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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCrewman from a WW2 German U-Boat has words we should ponder
Part of my recent trip to Chicago was visiting their fabulous Museum of Science and Industry.
I had never even heard of it, the Shedd Aquarium and the Field Museum being much more famous.
I was not part of the decision making process on what we would visit (not my circus, not my monkeys! Haha!).
But I have no regrets! The Museum of Science and Industry was fantastic!
The highlight for me, though, was their ACTUAL WW2 U-Boat the U-505, fully intact and lovingly restored to original specs.
It is the ONLY surviving, intact u-boat from the German fleet, as the rest all are rusting in their watery graves.
A unique set of circumstances caused this u-boat to be captured during the war with only one fatality on the German side, and then towed to Bermuda where it was analyzed and helped to win the war for the Allies.
By the way, the crew (minus the one fatality) were taken to a top-secret location in Louisiana for the duration of the war. No information on the capture of the boat or crew was released until after the war. This was a direct violation of Geneva Conventions. The Germans assumed the sub had sunk and notified all the families that their servicemen were most likely dead.
Anyway.....ten years after her capture, she was towed to the Chicago museum where she has been ever since. Touring the inside is an upcharge from the standard museum admission, but well worth it! Nothing has been altered except a large door cut in her side so that tours don't have to enter from the top hatch.
One of the crewmen from the u-boat wrote his autobiography shortly before his death in the late 90s. I bought a copy in the museum gift store because I was so fascinated by the tour.
He tells the painful, unvarnished truth in all matters, only changing some names to protect some other crew members. He felt it was important, even when it cast him in a bad light, that the truth in all things be known.
I thought some of his statements are very pertinent for us now, so I'm quoting him here: Hans Goebeler, crewman of the U-505
"It was at this time a politician appeared who promised to solve our nation's problems; give food and work to the unemployed, regain our lost territory, reestablish safety in the streets, and restore dignity and honor to our people. We would have voted for such a man if his name were Schmidt or Meyer; his name just happened to be Hitler."
Hitler came to power in his young teens, and he enthusiastically joined the Hitler Youth.
"The Hitler Youth's emphasis on patriotism, loyalty, and sacrifice fit in perfectly with the values my father instilled in me. Little did we suspect that these same qualities would compel our nation to follow Hitler over the precipice to disaster."
A little later, he describes the aftermath of their first "kill", a British freighter called the Ben Mohr:
"By 2347 hours, there was nothing left floating on the surface except the lifeboats and a curious assortment of debris. We were so close to our target that we could plainly see the survivors huddled in the boats. We were relieved that no one appeared to be injured. It may seem strange, but despite our countries being traditional enemies, we felt no hatred toward the British seamen. We were fascinated by the awesome destruction we had wrought, but we had no desire to see our brother sailors harmed. In a way, it was like watching an automobile race: one loves to see a good crash, but at the same time hopes that no one gets hurt."
One final paragraph, so not to exceed copyright! This is from a bit later, and they've made several "kills" by now. This one is a Dutch merchant vessel the Alpaca.
"Lowe (the u-boat captain) maneuvered our boat close to the lifeboats to render aid. ***snip*** The survivors had escaped from the sinking ship without casualties, and their lifeboats were well provisioned with supplies. Our skipper's conversation with the survivors, in English and German, was remarkably cordial given the circumstances. The Dutch crew thanked us for our help, and even wished us bon voyage! As we left the area, we pondered the irony of fate that had pitted our country against such a friendly people who spoke our own language."
Dutch, of course, is a Germanic language, as is English.
So why am I posting all this?
1. I think it is a sobering reminder that when someone tells you, "I alone can fix it!" People will fall for it. Even smart, well-intentioned people. However, one critical difference is that Trump cultists now choose to follow him KNOWING his atrocities and evil intentions. For the Germans, once Hitler was in power, he was never removed, until the bitter end.
2. I want to promote history in general and this fascinating, surviving relic in Chicago.
3. The US knowingly and intentionally broke the Geneva Conventions in WW2, when it was in our interests. Did the ends justify the means? I don't have the answer. I'm just glad the decision wasn't mine.
If you've made it this far, thanks for reading!!
erronis
(22,283 posts)It is the armchair generals and people that can profit from militarization and killing. Then, and now.
I've been promising myself that I would re-watch Das Boot (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Boot). It will require steeling myself again.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)I'll be quite honest: submarines give me the screaming willies! I cannot imagine serving on one. Touring the U-505 did nothing to dispel this.
Hans Gobeler writes that it really takes a combination of both physical and mental toughness.
Here's another quote from him:
"Over time, we learned what special strengths and weaknesses each one of us had, and organized ourselves accordingly. For instance, one of my good friends was a perfect seaman during normal conditions. I mean he was ABSOLUTELY perfect, and was a great asset to our crew. But as soon as the depth charges began exploding, he became totally useless. We all knew this, so someone automatically took over his duties when things got rough. I think it was this intimate knowledge of each other's individual capabilities that helped us survive the challenges we met later on, even under different skippers."
mitch96
(15,576 posts)Last edited Thu Aug 14, 2025, 05:04 PM - Edit history (1)
USS Drum, a WW2 Gato class submarine. Holy moly was that a small tight space..Especially coming off the battleship Alabama docked next to it.. Big boat, little boat.
The survival rate of German and US submariners was not to good.
Very sobering statement from the German sailor. As Mark Twain said
History Doesn't Repeat Itself, but It Often Rhymes
I hope we learn from history and this sailors realizations. I fear for our country...
m
Coventina
(29,044 posts)The book begins with them:
"Out of the approximately 37,000 trained U-boat crew members in World War II, only about 6,000 survived the war to return safely to their homes in Germany."
mitch96
(15,576 posts)The US submarine service took the largest casualty rate... About 20% give or take..
Bomber crews in Europe took horrible losses..
War truly sucks and we as humans just don't stop doing it..
m
Coventina
(29,044 posts)We never learn, in spite of our large brains.
We are going to destroy this planet, we know it, but we do nothing.
soldierant
(9,223 posts)Sapiens overcame and disappeared Neanderthalensis because we were meaner and more ruthless. And also, somehow, more prone to a worldview made up of different grouos, and to the idea that one and only one of those groups could be best.
We did not totally eradicate Neanderthalensis - we absorbed some - there are homo sapiens alive today who retain a small amount of Neanderthal DNA. I've never been tested, but if I were one, and knew it, I would be proud.
mitch96
(15,576 posts)Every living thing on this planet might not make it though...
m
dixiegrrrrl
(60,136 posts)Very worth seeing.
John1956PA
(4,683 posts)I can not remember how many minutes that it runs.
Also, I watched the DVD bonus feature showing Director Wolfgang Peterson commenting on the scenes.
The scene wherein the Captain and the First Officer (I think) exit the sub and are transported up the cliff of Gibraltar (I think) to an elegant party reminds me of the stop which the "Apocalypse Now" crew made at a the rubber tree plantation on the way up river to attack Colonial Kurtz.
The "Das Boot" scene which I remember best occurs near the beginning of the film at the party the evening before the crew sets out. A drunken crew member unloads his sidearm at someone running up the set of stairs to the second floor. The plaster exploding outward from the bullet holes in the wall just behind the person running up the stairs is a nice touch.
As an aside, I have seen video of Director Peterson being interviewed in the past ten years. He strikes me a a good-natured person.
WarGamer
(18,200 posts)And of course the victors write the history and war crimes are something "only" the bad guys commit.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)I don't remember the exact signage, but I came away with the impression the U-505 was the only one.
I'm glad the Germans have one. They deserve to have their history, after all!
Response to Coventina (Reply #4)
WarGamer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Aristus
(71,453 posts)The one in Kiel, Germany is a Type IX, also the only one of its kind in the world.
I highly recommend watching "Das Boot"; watch the longest version you can get a hold of. There are long stretches in it that are pretty boring, but give a good idea of what life was like aboard a German attack submarine. Watch it in German, but with English subtitles. Here's why: There are two very amusing scenes in the film related to the sub captain and his favorite song: "It's A Long Way To Tipperary". It's jarring to go from hearing nothing but German to hearing this impeccably English song on the soundtrack. Also, another sub captain, at a party at a brothel near the beginning of the film, inexplicably bursts into English for one single line: "I am too drunk to f**k!" A few moments of surprised levity in a grim film.
Another interesting piece of trivia; Every one of the German actors with a speaking role was able to speak English fluently. So when it came time for the film to be dubbed into English, each actor dubbed his own role. Plus, German and English are syntactically similar enough that there's very little spoken-word-to-lip-movement incongruities.
Enjoy!
Coventina
(29,044 posts)Hans Goebeler talks about how much they enjoyed the phonograph player on the sub.
eppur_se_muova
(40,701 posts)Radio operators were ordered to destroy their code books even when the sub was headed to the bottom; this one failed to follow orders. The Germans eventually realized that their transmissions were being decoded, and changed all their codes. But the Allies had gained the upper hand over the Kriegsmarine and never gave it back.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)that the Allies were behind in developing.
The Germans tried to scuttle the ship, but carelessly left the "plug" lid beside the drain, instead of throwing it overboard as they abandoned the sub.
That one "oops" made all the difference.
eppur_se_muova
(40,701 posts)there was more than one version of Enigma, and the last version was really hard to break. The captured machines probably were involved in that, but I don't remember for certain.
Liberal In Texas
(15,882 posts)I was there as a young teen, probably early 60s. I remember the 505 and the cramped walk through. At the time the sub was half out of the building and half in. IIRC, you could see one side of it driving down Lake Shore Dr. I'm glad they've built a suitable enclosure and done some restoration since I was there.
The coal mine exhibit was also memorable.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)I had the Devo song in my head the whole time!
It was really fun, especially the mine train!
BidenRocks
(2,629 posts)Parked outside next to train locomotives and cars. About 1965.
I remember the coelacanth by the cafeteria.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)I didn't see the coelacanth!
I would have loved that!
WinstonSmith4740
(3,408 posts)I was a young adult in Chicago in the early 70's, and enjoyed ALL of the great museums and attractions there. And believe it or not, it was all free. You paid extra for stuff like the submarine, but other than that, you walked in. Same thing with the Lincoln Park Zoo. BTW, did you see Colleen Moore's dollhouse?
Coventina
(29,044 posts)So, the kiddos went to the castle while we did cars and space.
They now have a whole room devoted to Space-X
murielm99
(32,571 posts)The Art Institute is another good one. They have an impressive collection of Impressionist paintings. For some reason, they knew early on that those would be worth collecting.
JT45242
(3,788 posts)Thanks for the book except.
I would say that it was definitely worth the upcharge to go through and walk through the u boat.
TnDem
(1,390 posts)Not just this one...Two are on display in Germany, and one more in the UK.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)Please provide more details if you can!
I'm really fascinated by this whole topic!
TnDem
(1,390 posts)When a Kriegsmarine UBoat dropped Nazi saboteurs off the coast of Jacksonville Florida and and another one dropped spies off of Long Island NY....The had $175,000 in cash and explosives. They were all caught and sent to the electric chair as spies.
UBoats also sunk 6-7 ships right off the Florida coast during WW2, as they prowled in the Atlantic so close they could see the lights of NY and Miami.
BidenRocks
(2,629 posts)Pearl Harbor?
TnDem
(1,390 posts)1942 I believe...Operation Pastorius was the German codename
BidenRocks
(2,629 posts)DinahMoeHum
(23,301 posts)Shortly after landing in the US, 2 of the saboteurs flipped and told the FBI about their plans. They were spared and sentenced to prison terms. The others were executed.
https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/nazi-saboteurs-and-george-dasch
LA Blue Bengal
(47 posts)oil tankers in the Gulf of Mexico. My hometown in south Louisiana had an airbase for blimps that were used to spot u-boats near the coast.
Aristus
(71,453 posts)missions, bribes, supplies, and so on. Two of the Germans instead took large amounts of the cash and hit the big cities to party. Flashing wads of cash and speaking in German accents drew the wrong kinds of attention, and they got caught.
TnDem
(1,390 posts)He lived up until the 1990's
lucca18
(1,438 posts)Thank You
CloudWatcher
(2,127 posts)Wasn't it just grand when we could honestly wonder about how evil or naive and stupid the German people were in the 1930s, safe in the knowledge that it couldn't ever happen here?
Btw the book is "Steel Boat Iron Hearts: A U-boat Crewman's Life Aboard U-505". Available from Amazon, but screw Amazon. Here's a link to Barnes and Noble:
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/steel-boats-iron-hearts-hans-goebeler/1117446939
soldierant
(9,223 posts)One of the propaganda films made then, called "Don't be a sucker," made that pellucidly clear (apologies to Malaise). Of course, it took us until 1943 or 1945 or 1947 - different sources cite different dates - so it wa' too little too late. Several copies on YouTube now, and despite the limitations of the technology of the day, still worth a watch
I didn't watch tehem al, but this one is pretty solid.
aggiesal
(10,494 posts)It was a staple for school field trip every year until 6th grade.
Aside from the U-Boat, my favorites were
- The Whisper Gallery, an oval parabola with a stand at the Focus at both ends approximately 43 feet apart. Standing in the Focus, when you whisper into the parabola, the person standing at the other focus 43 feet away, it sounds like the speakers were on too loud.
https://www.msichicago.org/explore/whats-here/exhibits/whispering-gallery
- The Tix-Tac-Toe board, trying to beat the computer. It wasn't a robot back then, just a computer screen.
https://www.msichicago.org/explore/whats-here/exhibits/robot-revolution
- Foucault's Pendulum Clock, when you climb the stairs to the top, was really cool looking down.
https://collections.msichicago.org/collections/10462
- During the Winter the Christmas Trees of the World.
https://www.msichicago.org/press/press-releases/100-days-to-catw
Thank you for sharing your book & experience.
Martin Eden
(15,256 posts)My father served in the Pacific theater in WW2. I was born in 1957, a lifelong Chicagoland resident (except when I attended Southern Illinois University). I'm also familiar with the downtown museum campus (Field, Shedd, Planetarium - all great). If you ever visit our fine city again and have time, I recommend the Chicago History Museum on the north side. It's much smaller, but well worthwhile. What struck me the most are bronze casts of Abraham Lincoln's face & hands from when he was alive, and the bed he died on from the boarding house across the street from Ford's Theater.
In the Museum of Science & Industry you visited, the exhibit that struck an emotional chord with me had handwritten notes from Gregory Peck when he was filming To Kill a Mockingbird. There are some scenes in that movie which always bring tears, no matter how many times I've seen it.
Figarosmom
(9,395 posts)Last edited Wed Aug 13, 2025, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)
3rd grade to 12th grade we made field trips to the Museum of Science and Industry. I also dated there msny times and had old time pictures in sepia taken of me snd my date in the old car section. I couldn't wait to go every year.
Also went to the Art Museum( The Art Institute of Chicago) with my art classes every year and did go to school there for a few years.
Shedd Museum and the Field Museum we used to visit every year as adults with our daughter and my sister.
Living close to them was a real plus growing up.
Martin Eden
(15,256 posts)My school awarded the classes to a few kids based on proficiency in art. This was 1969 & 1971.
My school (K-8) was in the small unincorporated neighborhood of Central Stickney, between I-55 & Midway Airport. Back then, a parent didn't worry about their kid getting on a CTA bus by himself, taking the Archer Ave bus downtown.
Uncle Joe
(63,930 posts)World War II and the Holocaust; which wasn't the first genocide were the inspirations for the Geneva Conventions, "never again" and all that stuff.
Thanks for the thread Coventina
Coventina
(29,044 posts)Hogan is constantly harassing Col. Klink about the Geneva Conventions in the show.
How did they not know that at the time of filming?
Oh well.......
I grew up watching reruns of HH as a kid, it was my favorite show.
Uncle Joe
(63,930 posts)I loved watching Hogan's Heroes as well.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)1. Col. Klink is gay, and has a massive crush on Hogan that makes him so helpless against Hogan's charms and manipulations. Hogan knows this and has this secret in his back pocket to blackmail Klink if necessary (but he doesn't want to). In my world, the pickelhaube Klink has on his desk is from his dead lover from WWI, which is why Klink is so protective of it. (yeah, I'm one of "those" women). In the backstory, Klink and his lover were WWI flying aces, until his lover went down in flames, and Klink never got over it, and is a shell of the man he once was. Yes, I've spent wayyyy to much of my life on this show. But I'm happy with my life choices, haha!
2. General Burkhalter has always hated Hitler and the Nazis and is an inside saboteur. He knows exactly what Hogan is, although he can't acknowledge it. That's why he keeps giving Klink important assignments that he knows Hogan will thwart.
3. Major Hochstetter is a Jew, who infiltrated the Gestapo. He also "somehow" keeps bungling his job as well.
In my fantasy world, everyone is a good guy!
Haha!
ornotna
(11,396 posts)Thanks for writing it.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)Chasstev365
(6,900 posts)Emile
(39,899 posts)Coventina
(29,044 posts)It was magic!
I love aquaria, and hope to visit the Shedd someday!!
dem4decades
(13,496 posts)Dan
(4,915 posts)The Germans had several different Enigma (code) machines. Admiral Gallagher who was in command of the task force that captured that submarine wanted to capture a submarine intact. So he had a special trained group in the task force that were directed to board any U-boat. This was extremely dangerous due to the Germans directive to sink any U-boat that was in danger of being captured. So, everyone that made up the group that went into that U-boat had not a clue whether charges had been set to go off or what.
Anyway, the reason for the silence on the plight of the U-boat was when they captured the sub, it had the latest Enigma machine plus charts and other assorted secret documents that were pertinent to the submarine force. I think (trying to remember) that the Captain of the U-boat was wounded by the airplanes that shot up the sub and thus certain procedures werent followed.
There was (I believe) an Italian that was part of the crew that helped the Americans prevent the sub from sinking and assisted in getting the sub in shape that it could be saved.
Oh as an aside, the U.S. Navy had targeted U-505 for a few weeks planning to capture the submarine.
I hope that I got that right.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)I'm hoping information like yours will be in it.
The tour did talk about how brave the Americans had to be to face possible booby traps, the rapidly sinking sub, and potential ambushes by seamen who had not yet abandoned the ship.
Dan
(4,915 posts)And I had been aware of Admiral Gallagher from some stuff I read years ago about the U-505.
There is a new book that is really interesting reading by Alexander Rose called the "Phantom Fleet" which speaks about the capture of U-505.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)LoisB
(12,163 posts)history to me. I did not know about the captured U-505. I wonder what happened to the captured German seamen? Thank you, Coventina. I am glad you had such a good experience. Welcome back.
Coventina
(29,044 posts)Most of the seamen were repatriated back to Germany after the war, to the surprise and joy of their families.
Some chose to remain in the United States under a post-war program that required their service in the US military for...I'm trying to remember, I think it was 5 years?
But, they were given "time earned" for their POW time, so most did not have to serve the whole 5 years.
************
We have some fun WW2 history here in the Phoenix area.
There was a German POW camp in an area that is now one of our municipal parks.
It is near by the Salt River that runs through Phoenix.
The Germans plotted a daring escape: They saw from local maps that their prison camp was right by a river! They figured if they could build some makeshift rafts and sneak down to the river, they could maybe float to Mexico (which was a neutral country) and from there make their way back to Germany.
Security was pretty lax at the prison camp. Heck, it was in the middle of the desert, where would a bunch of German POWs possibly go?
So, the plan went off without much of a hitch: they were able to build the rafts and sneak down to the river under cover of darkness. When they got to the banks of the Mighty Salt River, they found the downfall of their plan: the river was dry!! The Salt River has been dammed and used for irrigation since the 1800s! But the maps the Germans found left out that little detail, no one in the Phoenix area needed to put on the maps: "oh by the way, this river is dry aside from occasional flash flooding!"
Well, most of the Germans decided it was a lost cause and returned to prison camp. Some hid out in local citrus groves, living off the fruit until they were captured. I think IIRC, one actually made it to Canada, eventually, but the war was over by then.
LoisB
(12,163 posts)Coventina
(29,044 posts)The stuff about the prison outbreak is mostly just an amusing anecdote from the war.
Dave Bowman
(6,448 posts)Blue Owl
(58,059 posts)BoRaGard
(7,591 posts)liberalla
(10,752 posts)This was particularly intriguing.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(10,479 posts)The idea of being trapped in a submarine, especially one that is likely to be attacked, is terrifying! But I love history & museums.