It genuinely looks like a nuclear weapon hit it.

[Celerity]

Destruction in Gaza seen from a Jordanian Air Force plane during an aid drop on Thursday. Credit...Diego Ibarra Sanchez for The New York Times

[Renew Deal]

1. How many undamaged structures exist in Gaza?

[lark]

2. If this isn't genocide and ethnic cleansing, I'd like to know what the definition is.

Sure looks exactly like what it is - destruction of a people so the coastal land can be used by the ultra rich and bibi gets to survive.

[Hornedfrog2000]

7. It is beyond that

They killed every living thing there.

[lastlib]

32. (I'm not quite as old as you, but.....

...in my lifetime, we've had Pol Pot and Mao Zedong--both far worse by numbers. Perhaps equivalent in brutality, but that's above my pay grade. And the evil is inherently the same.)

[lark]

41. Yes, I am old and my memory isn't as good as it used to be so I have no real idea about actual deaths caused.

I think those were the same, only coming from the left rather than the right. All are horrendous!

[thucythucy]

60. There were also deaths on a larger scale in Biafra

during the Nigerian civil war in the 1960s. And several million dead in the Democratic Republic of the Congo in a series of wars that continue to this day.

Then too, there was the ethnic cleansing of Bosnia-Herzegovina in the 1990s, the rape camps, and the massacres at Vukovar and Srebrenica.

And to say what's happening in Gaza today, as awful as it is, is "worse than the Nazis" is so out of scale I'm not sure if I should take it seriously,

Just to recap, as if this is needed: the Nazis, through their genocides of Jews, Romani, people with disabilities and LGBTQ+. along with their wars of aggression against Poland, Denmark, Norway, France, Luxembourg, Belgium, Yugoslavia, Greece, and the Soviet Union--and their bombing campaigns against Great Britain and Malta--were responsible for the deaths of something like twenty million people, if not more. Bear in mind too that these wars of aggression were entirely unprovoked--Germany was never at risk of being attacked by any of the nations it attacked, occupied, and plundered. And that even when their war was obviously lost, the leading Nazis had no problem sacrificing hundreds of thousands of their own people in order to stay in power for a few extra months, all the while doing everything they could to destroy what little was left undamaged in central Europe, and to slaughter anyone in the concentration or slave labor camps who had thus far managed to survive.

I should add that besides Aushwitz and the other death camps, where millions were murdered, they carried out massacres of civilians all across Europe. In Belorus they used flame throwers to incinerate random villagers they forced into barns or churches.

I don't mind the occasional hyperbole, but the Nazis stand out as among the most, if not the most, depraved people on earth, certainly within living memory. It's hard for me to imagine anything "worse than the Nazis."

[soldierant]

106. This is a situation of authoritarianism as opposed to democracy

rather than one of left and right. You don't have to be on the right to be authoritarian. Certainly it's not unusual to conflate left and democracy or right with authoritarian - it's natural to feel that they go together more comfortably. You can see from the graph how many more figures are associated with upper right and lower left than with the other two quadrants. But no quadrant is empty.



I could wish it was easier to read - but bigger is blurrier. Sigh.

[LiberalArkie]

28. Looks like the preparation for the Trump-Netanyahu villas and condos on the Med that was talked about before

the October 6 event.

[3Hotdogs]

87. Like I posted a few times over the months, the definition of genocide depends on who is doing

Last edited Tue Aug 5, 2025, 05:43 PM - Edit history (1)

the geociding.

1940 - Warsaw ghetto. Genocide.

Israel's explanation of October, 2023 - Self protection

However, in both cases, same practice. Shoot and starve the people. Except in Warsaw, I don't know if bombs were dropped.

[allegorical oracle]

109. It's a lot less expensive to just explode all standing structures and truck surviving

Palestinians off to some "beautiful" tent city in the desert. Can see Donnie and Bibi unfurling the architectural rendering onto a table -- ready to create a new Mediterranean Riviera.

Beginning to doubt that Bibi ever will stand trial, especially now that the prosecuting AG was recently fired.

[womanofthehills]

131. "Death sentence': Asbestos released by Israel's bombs will kill for decades

According to United Nations estimates, some 800,000 tonnes of the bombed-out debris across Gaza may be contaminated with asbestos.

This is a “death sentence” for Palestinians trapped in Gaza, leading asbestos expert Roger Willey told Al Jazeera.

‘A tragedy that will unfold in the years ahead’
The asbestos exposure of people caught in the aftermath of each of Israel’s bombing raids can be compared to that around the World Trade Center when it collapsed in New York City on September 11, 2001, Willey said.

Link to tweet

?s=46&t=YZgyyp4w_z7vW3neKxa6cQ

Plus other toxins -

Grok

“The bombing of Gaza has caused significant environmental pollution, with potential long-term impacts on cancer rates due to exposure to hazardous substances. While precise predictions for cancer rate increases are not available due to limited data and ongoing conflict, several factors contribute to heightened risks:

1. Asbestos Exposure: The destruction of buildings has released an estimated 800,000 tonnes of asbestos-contaminated debris across Gaza. Asbestos is highly carcinogenic, and inhalation of its fibers can lead to lung cancer and mesothelioma. Experts warn that this exposure could result in cancer cases emerging over decades, similar to post-9/11 health outcomes in New York, where over 4,000 deaths have been linked to asbestos-related illnesses.

2. Heavy Metals and Toxic Chemicals: Bombs and munitions have introduced heavy metals (e.g., uranium, lead, arsenic, cadmium) and explosive compounds (e.g., TNT, RDX) into the soil, water, and air. These pollutants are linked to increased risks of various cancers, including liver, lung, and blood-related cancers. Perchlorate, used in explosives, disrupts thyroid function and can contribute to developmental issues and cancer risk.

3. Air and Water Pollution: The war has generated 50 million tonnes of debris, much of it containing hazardous materials like asbestos, heavy metals, and medical waste. Air quality has deteriorated due to dust, smoke, and burning waste, with particulate matter linked to respiratory illnesses and lung cancer. Untreated sewage and contaminated groundwater further expose residents to carcinogenic substances.”
“

[uponit7771]

110. Text book domicide should be while people are contained like this should be against international law

[Prairie Gates]

3. The picture is fake! Hamas did it! They deserved it! Taking pictures during food drops is illegal!

The pilot is an antisemite!

[AloeVera]

5. And if you don't stop taking pictures we'll turn the plane around!

Last edited Tue Aug 5, 2025, 09:08 AM - Edit history (1)

This actually happened.

Because it's more important to hide their crimes than feed starving people.

Edited to add link:

https://news.sky.com/story/mile-after-mile-of-grey-rubble-the-view-from-a-plane-dropping-aid-to-gaza-13403242

We were told the Israeli side had warned that any shots of Gaza filmed from the air could result in these aid flights being cancelled.

[Bettie]

24. The people starving is the goal

then they will sit back and say "Our hands are clean, we didn't kill them, they just died!"

[AloeVera]

35. I think it's less absurd than that. But plainly immoral.

Israel is setting up plausible deniability.

Look, we set up GHF!! (in reality a fig leaf for the starvation)

We allowed air drops!! (in reality a drop in the bucket, dangerous, and doesn't get to the neediest. Also totally unnecessary IF ONLY Israel would follow the UN's pleadings about proper aid corridors, scaling up the amount of trucks let in, opening crossings etc etc).

There is no limit to the amount of aid! (An Orwellian mantra used for at least a year by COGAT. What they mean is no limit to what the UN and nations provide, but good luck getting it in and distributing it ha ha. We've set up the most byzantine and illogical approval process to slow and obstruct, and made up so many rules about what is allowed in, we'll bog you D
down and reject most of your requests, count half-full trucks as full etc - until people start starving. Then we'll boast about how many trucks we've let in that day (which nobody can verify) and how good we are.

See, we did EVERYTHING we could. Still, somehow, people just died.

Oh. Now I get your point. Lol!

[Bettie]

45. Yep.

I just took the shortcut.

[AloeVera]

47. I'm a bit slower I guess!

Decided to leave it there anyway, after all that typing!!

[Bettie]

49. Knowing how we got there is

important.

[lapucelle]

52. So there was no "starvation plan" in place in October 2023?

There are folks absurdly claiming on social media that the war is actually a long con to implement a "starvation plan" already in place in October 2023.

[womanofthehills]

130. Actually- Netanyahu just said that -

Those 13,000 2 thousand lb bombs sent to Israel by US had nothing to do with it.

[gab13by13]

4. Maybe the far left progressives who voted for Trump

will get to stay at Trump Tower Gaza when the ethnic cleansing is finished?

[Eliot Rosewater]

29. If they survive Covid and the flu and other pandemics that are coming

That Kennedy is going to kill millions of us during.

[progressoid]

64. No.

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/behind-trumps-2024-victory-a-more-racially-and-ethnically-diverse-voter-coalition/

[jfz9580m]

108. Wasn't it guys like that creepy Hamtramck Mayor

Who voted for Trump though?
That guy didn’t strike me as any kind of progressive..he struck me as a homophobic male supremacy type. I mean maybe he voted democratic once or so opportunistically. But he seemed like a proper Trumper and he was the only high profile Muslim I saw back Trump.

Immigration is always a complicated issue to use as a yardstick for being left. As societies become more demographically diverse it becomes easier to sort out opportunistic or orherwise single issue voters from people with more broadly left/liberal sympathies on all issues.

Progressive Muslims (especially with ties to Palestine) struck me as (understandably) conflicted and hurt rather than Trump supporting. And it can’t be easy to think straight with this war decimating that region.

And left/liberal Jewish people are getting PTSD because of this war. Actual anti-semites must be pleased at this war-profiteer driven divide and rule strategy’s success. It’s just going to be painful to see it go down.

Neutral parties who are bullish on this war or on justifying its further continuation are honestly unlikely to be friends of the Jewish community. Not a topic I usually pile on to.

[dalton99a]

6. Courtesy of U.S. taxpayers

[twodogsbarking]

9. We are so good at it. Meanwhile millions go hungry, there and here.

[Oopsie Daisy]

8. What did it look like before?

[Hieronymus Phact]

11. Shhhhhh

don't ask questions like that.

[Celerity]

20. It was answered. Also, unlike the (utterly disproportionate to the point that it's war crimes) death, destruction, ethnic

cleansing, and wilful starvation apologists out there across the US and Israel (and elsewhere TBH, but those 2 places are the epicentre), I have no need to resort to sophistry, water muddying, false weaponisation/incorrect defining of the term antisemitic (all to attempt to stifle debate and intimidate anyone pushing back), and other sorts of hasbara games.

[Celerity]

17. A shedload less devastated. Here are more images of Gaza destruction taken from a Jordanian aid flight:

Aerial footage filmed by ITV News shows the scale of Gaza's destruction

ITV News International Editor Emma Murphy has filmed from on board a Jordanian flight dropping aid into Gaza.

https://www.itv.com/news/2025-08-04/aerial-footage-filmed-by-itv-news-shows-scale-of-gazas-destruction

The first aerials of Gaza for months document the territory's continued destruction. Filmed by ITV News International Editor Emma Murphy, on board a plane dropping aid into Gaza, the images show huge swathes of land in ruins. Journalists are prevented from entering Gaza by Israel.

Looking out the plane windows from 15,000 feet is the closest any foreign media has been to seeing the aftermath of 22 months of war, apart from trips arranged by the Israeli military. Entire areas have been levelled after months of Israeli bombardment; the land, once pebbled with spots of green, has largely turned to dust.


The Al Wafa Centre for Elderly Care is one of a few buildings in this area of Gaza to still stand. Credit: ITV News

The Al Wafa Centre for Elderly Care, located in Al-Zahraa City, stands out in a landscape primarily made of rubble. The centre said it provides care for elderly people over 60 with no one to care for them, free of charge. While the building still stands, it has not escaped aerial attacks, according to Palestinian sources.

In November 2023, there are multiple reports of Israeli shells hitting the elderly care centre and killing its director, Dr. Medhat Muheisen. Videos from the centre's social media, before the war began ,show elderly patients being fed, provided with activities and partaking in exercise. They also show the surrounding area of the hospital and what stood there before it was turned to rubble.


Buildings once surrounded the Al Wafa Centre for Elderly Care Credit: Al Wafa Centre for Elderly Care



snip



Rare aerial imagery shows displacement and destruction in Gaza

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/rare-aerial-imagery-shows-displacement-and-destruction-in-gaza/ar-AA1JMdbv



KING ABDULLAH II AIR BASE, Jordan — Blocks upon blocks of crumbling buildings, punctuated by vast tent encampments. Scenes of devastation where neighborhoods once stood. A chance to ride along on a Jordanian aid flight Wednesday carrying out airdrops over the Gaza Strip offered a rare opportunity for low-altitude aerial views of the scale of destruction and displacement in the territory.

Gaza has been closed to foreign reporters since Israel began its military operation in response to the Hamas attack on Oct. 7, 2023, and views from above have been limited largely to satellite imagery, Israeli military photos and drone footage from Gazan journalists and media workers — at least 186 of whom have been killed, according to the Committee to Protect Journalists.



snip

Sky News and BBC journalists who reported from aid flights from Jordan this week said they were told that Israel had prohibited filming Gaza from above. The organizations did not say how the directive had been conveyed. Sky reported that it was informed Israel could delay or cancel aid flights if its journalists filmed Gaza. The IDF declined to comment on the matter.

snip









It was “very sad” to see the Gaza Strip from above, Maher Halaseh, 36, a Royal Jordanian Air Force navigator who also took part in last year’s airdrops, said Friday. “Everything is different. There’s no buildings, nothing. A lot of tents on the shoreline. I start to see it when all the buildings were there. Nowadays, there’s nothing. They are dying over there.” A closer look shows how hundreds of thousands of Gazans are living, in makeshift tents erected anywhere space can be found, including on the beach in Gaza’s south.



snip

[Ping Tung]

34. Tacitus quoted a captured victim.

[Bayard]

56. Thanks for posting these, Celerity

I wish they would show them on major news networks.

I don't see how any Palestinians are surviving. I guess that's the point.

[IronLionZion]

19. Less rubble, more human beings out and about

[Cirsium]

21. Satisfied?

Has the question been answered to your satisfaction?

[Oopsie Daisy]

30. Not particularly.

None of the follow-up photos appear to show a genuine "before" version of the same spot as the one shown in the OP.

Yes, I see a war-torn country, but not "nuclear weapon" level of devastation as described in the OP.

[Cirsium]

40. Oh, I see

Yes, I understand! I always want to see photos of the children before their limbs are blown off before I will accept the legitimacy of photos of them after their limbs are blown off.

[ECL213]

67. Did you see #17?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

25. before what?

[randr]

10. This is not a war

It is genocide

[Jay25]

18. Truth!

[democrank]

12. Netanyahu the Barbarian

How can anyone condone this?

[3825-87867]

13. Attributed to Friedrich Nietzsche...

"And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music"

[NNadir]

14. Over the last century, fossil fuel weapons of mass destruction have killed more people and destroyed...

...more cities and land area than were destroyed in the only nuclear war that ever took place 80 years ago. That war, so far as the United States and Japan was concerned, started as an oil war. The attack on Pearl Harbor was designed to protect the flanks of the Japanese efforts to take the oil fields of Borneo and Java after the United States embargoed oil exports to Japan.

Interestingly no one calls for the banning of oil because it can be used and is almost continuously used to make weapons of mass destruction.

The photo in the OP also looks like Tokyo after the US firebombing in 1945.

[Celerity]

42. Hiroshima After Atomic Bomb Dropped

my OP pic of Gaza



and 3 others

[NNadir]

51. You may as well have used aerial photos of Tokyo, Nagoya, Dresden, Hamburg, Rotterdam...

...Coventry....etc, etc...in the period between 1939-1945.

There are lots of such photos on the internet. I can't link them right now since I'm posting using a phone.

I wonder if without the familiar landmarks, the Hiroshima dome or the marble angel in the tower at Dresden one could pass a quiz looking at a set of pictures of devastated cityscapes one could correctly answer with high accuracy a quiz identifying whether a picture comes from Nagasaki or Nagoya or any of the 67 firebombed Japanese cities destroyed by biofuels mixed with petroleum (which is what napalm is - the "palm" refers to palmitic acid, a biofuel).

I have a number of significant of publications in my personal library on the only nuclear war that ever took place, and I'm sure I would fail such a test.

I did not say that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not flattened, but was simply remarking on nuclear exceptionalism.

My point, probably less than subtle, is that nuclear exceptionalism is in fact destroying the entire planet, a point I make often.

[Celerity]

69. You are free to make an OP using aerial photos of Tokyo, Nagoya, Dresden, Hamburg, Rotterdam etc as comparisons.

I chose a nuclear weapon's damage and I am good with my choice.

[NNadir]

72. Ok. Fine. I made my point and you made yours. We are free to abhor war in each our own way.

[Ping Tung]

66. There are no winners in war. Only survivors. Bertrand Russell

[Lonestarblue]

15. It has been genocide for months.

Republicans and much of the world simply don’t care. Just as they don’t care absolutely it the starvation in Yemen and other poor countries or the war crimes against women and children.

At least some are beginning to wake up to Israel’s atrocities. How many more Palestinians will die, though, before they take action? It’s a positive step to acknowledge Palestinian statehood, but that won’t feed starving people. Severe economic sanctions on Israel and a cessation of all aid need to happen now and the UN given access to feed people in Gaza with no interference from the murdering IDF.

[niyad]

16. May all involved receive everything they deserve.

[maxsolomon]

58. I read OPs on DU asserting that all Americans are complicit in Genocide through our tax dollars

and our inability to make our govt end aid or make Israel end the siege. I read one yesterday.

What do we deserve? A curse like Trump?

[niyad]

93. It never fails to astonish me how such a simple sentence, clearly

understood by many, can be so confusing for others. May all involved receive everything they deserve. An interesting litmus test of people's perceptions and preconceptions. Justice, retribution, mercy, freedom. . .the possibilities are endless and individual. I have no idea what thee Multiverse thinks.

[maxsolomon]

99. Your "simple" sentence is exceedingly vague.

You're aware of this.

Sorry to astonish you with my confusion.

[niyad]

101. Actually, it is quite specific, and I have even explained it. So now I am

done with this.

[Martin68]

22. Israel prohibited aerial photography of Gaza, but this journalist hitched a ride on a Jordanian aid delivery.

It does in deed look like Nagasaki and Hiroshima, which were bombed almost exactly 80 years ago. The only difference is the absence of lingering radiation.

[AloeVera]

38. Gaza bombing equivalent to SIX HIROSHIMAS.

https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-equivalent-to-six-hiroshimas-says-bradford-world-affairs-expert.php

Unimaginable this was allowed to happen.

Also, maybe not radiation, but toxic substances that have poisoned the air, water and soil.

One of the many reasons I never believed the whole "Gaza Riviera" ploy. The rich want a pristine environment for their playground, not a toxic (and haunted) wasteland.

[Beastly Boy]

63. Hamas fired over 12,000 missiles at Israel in 2023 alone.

At an average of 50 kilo each, the total payload of these missiles comes down to 600,000 kilo. That's 600 kilotonnes of explosives

An equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb is 12,000 tonnes, or 12 kilotonnes.

Hamas fired an equivalent of 50 Hiroshimas at Israel, in just one month. And I am not counting all the missiles fored at Israel from Lebanon and Iran.

Where is the friggin performative outrage?

[Cirsium]

74. "Performative" outrage?

"Human rights violations by one party cannot justify violations by its opponents." - Amnesty International

https://www.amnesty.org.uk/unlawful-and-deadly-palestinian-rocket-attacks-gaza

[Beastly Boy]

83. Yes, disregarding facts to score partisan points, day after day, after day, is performative.

[Cirsium]

94. Partisan points?

How does that differ from what you are doing?

[Beastly Boy]

95. I am not here to score point. I am here to challenge BS, including performative outrage.

[Cirsium]

96. Sure

That is what those whom you are criticizing say, too.

I think you are saying that atrocities committed against Israeli civilians are not getting enough attention, yes? Others are saying that atrocities committed against Palestinian civilians are not getting enough attention.

I hope you are not saying that atrocities against Israeli civilians justify atrocities committed against Palestinians.

[Beastly Boy]

100. Not exactly.

What I am saying is that I hate overt bias being acted out as a virtue for the sake of appearing righteous to others.

I am saying that atrocities committed by Hamas are not getting nearly the volume or the frequency of condemnation due them. This concerns Hamas crimes against both Israeli and Gazan civilians. And the never-ending deluge of indiscriminate ill-conceived accusations against Israel, Israelis and Jews serves as a thin veil for the bias behind the silence.

[Cirsium]

119. Thanks

Thanks for the response.

Is there "overt bias being acted out as a virtue for the sake of appearing righteous to others?" How would we know that to be the case? Are there not entirely legitimate objections to the actions by the Israeli government in Gaza?

The atrocities committed by Hamas get condemnation every time the topic comes up. I would call that "frequent."

The criticism of Israel has been relatively mild in the US given the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. I wouldn't say there has been a "never-ending deluge." You say there have been "indiscriminate ill-conceived accusations." I think those are pretty rare. Most of the accusations are accurate.

No matter how evil Hamas is that would never justify going after a civilian population.

Defending Israel as a home for the Jewish people, the need to protect that safe home at all costs, and recognition of the centuries of programs and mass murder, and the bigotry and persecution suffered by the Jewish people, are vitally important. It is also important to acknowledge that as the basis for support for the state of Israel. Many, probably most people who are not Jewish do not understand that, and criticism of Israel almost always includes someone in the discussion pushing various antisemitic ideas.

That said, what the Netanyahu government is doing in Gaza is horrific and unacceptable.

[Martin68]

121. It is interesting that a you cannot conceive the possibility that someone could look at the damage in Gaza and come

to the conclusion that it is excessive and inhumane. Did all those children, hospital patients, and elderly Palestinians who died in Israel bombing raids attack Israel? Labeling those with a different point of view based on abundant evidence "performative" is both insulting and cowardly. Shame on you, Beastly.

[Beastly Boy]

122. That's what I mean. An immediate deflection into the topic raised and discussed in hundreds of threads, just to avoid

an occasional call to acknowledge Hamas' role in all the destruction you are talking about.

And on top of that, I should lower my head in shame for daring to mention the unmentionable. God forbid I should do it again!

[Martin68]

123. I believe we have all acknowledged the horror and criminality of the Hamas attack. Israel's inhumane and genocidal

bombing has continued for how long now? And is still continuing. We are responding to a daily occurrence. Bringing up Hamas every time somone criticizes Israeli policy in Gaza is worse than a distraction, although it is indeed that. It is also a willful decision to turn a blind eye to a horror occurring in real time. Right now. Wake up, Beastly. You sound like a broken record, and are just as informative.

[Beastly Boy]

124. You may have acknowledge it, but that's where it ended. A while ago.

No attempt at all to act on this acknowledgement and join the voices that demand the imme4diate release of the hostages. Not even an acknowledgement of its extent or its role in making the existence of Gazan civilians unbearable. Something that only Hamas can end tomorrow, but will not in the absence of any significant pressure on them to do so.

And, once again, the conversation immediately gets deflected to Israel. Why am I not surprised?

[Martin68]

127. Beastly, you are living in a world of your own imagination. You have absolutely no idea what I've done to support Israel

hostages. You just make up your own reality as an excuse to deflect from Israeli crimes in Gaza. Most of us condemned the Hamas attack and have long supported the immediate release of the hostages. You are the Supreme Deflector. You keep out any inkling of what Israel has done in Gaza by screaming Hamas! Hamas! Hamas! with your fingers in your ears. I am beginning to doubt you are open to any other views than the one you formed on the day of the Hamas attack. Even the Israeli press is beginning to share the reality of Gaza in small doses, and I believe many Israelis will be truly horrified when they realize what their government and the media have been hiding from them. You, however, will still be shouting Hamas! at the top of your lungs.

[Beastly Boy]

129. I have a very good idea of what deflection is when I see it..

And now I have a very good idea what an ad hominem deflection is.

Don't bother proving my point again. Three times is plenty.

[Martin68]

138. You got that right, you are unreachable.

[AloeVera]

78. By the grace of God...Israel is still standing...after 50 Hiroshimas!!

It's nothing short of a miracle.



Luckily for Israel, it was hit with less than 3% of the power of Hiroshima (I'm sure the confusion on your part of the kg to kilotonne equivalent was an honest mistake. As was the kilotonne power of Hiroshima, which was actually 15, not 12.)

Lucky for Israel also that there is a bit of a difference between nuclear fission and home-made rockets. Which totally nullifies a silly comparison using explosive strength as the comparison. Even IF the underlying claims about rocket numbers and their explosive power in kgs are true - which of course have not been substantiated.

(Sometimes I play with the Ignore Option in hopes of finding amusement. Never fails. But this expedition should last me for awhile.)

[Beastly Boy]

89. Yes, it was an honest mistake, Just as I presume the less than 3% rather than 4% (an error of more than 25%)

was an honest mistake on your part.

But you more than made up for it. Turns out that there is a bit of a difference between nuclear fission and short-range precision munitions. I may add that there is a hell of a difference between precision munitions and "home made" rockets designed and produced under the supervision of Iranian military advisers. Just because they were stored in and fired from someone's home doesn't make them home-made.

Turns out that your whole comparison between nuclear and conventional weapons does not hold water.

But it is an honest mistake of a self-own, so all is forgiven.

Looking forward to what you will be divulging the next time you take me off your ignore list.

[AloeVera]

132. I corrected for BOTH of your two mistakes. You, of course, didn't

You only corrected for one.

Just responding to your first paragraph. Don't know what you wrote after. Not interested.

[Beastly Boy]

137. You should have read my second paragraph.

It goes into why, according to you, the second correction is unnecessaty and irrelevant:

"Turns out that your whole comparison between nuclear and conventional weapons does not hold water."

...How often do you take me off your ignore list anyway?

[PufPuf23]

88. Please cite your source.

Next you will tell us the destruction is from the Hamas missiles striking Gaza.

Where is your shame?

[Martin68]

120. Let's see the aerial photographs of the damage from those missiles and compare. Sounds like performative bothsidesism to

me.

[Exp]

26. NEVER FORGET !!!

Who the FUCK would do such a thing???!!!

[Srkdqltr]

27. I don't care what anyone here thinks, what they are doing is so dead wrong its against the very laws of humanity.

Not the first time and probably not the last.

[Ocelot II]

31. That's beyond shocking. Are there any intact buildings left in Gaza at all?

I'm not going to argue about technical/legal definitions of genocide but I don't know what the fuck else to call this.

[Beastly Boy]

92. War?

Because genocide has a technical legal definition.

[wolfie001]

33. Looks like Hiroshima

Nut-and-Yahoo is a genocidal madman.

[ancianita]

36. Yes, it does. As Hamas' Charter literally, in writing, calls for this same thing to happen to all of Israel.

Which Israel has had to defend itself against 15 times, across three generations and 13 leaders.

[AloeVera]

39. I missed the time Hamas unleashed bombs on Israel equivalent to SIX Hiroshimas.

https://www.bradford.ac.uk/news/archive/2025/gaza-bombing-equivalent-to-six-hiroshimas-says-bradford-world-affairs-expert.php

[ancianita]

44. Yeah, know why? Because you also missed that Israel has not unleashed bombs, rockets, long range missiles 15 times,

thus attempting the equivalent of six Hiroshimas. You also missed that Israel has not raped, tortured, killed, and kidnapped innocent Gazans 15 times within their borders.

You've also missed previous discussions about why...
Historians and archaeologists agree that Israel and Judah existed as separate kingdoms around 900 to 850 BCE respectively.
No matter what Shia (Iran) and Sunni (Saudi Arabia) say in 2025, and no matter what Palestinians and Hamas say in 2025 ... That state is now Israel.

We here still have a slightly free country, so anyone can have opinions about Israel's 16th existential war.

But no one outside of Israel can have this final war both ways.

If Hamas didn't want Gaza to suffer the effects of war, Hamas should never have fucking started one.

Because it did this is all 100% on Hamas. Every death. 100% on Hamas.

Because of Hamas' founding written intent has been to annihilate Israel from the river to the sea,

Gaza must now become the militarized zone of Israel's south.

[AloeVera]

46. Oh.My.God.

Bye.

[ancianita]

50. Your God has nothing to do with your lack of logic.

See ya.

[gab13by13]

61. Why are Jewish Rabbis

calling for the US to stop arming Israel? Renegade Rabbis?

[Beastly Boy]

90. Because they are effin religious nutcases whom nobody is taking seriously?

Members of Neturei Karta believe that Israel's founding was an affront to God because it provided the means for an effectively secular undoing of the Jewish exile, while also being a Jewish state that does not absolutely govern by religious law. The organization believes that the Jewish people may only be restored to the Land of Israel by the Messiah, who will bring about the resurrection of the dead, the ingathering of the exiles, and a complete return to Torah law. As such, it does not recognize Israel and has pursued relationships with entities seeking to destroy Israel. With regard to the Israeli–Palestinian conflict, Neturei Karta endorses a form of the one-state solution in which the Palestinian people control the combined territory of Israel and the State of Palestine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neturei_Karta

[slightlv]

103. It seems like most autocratic governments these days (dictatorships)

rest on theocracy as the end goal... like, that will totally remake everyone's hearts. If only....

[Bettie]

54. Apparently, it's fine to kill everyone in a given place

if you say "we need it for security".

My guess is that they want to finish with Gaza so they can put the full force of their military into "cleansing" the West Bank. Seems like the settlers there are getting impatient.

[ancianita]

65. Apparently, then, it's fine to kill Israelis for who they are in their given place.

This isn't about Bibi as a genocidal maniac, this is about Bibi protecting Israel's very existence in the 16th unprovoked war waged against it.

Apparently the ongoing genocidal attempts against Israel are okay to continue against it if one doesn't actually live in Israel.

[writerJT]

104. Never forget.

This is a holocaust.

[radicalleft]

112. Unprovoked

LOL...that's a good one...

[AloeVera]

68. Yes but don't forget the settlers have plans for Gaza too.

One of the extremist Ministers Ben-Gvir or Smotrich has presented a plan to settle 1.2 million settlers into Gaza. Of course that was always one of the goals. Not even well-hidden.

The West Bank...I weep.

Soon there won't be anything left to "recognize" by our brave Western leaders.

Yes, apparently ethnic cleansing is considered justified by some. As is killing of civilians in revenge and "conquest" of holy land (THEIR holy land). As is "mowing the lawn" numerous times, resulting in the deaths of thousands or the killing of nearly 6,000 Palestinians by settlers and the IDF in the 15 years preceding this "war". All of it notably absent from the one-sided narrative. Some lives are worth more than others for some, I guess.

[Skittles]

102. it's hopeless

seriously, it's why it never fucking ends

[Ping Tung]

53. Maybe Bibi can get his pal Trump to build a big wall and have Palestine pay for it.

[ancianita]

55. Are you suggesting a maga solution, or just being sarcastic.

If you're kidding on the square and expecting me to pick one, I'll go with the square level, and say that Bibi knows that a militarized zone works better than a wall.

Because all Bibi's pal is doing is leaving him alone.

[Ping Tung]

62. Bibi also "knows" he and his murderers are commiting war crimes and genocide.

A militarized zone? Yeah that would make it even easier to to bomb and starve innocent people. Just like the South African apartheid worked for black people.

Even Israelis are beginning to see the horror and futility of the killing. Along with most of the rest of the world.

[ancianita]

71. You really don't know what Bibi knows.

A militarized zone has nothing to do with South Africa's apartheid regimes. Yes, killing is a horror. So tell that to Israel's enemies who've attacked it 16 times, unprovoked -- for months and years at a time -- in 77 years.

One thing that Bibi knows, for all his internal corruption: Israel has constitutionally guaranteed the co-equal rights of Palestinians in its constitution, and Palestinians have refused to co-exist with Israel, thus all the militarized Palestinian leaders through past decades.

Coexistence has only had a shot with a two-state solution, which the Palestinians have rejected four times:

1967 – Post-Six-Day War: The Arab League, including Palestinian factions, issued the "Three No's": no peace, no recognition, and no negotiations with Israel.
2000 – Camp David Accords: Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat rejected a proposal facilitated by the U.S. that included a Palestinian state in Gaza, over 90% of the West Bank, and parts of East Jerusalem.
2008 – Olmert Proposal: A comprehensive offer from Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, including territorial concessions and arrangements for Jerusalem and refugees, was not accepted by Mahmoud Abbas, President of the Palestinian Authority.
2020 – Trump Peace Plan: The Palestinian Authority rejected this plan, which envisioned a demilitarized Palestinian state with a capital in East Jerusalem.

As it now stands (as in the past) Palestinians don't want their own state, therefore they don't want coexistence.
They fundamentally oppose the existence of a Jewish state.
Therefore, they've left Israel with no choice but to sure as hell not let Palestinians genocide Israel into non-existence.

What Bibi also "knows" is this: with Bibi or without Bibi, Israel will continue to exist.
So it sounds like you (and maybe others) are saying this:
that for Hamas and Gaza Palestinians, their written ends -- wiping Israel off the face of the Earth -- justify any means necessary; but the same can't hold true -- that Israel's ends justify its means -- even when it's been continually attacked by Palestinian orgs and their allies. This double standard, even though Israel, unlike them, does not oppose the existence of a Palestinian state, as they have.

This is bigger than what Bibi "knows."
The West has committed to Israel staying in existence.
The Middle East has no similar commitment to a Palestinian state's existence.
The ME's wealthy nations have allowed Palestinians to be their proxy -- ME nations provide stealth armament and spying in good times, then shelter and the appearance of negotiations in bad times -- while their fight against the existence of Israel and the West continues.

[Ping Tung]

73. Bibi and his killers "know" that the ICC has warrants out for thieur arrests.

There are 125 members of the ICC that are required to arrest him if he appears in their nations.

As for Apartheid connections:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%E2%80%93South_Africa_relationsor

In 1947, South Africa voted in favor of the UN Partition Plan to create Israel. During the 1950s and 1960s, Israel criticized the racial policies of South Africa.[2] But from 1967 onwards, Israel deepened relations with the apartheid South African regime,[3] and maintained diplomatic relations with the "Bantustans". Israel and South Africa also had a military alliance, including collaboration on nuclear weapons.. [Up to 1986, Israel also had a vibrant economic relationship but was forced to sanction South Africa in 1987 as a consequence of American pressure.

Relations began to deteriorate after apartheid ended in 1994. Nelson Mandela visited Israel, but was critical of its treatment of Palestinians. In 2019, South Africa downgraded relations with Israel in response to its killing of Gazan protestors. In 2023, during the Gaza war, South Africa sued Israel at the International Court of Justice, accusing Israel of committing genocide against Palestinians in violation of the Genocide Convention. Israel currently maintains an embassy in Pretoria and a trade office in Johannesburg, while South Africa has an embassy in Tel Aviv

[ancianita]

75. I hear you. But that won't stop Bibi from running this war such that these particular attackers won't ever do it again

We like Israel, but not too much. If Israel is genocidally destroyed, oh well. In the meantime if Israel pursues the genocidal practices of its past enemies in order to win a war it did not start, then we report its leader to the I.C.C., but not the leaders of the attackers.

Yah, well Mandela visited the U.S., too, and didn't like the way America treated its African Americans, either.
I know well the historical relationship that the currently hypocritical -- and very corporate controlled -- South Africa has had with Israel. So what.

The international community will not save Israel and Israel knows it.
And the I.C.C. can sort out its legalities after Israel wins this war. Big deal.

If we here were under threat from Canada and Mexico all our lives, and were suddenly attacked with long range missiles and drone warfare, and this POS prez did all he could to keep our country in existence, would you really care if the I.C.C. had a warrant out for him? Easy to say no when your life hasn't been under threat your entire life.

[Ping Tung]

77. The only solution(s) I can imagine is that negations should be started and managed by

disinterested and unbiased 3rd parties. What's been going on since the State of Israel was founded has nerve worked. It's time that the rest of world steps in and works for some kind of peace beyond the nationalist, dogmatic, true believers on all sides.

I was born in 1944 and my life has been "under threat" ever since.

It doesn't matter a damned bit who wins the war when you're dead. Yossarian from Catch-22.

[ancianita]

80. "What's been going on since the State of Israel was founded has nerve worked." Because its enemies won't let it work.

What you think about "under threat" doesn't match the reality of real threat. Real threat is bombings and short/long range missile hitting your state from neighboring countries. What you feel as threat is subjective and not grounded in objective fact. America has brought the greatest peace and prosperity to the world in world history, thanks to the Democratic Project begun by FDR.

Try reading a couple of Daniel Silva novels. They're way more current about the state of Israel than Heller ever was. Comments on Amazon about his most famous titles should give you some idea.

[Ping Tung]

82. Everything is subjective and relative.

We are all "under threat" all of the time. Whether it's in Israel, Palestine, or Strawberry Point, Iowa. But most civilized people don't kill, starve, torture, other people because they''re afraid of dying.

The World is my country, all mankind are my brethren, and to do good is my religion.
Thomas Paine

[Celerity]

91. ICC issues arrest warrants for Israel, Hamas leadership: what happens next?

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/11/1157406

you said:

then we report its leader to the I.C.C., but not the leaders of the attackers.

[ancianita]

113. Okay, then. I stand corrected. Thanks.

[questionseverything]

85. Israel started the 6 day war and most of the other battles

*unless throwing rocks counts

[ancianita]

111. It did not. Nor did it start any of the others.

Palestinians and Shia terrorist orgs prefer to forget that the sword of Islam will have to face a God of the West who isn't going anywhere, either. The International Christian Embassy of Jerusalem exists to remind Islamists of that.

Believer wars are the bane of the planet.
Most believers want to coexist -- live and let live -- but one group refuses for all eternity.
Which is all it takes for believer wars to continue.
At no time in its history has Israel attacked a neighbor unless it was provoked by suicide bombers, missiles, and/or rockets. But...
Israel will continue forever to defend (against enemies who want it obliterated from the earth) its right to exist.



If you have sources to disprove who started any of these wars, either show them or be shown as contrarily making shit up.

[questionseverything]

114. I can't post links from my phone but all you have to do is google

Btw, that chart isn’t a source

[ancianita]

115. That chart is not from what's called a url. What you're seeing is actually not a real URL.

It's called a base64 encoded string that was compiled as an image by the API.

In fact, this image was obtained by Google, and so yes, I did google it.

[ancianita]

116. Then don't use your phone to make claims you can't source.

[questionseverything]

117. I can say what I like, you are not in charge

If you don’t like what I say , put me on ignore

[ancianita]

118. Understood.

Will do.

[slightlv]

105. No, that's an interesting hypothesis... and one to be considered given the

level of communication and aid trump gave bibi in the first administration. I think the only reason it's not more on-going is because trump has made such a chaotic mess of everything, everywhere in the world he possibly can, and... given his dementia, it's easier to just "forbid" it than to reason out even a short-term solution. Here, I am assuming that your "bibi's pal" is trump, but it could also just as easily be Putin, who is so enmeshed in his own war as to have little time for anyone else's.

A maga solution would be to bomb the hell out of all of Gaza and commit total genocide... and then put up a parking lot (in the words of an old song). It's really what they'd like to do to us, their "enemies" here in the U.S. What's happening in the middle east now, I daresay, could be where we find ourselves in less than a few years. There is no middle ground between our two factions now. Each faction is convinced they're correct in their path, and that path must be followed by every citizen. If not, according to maga, they cease being a citizen (by one way or another). And at the kernel of justification is a religious ideology. SMDH.

I seriously doubt we progressives have any idea of where or how to start their "civil war." And all the attacks already under way by the magas are in the form of mass killings with high powered guns. OK city was an aberration at this point. It may not stay that way if we can't get a handle on this violence and make changes positive again towards a civil society. I have to wonder, however, with all the wars being fought across the world right now, if civilization will destroy itself completely before there are any changes in attitude or behaviors. And all this chaos that trump and putin have wrought gives cover to those committing war crimes. People engaged in their own wars... whether they be with bombs or money or police abuse of any kind, are so entrenched in their own quicksand, reaching out to anyone else is hard to do, and even harder to keep in the front of the mind at all times. It is so depressing, and for those of us who feel empathy, it hurts, especially since there is so little we can do to make a positive impact.

[Exp]

37. Your tax dollars at work. ( Fucking sick!)

Send Netanyahu and every IDF soldier to The Hague.

[maxsolomon]

43. That is what a years-long siege looks like. Every building destroyed.

I saw aerial maps in DU's Most-Hated Newspaper documenting this devastation in 2024. Much of eastern Ukraine looks like this, except it isn't a desert.

If this is the wrong way, what was the right way for the IDF to engage Hamas? Sinwar anticipated these scenes.

[ancianita]

48. Yep. And Sinwar

and the Hamas charter always intended for Israel to look the same way from the river to the sea.

[iemanja]

84. But it doesn't

while Gaza is a wasteland with thousands of starving people.

[Arazi]

97. Yup. Utterly horrific but it looks like many war zones within the past 100 years 😔

[riversedge]

57. I have that the Israels dropped bombs in the fields so Gaza folks could not plant crops and destroyed what

crops and vegetables they had.

[iemanja]

107. The other day, someone actually claimed that the famine was Gaza's fault

for mismanaging their resources.

[gab13by13]

59. Long ago I used to hunt,

We had rules, you couldn't bait deer in with salt licks, you couldn't bait bear in with corn.

It appears that it is legal to bait men, women and children in with food trucks in Gaza.

[twodogsbarking]

70. Jared and Ivanka are waiting offshore to draw up plans for their resort and Trump concrete is prepared to pour

whatever amount is needed to make the entire place look like the rose garden.

[AloeVera]

81. They might get a nasty surprise. Gaza is a toxic sludge

..of poisoned air, water, soil

Caused by the "war".

I wish them happy resorting. Wish they were there already.

[twodogsbarking]

86. Jared's family does have some experience in renting substandard housing if I recall correctly.

Not sure how Saudi money will work for Gaza though. Moving back there seems futile, sadly. Good comment though. Thanks.

[Demovictory9]

76. Wow

[lees1975]

79. The unimaginable 21st century tragedy is Gaza

https://signalpress.blogspot.com/2025/08/gaza-has-become-unimaginable-twenty.html

Being critical of this is not anti-semitic.

[Oopsie Daisy]

98. Interesting "tilt shift" effect on that photo.

[MineralMan]

125. Well, I have never personally seen a populated area that has been destroyed by a nuclear weapon.

So far, only Hiroshima and Nagasaki qualify, as far as I know. I have seen some before and after photos of both, though.

They were cities with reasonably large populations. You can look up before and after images of both. As for the photo in the OP, I have no reference for the before picture, which isn't offered. I can see that the place is not an urban community. More like a rural town, with winding dirt roads, etc.

So, I think the comparison is probably not particularly a good one. Yes, there is a great deal of destruction shown, but not on the nuclear weapon scale. There are still some two story buildings standing in the foreground of that photo, and we do not know what that looked like beforehand.

I deplore the destruction, as I do all damages of wars. But I think the comparison with a nuclear attack is overdrawn. Looks like typical wartime destruction to me.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

126. Looks like AI to me.

Devastation beyond ecological plausibility.
Unrealistic and illogical roadways.
Unnatural depth of field in a Tilt-Shift which isn't common to reputable journalistic warzone photography and also lacking in focus gradients found in real photography.
Repetitive copy-pastes of rubble formation via cloning tools using AI filler shared in his other photographs similar.
No human trace in either rubble or inactive form other than specific, in-focus elements in the bottom left.
Lighting and atmospheric inconsistencies.
Ecological impacts not matching level of devastation.
Complete lack of any impact craters, or even tracks for the "Construction vehicles" in the bottom left of the image
Square blocks of sand banks not noted in any satellite photos I could find of any section of Gaza yet prevalent here in abundance and following grid lines that don't exist by road structures.
Presumably Israeli vehicles in the mid-bottom of the image are overlapping and nearby "Tank" (presumably) has no known IDF equivalent
Construction vehicles, like third from left of "Tank", would not be left with their hoes in the ground implying further AI modification (And the second vehicle to the left's treads are completely nonexistent)
Structural pillars being left intact is common in AI prompts to produce "Destruction" and is reproduced in other photos from NYT.
Photographer is known for sensationalist photography to provoke emotional but not entirely truthful response, and this photo is notable for deviating from his normal visual style of focus on human presence. Looks like a post-photograph AI "Enhancement" designed to push a narrative.

MIGHT be a real photo or even a conglomerate, but probably not given the list I've provided beforehand. Specifically the shadows, as they tend to vary between locations in the photo.

Still, a noble effort. Easy to pick apart once I had the time, but very clearly altered. AI at best, mildly deceptive photoshop at worst.

[Celerity]

128. FUD attempt fail. It is not AI. It was taken by Diego Ibarra Sanchez for The New York Times, as I put in the OP.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/05/world/middleeast/un-israel-gaza-war-hostages.html

https://archive.ph/nR4jO

snapshot showing the link and the pic




Here are more of his pics from the flight:






https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/02/world/middleeast/gaza-aiddrop-jordan.html

https://archive.ph/x9Onk

Airdrops are not known for their precision. On Thursday, after sweeping over the devastated landscape that is now Gaza, a Jordanian Air Force plane descended and banked. Following a brief countdown, its rear doors opened and, with two crew members tethered at the edge, pallets of food were dispatched to an uncertain fate.

The method is notoriously unreliable, the amount of food insufficient, but Gazans are starving, and so after a hiatus of months, Jordan is one of several countries that have resumed the drops in recent days. “I feel bad,” a load master on the flight, Saif Alzahrawy, said quietly, of the situation in Gaza. “We hope this is enough. But I want to do more.”

The airdrop on Thursday was one of two conducted by the Jordanian Air Force in cooperation with the United Arab Emirates. In all, it said, some 20 tons of food and other basic necessities were parachuted over the territory, where Israel has been at war with Hamas since the group’s deadly attack on southern Israel in October 2023.

International aid drops to Gaza resumed this week after Israel lifted a prohibition on them that had lasted for almost nine months.

Aid officials have warned that Gaza’s two million people are facing mass starvation, with many countries, including some of Israel’s allies, holding the Israeli government responsible for the situation. Israel has said it is doing everything it can to allow aid into the enclave and has argued that relief agencies need to do more to distribute food already inside.

snip

















snip

https://www.diegoibarra.com/gaza-air-drop-aid

[vanessa_ca]

133. Wow. Just wow. Here's a video for your AI fantasy

?si=aa6Qai8Ac9P9JPlJ

[Hellbound Hellhound]

134. Interestingly, not a single shot of your video resembles the picture in the OP. Thanks for the proof. n/t

[vanessa_ca]

136. Denial, denial, denial. I wish I could say I was surprised -eom

[writerJT]

140. All too common. No surprise at all.

[Hellbound Hellhound]

141. Why aren't you surprised, the Star of David as my profile pic?

Yeah, stereotypical "Lyin' Jew", always out to screw over anyone for a penny, how dare someone have an opinion!

I'm a Catholic calling out a shitty photoshopped and AI-smeared job.

Shit, I got the same type of image out of SORA, the OpenAI image developer, in roughly six minutes with a half-assed, one-handed prompt. Not quite as high fidelity, a bit of smearing around the vehicles, but otherwise identical.

But I ain't paying 20 bucks a month to post freebie image requests on a random internet forum.


It's easily 'shopped as anyone who's been on the Internet since 1990 could tell you.

[vanessa_ca]

142. Figures -eom

[writerJT]

139. Anything to excuse genocide.

“Never forget”

[muriel_volestrangler]

135. Guardian cartoonist Martin Rowson thought so too:

Cartoon for 6th August, the 80th anniversary of Hiroshima: