Haaretz - Leading Israeli Author David Grossman Calls Gaza War a 'Genocide

[womanofthehills]

HAARETZ

'With Immense Pain and a Broken Heart. “ - Leading Israeli Author David Grossman Calls Gaza War a 'Genocide'
World-renowned Israeli writer David Grossman said coming to the realization that Israel is committing genocide was extremely painful, but he now has a moral obligation to speak up: 'I feel an inner urgency to do the right thing, and now is the time to do it'

ROME -“

David Grossman, one of Israel's most prominent authors, told Italian daily La Repubblica he has decided to start using the word "genocide" to describe the situation in Gaza.”

"For years, I refused to use the word 'genocide.' But now I can't hold back from using it, after what I've read in the newspapers, after the images I've seen and after talking to people who have been there", he said in the interview published in the paper's print edition on Friday.“

[David__77]

1. I think he is representative of a political strain that has little to do with contemporary Israel.

The reality is fascist-like and deeply racist.

[mike_c]

2. what you're describing is apartheid

And I have come to believe it's been slow motion genocide since 1948. Israelis have long known that the only solution to the Palestinian refugee problem acceptable to Israel was making them go away. Now the rest of the world knows it, too.

[murielm99]

3. Twenty percent of the population of Israel

is Palestinian.
They are well integrated into the society.

[iemanja]

4. Correct me if I'm wrong

But I've read that they aren't let into bomb shelters. Is that true?

ETA: I should have googled it first. Apparently is it happening with greater frequency but may not be ubiquitous.

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20250624-arab-israelis-unequal-access-bomb-shelters-iran-missile-attacks

[AloeVera]

27. Unequal access to shelters is yet another form of discrimination Palestinian Citizens of Israel face.

Most Palestinian Citizens of Israel (those called "Arabs" by Israelis) live in three distinct areas of Israel, in towns and villages that are segregated from their Jewish fellow citizens. Ironically mirroring the conditions of their brethren in the West Bank.

The incident you linked to seems to have occurred in a "mixed" neighbourhood. But remember, that is not the norm.

Further, the real issue when it comes to shelters is that the State of Israel has not seen fit to provide Palestinian citizens with nearly the same level of shelters that it has provided to Jewish Israelis.

The Israel Democracy Institute (IDI), an independent research center published a report in the wake of the Tamra attack, describing how “Arab communities remain unaddressed” almost two years since the outbreak of war. The report points to the “significant gaps in protection” between Arab and Jewish communities.

Civil defense capabilities are built into the infrastructure of Israel. Israeli law requires all homes, residential buildings, and industrial building built since the early 1990s to have bomb shelters. These shelters prove crucial to protect Israelis when warning sirens go off – providing the public with safe and fortified locations to hide from incoming rockets.

However, many Palestinian towns in the country’s north “lack public shelters, protected areas, and shelter facilities,” according to a statement from the Association for Civil Rights in Israel.

“The urgency in providing such a response gains secondary validity in light of the fact that the main disparity in the field of defense in the northern district is within Arab towns,” the statement continued.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/06/16/middleeast/israel-iran-tamra-shelters-latam-hnk-intl

I just love the talking point "Palestinians in Israel have the same rights as Jewish Israelis" - don't you??

[brush]

5. Please. Gaza is an entirely different story. Time to stop turning a blind eye to it.

Israel needs to kick Netanyahu's corrupt behind to the curb and try him in court for it, stop the bomb strikes and the IDF from shooting starving Palestinians who gather for food and water...literal food blinds like hunters build to kill game. Negotiate with equally bloody-haned Hamas to get the hostages freed, then eliminate every last one of them, THEN END THE DAMN WAR.

[murielm99]

6. You present a balanced point of view.

Thank you for stating your position without flaming or alerting me.

[brush]

7. Thank you. I'm neutral except for Hamas and Netanyahu. I want them out of the picture never...

return to power. eliminated really, like I said in my post.

[questionseverything]

26. Palestinians are restricted to using certain roads and highways

Also there are “checkpoints “ for them…

In other words, they don’t have full rights or even freedom of movement

Also before the last prisoner release, tens of thousands of Palestinians were imprisoned without convictions or even charges

So I doubt Palestinians feel the same way about their integration as you do

[murielm99]

34. There are Palestinians who live in the country full time

and have full citizenship.

[questionseverything]

35. Unless they need a bomb shelter or to use public infrastructure

[murielm99]

36. Give it a rest.

I have told what I know about it, and I don't need your lack of respect. We disagree. That is all.

[questionseverything]

37. And I am saying that you are incorrect in your "telling "

And I gave you specific examples, how is that disrespectful?

[murielm99]

41. Bye.

[malaise]

9. Jimmy Carter nailed it

ages ago

[harumph]

30. I think the ethos of most of us here is likewise not reflected in America.

sadly.

[Exp]

8. Waaaaay too late buddy. Hindsight is going to be brutal for Israel. It will take generations to fade the stain of

the genocide committed by Israelis.

[SunSeeker]

10. Weird how the stain of the horrors done by Hamas didn't stick to Palestinians.

But Bibi sticks to Israelis. For generations. Got it.

[Exp]

11. There is no comparison. This isn't just some tit for tat.

[SunSeeker]

12. Right. Starting a war by invading, killing and raping hundreds of teens at a music festival is no comparison.

And, Hamas could end the war at any moment, along with the starvation, by simply surrendering and returning the hostages.

Or Hamas could stop firing at the IDF from amongst Palestinian civilians.

But none of that has happened. So the war goes on, with all the horror that war is.

So yeah, no comparison there. Tit nor tat.

[EdmondDantes_]

14. Hamas lacks only the ability to do the slower atrocities

I'm not going to compare the October 7th attacks and what Israel is doing to rate which is worse, because both are atrocities. Of course Hamas has to commit their atrocities faster because the are smaller, lack the infrastructure etc, but they are no less committed to the destruction of Israel than some of the more right wing parties in Israel are committed to taking all of Gaza. Both are equally worthy of condemnation.

[Exp]

15. Palesitians were occupied. No real freedom of movement. Israeli settlers were steeling their land, bulldozing their

orchards and homes. You DO KNOW that, right?

So is it any surprise that Hamas rec'd Palestinians' support?
Not at all.

Is there any surprise of fighting back against the occupation?
Not at all.

If Trump did the same to Canada, they would also turn to terrorism because they don't have the military industry that the U.S. has.
Would you then condemn Canada???

In 10 years we will all view Israel's atrocities for what they are.

[SunSeeker]

17. Butchering teens at a music festival is not "fighting back against the occupation."

Not at all.

[Exp]

20. Sad for sure, but to Hamas supporters it was their way fighting back against the occupation, the murdering, the

theft of land and wealth.

Canadians might do the same if Trump occupied Canada in the same murderous way.

[SunSeeker]

25. "Sad"? Butchering babies is an atrocity. Canadians would never kill teens at a music concert.

That is some sick Hamas shit you are justifying. Holy cow.

A lot of countries have lost land in wars. They never did the sick shit Hamas did.

Russia stole Ukraine's land and wealth, but Ukraine never stabbed Russian babies in their cribs. Nor did they parade a raped Russian teen's body through their streets, to cheering throngs.

There is absolutely no justification for Hamas' murderous depravity. I can't believe you said that.

[AloeVera]

29. If I were to post pictures of actual dead babies - around 1,000 of them - would you think that was atrocity propaganda?

Pictures of shredded, dismembered and burned - with names now, if not faces. Along with 17,000 other children.

At what point does October 7th ever get to be "even"?

As long as atrocity propaganda is pushed, probably never. Maybe when the last Palestinian is dead.

That to me is very alarming. As is the clear reality that there is no understanding among most of Israel's staunch supporters, that indeed October 7th did not happen in a vacuum. Hamas didn't just wake up one day and decide to murder as many Israelis as it could.

It is not "justification" to point this out. It is a plea for even-handed, truth-based, acknowledgement of historical reality and the should-be-obvious equality of Palestinians as human beings with equal rights - rights that have been stolen and disregarded, ignored for decades.

The oppressed and genocided natives, given the chance, have throughout history committed atrocities against those who are killing and oppressing them. This is a historical fact. It is also a rather messy fact and consequence of being human - as a species, we seem to need revenge as pay-back for what we have suffered. Just look at what Israel has done to Gaza - crimes and atrocities on an industrial scale.

Should there be a Palestinian exemption to that understanding, to paint them as something less than human? All the while asking for understanding of Israel's actions?

The lesson here should be to stop oppressing and killing people based on who they are, people whose lands you want, because chances are they will rise up against you and it will be horrible.

[harumph]

32. It is plain to many that Oct 7 is merely a pretext to take more land.

It's really no more complicated than that. All the talk since Camp David was just a stalling tactic for a slow motion
takeover. This is exactly what the political extremists in Israel wanted. All along - for years. Two state solution folks have been played for chumps.
I submit that Bibbi is preoccupied with the possibility of a Greater Israel and the political clout he will garner thereafter than to reflect on
the lives lost Oct 7. Light some more performative candles!

[AloeVera]

39. Agree 100%!! The entire West has been played for chumps for decades.

And not without complicity, either. Many knew exactly where this was heading but acted the part of "honest broker" or honest observer well.

I for one also knew when that first 2,000 lb bomb was dropped on civilians what the end game really was. As I suspect many who parroted Israel's justifications and excuses knew also.

Disgusted by it all. My heart breaks for the people in Gaza and the rest of the OPT.

[SunSeeker]

43. Your heart didn't break for the Jewish teens raped and killed on October 7? nt

[SunSeeker]

44. You think those videos of Hamas parading a dead girl through Gaza streets is "atrocity propaganda"?

Are you saying that didn't happen?

[Exp]

31. There's a reason that respected world leaders are defining Israel's actions as GENOCIDE. Is genocide an atrocity or

just sad?

There's a big difference between terrorism and genocide.

[SunSeeker]

45. The Hamas "River to the Sea" chant is calling for genocide of Israelis. nt

[Exp]

46. And Israel has their own 'River To The Sea' as well. But WHO IS ACTUALLY committing GENOCIDE?

A) Israel

[SunSeeker]

47. Wrong. Israel is not calling for nor committing genocide, unlike Hamas.

Hamas exists to destroy Israel, it does not give a shit about its own people. They think their people getting "martyred" is glorious. Hamas can stop the suffering of its people at any time by simply surrendering.

[EdmondDantes_]

49. So Hamas gets the benefit of not being able to carry out their dreams of no more Israel?

That's a strange moral stance to take. Their rhetoric is one of genocide and their actions show they would if they could. I can't give them any benefit for not being capable of doing what they want.

[Exp]

50. Then you agree that Israel committed genocide. Voila!

[EdmondDantes_]

48. If Canada launched an attack on a music festival and raped/killed kids, yes

Nothing Israel has done merits October 7th. Just like nothing Hamas has done merits what Israel is doing.

John Lewis and Martin Luther King Jr didn't say kill white people because white people attacked them.

I'm not sure why anyone thinks you can justify what either side is doing.

[David__77]

13. A people is being killed by Americans bombs, while the Israel is protected by the US diplomatically.

There’s “stains,” then there’s death and starvation.

[SunSeeker]

16. It's called war, David_77. Hamas could surrender and end the killing and starvation. nt

[David__77]

18. Nazis waged war to oppress. Vietnamese waged war for independence. Not all war is worth defending.

[SunSeeker]

22. Vietnam didn't invade anybody. Hamas invaded Israel and butchered babies.

European Jews didn't invade anyone; Nazis gassed them whether they surrendered or not. That's genocide. Hamas, and those around them, continue to get killed because Hamas won't surrender. That is war.

[David__77]

23. I am thankful that most Democratic senators voted against weapons for Israel.

Israel is not waging a just war. I get that you disagree.

[SunSeeker]

28. It's a just war as long as Hamas refuses to surrender.

We kept bombing the shit out Germany and nuked Japan, with no food for their civilians, until there was an unconditional surrender.

[AloeVera]

33. That was as wrong then as it is now.

As a reaction to WWII barbarism and atrocities, we now have the UN and Laws of War, Humanitarian laws.

If you rely on WWII atrocities to make your case, you have already lost the argument.

I wonder if you would feel the same if it were the civilians in the US or in Israel who suffered as the people in Gaza are suffering. For example, if the Vietnamese or the Iraqis were somehow able to attack those two countries in EXACTLY THE SAME MANNER? Then, after murdering a good many of the civilians, kicked the rest out of their own country and moved in their own people.

I have the feeling EVERYONE here would be screaming bloody murder. Justly so. Revenge on civilians is wrong. Stealing land and resources is wrong. Violating international laws is wrong. Justification for these things is non-existent.

[SunSeeker]

42. Hirohito called upon his country's forces to surrender after the bombing. Hamas should do the same.

Hamas' refusal to surrender and disarm, even after the Arab world called on them to do so, makes them responsible for the ongoing war. It would end tomorrow if they just surrendered.

Arab states call on Hamas to disarm and relinquish power in unprecedented move | CNN https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/30/middleeast/arab-league-hamas-gaza-israel-intl

[AloeVera]

38. Some interesting historical questions...as you seem focused on history.

Whose lands of 1948 and for at least a millennium prior was the festival and the kibbutzim on?

Where did most of the refugees in Gaza come from? Where are their native lands?

How big was Gaza before 1948 compared to today? What happened to the rest of it?

What is Greater Israel and how is it related to what's being done to Gaza?

Also:
"European Jews didn't invade anyone"?

(The native Palestinians of 1917-1948 would disagree with you on that.)

"Know your history" is a good admonition indeed. People should take it to heart.

Last question in farewell...do you think that having been "invaded" as you call it is justification for committing a genocide? Because I have to tell you, I have concluded that anyone STILL using that pretext to continue the slaughter and starvation that is increasingly seen as genocide and that your side STILL calls a "war" is rationalizing something for which there is no rationalization. And I've made my conclusions about that too.

[SunSeeker]

40. What country was invaded by the European Jews Hitler put in ovens? nt

[Exp]

21. The 'killing' began long, long ago before Hamas existed. Know your history, please.

[SunSeeker]

24. Hamas started this war by invading Israel. Know your history indeed.

Last edited Sun Aug 3, 2025, 02:11 PM - Edit history (1)

In May of 2021, after over two weeks of hostilities, Hamas and Israel agree to a ceasefire brokered by Egypt, Qatar, and the U.N. Months later, Israel began issuing thousands of entry permits to allow Gazans to work in Israel. Hamas violated that ceasefire agreement on October 7, 2023, when Hamas and several other Palestinian militant groups launched coordinated armed incursions from the Gaza Strip into the Gaza envelope of southern Israel, the first large-scale invasion of Israeli territory since the 1948 Arab–Israeli War.

And Hamas could end this war at any time by simply surrendering and returning the hostages.

[Ping Tung]

19. Are the American bombs used to kill civilians gifts or bought retail?

Will the killers receive bonuses for their war crimes?

[AloeVera]

51. The savagery from the beginning was a clue and not a subtle one either. It took willful blindness to not see it.

I don't understand why it took so long for some people to see what was clear from the start - to many, many people. These people were the protesters.

Should have listened to them.

When you commit so much barbaric savagery on a people, it is not likely that you are going to want to leave ANY of them within striking distance of you, on your own border! The urge for revenge in humans is very strong. Those children witnessing their parents and family blown up in front of them have a life-long mission, at least some of them.

"I want my father back, you son of a bitch!"
- Inigo Montoya, The Princess Bride

Israel is surely aware of the "Inigo Montoya problem". The fact that it went "all in" on the slaughter and barbarism, is a clue it did not intend to leave any of its victims in Gaza.