General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBirds are gone
Grew up and have lived in the Midwest for most of my life. The lack of morning songbirds has really stood out this spring & summer. Used to be that you would never think about counting them because there would be so many. Now I can literally count them on one hand.
marble falls
(70,074 posts)popsdenver
(1,314 posts)same here in Denver........
when I was a kid here, (50's) there were tons of birds, and butterflys......you could go to any vacant lot and catch "HornyToads", go to any pond and catch tadpoles, frogs and crayfish.........
The other thing really obvious.......in the 70's, 80's, 90's we still got snows in the entire winter here in Denver, and even a 3-4' one a couple of times a winter......... The past three years, I haven't fired up the snow blower ONCE.......and rarely used it even back to 2000.......
Our front range is currently under RED FLAG Warnings, and they will last until October..............
OC375
(373 posts)Humans. Thats the long and short of it. Modern human culture is at odds with Earth. Theres too many people.
Dr. T
(477 posts)and that the planet will purge itself. New life will emerge, just as it's been doing for millions of years, but we won't be part of it.
Disaffected
(6,070 posts)It is an excellent analogy.
mjvpi
(1,830 posts)Chipper Chat
(10,718 posts)And she once told me that when she was a little girl more than half of the birds in her yard were red yellow, and blue. Black birds were a minority.
Easterncedar
(5,356 posts)No more dawn chorus, just struggling soloists here in Maine. .
somethingshiny
(74 posts)My garden in southwest Ohio is teeming with bees, butterflies and birds. I have more hummingbirds this year than ever before. A Carolina wren serenades me every day while I water the flowers and veg. Plenty of lightening bugs when the sun goes down.
paleotn
(21,329 posts)Depends on where you are. Last time I visited the Midwest, Cedar Rapids Iowa, the mono culture, industrial AG as far as you can see was astounding. Seen it many times but its always a shock.
We dont have that in northern New England so the ecosystems, though stressed , are generally intact. Seems nature is being squeezed into smaller, fragmented patches.
Taylor Picker
(3,924 posts)I may be only 2-3 hours or so away from you in south-central Indiana, but we've also had more hummingbirds than ever, and we see bees, butterflies, eastern bluebirds, northern cardinals, robins, goldfinches, and more every day. We had a brown thrasher in our driveway a few weeks ago. Too many woodpeckers, of course.
somethingshiny
(74 posts)I know my coneflowers, zinnias and other stuff would bloom more and look better if I'd deadhead, but I love watching them perch delicately on the stems to eat the seeds.
I prefer the appearance of my coleus when I pinch off the blooms to showcase the foliage, but the hummies and bumblebees are all over the flowers so I'm leaving them. Trying to accommodate those pollinators as much as possible!
BumRushDaShow
(164,495 posts)Just a couple days ago, I spotted a goldfinch on my tall coneflowers. I got a clump from the PA Horticultural Society plant dividend back in 2018 and planted them for the butterflies but apparently the goldfinches love them too.
The earliest blooming ones were done and side shoots were starting to bloom, but these are thick stemmed perennials that are at least 4ft - 5ft or more tall, where the stems stay upright without a support, and could easily support the bird. It was a male who was carefully clinging to the stem plucking at the seed heads and going from flower to flower. Definitely brightened my day!
The next day he came back but then started fighting with a sparrow.
I don't normally cut those back for more blooms as they seem to resprout along the stems anyway and they self-seed all over the place, so I'm constantly pulling seedlings out from where they don't belong!
Bettie
(19,185 posts)we have two bumblebee hives, lots of other bugs, plenty of birds, though not as many in our yard as we used to have since we had to take down most of the big Maple tree....it was dying.
Bats at night too.
doc03
(38,737 posts)my feeder. They must have moved to Ohio.
paleotn
(21,329 posts)Along with crows, coyotes and ticks, they seem to be thriving in our modified landscape.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,105 posts)migrate. They're not guarding territory or looking for mates anymore. Sorry if your spring was poor as well, but August is often a time when people are like "where'd all the songbirds go??"
MLWR
(722 posts)The house finches, the mourning doves, the white-winged doves, the robins, the sparrows, the spotted towhees, the jays have all gone completely silent where I live.
WhiskeyGrinder
(26,105 posts)FeelingBlue
(791 posts)An album called, Lost Birds? Its a gorgeous elegy to the birds we have lost. Christopher Tin is the composer. Im recommending it to everyone in this conversation.
RandomNumbers
(19,035 posts)in the woods behind my house.
It has been a sad year.
I have a lot of native plants so do see many birds (they love the insects that enjoy the native plants), but the diminishment of the wood thrush song is striking and depressing. (I've heard them on occasion this year ... but it is much less than previous years.)
3825-87867
(1,764 posts)May-be we just need more DDT in Republican Circles!
mopinko
(73,227 posts)it wiped out the crows and the jays. a friend who is a letter carrier said her route was just littered w dead birds. i used to have a murder of 30-40 birds in my big tree on the regular. havent had a single 1 in my yard since.
they were starting to come back. i live down the block from a commuter train line. there r trees all along it. as of a couple yrs ago, they had slowly been occupying those trees, so i wd see the occasional pair doing honeymoon flights. this yr i havent seen a single 1.
mwmisses4289
(2,953 posts)Singing birds are mostly sparrows, mocking birds and cardinals, bugs mostly mosquitos, raccoons, possums, and squirrels for the small mammals.
Dave says
(5,301 posts)And a lake at the bottom of the cliff. It attracts tons of birds of all kinds every day. Also small mammals (make the owls happy), foxes, raccoons, coyote, deer, frogs, plentiful fish in the lake. Its like a zoo here! And were a small enclave in the center of a small midwestern city.
I do notice a marked decline in insects, though. Eventually the songbirds will have to forage elsewhere.
And I acknowledge the problem elsewhere. Before moving here, I lamented the growing absence of songbirds and thats just 2 hours east of where I live now. Definitely, the ecosphere is changing.
SunSeeker
(57,393 posts)Sharma Dreihund
(24 posts)Here we are the invasive humans, capable of cultivation and exploration. Let's actually love the earth and plant something the birds and pollinators like. Let's not so sculpture our gardens and yards that it pushes them off the plot. We can do it.
hunter
(40,292 posts)Even if you have no land you can still plant something for the birds.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_gardening
mucifer
(25,472 posts)The forest preserve is a mile from my home. Lots of volunteers there planting things to attract the birds.
FakeNoose
(39,795 posts)At least in Pennsylvania, they're still around. I find bird crap on my windshield almost every morning.
But joking aside, the songbirds will be more evident once things cool down a bit. July was spectacularly hot and dry however it's abating somewhat in August. Hoping we get rain soon.
HeartsCanHope
(1,455 posts)We have loads of songbirds every morning in Missouri.
somethingshiny
(74 posts)A birdbath full of fresh water and a bowl on the ground for the mammals is essential, especially in this heat!
HeartsCanHope
(1,455 posts)Thank you for mentioning water!
Topomi
(42 posts)I never even put screens in this year. Windows open, lights on, not even a mosquito. Very few birds on my walk through woods and fields each day.
Bluestocking
(448 posts)They have all migrated to the blue states. Ive got plenty of birds and mammals in my area. Also turtles and snakes.
sinkingfeeling
(56,961 posts)RandomNumbers
(19,035 posts)I have a native area specifically for butterflies. Seeing many fewer this year.
On a happier note, at the moment it appears there are monarch eggs on almost every healthy milkweed plant. So there's that. But will migrators find enough food on their way south this year? Sigh.
sinkingfeeling
(56,961 posts)Klaus Hergersheimer
(39 posts)Here in the central section of the Peoples Republic of Maryland our winters have been almost devoid of snow for a decade or so. Some robins now spend the winter here instead of flying south as they did on a regular basis for most of my 77 years. In my childhood a harbinger of spring was awaiting the first robins that usually appeared in early April. Another reason for the year round presence of robins is the proliferation of Bradford and Cleveland pear trees that produce tons of small fruits that hang on the trees and are eaten by the robins during the winter.
So, if climate change is a hoax then what is causing all of these changes?
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,324 posts)Used to wake me up as a kid with the line wake up honey the birds are singing!
When I was really little I argued with my mom a robin was really an orange crow.
And all the time she was alive we kept our eyes peeled to be the one to see the first robin of the year. (It came with bragging rights if you saw the bird first)
Tbear
(658 posts)Then, Whooo-whooo.
Owl. Got a rabbit is my guess.
Diamond_Dog
(39,505 posts)Mostly robins, sparrows, and blue jays.
Mr. Diamond says he sees a lot fewer seagulls up at Lake Erie this summer when he goes out fishing.
randr
(12,609 posts)The migrations made dark streaks in the sky all day. Several bands of birds flying at different altitudes went from horizon to horizon.
EddieOnTheMesa
(77 posts)Numbers are down 90% here in the North West.
I find it very depressing and scary. Afraid it will get worse we are so screwed. You dont have to be in a Coal Mine to notice.
MuseRider
(35,071 posts)I have been watching this for years.
We still have a few rabbits, this year the deer population is almost gone after last year when I had fawn and mamas all over the place. I have 0 birds on my big pond, O. No ducks or geese. I am usually here with my bird count book out and getting filled with marks of birds both in and out of the water.Not one flock since spring and they were here and gone. I have not even had any mice or rats in the barns. No coyotes....I could go on. It is so quiet out here.
I was looking at some older photos, not THAT old but within the last 10 years. I have not heard or seen a quail in probably 3 years. There have not been any birds really. My trees used to be full. No blue birds or robins or anything. The eagles still come for a short time but they do not come back and forth like they used to from the big lake in Lawrence. The Osprey were here for a very short time but there were not many. My trees are empty.
I could go on but it is so sad. It makes the reason I bought this place and built on it look silly. It was full of all kinds of critters...oh yeah I forgot. Where in the heck are the turtles? No snakes in my barns, none.
I am so glad I am getting old enough to not feel like I will miss much when I go. My life was filled with all the wonders we now never see or hear...not a peep out my windows. Only the sound of a truck on gravel as it rolls by, that is one scarce sound I do not mind being infrequent,
Oneironaut
(6,175 posts)There has always been this level of bugs.
There has always been this level of forest fires and smoke.
The temperature is not increasing, and, the weather has always been this chaotic.
Storms are no worse than they were 40 years ago.
Nothing is wrong. Keep consuming!
GusBob
(8,087 posts)Durn birds are tearing up our feeders, dont have time to list all the species honestly
We did find one sick Falcon tho, the rehab folks said it had WNV
stinkin' freeloaders LOL
Easterncedar
(5,356 posts)Numbers have plummeted. No amount of local anecdote insisting all is well can change the facts.
MineralMan
(150,436 posts)What I am seeing, though, is a shift into the migration cycle.
I'm in the Twin Cities metro area in Minnesota, BTW.
This year was a banner year for red-wing blackbirds at our hanging feeder. Serious numbers of them - enough to piss off some neighbors who don't like the noisy birds. About a week ago, they just left. This year's offspring are fully fledged now, and the migration is coming up. so, these flock birds are gearing up for that. Right now, they're doing flock feeding somewhere out in some field. They're not coming to the feeder like they did during the spring and summer months.
So, our bird feed costs have gone way, way down. But, we have a whole new group of birds at the feeder now. The goldfinches are back. They migrate farther north during the summer, but pause at our feeder again in the early fall, before moving further south. Our brown thrashers are hanging around and this year's fledglings are in their full adult feathers. They don't migrate at all, so we'll continue to see them all winter.
The half dozen species of sparrows also winter over here, and they're busy at the feeder, too. Chickadees are darting around grabbing seeds when they can wedge themselves in among the larger birds. Jays are stopping in, too, as are the downy woodpeckers. Most of those other species weren't around much when the mob of blackbirds was heavy. Now, they're back, eating their fill.
Same cycle as last year, and the year before. There is always something to see at the feeder, even in the depths of winter.
Chipper Chat
(10,718 posts)They nest every spring in my lakefront cattails. My neighbors want me to cut the cattails down so their view of the lake is better but I won't do it.
MineralMan
(150,436 posts)They're noisy and bratty to other birds, but they're fun.
This year, we were also lucky enough to have a pair of yellow-headed blackbirds show up at our feeder for a few days. I had never seen those before.
Botany
(76,108 posts)
.. years since I have seen one.

Btw I have been seeing far fewer native, pollinators, insects, reptiles, amphibians, song birds too. Plenty
of junk birds house sparrows, pigeons, starlings, and other non native birds too.
Btw this is the first year I didnt see the little native cellophane bee that is a pollinator for the native alum root (Heuchera
richardsonii) I have in my garden.
blue_jay
(168 posts)Rebl2
(17,265 posts)a variety of birds in our yard, but we also feed them. About the only time we dont have them is when a hawk hangs out in our yard.
hunter
(40,292 posts)... sometimes I'll go out and look in the trees.
More often than not I'll see a hawk.
ForgedCrank
(2,998 posts)there is an abundance of wildlife of all kinds, including songbirds. Unlike 30 years ago, we are over-run with fox, pheasant, wild turkey, deer, the list is quite long. Even fishing has improved dramatically. Unfortunately, we also have a lot of coyotes now, something that I never saw even once when I was a kid.
calimary
(88,711 posts)Very scary.
3catwoman3
(28,390 posts)We have sparrows, house finches, purple finches, chickadees, gold finches, robins, mourning doves, downy woodpeckers, red bellied woodpeckers, redwing blackbirds, grackles, starlings and cardinals. Also a hummingbird feeder that has one tiny female visitor - maybe 2, but she/they move so fast it's hard to tell if it's the same one every time.
We have a no waste feeder, a nyger seed feeder, and a suet feeder. as well as a birdbath. And, this year, we have mixed wildflowers that took forever to bloom, but are providing a riot of color.
And, a few weeks ago, while crossing our street on the way back home from visiting a neighbor, I was surprised by a fox standing right nest to the apron of her driveway.
madwivoter
(543 posts)We noticed a decline in our area around July 25 - it coincided with the Canadian wildfire smoke that has been drifting into the state for the last couple of years.
I normally fill our two birdbaths several times a day, now I'm down to freshening them up in the morning and evening - but it's really not necessary. I make sure they're full of fresh water in case any of the birds decide to swing back through.
We're mostly missing the robins and orioles. The orioles were a sweet surprise this spring, they were nesting close by.
Still seeing plenty of finch, bluejays, and crows. We saw a morning dove at the bath yesterday morning.
Lots of hummingbirds and deer (who take advantage of getting a little drink at the birdbaths overnight). The turkey-borg hord is plentiful
Peeked out the back window last night and saw a baby deer nursing with her momma, very sweet.
I miss my dirty birdies!
republianmushroom
(22,122 posts)Wild pigs with blue meat found in California, officials sound alarm
https://www.kxan.com/news/wild-pigs-with-blue-meat-found-in-california-officials-sound-alarm/
catchnrelease
(2,119 posts)Besides the rodenticide secondary poisoning of the predators, hawks, owls, mtn lion, etc. The rest of that stuff wipes out the insect populations that provide food for the birds. Even the seed eaters feed bugs to their chicks when they're nestlings. So the bird populations are starving to death.
I've had several 'discussions' on my front porch with the pesticide salesmen that come door to door here. (SoCal) They are SO persistant--oh this spray is organic, or it won't harm the butterflies, it just kills spiders. I say that I want the spiders, and everything else that's in my all native front yard. It's feeding the birds! Just last week I had to literally close the door on the guy that would not stop talking, trying to sell me on his product. I had already repeated several times that I was not interested and I want the insects to be out there! Argh!!
bif
(26,546 posts)It's business as usual. Actually there are more butterflies than usual this summer.
justaprogressive
(6,127 posts)maxsolomon
(38,036 posts)She has let her property return to nature rather than farm it. It sounds like a jungle most mornings and evenings.
My Dad lives in a Cincy suburb where there are endless acres of manicured lawn. The most common sound is mowing and overhead jets.
Nature can't thrive when there's nothing to eat.
Bayard
(28,200 posts)Not much now. Tons of goldfinches, wrens, titmice, purple finches, cardinals, woodpeckers, bluejays, and a few mourning doves then. We put up new gourds for the swallows by the pond. They didn't go for them, and they usually have a couple broods. Not many hummers on the feeders.
Still have some deer, but not much since the 200 acres next door was sold to a developer, (heartbreaking for multiple reasons.) Still seeing a few, and some foxes on the trail cams. Been having a real problem with raccoons and possums. Trapped a bunch, but lost some chickens.
No more coyotes, thank goodness. Wondering if we could get some ducks again on the pond.
The big flower garden always attracts plenty of butterflies, but not as many this year. Saw only one Monarch, and we have both butterfly weed and milkweed.
Definitely not Nature's business as usual.
MorbidButterflyTat
(4,029 posts)but here in western New York it's been really hot and humid and hasn't rained in what seems like months. Grass and other greenery is dry and brown. I've noticed less birds around on these awful hot days and imagine they're taking a siesta in the shade.
Usually though I've got lots of birds at my feeders and lots taking advantage of their water dishes!
It makes me laugh when a squirrel or bird comes to get a drink after another bird has just taken a bath! Ew!
Wanderlust988
(712 posts)I honestly couldn't careless about birds.
flamingdem
(40,768 posts)Titmouse, finches, sparrows, mockingbirds.
So few now. Lots of crows though.
IbogaProject
(5,511 posts)Pesticides and herbicides have lowered the food supply to these birds. I saw a paper about how much insect life have diminished over the time since the late 1980s, and hear stories about how many more bugs there were back in the 1950s. Rachel Carson wrote a book about it Silent Spring.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,324 posts)But I also love birds
Cat stays in the house goes out with me on a leash or in a cat backpack He will not go outside because he learned very early when the door knocks or opens he is to go to the bedroom until I call him back out.
Birds are safe in my yard.
IbogaProject
(5,511 posts)They really are murderous they kill beyond any need for food. They especially like hunting birds.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,324 posts)Not murderers.
People who kill cats because they are predators are murderers.
Cats do what they are made to do you are pissed because they are good at what they do. Dont blame cats blame evolution.
LT Barclay
(3,161 posts)blue_jay
(168 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 13, 2025, 05:44 PM - Edit history (1)
and have watched as species are forced to move to smaller and smaller swaths of trees when their homes are clear cut for builders like DR Horton and see that remaining swath decimated kind of like when farm animals eat pastures. I also watch the change in wind patterns after the loss of those trees and the damage to the trees that used to be protected. Winds get gustier and more destructive since trees are not yet strengthened for the wind exposure and are damaged by the severe weather ups and downs and rains.
I also have been privy to watching a local green belt for the past half decade, season to season with changes in insect population and damage to trees from the varied weather of extreme heat, drought and extreme cold over the past several years. It has gone from being swarmed by mosquitos with at least a dozen squirrels (it's a relatively small greenbelt) and probably more bunnies to just a sighting here and there. I often hear the coyotes late at night when they catch their prey. Breaks my heart but I know it's the "circle of life".
The bird population seems less this year here. There used to be at least a hundred various species of chickadees and a decent amount of hummingbirds. The deep freeze killed some and the local "outdoor" cats (ostensibly for mouse control in these here parts) have likely killed quite a few. They killed (dept of ecology or something like that) off a bunch of barred owls and I have only seen one and possibly one owlet this year (still barred versus the native spotted). We also get some pine birds, towhees, flickers, sparrows, other woodpeckers, less stellar jays, possibly more crows, and only 1 eagle sighting.
The insect population is down too, have seen one yellow butterfly and 2-3 blue dragon flies. Many many less moths, more spiders, less flies, less mosquitos, more tiny flying insects and more spider this year. No ladybugs in sight the past 2 years, a few pill bugs, black beetles, occasional cricket, one frog, a couple earwigs, one or two marmorated stink bugs, one carpenter ant, a few bumble bees and wasps, I could go on but each is less than I've noticed in past years. I will be watching next year to see how the cycle goes from here. I'm sure it is different in all areas and microclimates. We can only share what we each observe where ever we are and try to deduce the bigger picture.
I for one, will do what I can control and keep planting more plants and flowers and covering bare ground where and when I can.
BurnDoubt
(1,323 posts)When we did our garden we installed a fountain and the birds came. We spent hours mesmerized by their comings-and-goings and their antics.
Now, when I see a bird, or a butterfly, I call out to let people know, and feel like I should call the News.
"Silent Spring" Is a Thing!!!!!!!!
We have officially shit in our helmet.
Nice goin'.
catchnrelease
(2,119 posts)I'd had feeders out and small bowls of water in the past, and there were some birds around. But several years ago I put up a home made 'fountain' that has a shallow dish for birds to bathe in. It was like in the movie Field of Dreams--if you build it they will come. Wow, did they ever. And I'm in suburban SoCal. In the Spring especially there are always new species coming through. Nothing like a mob of 12+ Bushtits all splashing at once. Or the local hummer trying to chase the bigger birds away from his spot.
BurnDoubt
(1,323 posts)I live in Sacramento, and ag land is all around us. When I was a young driver, fifty orbits ago, we had to wash the car after a twenty-mile trip from Woodland to Sacramento because the car was literally plastered with insects. Now, you can count them on two hands.
"Silent Spring" is adjacent in our environs, and we're moving at break-neck speed to its conclusion.
catchnrelease
(2,119 posts)I do remember what you describe, driving out in the rural areas of the 5/101 or 395 years ago. Windshield covered in smashed bugs. I've driven those same roads frequently in the last, say 10 years and noticed it. Where are all of the insects??? I have no doubt it's because of the spraying of pesticides etc. Such a visible example of what's happening. But if you never experienced it in the past you wouldn't miss it now. Maybe not even believe it was like that.
I just try to keep my little patch of CA as welcoming to the natural inhabitants as I can, bugs and all.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,324 posts)Sisters boyfriends on his motorcycle and the bugs bouncing off of us it kinda stung on bare skin and getting in our hair (no helmet laws yet) now there are no bugs when I ride with my friends on thier bikes now.
Exp
(723 posts)KT2000
(21,871 posts)posted a picture of an unusual insect she found in her home. There was a discussion of what it was, all innocuous, and her response was that she was going to hire a pest control company to spray her yard and home. We live in a rural area.
So much ignorance is killing us all.
Tom Dyer
(325 posts)Im a New Orleanian living in Panama. This song punched me in the gut. And the Katrina anniversary is coming up.
Thinking of all who were there.
We got this???❤️❤️❤️
Nigrum Cattus
(1,155 posts)LilElf70
(1,310 posts)may have decreased in population. Skeeters remain forever........ At least it seems that way.
Fresh_Start
(11,356 posts)and maybe we can make a difference. My moment of recognition was June 2023...I had just refinished my pool...sitting outside and noticing there were no butterflies.
I had plants and flowers from front to back of property....but virtually no native plants.
Started after I recognized the problem...added 200+ native plants including milkweed...picked plants which were either butterfly hosts or provided food for birds...
Property is turning around...have definitely increased bird populations...but still only handful of butterflies each day.
But I knew it would take at least 3 years....to see improvement.
One thing that gives me hope is when I go to native plant nurseries....they have butterflies and caterpillers.
Of course, they've been doing it for years longer than I have....so it is possible.
Ocelot II
(128,633 posts)all spring and summer, and the bird sanctuary near me was really noisy in May and June. I guess it must be a regional situation.
FoxNewsSucks
(11,475 posts)I've noticed that there are fewer birds. And far fewer insects.
In June, we were working around Salina, and one evening part of my group was out on the back porch of an AirBnB. There was a large number of songbirds and we sat listening for a while. Because it has become unusual. I remember 30 years ago being annoyed that if I left the windows open at night, the birds would wake me up early. Not any more.
A few years back, Thom Hartmann related a story from an OTR trucker that he'd noticed less need to clean his windshield. When I heard that discussion, I realized the same thing, but hadn't noticed it happen. In the 80's & 90's, there were many times that I not only had to clean the windshield at each fill-up, but stop once or twice between fill-ups just to clean the windshield. I remember once almost not making it to the exit because there were so many bugs the entire windshield of my car was coated. Not just a few splotches, but entirely coated.
Not any more. I rarely need to use the gas station squeegee these days. There are very few bugs.
Also, I hate those orb-weaver spiders. The ones that weave huge webs that can go from ground to overhead powerline and across the entire sidewalk. I had to keep watch for them when I take my dog for her after-dinner poop walk. 3-4 years ago, I noticed the spiders were gone. That same year, I also noticed the clouds of bugs which formerly swarmed every single streetlight were gone. Maybe 2-3 bugs per light remained.
Here, and other places, I think the birds and spiders are mostly gone for the simple reason that there is little for them to eat.
Humans have overbred and destroyed the environment. The planet will go on, but not with an environment that sustains life as we know it
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,324 posts)Years ago flocks of birds would take like an hour to pass over your house during migration it was mostly starlings but
I remember reading silent spring when I was young it scared the fuck out of me. The idea of no more birds .Now its happening and its not just dioxin.
Maybe saw 10 crows, two songbirds a lonely seagull a wren at a birdfeeder heard one bird singing yesterday while I was walking and just felt profoundly sad. These are the birds I have seen this summer so far. Birdsongs used to be like a background soundtrack during the summer.
And I remember waking up to birdsongs because summers were not this miserable and it cooled off at night so we slept with the windows open and this was in Maryland. We didnt get an air conditioner until like 1978. The birds were so loud at the asscrack of dawn there was no sleeping.Add in my pet rooster crowing his heart out sleeping was hopeless.
Ziggysmom
(3,990 posts)I miss seeing the big fuzzy bees dotted with pollen.
Glamrock
(12,003 posts)Seems like much the same as usual in NW Indiana. Songbirds, squirrels, chipmunks, mice, possums, raccoons, groundhogs, hummingbirds, hawks(you can tell, it goes completely silent outside when they perch!) only thing Ive noticed on the Indiana/Michigan border is less butterflies and lightning bugs.
jfz9580m
(16,360 posts)I have felt in recent years that wildlife rhythms in general sound a bit off..but it is so hard to tell if that sort of thing is merely in your head or real. Not just birds, chipmunks alarm calling, cicadas, insects..
But you really can never be sure that its not your head processing sound differently.
And one has to be careful because if stupid shit like this:
https://www.audubon.org/news/no-5g-radio-waves-do-not-kill-birds
Here's the truth behind a Facebook falsehood spreading across the internet.
On the internet, there is often a fine line between a healthy skepticism of new technologies and blatant misinformation. The recent claim that the radio waves from 5G cellular communication towers are causing mass bird die-offs is a perfect example of just how thin that line can beand how quickly falsehoods can spread across Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and even in the comments of Audubon magazine's stories.
The origin of this claim is as head-spinning as it is instructive, so let's untangle the knot: Does 5G really kill birds, and if not, why are so many people shouting about it online?
The first part of this saga is fairly straightforward: No, 5Gthe fifth generation of our mobile cellular networkdoes not kill birds. Radio wave emissions above 10 MHz from radio transmission antennas (including cell telephone towers) are not known to harm birds, says Joe Kirschvink, a biophysicist at the California Institute of Technology who specializes in magnetics, in an email.
Krischvink isnt just an expert on such mattershe was also involved in a related study that has proven prescient. In 2014, Kirschvink, at the same time as another group of biologists in Germany, found that low-level magnetic radiation, such as AM radio waves, could interfere with migratory birds' ability to orient themselves using the Earth's magnetic field. Although the researchers found that the birds were still able to compensate, they proposed restricting the use of the AM frequency band.
Aware of how this research and the resulting proposal might be interpreted by the general public, Kirschvink issued a strong disclaimer in his study: Modern-day charlatans will undoubtedly seize on this study as an argument for banning the use of mobile phones, despite the different frequency bands involved, he wrote.
Despite Kirschvink's clear warning, the claims that cellular radio waves kill birds spread nonetheless. The blame for that, however, doesn't fall on Kirschvink and his peers, but rather one UFO researcher posting on Facebook.
The "5G kills birds" phenomenon was started by John Kuhles, who according to the fact-checking site Snopes, runs several anti-5G conspiracy websites and social media pages. In a Facebook post last year, Kuhles claimed that a recent mass die-off of European Starlings in the Netherlands was caused by a 5G antenna test. Despite the fact that the local municipality never named a cause for the die-off, and the fact that the test Kuhles cites happened months before the die-off occurred, other Facebook pages and health blogs nonetheless picked up the post.
Things got weirder and even more obfuscated when Indian sci-fi blockbuster 2.0, currently the highest-budgeted Tamil-language film ever made, hit cinemas just days later. Apart from being a parable about how technology is ruining our lives, 2.0 specifically depicts electromagnetic radiation from cell towers wiping out bird populations, validating Kuhles' crackpot theory. Following the release of 2.0, which revolves around a plot depicting harmful effects of EMF radiation on birds, Indian news organisations, mostly Tamil media, published stories on the movie by adding the birds died in The Netherlands due to 5G bit, reported Indian fact-checking outlet Alt News.
Of course, it didn't stop there.
Of course, it didn't stop there. Fans of 2.0 then found a 2012 YouTube video in which University of Southern California professor Travis Longcore discusses his study finding that communication towers kill 6.8 million birds annually. Dozens of comments on the video either cite the movie directly, or mention that 2.0's director, S. Shankar, sent them here." Contrary to 2.0's plot, however, Longcore's research attributed these bird deaths to the disorienting lights used on communication towers, not the electromagnetic radiation they emit.
People have observed for a very long time that nocturnally migrating birds are attracted to lights at night and it's exacerbated during periods of bad weather, he told NPR in 2012. It leaves them circling these towers that they encounter and running into either the guide wires on the towers, each other, ending up on the ground and taken by predators.
Further fueling the 5G flames is a general anxiety around electromagnetic radiation that has been on the rise for the past two decades. Not unlike the claims that 5G kills birds, these fears are also unfounded, stemming from a misinterpretation of a single chart in a 2000 report on the potential health impacts of installing WiFi networks in Florida's Broward County Public Schools, the New York Times reported earlier this year.
Consulting with the school district, physicist Bill Curry cited a chart showing that brain tissue absorbs more radiation as radio frequency increases, thus concluding that WiFi signals, operating in the Ghz spectrum would be hazardous. He was wrong. According to the Times, as radio frequencies increase, our skin blocks them out, making radio waves safer as they increase in frequency (to a certain point). Unfortunately, no one caught Curry's error.
Over the years, Dr. Currys warning spread far, resonating with educators, consumers and entire cities as the frequencies of cellphones, cell towers and wireless local networks rose, the Times reports. To no small degree, the blossoming anxiety over the professed health risks of 5G technology can be traced to a single scientist and a single chart.
Taken together, its a strange and worrisome sequence of events that leads us to 5G being blamed for bird die-offs, but its also typical of how misinformation spreads on the internet: an urgent headline, backed by a series of half-truths and misinterpretations, validated by popular culture, and amplified and laundered repeatedly through social media posts.
Fortunately, unlike many other conspiracy theories and misinformation campaigns ricocheting around the web, this one doesnt pose direct harm to anyone or anything. But how the 5G myth and others like it can still cause damage is by distracting people from the many real and urgent threats facing birds and the environment. After all, there are enough of those that we dont need to make up any new ones.
It is true that electronics noise does disrupt birds:
https://www.science.org/content/article/electronic-smog-disorients-european-robins
Migratory birds thrown off by AM radio waves
The traffic reports on AM radio might help humans navigate, but the electromagnetic waves they travel on could have the opposite effect on birds. A 7-year investigation has discovered that radio waves disrupt the piloting systems of migratory European robins. The work, experts say, provides convincing evidence that such transmissions can alter animal behavior.
For decades, people have feared that cellphones, power lines, and other sources of electromagnetic radiation might harm both human health and nature. But don't fret. Your cellphones are still safe to use in the wild. "Modern-day charlatans will try to exploit this study to claim that cellphone radiation causes damage, but it's not screwing up the robins," says geobiologist Joseph Kirschvink of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, who was not involved in the study. "It's telling them to use a different sense."
European robins, like many migratory birds, can navigate via Earth's magnetic fieldsbut they don't have to. Scientists have known for 30 years that robins' magnetosense deactivates when it might lead them astray, for instance if they hit a spot where Earth's geomagnetic field dramatically changes strength. Low-intensity radio waves now join this group of negative triggers.
Biologists at the University of Oldenburg in Germany stumbled upon the phenomenon by accident in 2004 while they were testing a basic feature of European robin behavior. During the spring and autumn, the birds' urge to travel is so strong that captured individuals will reflexively start jumping in the direction of their migration, even scratching up the bottom of their cages. But when the robins were held in wooden huts on campus, they were suddenly clueless as to which way they were supposed to be going.
So the researchers started experimenting to see why the birds' compasses appeared to have shut off. Change their food? No difference. Tweak their sleep cycles with artificial lighting? Nada. Finally, they started wondering if the magnetic fields produced by electronic devices on campus might be the culprit.
To find out, the researchers installed aluminum wallpaper inside the birds' wooden huts. The metal sidings were linked by means of wires to metal rods buried in the dirt outside. When electromagnetic noise struck the aluminum, it was soaked up and passed into the land. Known as "grounding," this canceled out the electromagnetic noise coming through the huts' walls, leaving a signal from only Earth's magnetic field. After the screens were built, the robins aligned in the right direction, the team reports online today in Nature. But when the shields were switched off, the birds became disoriented again.
Given the skepticism surrounding prior research into electromagnetic noise and animal habits, the project leaders used double-blind experiments to replicate the finding. Undergraduate and graduate volunteers ran the trials. Some worked in wooden huts with the shields turned on, while others had them offbut to eliminate bias, the students didn't know who was working where.
"We added a number of securities to protect ourselves from wishful thinking," says neurosensory biologist Henrik Mouritsen of the University of Oldenburg, who led the study. "The conditions were repeated with different generations of students, and experiments were blinded on all levels."
Artificially reintroducing magnetic fields into a screened hut allowed the researchers to pinpoint possible sources of the misguiding noise. The most disorienting electromagnetic noise had frequencies matching those produced by AM radio stations and small devices like electronic article surveillancethose little magnetic tags for clothing at department stores. This is 1000 times less powerful than the frequencies emitted by cellphones and 400 times higher than those produced by power lines. Moving the birds to a rural location without electronic noise immediately restored their navigation skills.
European migratory bird populations are declining. Though habitat destruction is the main suspect, the findings raise questions as to whether humanmade electromagnetic pollution from radio stations and home electronics is a general problem across Europe, or if this phenomenon is specific to Oldenburg.
"I just wonder where this strong field originates," says retired zoologist Roswitha Wiltschko, who co-discovered the avian magnetic compass with her husband Wolfgang in the 1970s and who was not involved in the work. "We were doing these experiments in the central district of Frankfurt, a major city, and we never had problems with magnetic fields disrupting the orientation of our birds." Wiltschko feels the study is "really well done" but thinks more research is needed before claiming that this is a general occurrence.
If it is, the effect should be short-ranged and limited to within 5 to 10 km of AM stations, says Kirschvink, who thinks that birds may have evolved this off switch for their magnetic compass long before Guglielmo Marconi invented the radio in order to combat radiation fluxes created by the sun's activity.
On a different head, the street traffic on my street has been obnoxiously heavy lately. I live in a very corrupt communist state in the Global South where the govt has caused many environmental disasters in the name of development. So I wouldnt put it past these corrupt creeps to do bogus traffic studies etc deploying bots and AI etc.
Its one thing if its studies like those done by Mouritsen.
And this seems respectable enough:
https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2022/11/10/worlds-largest-open-track-traffic-experiment-being-conducted-in-nashville-nov-14-18/
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Nov 10, 2022, 3:00 PM
The CIRCLES Consortium, consisting of Vanderbilt University and several other universities, in coordination with Nissan North America, Toyota, GM, and the Tennessee Department of Transportation, will test 100 AI-equipped vehicles in an effort to mitigate human-caused traffic jams.
The experiments are scheduled to occur along a four-mile stretch of I-24 starting on Monday, Nov. 14 through Friday, Nov. 18, 2022, between the hours of 5 a.m. and 10:30 a.m., integrated into the normal flow of traffic.
The I-24 MOTION testbed, where the AI-equipped vehicles will travel in the normal flow of traffic, is the only automotive testing environment of its kind in the U.S. It is opening in fall 2022 and is equipped with 300 4K digital sensors that are mounted on poles spaced 600 feet apart. The system generates data on the 260,000,000 vehicle-miles of traffic that occurs annually within the testbed.
In this experiment, researchers from the CIRCLES Consortium will deploy up to 100 vehicles, comprised of Nissan Rogue, Toyota RAV4 and a Cadillac XT5, that each include an AI-equipped adaptive cruise control technology used in an earlier experiment.
In that testconducted with 20 cars on a closed trackjust one vehicle equipped with the AI system changed the driving behavior of the other 20 cars, alleviating the stop-and-go dynamic that often leads to traffic jams with no obvious cause. Because of the ripple effects that the AI-equipped cars had on other drivers, researchers measured a sizeable fuel savings compared with driving in typical traffic jams.
As researchers increase the scale of the testing and introduce real world driving conditions, they will investigate whether the improved traffic and fuel-economy outcomes measured in the smaller study continue to hold.
This research is supported by the National Science Foundation, as well as the U.S. Departments of Transportation and Energy. Support was also provided by Toyota North America and General Motors.
But based on my experiences here I wouldnt want any such experiments with birds or traffic conducted in this region without public comment as well as strict oversight by respectable scientists like Mouritsen or say Madhav Gadgil who wrote this report on the Western ghats in India which were completely disregarded.
I do not trust the government let alone the private sector where I live. And would expect to find a self-dealing shill who enables encroachment into living spaces ignoring the effects on wildlife and human health with corrupt, inept deployment of technology.
I wouldnt want any of it in or near my home or on my street. This is not Germany or the US and politics aside its pretty corrrupt and this cartoon in the Indiatimes gets it:

Based on my experiences locally with the kinds of people who do these shady, creepy real world experiments, whether its tech or the humans deploying the tech, data or exploitation of the street and residences, it should not be conducted without explicit consent and certainly it would be a hard no from me were my neighborhood, streets and home involved.
I was sexually harassed multiple times by a defence contractor with a Lockheed Martin contact in 2014, creeps on the street starting from 2023. Nothing I have seen here would indicate the data science, AI or other work, studies like Mouritsens or traffic studies conducted here would be anything but corrupt.
Trashman272
(16 posts)1.4 to 3.7 billion birds every year in the U.S. Thats a big part of it.
jfz9580m
(16,360 posts)And overconsumption is the other big driver.
Factory farmed meat is a huge contributor to climate change.
Population explosion across the globe and increasing destruction of wild spaces and a growing middle class consuming at the rates that are common in the Global North the works over
You cant burden a finite planet with 8 fucking billion people, a growing percentage of which buys cars, eats factory farmed meat, destroys habitats, without it affecting biodiversity overall:
https://populationconnection.org/why-population/biodiversity-loss/
RandomNumbers
(19,035 posts)54 years after Diet for a Small Planet, humans are still eating too much meat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diet_for_a_Small_Planet
But that said ... (as you said) "8 fucking billion people" are going to cause problems even if all of us ate a lot less meat. We do too many other things that harm the ecosystem, and 8 fucking billion of us aren't going to all just stop doing stuff we like doing.
FoxNewsSucks
(11,475 posts)Haven't cats always killed birds?
William Gustafson
(526 posts)Four years ago, after my wife passed, I started growing flowers. I have grown veggies all my life, but flowers has been a new thing to me...
Since then, I have seen more bugs, bees and birds than I have seen in years...
Being I'm a photographer, it give me a lot of pictures of flowers and insects through the summer. The Birds and Bats feed off the insects and nectar of the flowers along with the seeds that comes in the fall...
I hope this helps....
pansypoo53219
(22,815 posts)Figarosmom
(9,395 posts)There was a owl living in a giant hedge of yes next door and I think that's why. This year everything has returned. I like the birds and butterflies but hate the rodents and raccoons. I have a mole that I like too, he eats all the grubs and other bad bugs.
punguin54
(64 posts)underpants
(194,314 posts)One of my favorite made up conspiracy theories