they will turn back to us to clean up the mess. Again. Or they will like and we will be in trouble. I happen to think it's almost assuredly going to be the former. Republicans haven't governed well since Eisenhower and I don't think this group is the one that is going to break that trend.

[Morbius]

38. I think it's fine that Trump signed his big ugly bill on the 4th.

The main objective is to tell the American people just what's in the bill. That their parents are likely to either starve or suffer from untreated health problems because of cuts to Social Security and Medicare. That their children will be in classes with kids who are hungry, because of cuts to food programs. That any outstanding student loans they have are about to require larger payments every month. That it creates a slush fund for Trump's American Gestapo in ICE. That rural schools are about to suffer because of relocation of funds to student vouchers. And so on.

Let him take credit. The important thing is to make it clear what he's taking credit for. If you can't win the battle over the legislation - and there was no way the Democrats could win it - win the public debate about the legislation. That's what the GOP did to the Affordable Care Act, which is why the Democrats got their clocks cleaned in 2010.