Maga friend debates ICE as Secret Police

[2na fisherman]

We've been friends since high school. He's well educated and has a college degree. And he has travelled the world in various jobs. He married an Irish woman. And I mentioned that she could be "denaturalized." I knew he voted for Trump but still wish to remain friends with him because I don't like to be all Us vs Them. I want to understand how he arrived at his views which now seem the opposite of mine. I recently sent him the Rick Wilson (Lincoln Project) video on ICE as Trump's new Secret Police. I was worried for him because he is very well armed and the ICE no-knock raids got me thinking he could be killed in a mistaken raid on his home as soon as he pointed his weapons at them. He failed to see my point and said no one has been killed by such raids. He said it's "paranoid" to fear LEO's in this way. And he also said the following:
"We know that the leftist-fueled Democratic party has shown a propensity for violence especially over the last ten years. For example attempting to assinate [SIC] the President and a Supreme Court Justice. They have also encouraged unrest and violence against Police and people that do not agree with them. Defund the Police, releasing criminals from prisons, releasing violent illegal aliens back into the community..." (Interesting typo, he's already very assinated [SIC] ).
I told him it's odd how we see such events so differently now years after our high school days. But I now think it serves no purpose to debate such things. He mentioned Trump Derangement Syndrome, as if some irrational hatred of Trump dismisses all policy arguments against him. He ignored my point that people, even US citizens, are being denied due process and sent to offshore detention centers by unidentified masked purported agents of the government. I now believe it must take some very dangerous moments in history for Maga folks to realize for themselves that they have been betrayed and must suffer great personal harms by what they voted for. And everyone will suffer along with them.

[Firestorm49]

1. "Democrats releasing criminals from prison". I nearly spit out my oatmeal.

[travelingthrulife]

5. This is their alternate reality. Everything is backwards and upside down.

They do not accept reality. I have MAGA family. All pose as good christians, maybe even the best christians.

[haele]

16. I have a couple MAGA co-workers...

Including a Latino one who could "pass", whose father "did the hard work and became a US citizen from Mexico legally" (legally then, not legally now). They're "nice enough" if they know you. But f*** you if they don't.
They all believe millions of immigrants are coming over on false asylum claims, or just crossing the border and then just stopping off at the nearest Democratic Party or Social Services office and getting free Social Security, Medicaid Welfare, Snap, free Education, and Section 8 housing vouchers.
All While supposedly millions of US born elderly and low wage workers are being denied housing, welfare, food and medical help, and living on the streets because - all those criminal immigrants are straining our "security net" system - which, of course, we wouldn't need if everyone just took personal responsibility and started working their ass off like we did, with none of this mental health BS the liberals like to coddle and excuse criminals with.
Liberals are the problem to them. If they can just ignore other people's drama and still live comfortably, why should they care what happens. But they're the first to cry when they lose their jobs and suddenly there's no careers left. Or when they have to downsize because wealthy speculators have bought out all the housing stock and they can't afford the things they want. Or they have to pay more taxes for infrastructure they use but have been ignoring paying for.
They expect their pay raises, but it's Communist to raise minimum wage for useless store clerks or unskilled maintenance people to give them a living wage. And they have no issues with prison labor doing grunt work, because weak minded people and criminals shouldn't get passes.
MAGA would be happily oblivious if 60% of the country is slave labor living in camps, because they expect everyone to follow the same "rules" they claim they do - and cheat at. MAGA believes that money grants privilege and respect, and if you don't have money, you didn't do something right and deserve the punishment you get

[lapfog_1]

2. college degrees

do not mean that much anymore.

[Bread and Circuses]

3. May I offer unsolicited advice

Hi, after reading his conspiracy filled reply to you …. Just Let It Be Over.

I know that you are life long friends, but he’s left the human race and I don’t want you to be subjected to his rants and insults. We all deserve to have kind people in our lives.

Best to you.

[Haggard Celine]

4. My hatred for Trump is totally rational.

Maybe some people out there have an irrational hatred for him, but I haven't met any.

[2na fisherman]

7. Rational Hatred

Indeed, it's also a visceral hatred for me every time I see his scowling face with those lizard eyes. Each day I check the news to see if he is dead yet. I hope I live long enough to see that happen and the aftermath of the power vacuum in DC. May no one fill his shoes.
And yes, it really does seem that the Eschaton is coming, probably by a Trump blunder or "nuking a hurricane."
The friendship is in the ghost stage now and he lives in another state so not much contact anymore.
Thanks to all who replied. I used to be a lurker here but am a recent poster because DU is a valuable source of information and good answers to questions.

[Haggard Celine]

8. Glad you're no longer a lurker.

I agree about DU. It's a valuable source of information!

[Heidi]

6. Why do you want to maintain a friendship with this guy?

He’s in an ARMED CULT and you’ve not yet been able to help him see reason. He has your contact info and can contact you if and when he wants help getting out of the cult. You can love a friend or family member *without* their participation—and in many cases a healthy boundary makes it easier to love them.

ETA: I wish you every success in navigating such a complicated relationship and hope you’ll prioritize *your* health in all dimensions and not allow it to be jeopardized by your friend’s toxic world view.

[Arazi]

12. It's definitely NOT healthy for me to keep MAGAts in my life

I believe this is an individual choice depending on how the MAGAts behave in the relationship.

My MAGAts are rude and spoiling for a fight any chance they can get if we’re together. They delight in being provocative and rude, especially with trans family members - misgendering and denigrating them. I don’t need that in my life and I especially refuse to host their hatred and bigotry.

There’s nothing healthy about that relationship for me and statements saying anyone should be “loving, embracing or trying to understand” their point of view is bullshit.

Welcome to DU. I doubt you’ll be here long though …

[JoseBalow]

14. Nazi supporters are Nazis

Enjoy your stay

[Heidi]

15. Why do you subject yourself to that toxicity, though?

If it were healthy for you, why would you be posting about it on DU? I wish you nothing but success. Many DUers (myself included) are lovingly navigating the same circumstances without any meaningful results. I’d personally love to hear about any good that has resulted from your effort.

[hwmnbn]

17. Hey, welcome to DU...

However, their "points of view" is causing pain and suffering on a large scale.

You obviously understand that.

Do they understand that?

[haele]

18. It's healthy until you find yourself nodding with them

When they talk about setting fire to the garage of that "we think they're gay" couple that just moved in down the street.
Or laugh with them when they talk about how they swarmed that Mexican guy's hot dog and roast corn street cart at the Lowes parking lot and beat the criminal illegal to a pulp before calling ICE - and Joe there took the cart and is going to make a sweet BBQ for Church out of it.
Because that's what MAGA do. It's not just cynical punch-down comedy and "real" non-PC talk.

MAGA is about spitting on or turning your back on people who aren't exactly the way you think they should be.

MAGA is about understanding only emotional satisfaction, screw real world consequences.

MAGA is about "I got mine, and f*** you if you even think to ask me if I can help you get yours."

MAGA is about living in a bubble, pretending you got everything you have on your own, and that nothing outside your bubble should affect you if you don't want it to.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

20. Welcome to DU

[JCMach1]

10. No friendship to be had there.

[BannonsLiver]

11. It's never too late to cut ties.

[2MuchNoise]

13. maga friend is an oxymoron

[yardwork]

19. He sounds like an assinate (sic)

[Vinca]

22. Personally, I wish we'd get to the part where Trump tells them to drink the poison Kool-Aid.

I'm sick of it. We keep getting lectured about how we need to listen to them, but they've been programmed to hate us even when they need our policies to survive.

[progressoid]

23. They love to use the "Trump Derangement Syndrome" trope.

It's a convenient attempt at an insult to gloss over their own cult like actions.